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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Applications > iTunes 7.2 is out

iTunes 7.2 is out
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madcran
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May 30, 2007, 01:10 AM
 
Just showed up in Software Update. "With iTunes 7.2, preview and purchase iTunes Plus music—new higher-quality, DRM-free music downloads from participating music labels"
     
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May 30, 2007, 01:29 AM
 
That explains where the DRM-free music was...
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blackbird_1.0
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May 30, 2007, 01:30 AM
 
Just installed it.
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madcran  (op)
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May 30, 2007, 01:51 AM
 
I just had to tell everyone. Well at least some of you. ;-) So far I have not seen much on the Store, maybe tomorrow.
     
blackbird_1.0
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May 30, 2007, 01:54 AM
 
Yeah, not much on Apple's site, either. Maybe tomorrow. :-)
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andyr2120
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May 30, 2007, 05:05 AM
 
I've been waiting for this ever since they made the announcement. I've really been conflicted over the last few years -- I love music and I don't mind buying it, but I have been so disgusted with the RIAA that I have not purchased a new CD since they started suing people. Man, when did I buy my last CD??? Probably 2001. I broke my boycott long enough to buy a 100 or so songs from eMusic, but I was not happy with buying relatively lo-fi file formats. It sounds like Apple is giving me what I want.

I guess I should explain that I had also refused to buy from iTunes because of the DRM and the middle of the road audio quality. Problems solved (I hope)!

I can't wait to try the new 256k AAC files and I really hope they are the answer to my dilemma.
     
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May 30, 2007, 09:32 AM
 
I keep getting an iTunes Store error when I enable iTunes Plus. Maybe too busy?
     
zro
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May 30, 2007, 10:51 AM
 
Where's the "upgrade" option?
     
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May 30, 2007, 10:58 AM
 
Too bad the songs are 30 cents more for no DRM. How much does a full non-DRM album cost?

I don't have iTunes installed, or else I'd look myself.
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Gee4orce
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May 30, 2007, 11:14 AM
 
Full albums are the same price. Yes - the same price as DRM-ed albums.

To see the 'plus' (non-DRMed content) you have to turn it on in your account settings, and accept a licence agreement (which presumably says "don't pirate it").

They've also added iTunesU - which is tons and tons of freely available lectures from US universities. Fantastic !
     
goMac
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May 30, 2007, 11:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by zro View Post
Where's the "upgrade" option?
I'm still looking for that too.

Edit: Found it. In iTunes Plus:Upgrade My Library.

Edit 2: This is odd. I've noticed two EMI artists, Bloc Party and James Blunt, are both not available on iTunes Plus. Apple isn't including them in my iTunes Plus upgrade list at all.
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OAW
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May 30, 2007, 11:51 AM
 
WARNING

This latest version of iTunes is incompatible with the latest version of Uno. If you use Uno 1.5.1 to theme iTunes 7.2 then it will no longer be able to "see" your iTunes Library. Essentially the iTunes window will be blank. Fortunately, all you need to do is reinstall iTunes to get things working again. Your iTunes Library is definitely not gone.

So in short, don't use Uno to theme iTunes 7.2 until an update comes out!

OAW
     
ccrider
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May 30, 2007, 01:20 PM
 
man something's wrong with the store i think-

I tried to upgrade my library with the new drm free tunes, but when I click "buy", I get an error:
"The item you tried to buy is no longer available"
"The availability of the tiem changed while your were using the store. The same item may be available with a different price or elsewhere on the store."

wtf? Anyone else have this prob?
     
dpicardi
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May 30, 2007, 01:58 PM
 
Not sure why everyone is excited about this?

iTunes is great, But with the new price for DRM free music you are better off going to Amazon (or pick your favorite online retailer) and purchasing your CD for $10-12 and ripping it yourself and saving cash. (then selling it if really want to save cash).

If iTunes changed their model to $.49 for DRM and $.69 for DRM free (and $5.99 an album) I think then this would make sense and people would go absolutely nuts.

To me $10 for a "virtual" album is too much.
     
peeb
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May 30, 2007, 02:00 PM
 
I get the impression its still being set up. Give it a day or so and try again.
     
OAW
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May 30, 2007, 02:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by dpicardi View Post
Not sure why everyone is excited about this?

iTunes is great, But with the new price for DRM free music you are better off going to Amazon (or pick your favorite online retailer) and purchasing your CD for $10-12 and ripping it yourself and saving cash. (then selling it if really want to save cash).

