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Trying to wrap my head around Android (Page 13)
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Jawbone54
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Jul 18, 2014, 10:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
For me, I think the biggest difference is in how apps "feel." Most iOS apps that I use are pretty consistent in what's where and how one does various normal things, while many Android apps (free ones so far) are more varied in their user interface, with this selection here and that option there. Not a big deal, really, and something I chalk up to getting used to new apps.
This is my experience as well. I bought the Nexus 7 just so I could familiarize myself with Android. I actually take it with me at times because it fits perfectly in my back pocket. I definitely enjoy using it, but I still wouldn't consider replacing my iOS devices with it full-time. Not yet, at least. Especially with the new Handoff features in Yosemite.
     
starman  (op)
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Jul 18, 2014, 11:46 AM
 
Oh, and can we talk about that hideous Roboto font? Talk about uninspiring.

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Phileas
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Jul 18, 2014, 12:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Yes the iPad Air would be utterly fantastic....if Safari didn't refresh existing pages whenever you have more than one tab opened. Nothing more frustrating that reading a large article, clicking on a given link in it to look at that page, and then going back to find out the page has been refreshed back to the top and you have to scroll down again. Ugh. :/
Do what I do and use Chrome. No issues.
     
Phileas
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Jul 18, 2014, 01:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Android is getting there, and trumps iOS in a few ways, but there's no comparison between the two, aesthetically.
Perhaps we've got different sensibilities, but I disagree wholeheartedly. I use Nova Launcher with a set of L compliant icons - beautiful all round, really, really gorgeous.
None of my Nexus devices stutters either - in fact until I got the iPad Air I was getting frustrated with Apple's offerings. Project Butter made all the stuttering that was such a turn-off for ANdroid go away, but that was what, two years ago?

Anyhow, what I am saying is that we have now access to two usable mobile operating systems. They both have their advantages and disadvantages, but they are getting closer and closer to each other. None of them is terrible, or unusable.
     
subego
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Jul 18, 2014, 01:58 PM
 
I think the point is, with you it's "I use Nova Launcher, and... and..."

We're using iOS. That's it. Stock. All of us.

And it looks good. Really good at times.


Nothing wrong with that, but the fundamental is one takes takes effort, the other doesn't. "I can make Android not look like shit" is pretty faint praise.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jul 18, 2014, 02:44 PM
 
And we're not putting our devices into permanent speed boost mode, either.
     
subego
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Jul 18, 2014, 03:21 PM
 
Any speed problems I have on this hardware I blame on shit code from Apple. Trying to share a photo makes me think I've locked up my phone.

The battery life sucks balls, and I'll shout across the rooftops that Safari is garbage. I've actually needed to completely alter my posting style because of it because there is close to zero chance I can look at another page without Safari needing to reload the MacNN page when I get back and hence wiping out my post.

They also ruined selecting whole paragraphs. That's why I don't quote anymore.

The battery is utter shit, or more accurately, the cellular data code is a ****ing heinous blow-pig and suck-pig.


So, I'm willing to take Apple to task, but I'm going to come to their defense when the question at hand is "which is better looking" or "which has better ways of getting past lock screens and dealing with App Store passwords".
     
mattyb
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Jul 18, 2014, 03:59 PM
 
I never got this argument about icons and how pretty your home screen is. I use apps that look the same on iOS and Android, so what difference does it make about the icons?

Must admit that I haven't recently seen iOS, nobody that I know has one, and those that did have switched to Android - mostly Samsung stuff. Very few of them have rooted (me neither). I don't really understand what I'd gain.
     
subego
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Jul 18, 2014, 04:05 PM
 
The reason I'm good at visual design, my "talent" as it we're, is ugly things make me physically nauseous.

I don't want my main computer, which is my phone, to make me want to hurl.
     
mattyb
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Jul 18, 2014, 04:43 PM
 




Are they really that different?

