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Kevin · Oct 27, 2007, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by Jasoco

I just want the customization we HAD BACK!

Since OS 9.

mdc · Oct 27, 2007, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by .Neo

Great! Any thoughts if those cursors are used systemwide or just in Safari? The spinning beach ball isn't there for example.

I only change the linkCursor.png image and that changes in Safari, Dashboard and other apps that use WebKit. I just checked now and it changes it in Mail. If I remember correct, Mail in 10.4 did not use the changed linkCursor.

Jasoco · Oct 27, 2007, 09:48 AM

They switched to WebKit and HTML powered emails for Mail, so that would explain why the cursor changes there.

mdc · Oct 27, 2007, 10:00 AM

What did Mail.app used to use?

TETENAL · Oct 27, 2007, 10:27 AM

Can it be that WebArchives don't have icon preview and quick look? And not even an updated high resolution icon?

.Neo · 10:40 AM

Wow that's pretty bad. None of the Safari document icons have 512x512 pixel states. They haven't updated the Apple Remote Desktop icon either with the Leopard-compatible update. Nor have the document icons of Automator, iCal, some of iChat, some of the iLife '08 applications, Quick Time Player and Text Edit. The ones from Quick Time and Text Edit are understandable because the document icon itself won't show up in Quick Look.

Is there a place where we can give Apple feedback of this stuff? Can't seem to find it.

Jasoco · Oct 27, 2007, 10:35 AM

Apple - Mac OS X - Feedback

Kevin · Oct 27, 2007, 11:44 AM

Yeah I have put a perm bookmark in my drawer for that ever since I got 10.5 installed.

CharlesS · Oct 27, 2007, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Jasoco

Apple - Mac OS X - Feedback

Actually, I think this page is better (although it requires a free ADC account):

http://bugreport.apple.com/

MindFad · Oct 28, 2007, 05:43 PM

OK, I LIKE the brighter stoplight buttons. What I don't like is the rollover state for the zoom button. The (X) of the close button and (–) of the minimize button look like they are behind the light reflecting off the top of the glassy color (or "inside" the glass), whereas the (+) just looks like it's sitting on top of the glass. It's much more bold than the other two. Not that I'm complaining, but it's one of the first things that I noticed.

That and my "Computer" icon in the sidebar magically turns into a G4 tower when I use the open dialogue in Photoshop CS. (I'm on a MacBook Pro.) Dunno if this is the case in all Rosetta apps.

vertigociel · Oct 28, 2007, 08:57 PM

I've been tooling around with the Dock's resources, and I've managed to change a few things.

First, I made the dock dark by darkening the Dock.app>Resources>scurve-x.png files. Then, I made the indicators bright white, and darkened the little white line that appears at the bottom of the dock. Now, the Dock is as a whole much less distracting, and It's much easier to tell what applications are running. Take a look:

Next, I figured out how to totally eliminate the reflections on the dock - both application icons, and windows that are near the dock. The scurve.png files are actually semi-transparent, and if you eliminate the transparency (by placing, say, an opaque black layer underneath it), reflections don't show up:

It seems that the reflections are drawn underneath the dock, and the dock is layered on top.

Jasoco · Oct 28, 2007, 09:38 PM

Interesting. Exploring around it seems that you can also edit the "street lines" separator if you want. And there are 4 different S-Curves. Plus you can edit how the non-3D (aka the black and white Dock styles) look. With creativity, you CAN make it look like it used to.

Browsing the Finder, it seems Time Machine's "Vortex" is stored in there as a bunch of PNG's. Stars, a sun, everything is a different image. Go wild!

Jasoco · Oct 28, 2007, 09:46 PM

The Dock in 3D form seems to be made up of a few elements.
S-Curve (Of course this is the reflection effect.)

Indicators (The LED's)

Front Line (This is a white line that appears as the frontmost bottommost white 2 pixel thick line at the bottom of the Dock. Supposedly to give it a 3D front of shelf feel.)

Separator (What else)

Open in Finder (The arrow for showing the Stack's contents in the Finder)

Magic Carpet (This is the black rounded text background shown under tooltips and "Fan" titles.)

Magic Carped (Another one used for the non Fan version of Stacks.)

0157988944 · Oct 28, 2007, 09:46 PM

Interesting. Exploring around it seems that you can also edit the "street lines" separator if you want. And there are 4 different S-Curves. Plus you can edit how the non-3D (aka the black and white Dock styles) look. With creativity, you CAN make it look like it used to.

