[EricTheRed]

After installing all the security updates Safari, my email application, and other software would just quit without explanation or warning. With my work, any hiccop or down-time is unacceptable. Long story short. I reinstalled my system off of the included DVD and updated it to 10.4.8 but without applying any of the security updates (that fully support Java--that, in Safari's case, when encountering a Java hack or error causes the open application to freeze and quit) and my problems are gone.

[RevEvs]

Well Its unfortunate you are having these issues, but you cant really state that people should not install security updates!

Most of the people on this forum are probably running 10.4.8 with all updates, and I doubt they are seeing the issues you are seeing.

[EricTheRed]

Seems there is a trickle of people asking how come my X suddenly quits. Now we all know the work-around.

[mynewmac]

on my imac i had to stop on 10.4.3 cause anything after that crashes my comp every time.

[Simon]

In my experience with supporting other people security updates often don't actually cause the trouble. The issues were there before. But only after applying the updates when machines get rebooted, caches get flushed etc. you actually start to notice trouble.

[EricTheRed]

Originally Posted by Simon 

In my experience with supporting other people the security updates often don't actually cause the trouble. The issues where there before. But only after applying the updates when machines get rebooted, caches get flushed etc. you actually start to notice trouble.

Oh this one did. I went and found out why. It adds complete support for Java (yah!) but in practice when it trips over a Java hack or anything less that perfect Java it quits the application (boo!). In my case, one of the applications I use for work is a Java-based streaming application to keep tabs on the market so I can make money to eat. Imagine that I'm chasing the market with a trade when suddenly my browser just quits and I've got $25,000 money in play and I'm blind! Scary.

This just cannot happen. Not again. Not ever.

Nothing messing up is the reason I use a Mac.

At any-rate I'm sharing that Apple's security updates install more problems than they are worth on a Mac Pro 3.0 Ghz.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by EricTheRed 

At any-rate I'm sharing that Apple's security updates install more problems than they are worth on a Mac Pro 3.0 Ghz.

In your case (and I believe it has rather to do with the software you use than with the 3GHz MP) that may be true. I'm not challenging that. But to go out and tell people that in general they should not install "any security updates" is IMHO pretty bold. Are you sure that's the message you want to send to not-so-savvy users?

[CharlesS]

If you have a problem with the any security update, all you have to do is press the any key.

[::maroma::]

Its a bummer that you ran into some problems. But I agree with others when they say that you shouldn't go around flat out telling people the Security Updates are dangerous and shouldn't be installed, based on your single bad experience. Security Updates are very important. Its rather irresponsible to tell people to stay away from them.

And I realize that downtime can be a huge problem, but there is no computer in the world that wont have problems from time to time. Luckily, the Mac is hard to bring down. I hope that you don't run into that problem again.

[kcmac]

Huh. Never any problems here with our 4 mac household. Better luck next time.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by EricTheRed 

Oh this one did. I went and found out why. It adds complete support for Java

What? OS X has fully supported Java for, like, four versions now. I wrote Java programs on OS X 10.1.

Originally Posted by EricTheRed 

At any-rate I'm sharing that Apple's security updates install more problems than they are worth on a Mac Pro 3.0 Ghz.

If everybody who installed security updates had such problems, we'd know about it by now. It does not happen to most people who install security updates. Ergo, installing security updates is not the problem. I'm sorry you've had trouble, but the cause isn't necessarily what you think it is.

[MichiganRich]

Don't listen to any of the eric the red posts.

[EricTheRed]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

What? OS X has fully supported Java for, like, four versions now. I wrote Java programs on OS X 10.1.


If everybody who installed security updates had such problems, we'd know about it by now. It does not happen to most people who install security updates. Ergo, installing security updates is not the problem. I'm sorry you've had trouble, but the cause isn't necessarily what you think it is.

Right. Security Update 2006-008 improves the security of the following components:

Quartz Composer
QuickTime for Java

In my case it made my mac pro unreliable. Apple's page: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=304916

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by EricTheRed 

In my case it made my mac pro unreliable.

