[pra9ab0y]

Has to be the Xbox 360 for me as I have not used any of the other ones. In fact they are not even out in the UK yet!

[Eug]

Microsoft insider confirms DTS output for the Xbox 360 HD DVD is on its way.

"Just a quick FYI that we are looking at this problem. I don't have an update on it because I was on vacation for a while. But for now, wanted to let you know that we are finalizing our DTS encoder which once done, should produce the same experience as the Toshiba player which everyone was happy with...."

For those of you unaware, right now all HD DVD audio tracks are re-encoded to Dolby Digital 5.1 for output from the Xbox 360. This DTS option would simply change the output to 1.5 Mbps DTS for all tracks. This would likely solve the flat-sounding-audio issue that some have complained about. (I have a Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD player with DTS output, and it sounds fuller.)

[Dark Helmet]

I saw the HD-DVD drive in a store this weekend. They had about 3 on the shelf and the box was much smaller than I thought i would be.

Still don't want it though but the price is good if you have an Xbox already and want HD movies.

[mdc]

I saw them at Target today. Contemplated getting one.

I did buy the Zelda collector's box with sword and shield though

[starman]

I got one. It was completely impulsive. It came with King Kong. I did NOT yet hook it up to my 360. I was more curious about getting it working on my PC. Unfortunately, the Toshiba drivers don't work on my x64 version of Windows, so now I have to install all the stuff on my older 32-bit PC and hope it's fast enough to play HD movies.

If it works, I have a serious problem. The HTPC I use doesn't play HD content fast enough. It's a 2GHz PC which plays back HD videos with bad stuttering. My newer x64 3.6GHz PC plays them fine, which means that _IF_ this works, I'll have to buy a new HTPC, but the upside is maybe I can get rid of the Toshiba HD-DVD player I got.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by mdc 

I did buy the Zelda collector's box with sword and shield though

Heheh. So did I. I like Master Replicas stuff and when I heard they were doing a Zelda sword/shield set I ran out and got it. Haven't opened it yet, as it's going to be a Christmas present from my wife to me...

[smacintush]

Well, I got a 360. Paid $340 for it and got Gears of War and Call of Duty 3 for $35 each. I think I did alright considering that since my wife manages the electronics dept. at the store I got it from I can exchange it for the new .65 nm units with the (rumored) integrated HD-DVD next year.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

I can exchange it for the new .65 nm units with the (rumored) integrated HD-DVD next year.

What rumors? I am more interested in the power bar being smaller and the unit more quite.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

What rumors? I am more interested in the power bar being smaller and the unit more quite.

The rumor that when the .65 nm process 360's ship next year they will also have integrated HD-DVD for the same price, instead of doing a price reduction on the units.

At least I thought it was a rumor, or is it confirmed?

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

The rumor that when the .65 nm process 360's ship next year they will also have integrated HD-DVD for the same price, instead of doing a price reduction on the units.

At least I thought it was a rumor, or is it confirmed?

It's just people with a wishlist, but there definitely is no evidence that HD DVD will be included. In fact, MS has specifically stated the exact opposite on more than one occasion.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker 

It's just people with a wishlist, but there definitely is no evidence that HD DVD will be included. In fact, MS has specifically stated the exact opposite on more than one occasion.

Well, yeah I know how rumors are, but it would make sense to compete with the PS3's Blue-ray capability.

Edit:

I found this Albert Penello quote from an article dated this month:

We were curious if Microsoft was considering releasing a redesigned Xbox 360 that included an integrated HD DVD drive. Penello spoke carefully: "anything's possible...maybe if HD-DVD takes off," he offered. But does that mean that Microsoft is strongly considering such a move? "Is [integrating the HD DVD drive] technically feasible? Yeah, sure," Penello said.

I'm not trying to argue that I believe that it's going to happen, I just think it's plausible. The idea that it would be at the same price seems pretty delusional though. I could see it for an additional $100 or something.

As soon as they can get the HD drive at the same price point as the built-in DVD drive, I could see them doing it.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by screamingFit 

As soon as they can get the HD drive at the same price point as the built-in DVD drive, I could see them doing it.