1st pic chosen from 2 searches : iOS home screen and Nexus 5 home screen.
     
Shaddim
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Jul 18, 2014, 04:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
iPhone
Nope. Even with Apple, there have been long stretches between fixes and updates, including shit that they still haven't fixed.
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mattyb
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Jul 18, 2014, 04:46 PM
 
I should really post this since iOS is (afaik) now using 2D stuff - correct me if I'm wrong

     
Shaddim
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Jul 18, 2014, 04:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I think the point is, with you it's "I use Nova Launcher, and... and..."

We're using iOS. That's it. Stock. All of us.

And it looks good. Really good at times.


Nothing wrong with that, but the fundamental is one takes takes effort, the other doesn't. "I can make Android not look like shit" is pretty faint praise.
iOS: "Looks good, works like crap."

Got my Oneplus One, finally, and it comes with stock CM11 out of the box. The first smartphone with a gorgeous and fully functional OS from the factory.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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mattyb
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Jul 18, 2014, 05:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Got my Oneplus One, finally, and it comes with stock CM11 out of the box. The first smartphone with a gorgeous and fully functional OS from the factory.
Any chance of an invite?
     
subego
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Jul 18, 2014, 05:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
iOS: "Looks good, works like crap."

Got my Oneplus One, finally, and it comes with stock CM11 out of the box. The first smartphone with a gorgeous and fully functional OS from the factory.
Well, I haven't exactly been shy when it comes to slagging Apple.
     
starman  (op)
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Jul 18, 2014, 07:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Nope. Even with Apple, there have been long stretches between fixes and updates, including shit that they still haven't fixed.
A year between releases is a "long stretch"? Please....

It takes almost a year for a new release to reach devices on Android. That's over a year between Android releases AND a year to get on some devices.

No comparison. Don't even try.

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starman  (op)
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Jul 18, 2014, 07:05 PM
 
I don't know what you people are doing that makes your iPhones work so hard. I don't have these mystery Safari issues. Sharing a photo takes hardly any time. Are you all on 3G or something?

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subego
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Jul 18, 2014, 07:18 PM
 
NM.
     
subego
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Jul 18, 2014, 07:21 PM
 
What I do which makes it work so hard is everything.

As I said, it's my main computer for everything that isn't the Adobe Suite.

The problem with sharing a photo isn't network related. It's the amount of time between when you hit the share button and options come up.
     
subego
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Jul 18, 2014, 07:27 PM
 
And I can assure you Safari is constantly reloading pages it should have the memory to keep around. This wasn't a problem in iOS 6.

It's not just my phone either. Same thing happens on my iPad Air.
     
starman  (op)
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Jul 18, 2014, 07:35 PM
 
Well, that never happens to me, so /shrug.

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subego
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Jul 18, 2014, 08:20 PM
 
And it happens to me so much, if I'm writing a post, and need to go to another page to check something, I'd be insane not to copy the entire post into the clipboard before firing up a new page.

Which then ****s the clipboard if I need to copy something from that page into the post. The only workaround is an edit.

Or... as pathetic as this sounds, if I know a post will need a lot of links, I'll write the thing in Mail.

So, I'm honestly happy this doesn't manifest to you, because it sucks shit.
     
turtle777
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Jul 18, 2014, 08:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
And I can assure you Safari is constantly reloading pages it should have the memory to keep around. This wasn't a problem in iOS 6.

It's not just my phone either. Same thing happens on my iPad Air.
Ditto. Switching between two tabs in iOS Safari essentially always refreshes stuff.

This is very annoying. in iOS 6, this was only an issue if you had am older iPhone with too little RAM.

-t
     
turtle777
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Jul 18, 2014, 08:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
I don't know what you people are doing that makes your iPhones work so hard. I don't have these mystery Safari issues. Sharing a photo takes hardly any time. Are you all on 3G or something?
Try this. Load 3 or 4 different pages in multiple tabs. Once the fourth pages has loaded, switch back to #1.