That doesn't mean this is actually an effect of the update or that there's anything wrong with the security update. I sneezed yesterday and it started raining, but I don't suppose my sneezes cause rain.

[EricTheRed]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

That doesn't mean this is actually an effect of the update or that there's anything wrong with the security update. I sneezed yesterday and it started raining, but I don't suppose my sneezes cause rain.

It made my Mac Pro running Entourage (from 2004 Office), the latest version of Safari and the latest version of Parallels crash when I least expected it and often. Perhaps you run different software but the three applications I keep open through out the day are pretty common.

Other bad things happened as a result of unexpected crashes like my iTunes Library getting corrupted.

As I stated, since reinstalling OSX from the system disk and updating back to 10.4.8 sans the evil security update, I've been free from errors, crashes, and applications unexpectedly quiting without Apple's little report box showing up so i couldn't report the problem to Apple.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by EricTheRed 

It made my Mac Pro running Entourage (from 2004 Office), the latest version of Safari and the latest version of Parallels crash when I least expected it and often. Perhaps you run different software but the three applications I keep open through out the day are pretty common.

Other bad things happened as a result of unexpected crashes like my iTunes Library getting corrupted.

As I stated, since reinstalling OSX from the system disk and updating back to 10.4.8 sans the evil security update, I've been free from errors, crashes, and applications unexpectedly quiting without Apple's little report box showing up so i couldn't report the problem to Apple.

Have you tried reinstalling and then applying the security update to a fresh install? Did it ever occur to you that it could be a coincidence? Apparently not.

FWIW, I have a friend with a Mac Pro and he had NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER with the Security Update.

There are a variety of coincidental things that could lead to problems after installing any Software Update. You can't just blame the update for your problems.

First, if your system runs all the time, reboot it before installing an update. Sometimes small problems with the system in memory can creep in and mess with the update installation process. Also, try running disk utility's "Repair Disk" procedure before doing the install.

In fact, a future software update may include the "evil security update" and you'll install it and find there aren't any problems with it.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by EricTheRed 

It made my Mac Pro running Entourage (from 2004 Office), the latest version of Safari and the latest version of Parallels crash when I least expected it and often.

Other bad things happened as a result of unexpected crashes like my iTunes Library getting corrupted.

Don't be silly. The security update did not do that. You had another issue with your computer that manifested after the reboot.

[Chito]

Why do you people insist on feeding the trolls?

[OreoCookie]

@Eric
I've changed the thread title.
Even if you have problems with your machine after the update, it's a long stretch to suggest people not to install any software update. That's a rather dangerous suggestion. In general Software Updates undergo rigorous testing and although there are cases when updates cause problems, most of the time, they solve problems.

The second misconception of yours was that you have assumed your problems are shared by all others who have installed this update. This is obviously not the case. I have installed it on my ProBook and I haven't noticed any difference in stability (i. e. things are just fine) and I haven't had to reboot ever since.

[EricTheRed]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

Have you tried reinstalling and then applying the security update to a fresh install? Did it ever occur to you that it could be a coincidence? Apparently not.

FWIW, I have a friend with a Mac Pro and he had NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER with the Security Update.

There are a variety of coincidental things that could lead to problems after installing any Software Update. You can't just blame the update for your problems.

First, if your system runs all the time, reboot it before installing an update. Sometimes small problems with the system in memory can creep in and mess with the update installation process. Also, try running disk utility's "Repair Disk" procedure before doing the install.

In fact, a future software update may include the "evil security update" and you'll install it and find there aren't any problems with it.

as a general rule my computer runs all day and gets shut off at night.

It was a new Mac with what i presume a fresh install before I added the security update. Before the security update everything worked great. Immediately after the security update nothing but problems. Now, after a fresh install without the security update I'm problem free.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by EricTheRed 

It was a new Mac with what i presume a fresh install before I added the security update. Before the security update everything worked great. Immediately after the security update nothing but problems. Now, after a fresh install without the security update I'm problem free.

I know it's hard to believe, but it still may be just coincidence.