That could easily take 2 years so by then the HD disk war could be neck deep or over.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

That could easily take 2 years so by then the HD disk war could be neck deep or over.

Well, other than their HD player, what type of investment does Microsoft have in HDDVD technology being the winner over Blu-Ray? I couldn't see them taking a huge loss on each machine just to have a built in HDDVD drive other than to give Sony a bother.

I would rather they wait until the war is sorted out and then use whichever format wins. I'd be pissed as anything to buy the HD player, invest in movies and then reinvest everything to Blu-Ray when (if) it wins.

Considering the next MS console will be coming out at about the time it is predicted the format war to be settled, I think they'll wait till then to package in a new format drive.

[Dark Helmet]

I have the feeling the XBOX 3 and playstation 4 probably won't even use disks at all and most likely be all downloads.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I have the feeling the XBOX 3 and playstation 4 probably won't even use disks at all and most likely be all downloads.

Yeah future is all download. Then Bluray or HDDVD won't matter. What a waste of time.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

Yeah future is all download. Then Bluray or HDDVD won't matter. What a waste of time.

Yep. But 5 years is a long time. Even then we are going to need some leaps in storage and much faster internet for everyone.

[mdc]

Hopefully it'll be faster downloads than microsoft's movie downloads

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I have the feeling the XBOX 3 and playstation 4 probably won't even use disks at all and most likely be all downloads.

I highly doubt that.

[starman]

I do too. It would put a lot of stores out of business.

[Dakar²]

Yeah, its at least two generations away. We've only just started movie downloads, and they're slow, and alot smaller than games.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

Yeah, its at least two generations away. We've only just started movie downloads, and they're slow, and alot smaller than games.

It probably wont happen until we see a major increase of fiber to the curb installs, at least here in the US. Going download only would eliminate a HUGE portion of the population from buying their consoles.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Going download only would eliminate a HUGE portion of the population from buying their consoles.

I can't help but think that the pricing of next-gen systems has already done that.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I can't help but think that the pricing of next-gen systems has already done that.

Heh. So true.

The Wii is priced for the parental gift giver, but the Xbox 360 gets a touch expensive for that (although it still sells reasonably well). And the PS3 is on a whole other pricing level.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by starman 

I do too. It would put a lot of stores out of business.

That would actually be better for Sony as they make more money from digital downloads and you can get them faster.

[Dark Helmet]

Well this solves my major remaining worry over the PS3 (other than finding one for sale).

Sound And Vision Magazine - Shootout: 3 Blu-ray Disc Players


So the PS2 was a **** DVD player but the PS3 is an outstanding Blu-ray player and half the cost of stand alone players. I'm happy.

"BOTTOM LINE With its crisp 1080p Blu-ray Disc playback, flexible, wide-ranging audio options, and mounds of other network and gaming features, the Sony PlayStation 3 is nothing short of awesome. From my perspective, the only reason someone would buy a standalone Blu-ray player instead of a PS3 is a complete aversion to videogames — either that, or the desire for a more traditional A/V form factor (that also includes upconversion of standard-def DVDs). That said, Sony's PS3 game console is one of the most exciting, well-executed home theater products I've laid my hands on in a long time. Good luck finding one!

"Getting back to our trio of Blu-ray Disc players, my personal favorite was the PlayStation 3. This machine's picture and sound quality were nothing short of stunning, and its HDMI 1.3 connection and built-in Dolby TrueHD decoding give it a layer of future-proofing that the other players currently lack. I also appreciated its multichannel Super Audio CD playback and 60-GB hard disk for storing compressed music files"

[ort888]

I don't have time to read the article right now, but did they address how you can't use it with any standard universal remote? What about how it can't upscale regular DVDs.

Both of those are real deal breakers for me.

[icruise]

Yeah, they mentioned it. I don't have a universal remote and I plan to keep my regular DVD player for regular DVDs (no sense in wearing out the PS3 by using it for something that a much cheaper device can handle).

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by ort888 

I don't have time to read the article right now, but did they address how you can't use it with any standard universal remote? What about how it can't upscale regular DVDs.

Both of those are real deal breakers for me.

The remote thing sucks but I don't mind having a separate remote just for movie playback.

