Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

turtle777 · Apr 9, 2008, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

I'm surprised to hear so much praise heaped on Outlook from a guy who writes Microsoft with a dollar sign.

Can you believe it ?

IBM managed the unpossible.

And in case some of you have never seen LN in action, I tell you, I'm NOT exaggerating. Imagine the worst, double that, and then some.

-t

pcryan5 · Apr 9, 2008, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

IBM uses Lotus notes internally.

Right along side TopView and Lotus Magellan I assume?

JoshuaZ · Apr 10, 2008, 10:30 AM

Wow. Email. I wish I had email.

My school district doesn't use email (city of around 400,000 people. 70 Elementary schools, 40 junior highs.). They HAVE it, they just don't use it. I get faxes from my schools to the main office daily. Faxes. In 2008. Faxes sent to a fax machine at my office which is broken about 1/3rd of the time.

I asked my boss about getting email set up for myself and the other 12 English teacher in my office. His reply, in what was a very typical Japanese answer, was "Hmm... maybe the teachers at the school don't know how to use email, so we can't use it."

So next time you think of Japan as a high tech super cool society populated by cute blue haired girls, think again.

Dakar the Fourth · Apr 10, 2008, 10:41 AM

I'm glad they haven't considered teaching the teachers how to use email. Oh the irony.

Also, 'maybe'. How definitive.

turtle777 · Apr 10, 2008, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ

Wow. Email. I wish I had email.

My school district doesn't use email (city of around 400,000 people. 70 Elementary schools, 40 junior highs.). They HAVE it, they just don't use it. I get faxes from my schools to the main office daily. Faxes. In 2008. Faxes sent to a fax machine at my office which is broken about 1/3rd of the time.

I asked my boss about getting email set up for myself and the other 12 English teacher in my office. His reply, in what was a very typical Japanese answer, was "Hmm... maybe the teachers at the school don't know how to use email, so we can't use it."

So next time you think of Japan as a high tech super cool society populated by cute blue haired girls, think again.

Japan ? I'm not shocked. It's the last bastion of faxes.

-t

analogika · Apr 10, 2008, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth

I'm glad they haven't considered teaching the teachers how to use email. Oh the irony.

Also, 'maybe'. How definitive.

It's Japanese for "no ****ing way", without actually risking the other person losing face by having a request denied.

As a foreigner, you have the option of ignoring this courtesy if you find the situation completely unacceptable. You're kitanai anyway, to a degree, so your risk is low...

Powerbook · Apr 10, 2008, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

The company I work for was acquired by another company. Of course, things change. For the worse.
Now they have migrated us from Outlook to Lotus Notes.

Oh WTF, this makes baby Jesus cry.

Hehehe... that sounds like my colleagues after the Daimler Chrysler merger. Only that was like ten years ago.

Regards
PB.

turtle777 · Apr 10, 2008, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

IBM uses Lotus notes internally.

Are you sure that's still the case ?

The son of a colleague of mine started working with IBM. He got Outlook.
~~How f***ed up is that ? They don't even use their own product.~~ IBM is smarter than I thought.

-t

CheesePuff · Apr 10, 2008, 03:04 PM

We use Lotus Notes 6.5 at my work... and my god what a HORRIBLE interface. But apparently the new 8.0 has a completely revamped interface.

turtle777 · Apr 10, 2008, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by CheesePuff

We use Lotus Notes 6.5 at my work... and my god what a HORRIBLE interface. But apparently the new 8.0 has a completely revamped interface.

My company is to cheap to switch to the latest version.

*sigh*

-t

besson3c · Apr 10, 2008, 03:54 PM

Would your company be interested in suggestions for some Groupware alternatives?

turtle777 · Apr 10, 2008, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Would your company be interested in suggestions for some Groupware alternatives?

Only if it's worse than Lotus Notes.

Their current strategy is to piss off people to achieve high attrition. That way, they can reduce staff and don't have to pay severance.

And guys, please no comments like "Well, if you don't like it, why don't you leave it."
My search is well under way.