Does it refresh ?

-t
     
turtle777
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Jul 18, 2014, 09:04 PM
 
Ok, just did a test.

I forced quit ALL apps on my iPhone 6.

Then i started Mobile Safari. Now I have NO issues with multiple tabs.

This seems to indicate that memory is still the issue.

-t
     
starman  (op)
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Jul 18, 2014, 09:18 PM
 
No issues here. Either way, so what? It refreshes. I mean, is that the worst of everyone's problems?

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turtle777
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Jul 18, 2014, 09:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
No issues here. Either way, so what? It refreshes. I mean, is that the worst of everyone's problems?
If you have a half finished post, yes, it's a problem.

If you're trying to gather multiple links and combine them in a post, yes, it's a problem.

If you're on a slow network, it's very annoying, because the refresh can take many seconds.

-t
     
subego
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Jul 18, 2014, 09:56 PM
 
Or on a forum which likes to hang on the top banner ad.
     
Jawbone54
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Jul 18, 2014, 11:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
Perhaps we've got different sensibilities, but I disagree wholeheartedly.
I think that's what much of this comes down to, but I also think we're talking about different things.

I use Nova Launcher with a set of L compliant icons - beautiful all round, really, really gorgeous.
None of my Nexus devices stutters either - in fact until I got the iPad Air I was getting frustrated with Apple's offerings. Project Butter made all the stuttering that was such a turn-off for ANdroid go away, but that was what, two years ago?
I've used Nova, among other launchers, and I've used a variety of icon packs. They affect the overall look and feel of the interface, but there are always missing app icons, inconsistencies in quality, and a general lack of cohesion, but that's only applying to the OS animations and the icons.

The inconsistency I speak of is between...well, pretty much everything: the OS looks okay in general, but even Google's apps sometimes look better or worse than others. They've never had a cohesive look and feel (which, again, Material Design will largely fix). The problem is that out of the apps I've downloaded on the Play Store, around 90% of them are absolute garbage. And while iOS has some stinkers as well, the overall quality of apps (and the attention to aesthetics) seems to be significantly higher.

One thing that always bothers me is that Android won't define an icon size or shape. iOS is quite restrictive with their rounded-corner square icons, but it's consistent, and it gives the OS a cohesive look from the moment you unlock the screen. Android's strength is that it allows so much. Androids weakness is that it allows too much.

Anyhow, what I am saying is that we have now access to two usable mobile operating systems. They both have their advantages and disadvantages, but they are getting closer and closer to each other. None of them is terrible, or unusable.
This is good. I want Android to become better. I want it to push iOS in every respect, because that will be better for all of us. I want Microsoft's mobile OS to improve, and I want to see innovations from them.

I readily acknowledge that Android is constantly improving. As an operating system, it's powerful and incredibly flexible. But as a consistent experience, it still lags behind.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
I think the point is, with you it's "I use Nova Launcher, and... and..."

We're using iOS. That's it. Stock. All of us.
Exactly. The "drawback" is that they're telling us what looks good. But then, with Android, we get control of what everything looks like, and we realize that perhaps it's best left in the hands of the experts after all.
     
Shaddim
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Jul 19, 2014, 02:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
A year between releases is a "long stretch"? Please....

It takes almost a year for a new release to reach devices on Android. That's over a year between Android releases AND a year to get on some devices.

No comparison. Don't even try.
Yeah, it is. Stable new releases of Cyanogenmod happen each month for most currently shipping Android devices, along with point releases of vanilla Android on a 4 month cycle, that cover; bug fixes, new features, and optimizations. "Over a year"? Really? Do you even Android at all?

Apple hasn't properly innovated a damned thing with iOS in over 2 years (since ripping off Android notifications).

No comparison. Don't even try.
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Shaddim
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Jul 19, 2014, 02:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
Any chance of an invite?
I had a few but they were gone almost instantly.

