[OmniX]

I currently have a Ti/500 revA but will be doing a swap with someone (for various reasons) for a Ti/550 rev B, and am wondering if there is any detailed information available, either officially from Apple, or compiled by interested 3rd-party sources, on what exactly are all the changes made from the rev a (400/500) version to the rev. b (550/667) version?

I know the new version has such things like a bit more ram/HD, combo drive, radeon mobility, gigabit ENET, but I'm looking for more detailed items like physical case/construction changes, keyboard layout alterations, bug fixes (like the FireWire controller), etc.

Anyone?

Any info would be much appreciated!

thanks,
omni

[The Dude]

Okay, off the top of my head here are the changes:

USB Internal Modem

"Grill" is on port cover instead of underneath the machine

Two "Apple" or Command keys instead of one Command key and one Enter key (they dropped the second option key and made that the enter key)

The ink that was used for the "PowerBook G4" silkscreen has been improved so it doesn't rub off on the white boarder of the PowerBook when closed

Power adapter is of a newer (and IMO, better) design

Cooling system is different in that the heatsink is completely redesigned


That's all I can think of...as always, if I'm wrong, just gimme a hoot.

[OmniX]

The Dude wrote:
USB Internal Modem

"Grill" is on port cover instead of underneath the machine
=========

thanks for that info. anyone know of any other changes?

also, what was teh rational behind the above two changes-- the USB modem and the 'Grill' (what is the grill?)?

[Podolsky]

Be aware that for certain application areas (like sound and DSP) rev A can be faster than rev B. This is due to differences in CPU bandwidth between 7410 and 7450 chips. Indeed, there are other improvements that offset this but not in all cases. To read all about it check out; http://www.barefeats.com/pb06d.html

[The Dude]

The grill is a small set of cut holes that are meant to have cool air sucked in my the fan. On the old TiBook, the vent was on the undeside of the machine.

Observe here.

On the new TiBook's, the vent is instead on the port cover.

Observe here.

As for the USB modem, it was put there to eliminate the old serial based modem. Probably cheaper and easier to implement too.

[The Dude]

Not meaning to sound like a smartass, but I'd take everything listed at BareFeats with a grain of salt.

It is true that the 7450 (rev.b) is a nicely ramped up version of the 7410 (rev.a). Namely the 4 altivecs in the 7450 compared to the one in the 7410. The slight problem here is that apps must be recomplied to take advantage of the newer three altivecs. No biggie, still get a nice performance boost.

If you were to take both chips, clock them at the same speed, and give them same amount of cache clocked at the same speed, the 7450 would probably relentlessly spank the 7410. Granted, this test will never happen, but the point stands.

One last point worth mentioning about these two chips is the pipelines. The 7410 was the last G4 to use a standard, run of the mill 4 stage pipeline. Same as most G4s and ALL G3s. The 7450 broke this tradition and went with a 7 stage pipeline to increase the clockspeeds. The performance drop is there, but it's hard to notice. Reasn being is, a 7410 can NEVER clock to a speed as high as the 7450 can go. But if you could get them both at the same speed, in CERTAIN tests, the 7410 comes out a little ahead. This is a result of the combination of the larger slower cache and the short pipelines.

[gravy]

Wasn't there also something like the L2 backside cache going down
from 1g to 256somethings. I'm not really a geek I guess.
I don't really know what I'm saying.

[Cellery]

Yeah, the L2 cache went from a lower speed 1MB to a full clockspeed 256kb. The FireWire controller is quite a bit speedier than the first gen TiBooks, and supposedly the AirPort reception was increased a little bit. The battery capacity is 10% higher as well, though this doesn't really mean much, since this machine is also rated at 5 hours. Handling my friend's Ti400 and my Ti667, I say the new ones are also a bit more rigid in terms of structure. Lots of nics small improvements.

[seanyepez]

If you're not going to do gaming or other 3D-intensive tasks on your notebook that would use the RADEON, the 500-megahertz PowerBook will probably be faster.

Granted, your current machine goes through batteries faster and will generate more heat, but the 500-megahertz G4's entire megabyte of cache is better for processor-intensive applications.

Personally, I would take the 550-megahertz PowerBook because of the RADEON and overall build quality. The original Ti didn't have great build quality because Apple's outsources obviously didn't have much experience with the design. Now, many manufacturing quirks have been worked out.

[mrtew]

The biggest change I noticed when I got my new Ti besides the right apple key was that the keyboard is much firmer. I thought the old one was very solid, even though some people complained, but the new one is totally like a rock!!! Oh and OSX runs much faster on it!!!

[pete]

I've had both and was able to compare them side by side (4000mhz and 550mhz).