Do you have an external drive or something you could install a separate copy of the operating system on? Try reinstalling the operating system on it. Then reboot using that copy of the OS. Then install all system updates on the copy. Including the security update. See what happens.

Then, I suggest that you get SuperDuper, which will allow you to "clone" your drive to another one, preserving the clone's ability to boot your computer. Each time a new update comes out, you can clone your drive, reboot your computer, install the update on your main partition, and if there are any problems, you have a copy of the OS and your applications exactly as they were before the update, which you can clone back to the main partition. It's the way I do these things, just in case I run into a problem, and I've never had any problems with any software update doing this.

[cenutrio]

Ok, a Java application I use for some metabolic networking work I'm doing these days doesn't load after I updated to Java for Mac OS X 10.4, Release 5. Eric the Red may have a point. Updating may have its drawbacks, just my opinion.

I'm screw now, anyone knows how can I get the previous Java version?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by cenutrio 

Ok, a Java application I use for some metabolic networking work I'm doing these days doesn't load after I updated to Java for Mac OS X 10.4, Release 5. Eric the Red may have a point. Updating may have its drawbacks, just my opinion.

There are now a total of two people who have had problems (not confirmed to be actually caused by any problem in the update mechanism) and 9,999,998 who haven't. I still don't think there's any valid reason for concern.

However, there are problems that are likely to occur if you don't update. That's why the updates exist. It's not as though Apple makes money off of them.

Without profiling and an actual, reproducible bug, you can't say what caused your problem, and discouraging people from updating does more harm than good. A friend of mine once unmounted a server and her computer kernel panicked. Based on your logic, we might say that unmounting servers is dangerous in Mac OS X. In fact, I had already figured out at that point that something was wrong with her Suitcase installation, and the panic just happened to come shortly after as something else.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

There are now a total of two people who have had problems (not confirmed to be actually caused by any problem in the update mechanism) and 9,999,998 who haven't. I still don't think there's any valid reason for concern.

However, there are problems that are likely to occur if you don't update. That's why the updates exist. It's not as though Apple makes money off of them.

Without profiling and an actual, reproducible bug, you can't say what caused your problem, and discouraging people from updating does more harm than good. A friend of mine once unmounted a server and her computer kernel panicked. Based on your logic, we might say that unmounting servers is dangerous in Mac OS X. In fact, I had already figured out at that point that something was wrong with her Suitcase installation, and the panic just happened to come shortly after as something else.

To be fair, he's not knocking the Security Updates.

It is entirely reasonable to wonder if the Java update broke something in his Java application. The application he uses may require a specific version to run.

[Hal Itosis]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

It is entirely reasonable to wonder if the Java update broke something in his Java application.
The application he uses may require a specific version to run.

I don't know how many folks out there have Prosoft's DataBackup 2.1 (my guess is not many).

Anyway, the latest Java update has croaked that app on my machine. It appears Prosoft is on
the brink of releasing version 3 anyway, but either not too many folks use it or those who do
haven't run the Java for Mac OS X 10.4 Release update 5 yet.

[frdmfghtr]

A lot of IT departments (no, I'm not in IT) will test out patches separately before installing on a production machine. As pointed out by Person Man, a Java app could require a specific version of Java to run. In another case, it may be that an applet takes advantage of a "feature" that is no longer allowed to be used by that applet. Case in point: the specific security update, 2006-008, states this, in part:

"This update addresses the issue by disallowing Quartz Composer compositions in unsigned Java applets."

Perhaps the app in question is unsigned.

In any event, if a patch is going to (or may) affect an important app that you use, test it on a separate machine first if possible before installing it on a production machine. If your machine and apps are that important, this extra step makes good sense.

Now, to address the issue (maybe too late to do so but I'll ask anyway)...

Did you check the system logs to see if there is some sort of log entry? What did it do on the crash--freeze, kernel panics, ???

Is/was the machine still under warranty? Did you call the support line to to try getting the problem resolved?

Not installing the patches is a workaround, not a solution. If you are under warranty, Apple has a responsibility to solve the problem, so I suggest that you contact Apple and get the problem fixed before it causes other problems.