Originally Posted by starman View Post
No issues here. Either way, so what? It refreshes. I mean, is that the worst of everyone's problems?
You can't be f***ing serious?
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starman  (op)
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Jul 19, 2014, 02:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Yeah, it is. Stable new releases of Cyanogenmod happen each month for most currently shipping Android devices, along with point releases of vanilla Android on a 4 month cycle, that cover; bug fixes, new features, and optimizations. "Over a year"? Really? Do you even Android at all?

Apple hasn't properly innovated a damned thing with iOS in over 2 years (since ripping off Android notifications).

No comparison. Don't even try.
Really? Not a damn thing?

iBeacon
Siri (came out before GV)
3D views
Airdrop
Airplay
Metal
Find My Phone
Activation Lock
Facetime (where's that on Android?)
Apple CarPlay

But you hang on to your Micro SD card and widgets. Yeah.

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starman  (op)
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Jul 19, 2014, 02:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
You can't be f***ing serious?
Yeah, in eight years of iOS vs. Android, "Safari Refresh Syndrome" is the top of everyone's hate list.

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Shaddim
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Jul 19, 2014, 02:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Really? Not a damn thing?

iBeacon
Siri (came out before GV)
3D views
Airdrop
Airplay
Metal
Find My Phone
Activation Lock
Facetime (where's that on Android?)
Apple CarPlay

But you hang on to your Micro SD card and widgets. Yeah.
Half that shit doesn't work as intended, and the rest is slow, crippled, or only specific to a small portion of devices. The wall in your garden is so high you've forgotten there's anything outside of it.

You want the list of new (and useful) features with 4.1-4.4? Okay, here's ~200.

https://developer.android.com/about/...elly-bean.html
https://developer.android.com/about/...ns/kitkat.html

"Lawl, MicroSD and widgets!" Ahh, the contentment of the blissfully ignorant. Google has made more substantive core OS upgrades with Android in the last 6 months than Apple has made with iOS in 4 years. Know why Apple's market share in tablets has dropped like a stone? Look no further, it's called complacency. The company's desire to lead died with Jobs.

Originally Posted by starman View Post
Yeah, in eight years of iOS vs. Android, "Safari Refresh Syndrome" is the top of everyone's hate list.
There's no reason for it, at all. But you are right, it's just the tip of an ever-growing laundry list of deficiencies.
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starman  (op)
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Jul 19, 2014, 04:00 AM
 
Oh, yes, the "walled garden" BS. Hey, how's that open-sourced Verizon bootloader? Oh, WAIT!

Yeah, Google's open source and all, but you can't effing DO anything with it on something with a locked bootloader. So much for THAT mess.

Oh, and while you're waving your G-peen around, let's take a look at Apple's changes.
https://developer.apple.com/library/...cles/iOS7.html

Burn

If you honestly think Apple's done nothing in four years, you're more ignorant than the trolls on G+.

At least I develop for both platforms. DO YOU? I'm not talking out of my ass.

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Jul 19, 2014, 05:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
iOS: "Looks good, works like crap."

Got my Oneplus One, finally, and it comes with stock CM11 out of the box. The first smartphone with a gorgeous and fully functional OS from the factory.
I just checked it out - looks impressive for the price but is also massive.

Are there any reasonably-sized Android phones that you would recommend?
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Spheric Harlot
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Jul 19, 2014, 06:42 AM
 
I realize I've fanned the flames too, but could we all agree to keep this thread easy and rational for interested, curious discussion? It's in danger of turning into a generic platform slagfest.

Canning the hyperbole would be a great start.
     
Phileas
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Jul 19, 2014, 07:51 AM
 
I thought the Oneplus concept is an interesting one - probably the best current competition to the Nexus line. I also thought the way they handle their initial production ramp-up is clever. Creating a benefit out of lack of availability and at the same time supporting cash flow is a stroke of genius. It remains to be seen if they manage to continue to support their price point.