If iTunes changed their model to $.49 for DRM and $.69 for DRM free (and $5.99 an album) I think then this would make sense and people would go absolutely nuts.

To me $10 for a "virtual" album is too much.
So spend more money on a CD only to rip it and toss it in a drawer forever? That makes sense how exactly? Bear in mind that the price is still $9.99 for the higher quality tracks when you purchase the full album.

OAW
     
Nodnarb
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May 30, 2007, 02:21 PM
 
I thought it was $12.99 for the higher quality DRM-free albums
     
Trin
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May 30, 2007, 02:36 PM
 
iTunes U was also released as part of iTunes 7.2. I'm looking forward to seeing what's available there - opening software update as we speak. I'm glad the upgrades for the DRM-free songs aren't that expensive. I'm curious to see how much better the quality is. Think I still have half-a-dollar in iTunes money that I have left over from another purchase so I'm going to try one out.
     
Grrr
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May 30, 2007, 02:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by dpicardi View Post
Not sure why everyone is excited about this?

iTunes is great, But with the new price for DRM free music you are better off going to Amazon (or pick your favorite online retailer) and purchasing your CD for $10-12 and ripping it yourself and saving cash. (then selling it if really want to save cash).

If iTunes changed their model to $.49 for DRM and $.69 for DRM free (and $5.99 an album) I think then this would make sense and people would go absolutely nuts.

To me $10 for a "virtual" album is too much.
Its not so much Apples fault, its the record companies (EMI in this case). They generally have a bigger say in how much it sells for than Apple do. So theres little use complaining to Apple. Blame the greedy record companies.

Btw, Im getting "Error -50" when i try to upgrade a couple of tracks to DRM free.. So that side of it appears not to work yet.
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OAW
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May 30, 2007, 03:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Nodnarb View Post
I thought it was $12.99 for the higher quality DRM-free albums
Nope. Well then again .... not really. The bottom line is that the higher quality, DRM-free albums cost the same as the the lower quality, DRM-laden albums. If the album is $9.99 as most are, then that is the price regardless of the version you choose. However, if the album costs $12.99 (or whatever) then the DRM free version costs the same.

The pricing model is designed to encourage the purchase of entire albums which is what the labels prefer. So if you generally buy albums as I do then going with iTunes Plus doesn't cost you anything except twice as much disk space to store the files. But if you tend to cherry pick individual tracks primarily then iTunes Plus will cost you the disk space plus and extra $.30 per track.

OAW
     
peeb
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May 30, 2007, 03:11 PM
 
How do I send someone a link to an item on the itunes store (eg - THIS LINK goes to the file I want you to download) so that it opens iTunes at the store page with the item on it? Thanks!
     
OAW
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May 30, 2007, 03:26 PM
 
Right click (or CTRL-click) on the Album or Song name and select "Copy iTunes Store URL". The just paste it into your email.

OAW
     
peeb
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May 30, 2007, 03:30 PM
 
Hey thanks!
     
dpicardi
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May 30, 2007, 05:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
So spend more money on a CD only to rip it and toss it in a drawer forever? That makes sense how exactly? Bear in mind that the price is still $9.99 for the higher quality tracks when you purchase the full album.

OAW
I'll type this more slowly so maybe you'll understand...

I'll just take the hottest selling album at itunes now - the new Maroon 5 as an example.

You can buy it on iTunes for $9.99 OR you can by it at Amazon for $9.99. If you spend more than $25 (buy 3 albums) you get free shipping. If you don't shipping is pretty cheap anyway.

Now you can rip that CD you got from Amazon at ANY bit rate (even lossless) and there is never any DRM. You never have to worry about losing your "purchases" because you have the CD. OR, if you are confident in your backup system, you can sell the CD to your friend for you (name the price).

Cheaper and better quality with little to no extra effort.

Again I love iTunes - especially for the TV shows. But for music, unless I only want 1 or 3 songs off an album, why wouldn't I just by the CD for the same price (or darn close to it) at Amazon and never have to worry about compression or DRM again?

To each his own...
     
voodoo
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May 30, 2007, 06:01 PM
 
Amazon doesn't offer instant gratification. I'd have to wait some time before getting my music from Amazon, but only a few seconds through iTMS.

It's also more work to buy, rip and sell a CD. Sure you'd perhaps save some money, but only if your time is worth nothing.

I'm going to install this update later this week when the dust has settled.

V
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OAW
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May 30, 2007, 06:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by dpicardi
I'll type this more slowly so maybe you'll understand...
Sarcasm huh? Ok then ......

