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andi*pandi · Sep 4, 2009, 03:30 PM

I've heard of paranoia, but if Bush were giving a speech to my kid's school I wouldn't pull him out of class that day. I'd think it was a great opportunity for my kid to learn about the President. People are going overboard. The topic of the speech isn't health care, but the basic "stay in school kids" message that every president espouses.

The president of the United States deserves some respect, even if you didn't vote for him, don't you think? Why not send your kid to school, and then ask him how it went over dinner? Why not use it as an opportunity for discussion, instead of treating it like Obama was giving a sex-ed or pro-not-your-religion talk?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/...ols/index.html

What is up with people?

The Final Dakar · Sep 4, 2009, 03:36 PM

It's pretty funny.

TheoCryst · Sep 4, 2009, 03:55 PM

"Ninety percent of Americans who identify with the president's party approve of him, but 85 percent of those who belong to the opposition party disapprove," said Keating Holland, CNN's polling director.

Really, that's just sad at this point.

Chuckit · Sep 4, 2009, 04:39 PM

Meanwhile, I wonder how many of these people would be OK with the teacher leading the kids in prayer.

SpaceMonkey · Sep 4, 2009, 04:42 PM

This is hilarious.

Chongo · Sep 4, 2009, 04:46 PM

The complaints I have heard are not so much about the speech, but the lesson plan created to go along with it. There was no such lesson plan for a similar GHWB's speech in 1991. There were complaints from the left at that time the speech was "pure politics"

hyteckit · Sep 4, 2009, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Meanwhile, I wonder how many of these people would be OK with the teacher leading the kids in prayer.

I guess that would depend on the prayer right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ9To30Hz7A

TheWOAT · Sep 4, 2009, 07:06 PM

GeauxBama!

Wiskedjak · Sep 4, 2009, 10:53 PM

I wonder how many people planning to have their children boycott the speech know anything about it beyond what their talking-head of choice has told them ...

ironknee · Sep 4, 2009, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by Chongo

The complaints I have heard are not so much about the speech, but the lesson plan created to go along with it. There was no such lesson plan for a similar GHWB's speech in 1991. There were complaints from the left at that time the speech was "pure politics"

oh what are the lesson plans? i reckon the kids are forced to do them...

finboy · Sep 4, 2009, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Meanwhile, I wonder how many of these people would be OK with the teacher leading the kids in prayer.

Boo-yah. This is only a non-issue to the acolytes of The New One. The rest of America sees it for what it is -- brainwashing plain and simple.

The race card thing is laughable too. Just plays from the Alinski handbook.

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Sep 4, 2009, 11:07 PM

The administration, while acknowledging it made a mistake with the initial lesson plan...

So what was this initial "lesson plan" and what business is it of the President to be presenting a "lesson plan" to students?

I've got no problem with the President making a speech to students about the usual stuff, but what's this "lesson plan" bit all about?

Sounds to me like more bullcrap from this admin- parents don't want the President giving their kids some lesson plan like it's Fidel Castro in Cuba, and immediately Democrats and the AWOL media label them all "evil right wingers! boo!" and the usual demonizing.

Sorry, but this administration has done a lot of stupid crap already where its clear they don't really know what they're doing, and don't really give a crap about what people want outside of their agenda- so they've earned this level of distrust from many people when they start in with crap like: "Hey, now we have a "lesson plan" for your kids..."

It's not just about people having respect for the President- it's about the fact that he's shown he doesn't have a whole lot of respect for people that disagree with his agenda. Those people therefore have every right to say "No, thanks, I don't really trust your "lesson plan" for my kids. That's what parents and teachers are for, not Presidents."

besson3c · Sep 4, 2009, 11:21 PM

Doesn't brainwashing occur when you are only exposed to one viewpoint and this is repeated over and over again? Exposing kids to opinions that differ from their parents is not brainwashing, but you could make the case that sheltering your kids from these opinions is.

Do you really think kids even care about the usual sorts of classic debates that separate Democrats from Republicans anyway? I sure as hell didn't give a rat's ass about politics until I hit 20.

Chongo · Sep 4, 2009, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by ironknee

oh what are the lesson plans? i reckon the kids are forced to do them...