It's not for me, but that's only because a: I am happy with my phone and b: I don't play these games. I had an early invite that I gave to a teenage cousin. He was most happy.
     
Phileas
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Jul 19, 2014, 08:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
I realize I've fanned the flames too, but could we all agree to keep this thread easy and rational for interested, curious discussion? It's in danger of turning into a generic platform slagfest.

Canning the hyperbole would be a great start.

Good point. Here's what it comes down to for me:

iOS: Looks good itself (mostly), has apps that (mostly) have a consistent user interface and are well designed. Lacks flexibility and can be frustrating to use for users who demand more than basic functionality, as approved by Apple.


Android:
Has some design inconsistencies - mostly due to the fact that it allows greater freedom. The mainstream apps I use are consistent in quality across all devices, but the Play Store does have some stinkers in it that are (mostly) missing in the iOS store.

The reason I prefer Android to iOS (mostly - I bought my iPad for a reason) is that it allows me to get my work done without getting in the way. The design inconsistencies are so minor that they don't get in the way, the iOS restrictions are so major that they do.

I am hoping iOS 8 will fix that.
     
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Jul 19, 2014, 12:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Airdrop
You mean AirDrop.
     
turtle777
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Jul 19, 2014, 12:51 PM
 
Wrong font

-t
     
Shaddim
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Jul 19, 2014, 01:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Oh, yes, the "walled garden" BS. Hey, how's that open-sourced Verizon bootloader? Oh, WAIT!

Yeah, Google's open source and all, but you can't effing DO anything with it on something with a locked bootloader. So much for THAT mess.

Oh, and while you're waving your G-peen around, let's take a look at Apple's changes.
https://developer.apple.com/library/...cles/iOS7.html

Burn

If you honestly think Apple's done nothing in four years, you're more ignorant than the trolls on G+.

At least I develop for both platforms. DO YOU? I'm not talking out of my ass.
Then you just suck at development, because there's hardly a bootloader out there that takes more than 5 minutes to circumvent. Locked BLs are there to keep stupid people from messing with their phones, not to keep knowledgeable people out.

Speaking of ignorant trolls, "lawl, MicroSD and widgets!" "Everything is fine! iOS is great!" ... while over the last 2 years, people leave the platform like rats fleeing a sinking ship, and it won't matter how high Apple builds those walls. Oh Apple has done things in the last 4 years, the wrong things. It's been a case of "too little, too late" since the beginning of 2013, and the only reason they're still powerful is because they have 1/3 of their market cap in cash, and don't spend any of it. "Apple bought Beats!", yeah, that's the financial equivalent of you going out and buying a new pair of shoes. It's called fear, they don't trust their own technology sense anymore. They need to give up the farce of trying to be a technology leader and become the world's largest public hedge fund, because privately, that's all they're doing now.
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Shaddim
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Jul 19, 2014, 01:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
I just checked it out - looks impressive for the price but is also massive.

Are there any reasonably-sized Android phones that you would recommend?
Surprisingly, the Moto X is pretty damned sweet "little" phone, in terms of value. However, the real pint-sized powerhouse is the Sony Xperia Z1 Compact. My wife has tiny hands and she loves hers', it's the phone that made her switch from the iPhone.

Sony Xperia Z1 Compact - Full phone specifications
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starman  (op)
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Jul 20, 2014, 01:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Then you just suck at development, because there's hardly a bootloader out there that takes more than 5 minutes to circumvent. Locked BLs are there to keep stupid people from messing with their phones, not to keep knowledgeable people out.
If it takes 5 minutes, why does it take months for teams of people to break them?

And nice on the ad hominems. At least you know how to do that.

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Shaddim
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Jul 20, 2014, 01:30 AM
 
"Whaa! He's being mean!" Go back and look who started the snark, bud.

