[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Dakar

Nevermind that Kate Moss is completely cracked out and obviously has no good judgment anywhere else in her life.

You're saying that like all the chicks in the OP's chosen bar/nightclub won't be cracked out and will have good judgement.

[Dakar]

I'm just saying appearance don't tell the real story.
Reminds me of some picture floating around the web of some sumo quality dude walking hand in hand with some hot rail of a chick.
"How to spot a rich guy"

[krillbee]

The thing about that whole "having the right attitude" thing which bothers me the most, is how it blatently illustrates how shallow those women are who go for that. And when lots of women are this shallow, its a disgrace to the human race.

"Whichever man can change to behave more like the alpha male, is the one who gets the women", that is just disturbing. Its just uncalled for to ask a man to change almost his entire personality just to be more attractive to women. I mean acting like the alpha male does nothing for you in life, except encourage shallow women to like you, and stupid men to respect you more because they think you are the pussy master and ought to be worshipped.

I dont ask women to do anything entirely out of the regimen of normal just so that they are more attractive to me. Being fit and healthy is all I ask, and that serves a higher purpose than getting laid.
But yet there are women who wish men to "act more alpha, be more funny, be more of a leader, more powerful, popular, etc" And they do nothing but make society worse, to ask of those things.

I suppose I am similar to the feminist women who gets sick of men who like "women with implants, because its attractive"

I dont believe in being fake. And if all physically healthy women require some men to be fake, in order to be attracted to them,
then forget women entirely, because I'm not falling for that bullshit.

[Chuckit]

So krillbee, would you want a pimply, fat chick?

[PurpleGiant]

krillbee. Mate. Just take a moment to chill for a bit.

In general, people do not decide who they are attracted to. You are attracted to someone, or you are not. Women are not making a deliberate choice to be attracted to a certain type of man (generally).

What most people here are suggesting for you is ways of 'getting the girl', not keeping her. Generally once you attract someone (however you do it), you can then give them a chance to see the real you.

More important than any advise given here is that if you are always thinking about it too much, then you won't be getting anywhere.

Homer: So, I realized that being with my family is more important than being cool.
Bart: Dad, what you just said was powerfully uncool.
Homer: You know what the song says: "It's hip to be square".
Lisa: That song is so lame.
Homer: So lame that it's... cool?
Bart+Lisa: No.
Marge: Am I cool, kids?
Bart+Lisa: No.
Marge: Good. I'm glad. And that's what makes me cool, not caring, right?
Bart+Lisa: No.
Marge: Well, how the hell do you be cool? I feel like we've tried everything here.
Homer: Wait, Marge. Maybe if you're truly cool, you don't need to be told you're cool.
Bart: Well, sure you do.
Lisa: How else would you know?

[Kr0nos]

Originally Posted by krillbee

The thing about that whole "having the right attitude" thing which bothers me the most, is how it blatently illustrates how shallow those women are who go for that. And when lots of women are this shallow, its a disgrace to the human race.

And you think you can change billions of years of evolution because…???

[krillbee]

Originally Posted by Kr0nos

And you think you can change billions of years of evolution because…???

I cant change that, and it could be that some of this stuff is ingrained in females. But even if that is so, I still don't want anything to do with them. I'd like to find that rare girl that doesnt fall prey to the moronic ways that other women are attracted to men.

And if I cant find that, then forget women entirely, I'll be a virgin, and spend my life doing something that has a purpose, something unrelated to women.

Originally Posted by Chuckit

So krillbee, would you want a pimply, fat chick?

hell no. if she doesnt take care of herself, she aint worth my time either. I want a woman who is healthy and respects her body, like me. If she takes care of her skin, her body, and still doesnt look that attractive (suppose she's skinny but has an ugly face) I will still give her a try, get to know her, see if i become attracted, etc. but if she aint taking care of her health then forget it.

Originally Posted by PurpleGiant

krillbee. Mate. Just take a moment to chill for a bit.

In general, people do not decide who they are attracted to. You are attracted to someone, or you are not. Women are not making a deliberate choice to be attracted to a certain type of man (generally).

What most people here are suggesting for you is ways of 'getting the girl', not keeping her. Generally once you attract someone (however you do it), you can then give them a chance to see the real you.

More important than any advise given here is that if you are always thinking about it too much, then you won't be getting anywhere.

Maybe not who we are attracted to initially, but if we can get past those stupid superficial barriers, and spend a little time getting to know them, maybe that will help us find something attractive underneath.

I am not going to try to change my personality, even if its only to initially attract the girl. If she is foolish enough to only choose from a pool of men who suggest the "alpha male type" then she is not worth my time. I dont care if she woulda actually liked who i was later. If she is that shallow to begin with, then she aint worth it.

[Kevin]

What about Heather Locklear and David Spade?

[Kr0nos]

Originally Posted by krillbee

I'd like to find that rare girl that doesnt fall prey to the moronic ways that other women are attracted to men.

Good luck with that.