Letter From Secretary Arne Duncan to School Principals

Wiskedjak · Sep 4, 2009, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by finboy

Boo-yah. This is only a non-issue to the acolytes of The New One. The rest of America sees it for what it is -- brainwashing plain and simple.

The race card thing is laughable too. Just plays from the Alinski handbook.

The funny thing about your post is that I'm not completely certain which side you're taking.

"The New One" = Christ or Obama?
Brainwashing = brainwashing of children by the Republicans (Obama/liberals bad) or by the Democrats (Socialism good)?

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Sep 4, 2009, 11:27 PM

The lesson plans – one plan for pre-K-6 students and another plan for students in grades 7-12 – provided specific activities and assignments for children to do before, during, and after the president’s speech. The pre-k-6 plan instructs teachers to ask children “Why is it important that we listen to the President and other elected officials…” It further directs teachers to have children consider the following while listening to Obama’s speech:

* “What is the President trying to tell me?”
* “What is the President asking me to do?”
* “What new ideas and actions is the President challenging me to think about?”

The plan continues, “Students can record important parts of the speech where the President is asking them to do something. Students might think about: What specific job is he asking me to do…Are we able to do what President Obama is asking of us?”

On Wednesday evening however, the administration edited part of the pre-k-6 lesson plans after public outcry about enlisting children’s participation in political activities. The original lesson plan asked children to “write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president.” It has since been changed to say “Write letters to themselves about how they can achieve their short-term and long-term education goals.”

So they change the focus from how students can waste their time to help the president, to how they can actually help themselves. (The latter presumably actually being the purpose of an education, the former some bullcrap that sounds like something out of Castro's Cuba.)

And the not even subtle bull about "why it's important to listen to politicans and other elected officials. Here's an idea- how about WHY IT'S IMPORTANT THAT POLITICIANS AND OTHER ELECTED OFFICIALS SHOULD LISTEN TO YOU. You know, what they're trying hard NOT to do right now with your parents?

And people wonder why that might anger a few parents who didn't swallow the Obama cool-aid, don't think he's the 2nd coming, and send their kids to school to actually LEARN SOMETHING that will help THEM, not some stuffed suit politician.

Wiskedjak · Sep 4, 2009, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by Chongo

Letter From Secretary Arne Duncan to School Principals

Looking at the attached lesson plans, could someone concerned about this point out where the socialist propaganda is?

besson3c · Sep 4, 2009, 11:39 PM

Wow...

Of course it's a good idea to listen to the president and elected officials so that you can form an opinion about what is going on, and so that you are aware what is going on. Elected officials can mean Republicans and Democrats, and there is no caveat here that says "only if the president is a Democrat". Am I missing something here? From this, you can make your opinions known to elected officials, but isn't being aware of what politicians are saying and doing just plain old common sense?

As far as "helping the president", if you cannot find a *single* issue which you agree with the president on, who is to say that expressing your disagreement and making a good case isn't help? If we are on the wrong track, shining the light on what we are doing wrong is a noble thing to undertake.

It's amazing how utterly predictable it is that Democrats unconditionally agree with their party and Republicans unconditionally agree with theirs. I know that many of you are anxious to respond about how I'm a huge hypocrite and blah blah blah, but honestly, I don't think that many of you have really taken the time to even ask me about what issues I might disagree with the president on, let alone taken the time to understand my point of view. Most of my posts are basically just responding to your rants du jour. Feel free to fire up the hypocrite boilerplate response if you must, I don't really care.

besson3c · Sep 4, 2009, 11:44 PM

The funny thing is that the very disagreement in this thread came about because somebody took the time to listen to what politicians were saying so that they could form an opinion - the very thing that kids shouldn't be doing, I guess?

The fact that there is such lack of willingness to listen to somebody you disagree with I guess explains the normal of this board.

CreepDogg · Sep 4, 2009, 11:54 PM

So what's the problem? People don't think their kids are smart enough to listen to what the President has to say and make up their own minds about it? Heaven forbid they have to formulate their own thoughts...

Bottom line is, if you're not expecting your kids to be able to hear different perspectives and formulate their own views on them, you're doing it wrong. Besides, everything we've heard points to a message about personal responsibility and goal setting, so unless you're teaching your kids to screw it all and live off the government, the message will likely be pretty benign and something you may actually WANT reinforced. Ironic, huh?

ironknee · Sep 5, 2009, 12:06 AM

i reckon i read on the interweb that HD TV has technologies that lets you control minds...