Browsing the Finder, it seems Time Machine's "Vortex" is stored in there as a bunch of PNG's. Stars, a sun, everything is a different image. Go wild!

YES! UFOs in the Time Machine Window!!!

- - e r i k - - · Oct 29, 2007, 04:27 AM

Originally Posted by Jasoco

Separator (What else)

It's not called AbbeyRoad anymore?

Jasoco · Oct 29, 2007, 05:38 AM

Was it ever?

mfbernstein · Oct 29, 2007, 09:11 AM

John Siracusa's AppleInsider | Apple Insider News and Analysis is up on Ars Technica. He covers all of Apple's GUI WTF moments. All I can say is that Apple's penchant for breaking perfectly good interfaces is approaching Microsoftesque. All the more aggravating since they're obviously competent enough to do a good job.

- - e r i k - - · Oct 30, 2007, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by Jasoco

Was it ever?

Jasoco · Oct 30, 2007, 12:34 AM

Disappointing. It's now called "separator". Booooring.

Also, let me once again bring up how much I HATE those white borders they put on EVERY IMAGE. Not only does it make the thumbnail smaller, but transparent images look like crap. WTF? Please tell me that this is an option hidden in the OS that will be disabled with the next version of Onyx.

I didn't want borders on my portraits. Send them back to Kodak and have them done again, please!

CharlesS · Oct 30, 2007, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by Jasoco

Disappointing. It's now called "separator". Booooring.

I'd guess Apple is probably sick of getting sued by the Beatles by now.

Jasoco · Oct 30, 2007, 01:15 AM

My thoughts exactly.

- - e r i k - - · Oct 30, 2007, 01:27 AM

Seeing as Apple now owns all right to the Apple trademark and is licensing it to Apple Corps it would seem the tables have turned...

CharlesS · Oct 30, 2007, 03:12 AM

Yeah, but do they have the rights to the name "Abbey Road"? I doubt it.

kilechki · Oct 30, 2007, 12:16 PM

Has anyone found how to enable menubar translucency on G4? It was on in 5a559 and it's now off in the GM. And it looks really bad...

- - e r i k - - · Oct 30, 2007, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Yeah, but do they have the rights to the name "Abbey Road"? I doubt it.

Does anyone but the Westminster City Council?

allap · Oct 31, 2007, 12:14 AM

I just installed Leopard today, and I have to say, I'm VERY disappointed with how the GUI turned out. I appreciate the move towards a unified GUI, but the dock is horrible, the menu bar is terrible on light backgrounds (not to mention with any non-standard icon in it ie: google notifier), and everything is still horribly inconsistent. Aw well...maybe they'll come to their senses for 10.6.

- - e r i k - - · Oct 31, 2007, 02:58 AM

I swear I was seeing things, but no... Pro apps now have different menus from non-pro apps:

stew · Oct 31, 2007, 03:44 AM

Originally Posted by MindFad

That and my "Computer" icon in the sidebar magically turns into a G4 tower when I use the open dialogue in Photoshop CS. (I'm on a MacBook Pro.) Dunno if this is the case in all Rosetta apps.

After reading the HIToolbox release notes, it might be that it's the Carbon file dialog you see instead of the Cocoa dialog (beats me why the two have to look different to begin with). While 10.5 tries to use the Cocoa dialogs everywhere (= in Carbon apps too), it can only do this when the dialog is called from the main thread. Since the Cocoa file dialog is not safe to be called from a background thread, it has to use Carbon in those cases. (Yes, Cocoa is so much better and modern and what not. NSOpenPanel/NSSavePanel are there since the NeXT days and still not thread safe.

)

lpkmckenna · Oct 31, 2007, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

I swear I was seeing things, but no... Pro apps now have different menus from non-pro apps

Sweet Jeebus.

Jasoco · Oct 31, 2007, 05:33 PM

Well, at least they're close.

It's a lot less different then GarageBand's radically different wooden interface.

CharlesS · Oct 31, 2007, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by stew

After reading the HIToolbox release notes, it might be that it's the Carbon file dialog you see instead of the Cocoa dialog (beats me why the two have to look different to begin with). While 10.5 tries to use the Cocoa dialogs everywhere (= in Carbon apps too), it can only do this when the dialog is called from the main thread. Since the Cocoa file dialog is not safe to be called from a background thread, it has to use Carbon in those cases. (Yes, Cocoa is so much better and modern and what not. NSOpenPanel/NSSavePanel are there since the NeXT days and still not thread safe.