It's like saying you want to hit the jackpot in the lottery, and then bitch and moan when you never win anything.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Kr0nos

Good luck with that.

It's like saying you want to hit the jackpot in the lottery without actually buying a ticket.

Fixed.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by krillbee

I dont ask women to do anything entirely out of the regimen of normal just so that they are more attractive to me.

Ummm... You don't ask women to do anything. In fact, you don't even talk to them, hence your creating this thread.

Originally Posted by krillbee

I cant change that, and it could be that some of this stuff is ingrained in females. But even if that is so, I still don't want anything to do with them. I'd like to find that rare girl that doesnt fall prey to the moronic ways that other women are attracted to men.

And if I cant find that, then forget women entirely, I'll be a virgin, and spend my life doing something that has a purpose, something unrelated to women.

Enjoy your life-long virginity, dude.

We told you how to do it. You disregarded our information, believing your own to be better. We'll be expecting your coming out thread real soon.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by PurpleGiant

krillbee. Mate. Just take a moment to chill for a bit.

In general, people do not decide who they are attracted to. You are attracted to someone, or you are not. Women are not making a deliberate choice to be attracted to a certain type of man (generally).

Straight up, PG.

Originally Posted by PurpleGiant

More important than any advise given here is that if you are always thinking about it too much, then you won't be getting anywhere.

I know a guy like this... ...he's almost a carbon copy of Krillbee (attitude wise) and is always thinking about everything too much, over-analysing even the tiniest thing.

To my knowledge he's never actually kissed a chick... ...and he turns 37 this year. It ain't because he's horrendously ugly or anything (he looks like Mitch Pileggi/John Malkovich/Michael Ironside) - it's his attitude.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by krillbee

Maybe not who we are attracted to initially, but if we can get past those stupid superficial barriers, and spend a little time getting to know them, maybe that will help us find something attractive underneath.

You need to try Internet dating.

But I've got news for you... ...even in those "getting to know you without the burden of physical attractiveness" arenas, the alpha male still wins out.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by krillbee

The thing about that whole "having the right attitude" thing which bothers me the most, is how it blatently illustrates how shallow those women are who go for that. And when lots of women are this shallow, its a disgrace to the human race.

"Whichever man can change to behave more like the alpha male, is the one who gets the women", that is just disturbing. Its just uncalled for to ask a man to change almost his entire personality just to be more attractive to women. I mean acting like the alpha male does nothing for you in life, except encourage shallow women to like you, and stupid men to respect you more because they think you are the pussy master and ought to be worshipped.

I dont ask women to do anything entirely out of the regimen of normal just so that they are more attractive to me. Being fit and healthy is all I ask, and that serves a higher purpose than getting laid.
But yet there are women who wish men to "act more alpha, be more funny, be more of a leader, more powerful, popular, etc" And they do nothing but make society worse, to ask of those things.

I suppose I am similar to the feminist women who gets sick of men who like "women with implants, because its attractive"

I dont believe in being fake. And if all physically healthy women require some men to be fake, in order to be attracted to them,
then forget women entirely, because I'm not falling for that bullshit.

You are certaily over thinking this. It's not an "alpha male" thing. It's simply a confidence thing.

I'll have to dig up some pictures and show you the results of my best efforts. I have dated women who look like Jennifer Aniston and Mariah Carrey in my life. (I've dated the not-so-hot ones too but that's because this thing works two ways )The woman I decided to marry is the most attractive to me, and she highly attractive to other people. Before I bought her a ring she always got hit on and guys always tried to pick her up, even if I was in the bar with her. They probably thought, "what's this hot chick doing with this loser?" Every single night, she'd still go home with me, and half the time that was after diffusing a fight the idiot who couldn't beleive she was with me, tried to start. Other guys just don't like other guys to have confidence.

Doofy is preaching the God's honest truth.

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by krillbee

The thing about that whole "having the right attitude" thing which bothers me the most, is how it blatently illustrates how shallow those women are who go for that. And when lots of women are this shallow, its a disgrace to the human race.

Why is it shallow? Confidence is most important when you're getting out there and meeting girls for the first time. The fact that you appear more comfortable makes the girls more comfortable. Once you actually get to know the girl, you can evaluate whether or not she's shallow based on other things. Confidence just gives you a better chance of getting to know her in the first place.

[krillbee]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Fixed.

is that meant to say that im not trying hard enough?

or are you trying to tell me that my chances are just impossible???

Originally Posted by Doofy

Ummm... You don't ask women to do anything. In fact, you don't even talk to them, hence your creating this thread.

wrong, i do talk to them and they are all shallow and blow me off

Enjoy your life-long virginity, dude.

better than stooping down to the level where im doing all sorts of crap that does amount anything except attracting stupid shallow women.

We told you how to do it. You disregarded our information, believing your own to be better. We'll be expecting your coming out thread real soon.

my information wont get me laid, but it will at least keep me as an honest individual and one who doesnt succomb to bullshit.