Originally Posted by dpicardi
I'll just take the hottest selling album at itunes now - the new Maroon 5 as an example.

You can buy it on iTunes for $9.99 OR you can by it at Amazon for $9.99. If you spend more than $25 (buy 3 albums) you get free shipping. If you don't shipping is pretty cheap anyway.
Now wasn't it you that said ...

But with the new price for DRM free music you are better off going to Amazon (or pick your favorite online retailer) and purchasing your CD for $10-12 and ripping it yourself and saving cash.
But now you provide an example where the price on Amazon is $9.99. Certainly $9.99 is cheaper than $10 - 12. Hence my earlier reply to your statement. Did you think I wouldn't notice your price change? Tsk. Tsk.

Furthermore, since you have to buy 3 albums to get free shipping from Amazon ... how is that cheaper when you only want one album (or a few tracks) and there is no shipping involved on iTunes. How does "pretty cheap shipping" which is going to run at least a buck or two come out cheaper than a $9.99 purchase with no shipping on iTunes? Basic arithmetic is what I'm talking about here. Just what are you talking about?

Originally Posted by dpicardi
Now you can rip that CD you got from Amazon at ANY bit rate (even lossless) and there is never any DRM. You never have to worry about losing your "purchases" because you have the CD. OR, if you are confident in your backup system, you can sell the CD to your friend for you (name the price).

Cheaper and better quality with little to no extra effort
Wow. I need to get going so let me obliterate this foolishness in bullet form to save time.

- I suppose one can't "lose" a CD huh? Or have it get scratched and rendered unplayable?

- Sell a used CD to a friend? After I find someone that wants it then I might net the cost of the Amazon shipping. Whatever.

- Cheaper? $10 - 12 < $9.99 and $9.99 + shipping < $9.99 in your world. Ok Sparky. And apparently you don't place much value on your time since you have to rip the CDs and run around like a door-to-door salesman looking for someone to unload your CD to. Let's not even get into storage costs for that ever growing CD collection that will eventually start to take up more and more space in your residence.

- Better quality? Perhaps. Though most people won't hear the difference between a 256k AAC and the CD ... as most studies reflect. Besides, your original post didn't mention anything about quality. That post made the "it's cheaper to buy off Amazon" argument ... and that is what I challenged.

Originally Posted by dpicardi
Again I love iTunes - especially for the TV shows. But for music, unless I only want 1 or 3 songs off an album, why wouldn't I just by the CD for the same price (or darn close to it) at Amazon and never have to worry about compression or DRM again?
Well given the "or darn close to it" there perhaps all hope is not lost when it come to your mathematical skills. But have you noticed that you've changed the subject once again? Your original post was about price and now you are making the compression and DRM argument. Nevertheless, I'll address these points ...

- Compression: Again, a 256k AAC is virtually indistinguishable from a CD to the average listener. Any differences will be something that only the "audiophile" crowd will care about.

- DRM: iTunes Plus are DRM-free. Why would I need to buy a CD to not have to worry about DRM?

Originally Posted by dpicardi
To each his own...
Indeed.

OAW
     
parsec_kadets
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May 30, 2007, 06:25 PM
 
There still appear to be a few issues. Awhile ago I bought a couple Norah Jones songs. When I look at the album in the store I see that there is a plus version for every song. However, those songs aren't listed in the upgrade list. So I guess I'm SOL until Apple fixes it.

Also, ever since Apple made the announcement I was wondering how this would work with Complete My Album. Thankfully they included that in the FAQ. Basically it says you have to upgrade the tracks you have first, then complete the album. So now I'm double SOL since I want to complete that Norah Jones album. I can't do that until after I upgrade the songs (according to the FAQ), but I can't upgrade tracks. Arg.
     
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May 30, 2007, 07:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by dpicardi View Post
I'll type this more slowly so maybe you'll understand...
We understand. But I don't buy albums any more. I only buy the songs I like. So I can pay $2.60 for 2 songs at the iTunes store, or I can pay $9.99 to Amazon. Which is the better deal for me?
     
JKT
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May 30, 2007, 07:57 PM
 
Finally, I am able to buy something from iTunes Store after how many years of existence? I sincerely hope this DRM-free move by EMI is a roaring success (not just on iTunes but elsewhere as well) so that the record labels are shown up for being the complete asses they truly are.
     