And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country.

andi*pandi · Sep 5, 2009, 07:58 AM

If the lesson plan had said "help the country" instead of "help the president", would that have been a problem? I mean, we do want to raise little patriots, right?

I would argue that as leader of the country the president IS the country, figuratively, but hey...

I think the lesson plan is a good idea. It might add focus to some kids wondering why they have to sit through some boring speech, create some discussion, and foster ideas. Like I said, if Bush's speech had come with a lesson plan I would not have got my tinfoil panties in a bunch and whined about subliminal messages.

Those complaining that the Government should not be putting ideas in their kids heads with a lesson plan should realize that it's a public school, the government is already in charge of curriculum. Duh. If'n ya don't like it time to home school yer kids in th' basement, if'n you want to protect them from diverse ideas and people.

Wiskedjak · Sep 5, 2009, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

If the lesson plan had said "help the country" instead of "help the president", would that have been a problem? I mean, we do want to raise little patriots, right?

I think some people want to ensure that they raise little *Republican* patriots by ensuring that their children aren't exposed to alternative points of view.

Chongo · Sep 5, 2009, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

Looking at the attached lesson plans, could someone concerned about this point out where the socialist propaganda is?

Again, I am going on what I have heard on the news and radio.

The parents concerns about the lesson plan also have to do with the how the teachers will present it. If it is present in a neutral way they have have no issues. If done in a "dear leader" way, big problem.

CreepDogg · Sep 5, 2009, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Chongo

Again, I am going on what I have heard on the news and radio.

The parents concerns about the lesson plan also have to do with the how the teachers will present it. If it is present in a neutral way they have have no issues. If done in a "dear leader" way, big problem.

Based on what I read in the 'lesson plans', as well as common sense, that's up to the teacher. Paranoia is a powerful thing.

sek929 · Sep 5, 2009, 11:17 AM

It's always nice to see partisan parents making their children's decisions for them. Anyone who would willing disallow their child to sit in the same room as one of the most important people in the world is sick in the head.

Wiskedjak · Sep 5, 2009, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Chongo

Again, I am going on what I have heard on the news and radio.

And, you don't see a problem with taking you opinion from someone else? The information is available, even the lesson plans. Take a look at them and decide for yourself if there's any liberal propaganda.

The parents concerns about the lesson plan also have to do with the how the teachers will present it. If it is present in a neutral way they have have no issues. If done in a "dear leader" way, big problem.

In that case, the parents' problem is with the teacher, not the government. If they're concerned with how the teacher will present a speech from the President, then they should be concerned with each and every lesson presented by the teacher. Probably an indication that they should pull their children out of school altogether.

Chuckit · Sep 5, 2009, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by finboy

Boo-yah. This is only a non-issue to the acolytes of The New One. The rest of America sees it for what it is -- brainwashing plain and simple.

The race card thing is laughable too. Just plays from the Alinski handbook.

It seems like a nonissue to me, and the only person I could even remotely be considered an acolyte of is Adriana Lima.

OreoCookie · Sep 5, 2009, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Chongo

Again, I am going on what I have heard on the news and radio.

The parents concerns about the lesson plan also have to do with the how the teachers will present it. If it is present in a neutral way they have have no issues. If done in a "dear leader" way, big problem.

How about thinking for yourself instead of buying into FUD? Meeting the President of the United States is (for most) a once in a lifetime opportunity. And instead of keeping your kids away, how about teaching them how to think for themselves (in case you haven't done that already

)? Gee, you make it sound as if the school had a one-week propaganda internment camp planned.

Chongo · Sep 5, 2009, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

In that case, the parents' problem is with the teacher, not the government. If they're concerned with how the teacher will present a speech from the President, then they should be concerned with each and every lesson presented by the teacher. Probably an indication that they should pull their children out of school altogether.

Thus the home and charter school movement.

Chongo · Sep 5, 2009, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

How about thinking for yourself instead of buying into FUD? Meeting the President of the United States is (for most) a once in a lifetime opportunity. And instead of keeping your kids away, how about teaching them how to think for themselves (in case you haven't done that already

)? Gee, you make it sound as if the school had a one-week propaganda internment camp planned.