Differences:

1. Overall build and finish better on new versions. The plastic under the dvd fits the way it should, as does the whole bottom sheet of titanium. In the 500mhz nothing really fit perfectly, there were small gaps everywhere, the LCD was slightly warped (on several units I saw). Now everything seems very well put together.
2. The heatsink inside is totally redesigned and attaches to the PC card module so that heat goes out the PC card slot. Heat seems more evenly distributed on the keyboard. It used to get extremely hot around the powerbutton, now more even.
3. Keyboard does seem to sit better and feel firmer although I think it is pretty much the same keyboard. Maybe the support is better underneath.
4. Adapter totally redesigned and improved: smaller, lighter, square and really cool.
5. Grill in the back more open and bottom grill removed
6. Battery seems to fit better

Overall I think the new powerbooks have been refined considerably. Little things you wouldn't necessarily notice if you hadn't seen the original. That plus better graphics chip, built in cdrw/DVD makes them a better buy in my opinion.

Just some thoughts. Sorry if I repeated what others have said already.

Pete

[ 02-28-2002: Message edited by: pete ]

[Hawkeye_a]

ive owned both, and the difference in gaming is outstanding. ive own both the 400 and 550. the 550 rules for it's price.

[craigthomas]

Has anyone seen improvements in using a larger monitor with rev B? Would the extra 8MB of video memory help a dual monitor setup? I'm also considering moving to the 667 from my 500 (I can get one for $600 less than retail)

[oeyvind]

Rev B's LCD is brighter and shaper IMHO.

[seanyepez]

Originally posted by oeyvind:
<STRONG>Rev B's LCD is brighter and shaper IMHO.</STRONG>

Obviously. The LCD manufacturing process is being improved every day. I think we're finally at a point where running the machine at maximum brightness, even with a plethora of power, isn't necessary.

[Chimpmaster]

"I currently have a Ti/500 revA but will be doing a swap with someone (for various reasons) for a Ti/550 rev B"

Why on earth would anyone want to swap you a rev b for a rev a?

[wataru]

Most of the differences have already been covered, but I don't think anyone mentioned the fact that the new TiBooks are put together with torx screws instead of phillips. Or so I hear, anyway.

And remember that a few things are exclusive to the new-new TiBooks (i.e. with combo drive). The pre-combo drive models did not have the USB modem or torx screws (or combo drives, obviously ). So if you're not buying a brand-new one, then keep that in mind (not that those are very important points).

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com has information about the rev. B TiBook's reduced memory performance.

[seanyepez]

Originally posted by Chimpmaster:
<STRONG>"I currently have a Ti/500 revA but will be doing a swap with someone (for various reasons) for a Ti/550 rev B"

Why on earth would anyone want to swap you a rev b for a rev a?</STRONG>

The 500-megahertz PowerBook G4 has a shorter pipeline. For CPU-intensive processes not related to 3D, the original PowerBook would be faster.

There might be some money involved. Don't read into the situation; answer his questions, or don't post at all.

[tonton]

Originally posted by The Dude:
<STRONG>The grill is a small set of cut holes that are meant to have cool air sucked in my the fan. On the old TiBook, the vent was on the undeside of the machine.

Observe here.

On the new TiBook's, the vent is instead on the port cover.

Observe here.</STRONG>

Hogwash. The grill is the same on both models. One set of holes underneath and one inside the port cover (not on it).

The second picture linked above has a reflection on the inside of the port cover. There are no holes on the port cover itself.

[TheGreatButcher]

I had a Ti 500 and now Apple replaced it with a Ti 667 because they couldn't fix the problems I had. Here's what I noticed:

-Hard disk is quieter
-The fan sounds more like a computer than a toy and is slightly quieter
-FireWire performance is improved
-The keyboard definitely feels firmer and less flimsy
-A few minor key changes have been made, ranging from the second apple key to some slight differences in placement of function keys
-The hinges on the keyboard are located more toward the outside
-In Mac OS X the 667 definitely boots a lot faster than the original Ti and overall the computer feels faster - probably more attributed due to the graphics card rather than the 7450 G4
-The power adapter lights up at the socket
-The battery doesn't fall out. On my first Ti the battery would love to give me a surprise by suddenly losing its connection and shutting me down right in the middle of work
-Airport seems to work better. With the previous Ti I had trouble uploading to the base station but now I have no problems

[mrtew]

Originally posted by tonton:
<STRONG>Hogwash. The grill is the same on both models. One set of holes underneath and one inside the port cover (not on it).