[krillbee]

Originally Posted by Doofy

I know a guy like this... ...he's almost a carbon copy of Krillbee (attitude wise) and is always thinking about everything too much, over-analysing even the tiniest thing.

To my knowledge he's never actually kissed a chick... ...and he turns 37 this year. It ain't because he's horrendously ugly or anything (he looks like Mitch Pileggi/John Malkovich/Michael Ironside) - it's his attitude.

darn, he's 37 and hasnt ever been kissed? oh my gosh that man is such a failure at life. i mean seriously, he should be ashamed of himself. *sarcasm*

Originally Posted by Doofy

You need to try Internet dating.

But I've got news for you... ...even in those "getting to know you without the burden of physical attractiveness" arenas, the alpha male still wins out.

im not talking about physical attraction, im talking about any shallow surface level attracting. And acting like you are a leader or becoming a leader, just so you can snag chicks is pathetic.

If that man wins out all the time, then women truly are worthless.

Originally Posted by Railroader

You are certaily over thinking this. It's not an "alpha male" thing. It's simply a confidence thing.

I'll have to dig up some pictures and show you the results of my best efforts. I have dated women who look like Jennifer Aniston and Mariah Carrey in my life. (I've dated the not-so-hot ones too but that's because this thing works two ways )The woman I decided to marry is the most attractive to me, and she highly attractive to other people. Before I bought her a ring she always got hit on and guys always tried to pick her up, even if I was in the bar with her. They probably thought, "what's this hot chick doing with this loser?" Every single night, she'd still go home with me, and half the time that was after diffusing a fight the idiot who couldn't beleive she was with me, tried to start. Other guys just don't like other guys to have confidence.

Doofy is preaching the God's honest truth.

Confidence can mean a lot of different things. Taken straight out of the dictionary,
here are some applicable definitions (dictionary.com):

1. Trust or faith in a person or thing.
4. A feeling of assurance, especially of self-assurance
5. The state or quality of being certain: I have every confidence in your ability to succeed.

A woman likes a man with confidence in himself. Which probably means that he is certain in his abilities, to succeed at something. But at what? His career, women, anything?

Women like a man who has confidence because he will be more likely to succeed in different areas.

I like to equate confidence with positive thinking. I feel that as long as I think positively about scenarios and give myself the benefit of the doubt, then that should be all it takes to meet women.

But unfortunately that isnt all it takes.
Women want a man who is confident in his abiliites with women and confident about many other areas of life. Women prefer the leaders, the ones that are "really" in charge, and the most successful and the most confident in themselves. Hence why women like the alpha males.

I analyze this stuff deeply, but that doesnt mean that I am wrong.

And yes, some other men dont like men who have confidence, because they pose a threat. I am not arguing with that point that Doofy made.

The funny thing is I really despise the women that are attracted to that, more than those men who can pull it off. I think the men are fools of course, for succombing to that. But whatever.

[Kevin]

krill you are asking for advice, and now you just want to argue.

Don't take the advice. Move on.

[krillbee]

Originally Posted by Kevin

krill you are asking for advice, and now you just want to argue.

Don't take the advice. Move on.

the direction of this thread has changed. instead of an 'advice thread' this has become a 'discussion thread'

Originally Posted by Stradlater

Why is it shallow? Confidence is most important when you're getting out there and meeting girls for the first time. The fact that you appear more comfortable makes the girls more comfortable. Once you actually get to know the girl, you can evaluate whether or not she's shallow based on other things. Confidence just gives you a better chance of getting to know her in the first place.

If she feels uncomfortable at all if I am speaking to her without confidence, then she shouldnt be around me period (unless she can cope with that discomfort)

I'm alright with speaking to a lot of women, even if I dont feel like my odds of succeeding are good, because I know it takes a lot of tries to get where I need to be.

But I'm not okay with putting on a different face and then taking it off later, just so they can become attracted easier.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by krillbee

the direction of this thread has changed. instead of an 'advice thread' this has become a 'discussion thread'

You asked for advice, we gave it to you. Now you want to argue with us, those that have had luck with women, that we are wrong.

Go do it your way. It's been working so far eh?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by krillbee

darn, he's 37 and hasnt ever been kissed? oh my gosh that man is such a failure at life. i mean seriously, he should be ashamed of himself. *sarcasm*

Yep. That's you in 17 years time. *no sarcasm*

Originally Posted by krillbee

im not talking about physical attraction, im talking about any shallow surface level attracting. And acting like you are a leader or becoming a leader, just so you can snag chicks is pathetic.

I don't act, dude. I just am.

Went to a computer superstore today to grab an all-in-one printer. Hot Chinese chick working there hit on me. Taking her out next week.

Now, that's from simply going to the computer store with the intention of buying a piece of gear - no intention of grabbing any chicks at all. How was your day Krillbee?

Originally Posted by krillbee

A woman likes a man with confidence in himself. Which probably means that he is certain in his abilities, to succeed at something. But at what? His career, women, anything?