)

Huh? All you have to do is use -[NSObject performSelectorOnMainThread:withObject:waitUntilDo ne:] to have it open the dialog box on the main thread, and get the result when it finishes.

ginoledesma · Oct 31, 2007, 08:09 PM

The "pro menus" remind me a lot of Copland (Platinum-esque theme), only more modern looking.

Taylor C · Oct 31, 2007, 10:22 PM

Pro Apps also change the menu bar to opaque. Apple's professional applications have never followed the standard UI conventions under OS X, though.

0157988944 · Oct 31, 2007, 10:55 PM

But they haven't edited the menu bar... But I do like that, it allows for focus on the task at hand. Does it change for non- Apple pro apps, like CS3?

- - e r i k - - · Oct 31, 2007, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by adamfishercox

But they haven't edited the menu bar... But I do like that, it allows for focus on the task at hand. Does it change for non- Apple pro apps, like CS3?

No. Of course not. How would Apple know which other applications consider themselves "pro"?

0157988944 · Oct 31, 2007, 11:23 PM

Dunno, but they could have added common ones like CS3.

stew · Nov 1, 2007, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Huh? All you have to do is use -[NSObject performSelectorOnMainThread:withObject:waitUntilDo ne:] to have it open the dialog box on the main thread, and get the result when it finishes.

Precisely - you have to do it in the main thread (which may be busy at the time). If it were thread safe, you could do it from any thread.

Kevin · Nov 3, 2007, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by MindFad

OK, I LIKE the brighter stoplight buttons. What I don't like is the rollover state for the zoom button. The (X) of the close button and (–) of the minimize button look like they are behind the light reflecting off the top of the glassy color (or "inside" the glass), whereas the (+) just looks like it's sitting on top of the glass. It's much more bold than the other two. Not that I'm complaining, but it's one of the first things that I noticed.

That and my "Computer" icon in the sidebar magically turns into a G4 tower when I use the open dialogue in Photoshop CS. (I'm on a MacBook Pro.) Dunno if this is the case in all Rosetta apps.

Heh

Someone flubbed up.

lpkmckenna · Nov 3, 2007, 12:20 PM

Jeebus, that's sad.

0157988944 · Nov 3, 2007, 12:23 PM

And one that I doubt they'll fix too soon.

Kevin · Nov 4, 2007, 06:53 AM

Like I said, you don't even see shoddiness like that in the professionally done themes made by forum members. You shouldn't see them from Apple either.

Someone isn't paying attention/checking their work.

TETENAL · Nov 6, 2007, 11:27 AM

iTunes 7.5 updated the window widgets and now has a light window colour in the background, but it still has the new style scroll bars. Weird.

iPhoto also has the new style scroll bars, but I noticed that it switches to Aqua scroll bars when it is running within Time Machine. Weirder.

Kevin · 01:52 PM

Not weird. Just inconsistent. Obviously Apple's consistency isn't what it once was.

10.5 is the first OS X release since 10.0 that has "felt" like a beta.

BTW I've already hacked 10.5's scrollbars and thumbs to match iTunes's. Working on the rest. My goal is to make the 10.5 Finder look like iTunes.

dfallman · Nov 6, 2007, 12:00 PM

I've made a version of the dock that works for me, a "Glass Dock". In my view, the two shades of grey used in Apple's original are too dark, the icons get blurred, especially if you use small(ish) icons/dock. That S-curve didn't really add much either (well, confusion perhaps).

So I did a really simple one designed to stay out of the way as much as possible.

It's available for download here: daniel.fallman.org | glass dock

sogbrightlight · Nov 6, 2007, 09:02 PM

That's because it is. On close examination the + is darker than the X and -

Someone effed up.

Also in aperture the traffic graphite lights haven't been updated. WOOHOO APPLE! GO TEAM! WOOT WOOT!

sogbrightlight · 09:04 PM

Are you going to indulge us in how to do this? Referring to the man who hacked the scrollbars.

also sorry for the double post.

0157988944 · Nov 6, 2007, 09:06 PM

read the thread...
he said after he gets it working well he'll release instructions.

sogbrightlight · Nov 6, 2007, 09:11 PM

there are 8 pages to this thread. I just skimmed. SORRY.

Kevin · Nov 7, 2007, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by sogbrightlight

Are you going to indulge us in how to do this? Referring to the man who hacked the scrollbars.

also sorry for the double post.

Try the GUI modifications page.

MindFad · Nov 11, 2007, 06:13 PM

Sloppy Safari tabs!