Upscaling is an issue also but I have an amazing DVD with upscaling and it still doesn't make that big a difference.

Plus most HD TV's upscale everything anyway.

[ort888]

I'm not buying the 360 HD-DVD because it doesn't upscale.

As for the PS3... I went out and bought a $130 universal super-remote to get the convenience of not having to juggling remotes and the thought of buying a device that doesn't work with it doesn't sit right with me. It's a big deal to me.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by ort888 

As for the PS3... I went out and bought a $130 universal super-remote to get the convenience of not having to juggling remotes and the thought of buying a device that doesn't work with it doesn't sit right with me. It's a big deal to me.

Ok well you have these options then:

Buy a PS3 and $30 Bluetooth remote
Spend $1200 on a blu-ray player with IR
Wait however long it takes for Blu-ray player prices to fall to the level of the PS3
Skip this generation.

For me I have a $180 universal remote and $200 upscaling DVD player. I am not skipping the PS3 because the odd time I want to skip a chapter or rewind I have to use the controller or another remote.

As for the upscaling I can either keep the DVD player or lose it.

What TV do you have and how is it connected to your DVD player?

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by ort888 

I'm not buying the 360 HD-DVD because it doesn't upscale.

Yes it does, but only over VGA.

BTW, you don't need the HD DVD drive at all to upscale on the Xbox 360. All you need is the VGA cable.

As for the PS3... I went out and bought a $130 universal super-remote to get the convenience of not having to juggling remotes and the thought of buying a device that doesn't work with it doesn't sit right with me. It's a big deal to me.

Same here. OTOH, apparently there is partial IR support if you use the PS2 IR receiver. If Sony could release an IR receiver and update the firmware to support universal remotes, that would make a lot of people very happy.

Personally, I think it's dumb that they didn't make this a requirement right off the bat. I hate having a bazillion remotes.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

That would actually be better for Sony as they make more money from digital downloads and you can get them faster.

25 GB a game in 2006 will still be a huge amount to download in 2011.

Originally Posted by ort888 

I'm not buying the 360 HD-DVD because it doesn't upscale.

As for the PS3... I went out and bought a $130 universal super-remote to get the convenience of not having to juggling remotes and the thought of buying a device that doesn't work with it doesn't sit right with me. It's a big deal to me.

Well, it does - over VGA only. From my understanding, you can only upscale over HDMI or VGA - no component.

To me, a $30 investment in a cable to upscale my extensive DVD collection was worth so much than an HD player to play 4 HD movies I'd actually want to see (that I already own on DVD).

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker 

25 GB a game in 2006 will still be a huge amount to download in 2011.

I might be old-fashioned, but I can't see me buying a game that I don't physically own.

(Yeah, yeah - with DMCA I don't really own anything, anyway, but you get my drift.)

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker 

Same here. OTOH, apparently there is partial IR support if you use the PS2 IR receiver. If Sony could release an IR receiver and update the firmware to support universal remotes, that would make a lot of people very happy.

I was under the impression that the PS3 couldn't use PS2 controllers at all (and the IR receiver plugs into the controller jack, does it not?)

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by screamingFit 

I might be old-fashioned, but I can't see me buying a game that I don't physically own.

(Yeah, yeah - with DMCA I don't really own anything, anyway, but you get my drift.)

Xbox live and the iTunes store show that most people don't care.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by screamingFit 

I might be old-fashioned, but I can't see me buying a game that I don't physically own.

I'm with you on that one.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by screamingFit 

I might be old-fashioned, but I can't see me buying a game that I don't physically own.

Isn't that the whole idea behind the Virtual Console and Xbox Live Arcade, though? And shareware computer games?

[icruise]

I personally think that the benefits of downloading games are far outweighed by the disadvantages, the biggest of which is that there is no way to sell the game when you are done with it. I'm also reluctant to buy something that is so expensive that has no physical backup, and it makes it inordinately difficult to move content from one system to another, or to lend a game to a friend. Also, you can't take advantage of store clearances if there are no physical products to sell and you won't be able to rent games from Blockbuster or places like Gamefly (although this might be overcome by having expiring downloads available for a reduced price). And of course, as has already been mentioned, it would hurt a lot of stores, as well.