Everything.

Originally Posted by krillbee

The funny thing is I really despise the women that are attracted to that (confidence)

You despise all women then.

[Chuckit]

These threads always go the same way. Krillbee asks for advice, people give good advice, he argues with them, I come out feeling like, hey, maybe I'm really not so bad with women in the grander scheme of things.

[Stradlater]

^
so true

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by krillbee

But I'm not okay with putting on a different face and then taking it off later, just so they can become attracted easier.

Dude, this is the point you just don't seem to get: it's not a face, it's not pretense, it is who you are. You get more comfortable in these situations with experience, it's nothing of your stupid alpha male stuff that somehow got stuck in your head. There's just an order for as long as you can compare. If you cannot even compare, there's no order.

That said, lots of people have tried to give you similar advice which you staunchly reject. I cannot speak for others, but I'm a long-term relationship guy. You cannot be in a long-term relationship based on superficiality. I guess some of the other guys who have tried to help you out are as well (I'd let them speak for themselves).

So if you don't want to enter the game, fine. If you don't think that a guy who is 37 years old and has not had the joy of kissing a person he likes, then I even would think you are in deep denial. I don't want to imagine the loneliness.

[Kevin]

I think the help he needs, NN just simply can't give him.

[krillbee]

Originally Posted by Kevin

You asked for advice, we gave it to you. Now you want to argue with us, those that have had luck with women, that we are wrong.

Go do it your way. It's been working so far eh?

at least i havent stooped to any low levels.

im not saying what you guys are doing isnt working, im just saying its messed up.

Originally Posted by Chuckit

These threads always go the same way. Krillbee asks for advice, people give good advice, he argues with them, I come out feeling like, hey, maybe I'm really not so bad with women in the grander scheme of things.

screw you!
the advice I've received is far from good. What they told me would help me score women, but I'm not willing to follow methods that require me to sacrifice the good in me that I have.

Originally Posted by Doofy

Went to a computer superstore today to grab an all-in-one printer. Hot Chinese chick working there hit on me. Taking her out next week.

Now, that's from simply going to the computer store with the intention of buying a piece of gear - no intention of grabbing any chicks at all. How was your day Krillbee?

it was fine. i found other things to do with my time that didnt involve attracting women.

You despise all women then.

no just the ones that require men to have more than a positive and a realistic attitude.

Originally Posted by Kevin

I think the help he needs, NN just simply can't give him.

unfortunately i think you are right, many of the people on here are offering suggestions that a good and honest man shouldnt follow.

[krillbee]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Dude, this is the point you just don't seem to get: it's not a face, it's not pretense, it is who you are. You get more comfortable in these situations with experience, it's nothing of your stupid alpha male stuff that somehow got stuck in your head. There's just an order for as long as you can compare. If you cannot even compare, there's no order.

That said, lots of people have tried to give you similar advice which you staunchly reject. I cannot speak for others, but I'm a long-term relationship guy. You cannot be in a long-term relationship based on superficiality. I guess some of the other guys who have tried to help you out are as well (I'd let them speak for themselves).

So if you don't want to enter the game, fine. If you don't think that a guy who is 37 years old and has not had the joy of kissing a person he likes, then I even would think you are in deep denial. I don't want to imagine the loneliness.

I am all for the idea of getting used to speaking with women and building experience over time, and becoming confident about communicating with women through experience.
I am not alright with a man acting confident as if he is a pro, when he doesnt know, and hasnt had any experience with women. I dont understand the part you are saying about order though.

I believe there are others here that are long term relationship guys as well. I think that is cool, but if you have to have that 'attitude' initially to get her interested, then i think that relationship should be avoided, even if it would have worked out. I'm glad you and me see eye to eye and realize that superficial relationships are messed up.

As for being 37 and kiss-less, your sentences sounded kinda broken, but i think i can make sense of what you were trying to say.
I thought it was important to not be needy, and to not require on others for happiness. I thought you needed to be happy with yourself first before being happy in a relationship. You make it sound as if one should be discouraged if they are 37 and havent kissed a woman.

[Chuckit]

Yeah, only dishonest scoundrels have confidence. Good and honest men despise all women.

Er…wait…

[krillbee]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Yeah, only dishonest scoundrels have confidence. Good and honest men despise all women.

Er…wait…

having confidence i think is fine (if confidence means you aware of your strengths and weakness, but comfortable with who you are), but having the "attitude" does not sound good.

[Kr0nos]

Originally Posted by krillbee

…the advice I've received is far from good. What they told me would help me score women, but I'm not willing to follow methods that require me to sacrifice the good in me that I have.

a) The advice you have gotten here is probably the best you could get anywhere (even if it is 'only' a Mac oriented internet forum)

b) Following these 'methods' would actually require to sacrifice everything that is 'bad' and 'destructive' in you. The littel things that keep you safe, – clinging to the hand that feeds your insecurities.