-t

analogika · Apr 10, 2008, 04:10 PM

I'm sure that a company that has just been purchased and HAS BEEN CONVERTED FROM A BETTER OPTION would be extremely interested in besson3c's consulting offers.

(Edit: sorry, brass)

turtle777 · Apr 10, 2008, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

I'm sure that a company that has just been purchased and HAS BEEN CONVERTED FROM A BETTER OPTION would be extremely interested in brassplayersrock's consulting offers.

One had to put a lot of effort into it to top the suckiness of the world's worst software.

-t

Dakar the Fourth · Apr 10, 2008, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

I'm sure that a company that has just been purchased and HAS BEEN CONVERTED FROM A BETTER OPTION would be extremely interested in brassplayersrock's consulting offers.

I mentally get the two confused a bit myself.

turtle777 · Apr 10, 2008, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Would your company be interested in suggestions for some Groupware alternatives?

Out of curiosity: how would you call your solution ?

Poopware ?
Stoolware ?

-t

turtle777 · Apr 11, 2008, 03:49 PM

So, here is the next "gem".

Lotus Notes doesn't have the capability to actually store sticky notes.
At least, not right out of the box.

WTF is that ? It's called Notes, but it can't handle notes ?

Aaaaaarrrrrgghgghhhhhh

-t

brassplayersrock² · Apr 11, 2008, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

I'm sure that a company that has just been purchased and HAS BEEN CONVERTED FROM A BETTER OPTION would be extremely interested in besson3c's consulting offers.

(Edit: sorry, brass)

huh?

analogika · Apr 12, 2008, 04:08 AM

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock²

huh?

Keep reading...

ghporter · Apr 12, 2008, 08:04 AM

Outlook is clunky and huge, but it IS both functional and easy to use once you learn your way around. It's managed to evolve into its current form through a number of versions. I don't "like" Outlook, but as email and PIM clients go, it's not bad. I like Entourage better, but there are actually things I miss in it that I got used to in Outlook.

Turtle, does your company have an Exchange server, or do they just do SMTP? Since Outlook comes with every copy of Office Pro, (which is really very inexpensive when it's part of a large purchase), I'd think they'd just stick with that. Unless there's something the new CEO "really likes" about Lotus Notes-which I can guarantee would have a major impact on the "financial analysis" done before the changeover. Either way, many third-party (and inexpensive) stand alone clients support both Exchange servers and SMTP, so moving to an ancient app to coordinate a multibillion dollar business just sounds dumb. If this is a sign of the mindset of your corporate overlords, I'll bet it's just the easiest to talk about.

How current is your résumé?

turtle777 · Apr 12, 2008, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

Turtle, does your company have an Exchange server, or do they just do SMTP? Since Outlook comes with every copy of Office Pro, (which is really very inexpensive when it's part of a large purchase), I'd think they'd just stick with that. Unless there's something the new CEO "really likes" about Lotus Notes-which I can guarantee would have a major impact on the "financial analysis" done before the changeover. Either way, many third-party (and inexpensive) stand alone clients support both Exchange servers and SMTP, so moving to an ancient app to coordinate a multibillion dollar business just sounds dumb. If this is a sign of the mindset of your corporate overlords, I'll bet it's just the easiest to talk about.

They are NOT just using std. SMTP, because that wouldn't allow calendaring and
cross-site meeting planning.
You are right, the Outlook client is not costly. The Exchange Server licenses is what the company is hoping to save by switching to Lotus.

The "financial analysis" was done, but single sided. It was only calculated what it would save the company in server license fees, but NOT how much time (= money) the company would lose on lower productivity. Just typical of totally sick and stupid senior management.

Originally Posted by ghporter

How current is your résumé?

Oh, very current, very sharp, and very much out there

-t

besson3c · Apr 15, 2008, 11:44 AM

Exchange does use SMTP for delivering mail and receiving mail from outside of Exchange. I think what you guys mean to say is either MAPI or IMAP, both which are used for accessing mail.