In the tinfoil hat world, it's a 12 year propaganda internment camp. (not my opinion)

OreoCookie · Sep 5, 2009, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Chongo

In the tinfoil hat world, it's a 12 year propaganda internment camp. (not my opinion)

4 years Bush 1, 8 years Clinton, 8 years Bush 2, first year Obama: for whom do they make propaganda these days?

Chongo · Sep 5, 2009, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

4 years Bush 1, 8 years Clinton, 8 years Bush 2, first year Obama: for whom do they make propaganda these days?

Karl Marx

Wiskedjak · Sep 5, 2009, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Chongo

In the tinfoil hat world, it's a 12 year propaganda internment camp. (not my opinion)

Sounds not too far off of your opinion ...

ironknee · Sep 5, 2009, 01:37 PM

i heard marx was a nazi

Chongo · Sep 5, 2009, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by ironknee

i heard marx was a nazi

That didn't take long.

They are both collectivists.

Chongo · Sep 5, 2009, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

Sounds not too far off of your opinion ...

About what?

Wiskedjak · Sep 5, 2009, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by Chongo

About what?

About what you said wasn't your opinion. Reread your post.

Originally Posted by Chongo

In the tinfoil hat world, it's a 12 year propaganda internment camp. (not my opinion)

ironknee · Sep 5, 2009, 02:21 PM

if president obama tell children to make friends with each other... is that socialism?

Chongo · Sep 5, 2009, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

About what you said wasn't your opinion. Reread your post.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I don't own a tinfoil hat. I do, however, on occasion, tune into Rollye James et al, after certain events to get their spin on it. I even tuned into Air America when they had a station in Phoenix.

Wiskedjak · Sep 5, 2009, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Chongo

Sorry to disappoint you, but I don't own a tinfoil hat.

Maybe you just can't see it from your angle of view.

hyteckit · Sep 5, 2009, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by ironknee

if president obama tell children to make friends with each other... is that socialism?

No. But when the President teaches the children the importance of sharing, then it crosses the line into socialism.

ironknee · Sep 5, 2009, 04:20 PM

and if president obama tells the children to learn history, will that make them smarter than the wing nuts?

Chongo · Sep 5, 2009, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

Maybe you just can't see it from your angle of view.

I don't have one, but you can you borrow from one from Obama's green job czar, Van Jones.

ironknee · Sep 5, 2009, 08:46 PM

so let me get this straight

the "tea baggers" say don't trust the government "obama lied" (although i'm not sure what he was supposed to have lied about...it's not like he invaded iraq)

van jones may believe in the 911 truth theory where the claim is that 911 was an "inside job" our government did it (cheney/ bush), therefore don't trust the government

is it that van jones doesn't trust the right government?

Chongo · Sep 5, 2009, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by ironknee

so let me get this straight

the "tea baggers" .....

At least there is one person watching MSNBC

ironknee · Sep 5, 2009, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Chongo

That didn't take long.

They are both collectivists.

so how come the commies didn't have banners of hitler next to marx and lenin? and the other way around? and why didn't they unite against the allies?

finally what is obama? a commie or a fascist? think before you answer... if he's a commie, where are all the communes? and would the nazis REALLY have a black guy lead for them? neo nazis have united with the kkk...

please explain what socialism is in your own words please...

ironknee · Sep 5, 2009, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by Chongo

At least there is one person watching MSNBC

i do watch it... so what do they call themselves? the tea party?

anyways you were saying?

Chongo · Sep 5, 2009, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by ironknee

so how come the commies didn't have banners of hitler next to marx and lenin? and the other way around? and why didn't they unite against the allies?

There was that thing called the non aggression pact.
as Dr Charles Rankin AKA Franz Kindler said "Marx wasn't a German, Marx was a Jew." (The Stranger 1946)

finally what is obama? a commie or a fascist? think before you answer... if he's a commie, where are all the communes? and would the nazis REALLY have a black guy lead for them? neo nazis have united with the kkk...

besson3c · Sep 5, 2009, 09:38 PM

Could you tell us in plain English what your point here is Chongo? I'm confused.