[krillbee]

Originally Posted by Kr0nos

a) The advice you have gotten here is probably the best you could get anywhere (even if it is 'only' a Mac oriented internet forum)

b) Following these 'methods' would actually require to sacrifice everything that is 'bad' and 'destructive' in you. The littel things that keep you safe, – clinging to the hand that feeds your insecurities.

I am fine with being confident in who I am, my strengths and weaknesses, and approaching women or just being patient and waiting for them to approach me,

I'm not fine in "playing hard to get" or acting like I'm "God's gift to women", just so that I can get her to look at me.


I dont know what these destructive things within me are, that you are talking about. can you clarify?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by krillbee

unfortunately i think you are right, many of the people on here are offering suggestions that a good and honest man shouldnt follow.

Uh no. No one is advocating you do anything dishonest.

I am saying you obviously have issues that need dealt with that we can't help you with.

And there is nothing wrong with that.

EVERYONE has hangups about something or other.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by krillbee

I am all for the idea of getting used to speaking with women and building experience over time, and becoming confident about communicating with women through experience.
I am not alright with a man acting confident as if he is a pro, when he doesnt know, and hasnt had any experience with women. I dont understand the part you are saying about order though.

There you go again, you use words like acting, pro, when this is really not what we are saying at all. You keep bringing back these words for one reason or another when it is the exact opposite what we are saying.

But if you want to keep interpreting `to be confident' as `to act confident', well, then we cannot help you.

(The order comment was about your alpha male obsession.)

Originally Posted by krillbee

I believe there are others here that are long term relationship guys as well. I think that is cool, but if you have to have that 'attitude' initially to get her interested, then i think that relationship should be avoided, even if it would have worked out. I'm glad you and me see eye to eye and realize that superficial relationships are messed up.

I think you are even less clueless about relationships than about approaching women. No relationship based on superficial attraction can work. Not one. But again, you'd like to think that if you are initially attracted to appearances, people will continue to base their relationship on that.

Originally Posted by krillbee

As for being 37 and kiss-less, your sentences sounded kinda broken, but i think i can make sense of what you were trying to say.
I thought it was important to not be needy, and to not require on others for happiness. I thought you needed to be happy with yourself first before being happy in a relationship. You make it sound as if one should be discouraged if they are 37 and havent kissed a woman.

It's not what others think, but do you really, really think that guy is happy with his situation, like the kind of hero you picture him to be? He probably won't have a normal relationship ever in his life, nor will he have a family. Do you really think this is nothing to be upset about?

If you say, you can replace women with something else, then ok, become a monk. I don't mind. But maybe this guy has had other plans and dreams … 

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by krillbee

it was fine. i found other things to do with my time that didnt involve attracting women.

You're missing the point dude. I was doing other things which didn't involve attracting women and attracted them anyways.

Now, if you think I put on an "alpha male act" to go buy a printer, you're way, way off-base.

In fact, what was running through my head at the time was: "that new BMW 3 outside is hideous and this place is full of silver coloured crap - don't people have any taste any more?". Not: "if I act like an alpha male I can get chicks".

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

(on 37-year-old non-kiss guy) It's not what others think, but do you really, really think that guy is happy with his situation, like the kind of hero you picture him to be?

Yep, he's not happy about it at all. I've tried for years to explain things to him and (since I know him in real life) show him things... ...but he has the same "not listening" features that Krillbee is demonstrating.
He's even taken it upon himself to believe that women like "sensitive" men and as such has been attending "sensitivity training" sessions for a couple of years - as far as I can tell this is just a bunch of hippies sitting around on Saturday mornings talking complete crap. I've tried explaining that this ain't gonna work and even gone as far as to start a running "I am a Viking" theme* in order to try to bring out some male traits, but will he listen? Nope.

(* don't ask.)

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by krillbee

at least i havent stooped to any low levels.

What low levels?!? Confidence and high regard for your self esteem are low levels? No, low self esteem and lack of self confidence are low levels.

Originally Posted by krillbee

im not saying what you guys are doing isnt working, im just saying its messed up.

No it's not. We aren't being fake. We are simply confident men who happen to attract women.

Originally Posted by krillbee

screw you!
the advice I've received is far from good. What they told me would help me score women, but I'm not willing to follow methods that require me to sacrifice the good in me that I have.

The advice we gave you would help you in ALL aspects of your life. ALL ASPECTS!!! From job interviews, social networking, finding and keeping a mate, investing, and above all (if you are a Christian) your walk with Christ.

Originally Posted by krillbee

it was fine. i found other things to do with my time that didnt involve attracting women.

He didn't set out to attract women. He just is. He set out to buy computer stuff. He opens the window of opportunity to finding the right women by being able to talk and attract a large majority of them. You don't get it do you?

Originally Posted by krillbee

no just the ones that require men to have more than a positive and a realistic attitude.

That would be 99.9999999% of all women. Why would women require men to have a negative and unrealistic attitude?

Originally Posted by krillbee

unfortunately i think you are right, many of the people on here are offering suggestions that a good and honest man shouldnt follow.