Eventually I could see it happening, but for the foreseeable future I'd rather stick to the physical disc. I have downloaded some Xbox Live games, but they are very cheap and I'm still not entirely comfortable with the idea.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I was under the impression that the PS3 couldn't use PS2 controllers at all (and the IR receiver plugs into the controller jack, does it not?)

You can get a PS2 port to USB adapter.

I'm not sure if the PS2 controller itself actually works, but the IR attachment works partially, albeit apparently just for movies and not in the main menu. ie. There's hope yet for IR on the PS3.

Sony could have easily implemented an IR add-on for the PS3 right off the bat, but for some strange reason, they chose not to.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I'm also reluctant to buy something that is so expensive that has no physical backup

How do you back up your current games?

[icruise]

I don't need to -- they come on discs... Discs that don't crash like hard drives are prone to. I don't like the idea of my entire game collection being taken out by a hard disk crash. Even if you can redownload them (something that would be a necessity for a service like this to work), it's a big pain.

[Dark Helmet]

It has pro's and cons.

Plus:

Cheaper: You don't have to pay for packaging, shipping, store markup.

Faster: When games go GM you can have them that night instead of waiting a month for the disks to get pressed and ship to stores

They don't sell out

You don't have to call around or go to a store. Sometimes I can download 25 gigs on todays connections over the time and trouble it took to find Zelda in a store. Even then perhaps they can come up with game streaming so you can start playing the first levels as the later ones are downloading.

Easily patchable and later versions will just be newer builds.

Cons:
The stuff you guys mentioned.

[icruise]

I'm not at all convinced that downloadable games would be cheaper. iTunes in general isn't that much cheaper than buying CDs (sometimes it is, sometimes it's actually more expensive) and the downloadable movie services seem to be pricing themselves similarly to DVD (dumb move in my opinion). Also remember that while they don't have to pay to make the discs, they do have to pay for bandwidth, and 25GB x several million people is not cheap.

[ort888]

Yeah, I don't know about those pros. I really don't think we'll see them any cheaper, since the actual cost of pressing and shipping a game is tiny in comparison to the amount spent to develop and market it.

As far as the games getting to us faster, we still won't get a benefit from that. We'll get a release date and then the game will come out on that date. It doesn't really change anything from our perspective.

Also, I guarantee you I could drive to the store and buy a game before I could download a 7 or 8 gig file. I could go to 10 different stores in that time actually.

I've had practically no problems getting a game since the late 90s. I've never seen one sell out or be hard to find on launch day.

The real benefit to me would be convenience. Especially if they can offer downloadable games on a portable. I would love for the next gameboy or PSP to be able to store all of it's games internally, so you could have your entire library in your pocket. That would be great.

[goMac]

I buy games online (Steam, Gametap, etc), and for me, the only thing that makes me want to own it on media is when I can't download it again. Steam downloads my games again for me on whatever machine I install Steam on, so I'm a fan of Steam.

That said, game downloads even today are slloooww. Steam tries to help by "streaming" you the game.

Cheaper to download than to purchase? Have you seen how much Lumines Live is??

I got my first real distaste for online games/activation with Half-Life 2. I had the media but couldn't play it because the Steam server was down. So the disc sat there for two days before the server was fixed.

The "try before you buy" demo idea is brilliant and crappy little 45MB XBLA games are cool, too. A 7GB or more game? No thanks. And, the idea of brick and mortar places going under without product to sell or buy is in a universe I want no part of.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by screamingFit 

Cheaper to download than to purchase? Have you seen how much Lumines Live is??

That is because with the current model they are competing with games in stores. They don't want to undercut the disk sales.

Also the whole pricing plan needs to be rethought when everything is downloads.

[ort888]

This is a little out of left field, but I want to ask a quick question of the multi-console gamers in here.

Have you ever noticed a noticeable system-wide difference in controller responsiveness and play control between the PS2, Xbox and Gamecube?

[icruise]

I haven't noticed anything like that, but there are certainly differences in the layout of the controllers that make some better for some types of games and not as good for others. But responsiveness? No.