"Months?" It's not taken that long in over 2 years. I personally think you haven't even looked at the platform in that time, it fits with what little you know about Android now.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
starman  (op)
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Jul 20, 2014, 03:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
"Whaa! He's being mean!" Go back and look who started the snark, bud.

"Months?" It's not taken that long in over 2 years. I personally think you haven't even looked at the platform in that time, it fits with what little you know about Android now.
Yes, months. When I got my SGS4 it was already out several MONTHS and nobody cracked the Verizon bootloader yet. It wasn't until MONTHS after *THAT* that someone finally did.

And I'm sure I know more about Android than you do, tough guy.

EDIT: If it was so easy, why was there a bounty on it? http://www.droid-life.com/2013/07/19...r-just-8-days/

(Answer: because you don't know what you're talking about)

EDIT2: http://forums.androidcentral.com/sam...4-4-2-yet.html

Ok let me just say this no and no no root no boot loader unlock there may not be an unlock ever
( Last edited by starman; Jul 20, 2014 at 03:46 AM. )

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Spheric Harlot
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Jul 20, 2014, 05:17 AM
 
So there it is again "Android is awesome, if you're on a Nexus, or you've rooted whatever you've bought."

This involves research, considerable risk (yes, it's following instructions, but they have to be the RIGHT instructions, a rooted firmware may not even be available, there is a very real risk of bricking the device, and companies like Samsung, for example, will increment a non-accessible "reset counter" and deny warranty).

Basically, it's really simple: if I have to hack it, it's shit. I need a tool, not a hobby.

I'm perfectly willing to set up and configure the tools I need to make a living, but I'll gladly pay for one that does so out of the box. I realize, of course, that this is exactly where some of you run up against the limitations of iOS.

But as Phileas says, there is real hope that most of these will be fixed come iOS 8.
     
sek929
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Jul 20, 2014, 12:15 PM
 
Androids work just fine out of the box, the idea they 'need' to be rooted in order to function properly is hyperbole.

I find it funny that the usual narrative is the Android fanboys are vitriolic Apple haters, but here on the Mac forum that whole story gets flipped on its head. Android users here calmly state the things they like about Android over iOS and the iOS crowd loses its collective shit that anyone would use something not make by Apple.
     
subego
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Jul 20, 2014, 01:47 PM
 
This seems like a misrepresentation of what's being argued.

The point isn't you need to root an Android to be functional, it's you need to root to be an Apple killer.

Honestly, I'm not informed enough to know if this is true, but it's a far more reasonable argument.
     
Phileas
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Jul 20, 2014, 01:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
So there it is again "Android is awesome, if you're on a Nexus, or you've rooted whatever you've bought."

This involves research, considerable risk (yes, it's following instructions, but they have to be the RIGHT instructions, a rooted firmware may not even be available, there is a very real risk of bricking the device, and companies like Samsung, for example, will increment a non-accessible "reset counter" and deny warranty).

Basically, it's really simple: if I have to hack it, it's shit. I need a tool, not a hobby.

I'm perfectly willing to set up and configure the tools I need to make a living, but I'll gladly pay for one that does so out of the box. I realize, of course, that this is exactly where some of you run up against the limitations of iOS.

But as Phileas says, there is real hope that most of these will be fixed come iOS 8.

Android works just fine out of the box. Even the Samsung flavour, or the HTC flavour, or the LG flavour. For the average user there is zero need to hack anything, to have a good experience. My wife has switched from an iPhone to a Samsung and could not be happier. Amazing screen, great camera, fantastic voice recognition... No rooting required.

If I could install a different launcher onto my iPad, I would. I I could install a different icon pack, I would. If I could install widgets, I would. Not because my iPad is broken, but because it would make my personal experience better, because I would end up with a better tool. Same deal. Much of the tinkering I do in Android is just that, tinkering for fun.

Don't forget, we're all a bunch of geeks who get into these conversations often thinking that the rest of the world cares as much as we do. That's not the case, most people don't care one way or the other.
     
 
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