You seriously don't get it. We are wasting our time. Being confident isn't an act. It's a personality trait. It attracts women and helps in all aspects of your life.

[funkboy]

Originally Posted by Railroader

...The woman I decided to marry is the most attractive to me, and she highly attractive to other people. Before I bought her a ring she always got hit on and guys always tried to pick her up, even if I was in the bar with her. They probably thought, "what's this hot chick doing with this loser?" Every single night, she'd still go home with me, and half the time that was after diffusing a fight the idiot who couldn't beleive she was with me, tried to start. Other guys just don't like other guys to have confidence.

I do have a question: when you say confidence, how'd you keep her with you? These guys must have, I assumed, bought her a drink, chatted with her some, maybe brought her out to the dance floor for a song or two? How did you get her to come back - anything? Dancing into her and that other guy? Simply being confident on the side with your drink and hers?

Mainly a question about technique.

I know a girl who is similarly very attractive to other men... but I am unsure how much I should really be sticking on her to be confident, but not be an ass and be hanging onto her every moment.

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by funkboy

I do have a question: when you say confidence, how'd you keep her with you? These guys must have, I assumed, bought her a drink, chatted with her some, maybe brought her out to the dance floor for a song or two? How did you get her to come back - anything? Dancing into her and that other guy? Simply being confident on the side with your drink and hers?

Mainly a question about technique.

I know a girl who is similarly very attractive to other men... but I am unsure how much I should really be sticking on her to be confident, but not be an ass and be hanging onto her every moment.

Confidence is most key for first impressions. This, of course, as a mindset, carries over and on through many things and continually helps. It sounds to me like Railroader had been dating her for awhile when the other hit-ons were coming, and at this point she was probably invested in a deeper relationship and didn't even care to bother with the surface stuff being thrown at her at the moment.

[Stradlater]

As to the proprietor of this thread, clean your ears and swab your eyes. You seem to have a reading comprehension problem. OreoCookie points out a lot of this.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by funkboy

I do have a question: when you say confidence, how'd you keep her with you? These guys must have, I assumed, bought her a drink, chatted with her some, maybe brought her out to the dance floor for a song or two? How did you get her to come back - anything? Dancing into her and that other guy? Simply being confident on the side with your drink and hers?

Mainly a question about technique.

Funny you should ask about the drinks. My wife is a serious light weight when it comes to drinking. Whenever a guy would ask to buy her a drink she'd tell him whatever I was drinking and bring it to me after the waitress delivered it. That would usually let the wind out of the sails of the guy who was trying to hit on here. The thing is, I was usually showing her 95% of my time so guys didn't really have time to sneak in. It was only when I was playing billiards or something else that the guy even had a chance to talk to her. That's when she'd do the drink thing. VERY few guys could take the impact to their ego that they had just bought me a drink. But if they asked her to dance right away she'd go out there with them (NEVER a slow song though). I didn't mind, because it kept her from bugging the hell out of me to get me out there dancing. She kept it clean because she didn't have any desire to make the guy think he was getting anything sexual off her. If he started rubbing on her she'd ask him to follow her off the dance floor and walk right to me and let me know what he was doing. Most guys would follow her right away until they got about 10 feet from me and then conveniently remember they had to go see someone. Only one guy ever heard her tell me what he was doing on the dance floor and he just stood there waiting for my response. I simply looked at him and asked her what she wanted me to do about it. She didn't want to tell me what to do and just wanted me to come up with the solution. I told him he could dance with her but if he touched her again in any way that made her uncomfortable then "we'd talk again and that I didn't want to have to talk to him again about this." He simply walked away.

Oh, and we almost never went to a bar if it was just the two of us. We always went with friends or met up with friends. If it was just the two of us then she got 99.9999% of my time. The other 0.0001% of the time was ordering drinks. Women want to feel like they have all of your attention. No one likes to be ignored.

You have to make her feel like she's the only one you want to talk to no matter where you're at. We even went to a strip club once and I made it clear that I'd rather see her naked then all of the other girls there.

Originally Posted by funkboy

I know a girl who is similarly very attractive to other men... but I am unsure how much I should really be sticking on her to be confident, but not be an ass and be hanging onto her every moment.

Stay away. If she's always looking for something better, eventually she will.

[willed]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

These threads always go the same way. Krillbee asks for advice, people give good advice, he argues with them, I come out feeling like, hey, maybe I'm really not so bad with women in the grander scheme of things.

lol! Yep, I've just basically been dumped today, but reading this thread is cheering me up!

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by willed

lol! Yep, I've just basically been dumped today, but reading this thread is cheering me up!

There's always the rebound. Last ending for me led to a new beginning just a few days later.

[funkboy]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Funny you should ask about the drinks...

Thanks, exactly the sort of stuff I was wondering.