The second picture linked above has a reflection on the inside of the port cover. There are no holes on the port cover itself.</STRONG>

Actually you are the one that is wrong about this. I have a new Ti667 and the holes are definitely on the cover and there are no holes at all underneith the computer. Why do you say otherwise? Are you guessing or actually looking at one? (Obviously not!) You can tell that the holes in the photo are not a reflection because the ports would reflect too. (Also the cover is totally non-reflective just like the rest of the Ti, but I can see why you would guess that looking at the photo). What I can't see is why you would guess around and imply that someone who actually knows what he is talking about, doesn't.

[The Dude]

Originally posted by tonton:
<STRONG>

Hogwash. The grill is the same on both models. One set of holes underneath and one inside the port cover (not on it).

The second picture linked above has a reflection on the inside of the port cover. There are no holes on the port cover itself.</STRONG>

Ya, Apple Photoshop'ed it because it was easier than taking a reshoot.

Believe me tonton, the Rev.B's have the grill on the port cover. Proof? Uh...I have one.

Go ahead, ask another Rev.B owner. I dare ya.

[art_director]

That is correct, the port covers DO have the grill. Looking at mine now. Course, that makes typing a bear.

The fit and finish on the rev b Ti's is MUCH improved from the original. That said, I had to exchange my 667 two times. The first had craked RAM clips and the second had a cracked outer casing near the power button. This one has no such issues.

[tooki]

In reality, there are three, not two, revisions of TiBooks.

1. 400/500MHz (Phillips screws, regular modem)
2. 550/667MHz DVD or CDRW (Phillips screws, regular modem)
3. 550/667MHz Combo drive (Torx screws, USB modem)

Go from there.

Originally posted by The Dude:
<STRONG>
Ya, Apple Photoshop'ed it because it was easier than taking a reshoot.
</STRONG>

Do you actually thing Apple photographs these things with camera and film? Umm... no. They're 3D renderings. That's why they are able to have computers flying around, the screens opening on their own, all without anyone touching the machine in the movies. Not to mention that they can have pictures with no shadows in them, which is possible but very difficult to do with a camera.

tooki

[craigthomas]

I'm definately no expert, but I do know that there is a lot you can do with video and digital video. Shadows can be added, glares and backgrounds can be removed. I really doubt that those images are rendered. Especially when there is already a physical product to shoot.

[VValdo]

I'm 99% sure they are rendered. I know that pixar in particular did the ad with the imac jumping around a la "luxor". In fact, I think it was directed by John Lasseter, director of Toy Story & Toy Story 2.

W

[tweetymac]

Originally posted by tooki:
<STRONG>In reality, there are three, not two, revisions of TiBooks.

1. 400/500MHz (Phillips screws, regular modem)
2. 550/667MHz DVD or CDRW (Phillips screws, regular modem)
3. 550/667MHz Combo drive (Torx screws, USB modem)

Go from there.

tooki</STRONG>

Hmmm - just checked my DVD only 667 Ti and it's definitely assembled using Torx screws. Don't know about the modem tho - never used it yet

As for the grill - this Ti has grill apertures on the backside only, including the fold-down flap to allow for air circulation. No grills or air venting whatsoever on the bottom of the Ti.

Cheers!

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by VValdo:
<STRONG>I'm 99% sure they are rendered. I know that pixar in particular did the ad with the imac jumping around a la "luxor".</STRONG>

FWIW, those weren't actual ads, so you can't really figure from there.

(and it's Luxo, Jr. )

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by seanyepez:
<STRONG>Don't read into the situation; answer his questions, or don't post at all.</STRONG>

What kind of a jerk-stance is that? If the original poster doesn't want to explain, he won't. What's it to you?

Don't ****ing police the thread; answer questions, or don't post at all.
Unless you happen to be curious about something that might be related to the subject?

sheesh.

[Chimpmaster]

Seanyepez - it was a reasonable question.

I seriously am/was interested to know why someone would want to do it, especially considering that the reasons given in this thread prior to then did not at all substantiate a change to the older machine.

You should be careful before criticising peoples posts; in this case you had no right to say what you said.

[mrtew]

Originally posted by craigthomas:
<STRONG>I'm definately no expert, but I do know that there is a lot you can do with video and digital video. Shadows can be added, glares and backgrounds can be removed. I really doubt that those images are rendered. Especially when there is already a physical product to shoot.</STRONG>

Actually before there was a physical product to shoot there was a digital model suitable for rendering the ads. In fact I work in the 3-D design industry and I'm pretty sure that there were dozens if not hundreds of renderings and clips made of the computers long before the final design was chosen let alone before the physical product was ready to shoot. To me the pix on the Apple website look like photos, but even I can be fooled after 8 hours of staring at the tube everyday!