Oh, and we almost never went to a bar if it was just the two of us. We always went with friends or met up with friends. If it was just the two of us then she got 99.9999% of my time. The other 0.0001% of the time was ordering drinks. Women want to feel like they have all of your attention. No one likes to be ignored.

Right, and I was specifically wondering about the friends thing. But it sounds like you are not a dancer... do you get out on the dance floor much at all? Because the girl I have in mind, that's all she wants to do, so it's either be on the floor with her (and not touching her... see below) or be away and not giving 95% of my time. When I type that out, it seems we're just not quite compatible there, so I shouldn't even be worrying my head over it.

Stay away. If she's always looking for something better, eventually she will.

I don't think this girl is always looking for something better, because she is insulted/creeped out whenever *any* guy tries to dance with her in almost any sort of manner, especially if there's practically any sort of physical contact involved. Maybe she's extremely picky, or has had some bad experiences... She complemented me recently after going out to some places on "protecting" her and her friends... I guess by sort of sticking around, being nearby, someone she could go to if some guy was doing bad things. But that seems like friend zone stuff to me...

[krillbee]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

There you go again, you use words like acting, pro, when this is really not what we are saying at all. You keep bringing back these words for one reason or another when it is the exact opposite what we are saying.

But if you want to keep interpreting `to be confident' as `to act confident', well, then we cannot help you.

no i dont want to interpret confidence always as "acting confident". I just thought thats what some of you meant, in this thread. (that you wanted me to act more confident). Maybe i read things the wrong way.

I think you are even less clueless about relationships than about approaching women. No relationship based on superficial attraction can work. Not one. But again, you'd like to think that if you are initially attracted to appearances, people will continue to base their relationship on that.

All I am saying is simply that I would rather that appearances (of coming accross as confident), would not be only way to get your foot in the door. Becuase some men are confident, but dont look like it.

It's not what others think, but do you really, really think that guy is happy with his situation, like the kind of hero you picture him to be? He probably won't have a normal relationship ever in his life, nor will he have a family. Do you really think this is nothing to be upset about?

i care to find a woman, so it would upset me. some men simply dont care all that much. my brother is 26, hasnt had a girlfriend ever, and he says it just simply isnt on his radar. No, he is not gay, he points out hot chicks to me while we are in public quite frequently and he has had crushes on girls in the past.

if you do care to find a woman, but you cant succeed, i think its okay to be somewhat upset about it, but you shouldnt let it ruin your life and make you depressed. you should just try to resolve that problem, but not be overly upset about it.

this guy doesnt sound like is happy, and that is unfortunate. i dont know much about his situation. I hope that someday he is able to accomplish what he thinks is best for himself.

If you say, you can replace women with something else, then ok, become a monk. I don't mind. But maybe this guy has had other plans and dreams … 

ive been told that while i am single, i should enjoy life, and find other interests and things to do. I've also been told that women find this attractive, when a man can be content with himself. If a man requires a woman to make him happy, that is quite a burden to put on a girlfriend.

[krillbee]

Originally Posted by Doofy

You're missing the point dude. I was doing other things which didn't involve attracting women and attracted them anyways.

Now, if you think I put on an "alpha male act" to go buy a printer, you're way, way off-base.

I thought you were telling me that basically have to believe that you are "the best" if you want to attract women. And that sorta bothered me. Maybe i was misinterpreting you.

In fact, what was running through my head at the time was: "that new BMW 3 outside is hideous and this place is full of silver coloured crap - don't people have any taste any more?". Not: "if I act like an alpha male I can get chicks".

thats good. although some people have got their tactics down so well that they dont even have to think about them, it just comes naturally.

Yep, he's not happy about it at all. I've tried for years to explain things to him and (since I know him in real life) show him things... ...but he has the same "not listening" features that Krillbee is demonstrating.

does he have a problem with the advice that you are giving him? Does he believe it conflicts with his morals or his goals?

Because usually this is how I feel when i am rejecting advice that others are giving me.
And yes, many times i am misunderstanding what they are trying to tell me.

[krillbee]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I am saying you obviously have issues that need dealt with that we can't help you with.

I know that i need to be more social, but beyond that im not sure.

So I would ask you what other issues you think I have, but then you would probably get disappointed and say everyone here has been telling me all along and i havent been listening enough.

Originally Posted by Railroader

What low levels?!? Confidence and high regard for your self esteem are low levels? No, low self esteem and lack of self confidence are low levels.

I think we havent been understanding each other. Confidence and self esteem are great, I just dont want to have to 'act' confident, or start being cocky, or trying to be funny, or making it look like im something im not in order to attract women.

i thought you guys were implying that i should do the latter things, but i was wrong.

No it's not. We aren't being fake. We are simply confident men who happen to attract women.

okay, then I am sorry, i have been misunderstanding you.

The advice we gave you would help you in ALL aspects of your life. ALL ASPECTS!!! From job interviews, social networking, finding and keeping a mate, investing, and above all (if you are a Christian) your walk with Christ.

Behaving in ways to get other people to like me, (as is done with interviews, networking, keeping a mate, etc), that just doesnt seem right. I would rather behave as i am (while respecting those around me of course).

Investing, and walk with Christ, can you explain those?

He didn't set out to attract women. He just is. He set out to buy computer stuff. He opens the window of opportunity to finding the right women by being able to talk and attract a large majority of them. You don't get it do you?

i think i do now, i misread it earlier. read what i wrote to him above.

That would be 99.9999999% of all women. Why would women require men to have a negative and unrealistic attitude?

this is another example of miscommunication between us. what i meant to say was that i dont like it when a "positive and realistic atttitude" isn't good enough for women. For example if a woman wants a man to "think and know" that he is the best, that bothers me.

thats all i was trying to say.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by krillbee

I thought you were telling me that basically have to believe that you are "the best" if you want to attract women. And that sorta bothered me. Maybe i was misinterpreting you.

The reason I said it the way I did was because in order to gain the confidence you need, you have to kick start it in some way. It's real difficult to explain, but essentially acting it out to yourself is the easiest way to do this. Basically, if you're in a "no confidence" rut then the fastest way to get out of it is to fool yourself into having some.

Originally Posted by krillbee

does he have a problem with the advice that you are giving him? Does he believe it conflicts with his morals or his goals?

No, the guy's problem is that he doesn't listen and over-analyses things. This extends into other areas of his life too. For example, he's a guitarist but nobody will work with him because he doesn't listen to them.

Don't be that guy.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by krillbee

no i dont want to interpret confidence always as "acting confident". I just thought thats what some of you meant, in this thread. (that you wanted me to act more confident). Maybe i read things the wrong way.

Yes, you did.

Originally Posted by krillbee

All I am saying is simply that I would rather that appearances (of coming accross as confident), would not be only way to get your foot in the door. Becuase some men are confident, but dont look like it.

I don't understand what you mean by `are confident, but don't look confident.' Let me tell you something about women: they are experts at analyzing a person's (a guy's) behavior almost instantaneously. If you are confident, chances are that any woman in the room will recognize that much quicker than any guy does. Don't fool yourself into believing that there is such a thing as confidence that doesn't show.

Women like men with direction, a clear idea of what they want. Not just a direction in your career, but also in your life. You need experience for that. Women also like men who are willing to fight (not literally speaking for the most part). So there is no `confidence on the inside that's not apparent on the outside', it permeates your aura. Again, this is nothing superficial, nor is it something you can pretend to be. It's who you are.

Originally Posted by krillbee

if you do care to find a woman, but you cant succeed, i think its okay to be somewhat upset about it, but you shouldnt let it ruin your life and make you depressed. you should just try to resolve that problem, but not be overly upset about it.

You're in your 20s, he's 37, biiig difference. You still have all options, he has fewer every day. I don't know what his plans are, but again, if you want to have something boring like a family, then it's almost game over for you.

Originally Posted by krillbee

ive been told that while i am single, i should enjoy life, and find other interests and things to do. I've also been told that women find this attractive, when a man can be content with himself. If a man requires a woman to make him happy, that is quite a burden to put on a girlfriend.

Huh? A relationship is a commitment, but not a burden. A commitment (and the responsibilities it entails) can be a burden, but this is not what a relationship is about.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

You're in your 20s, he's 37, biiig difference. You still have all options, he has fewer every day. I don't know what his plans are

He doesn't even know what his plans are - which is part of his problem. I'm pretty sure that this is to do with his over-analysis of everything.

You're right though. He's pretty much completely out of options. Age in itself isn't the problem, but the fact that he hasn't sussed it yet is.

@ Krillbee: You really don't want to be going down the road that this guy has. Don't over-analyse everything. Do listen to those who've has some success in the areas in which you want to have success. It may seem like we're being assholes and trying to brag about our prowess or something, but all we're doing here is trying to help you.

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally Posted by krillbee

(snip)....unfortunately i think you are right, many of the people on here are offering suggestions that a good and honest man shouldnt follow.

Indeed.

Some are willing to accept quantity over quality. This most often leads to spending the majority of one's life in relationships that waste time.

Be yourself. Nobody else does.

Works for me. All my girlfriends are hotties.

edited to add:

Put your life goals ahead of everything else. Don't get sidetracked. You'll learn to like yourself...which inspires confidence. The same 'confidence' everyone in here seems to believe you can fake.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Indeed.

Wrong. This assumes that all guys with confidence aren't "good and honest men". The two values aren't incompatible - in fact, being a properly "good and honest man" gives a guy confidence.

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Some are willing to accept quantity over quality.

Don't be making assumptions there old chap. Just because I get hit on every time I go out of the house doesn't mean I date all of them. Would you rather go to the candy store which has a wide variety of types so you can choose your favourite or would you prefer the candy store which carries only two or three different kinds?

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

...which inspires confidence. The same 'confidence' everyone in here seems to believe you can fake.

Go read the thread again Spliffy. Nothing in here has been about faking confidence.