Art Vandelay
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May 30, 2007, 08:24 PM
 
Keep checking for iTunes Plus updates to your library. I updated 18 songs this morning when it was first available. I checked again this afternoon and two more songs are available for updates.
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tkmd
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May 31, 2007, 12:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
Keep checking for iTunes Plus updates to your library. I updated 18 songs this morning when it was first available. I checked again this afternoon and two more songs are available for updates.
This is true- around noon I had 4 songs offered for the upgrade - by this evening it was up to seven. I think that they are adding songs all day.

But on the downside the DRMless music selection is pretty skimpy and trying to preview a song usually results in "waiting to connect..."( I think the traffic must be pretty high). Either way, I think this move by Apple will prove to be yet another nail in the coffin of DRM music.
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air
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May 31, 2007, 08:47 AM
 
I just updated and now itunes doesn't display any of my music in the library or any of my playlists, even though it "loads library" when it launches. What is going on?
     
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May 31, 2007, 08:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by air View Post
I just updated and now itunes doesn't display any of my music in the library or any of my playlists, even though it "loads library" when it launches. What is going on?
It loads the library, but the library is empty?
     
Grrr
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May 31, 2007, 09:16 AM
 
I still cant upgrage my iTunes songs to DRM free. Instead of Error -50, im now getting Error -9843

I have to say, I really hate meaningless numbered error messages. Its so "Windows".. Apple can surely do better than this!?
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May 31, 2007, 10:06 AM
 
I chose to spend the $4.50 to download about 20 songs and some videos. iTunes downloaded about half and then I think everyone else in the world tried to upgrade their library since it stopped and started giving errors.

I'll try again when I get home.
     
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May 31, 2007, 10:11 AM
 
I upgraded my few songs lastnight. No problems.
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May 31, 2007, 11:29 AM
 
I updated eighty some-odd songs and a handful of albums for under 20 bucks. I think it was kind of an impulse decision, I really can't tell the difference, but it'll be nice when I want to burn a mix CD for my sister who uses a walkman and a shuffle.

I had a few downloads that gave me an error last night but I was able to resume them all later on and had no other trouble.
     
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May 31, 2007, 11:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by dpicardi View Post
OR, if you are confident in your backup system, you can sell the CD to your friend for you (name the price).
If you are going to go this route you might as well just steal the songs off the internet and save all the money spent. When you re-sell your CD to your friend you are selling your rights to have it. If you do not remove it from your iTunes you are now pirating the music. It is no different than if your friend bought it and you made a copy.

Note - I am not condoning internet piracy, only making a point that this is the same.
     
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May 31, 2007, 11:48 AM
 
I paid to update 50 songs. It kept giving me errors on many of the songs. I quit and relaunched and now it just says my library is 'up to date' so I can't even download the remainder of the songs I paid for. What a waste of money.
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May 31, 2007, 12:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by voodoo View Post
Amazon doesn't offer instant gratification. I'd have to wait some time before getting my music from Amazon, but only a few seconds through iTMS.

It's also more work to buy, rip and sell a CD. Sure you'd perhaps save some money, but only if your time is worth nothing.

I'm going to install this update later this week when the dust has settled.

V
I'm with you.

For me the issue has always been one of convenience. It's just more convenient for me to spend a buck and instantly get my song, and not have to buy a whole album. I can count on my ten little fingers all the albums I like enough to even want, much less pay for, all the tracks.
     
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May 31, 2007, 12:50 PM
 
1st error -50, then error -9843. And now, No errors at all! "YAY!" you'd think. But no.. Although there's no errors now. Sod all actually happens. Just goes from one menu to the next without actually updating the songs.

Maybe its a glitch with the UK store? But right now, I cant say im impressed.
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May 31, 2007, 06:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by air View Post
I just updated and now itunes doesn't display any of my music in the library or any of my playlists, even though it "loads library" when it launches. What is going on?
Do you have UNO installed?
As OAW noted earlier the current version is incompatible with iTunes 7.2 and results in iTunes showing a blank window.
     
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May 31, 2007, 09:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by dpicardi View Post
Now you can rip that CD you got from Amazon at ANY bit rate (even lossless) and there is never any DRM. You never have to worry about losing your "purchases" because you have the CD. OR, if you are confident in your backup system, you can sell the CD to your friend for you (name the price).
If you sell the CD to a friend, you have no right to keep the music in your iTunes library. Legally, if you sell the CD, you give up access to the CD's contents.
     
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Jun 1, 2007, 03:18 AM
 
What sound quality level do they sell it in? MP3? Or CD quality?
     
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Jun 1, 2007, 08:29 AM
 
That's an interesting question, and it shows that you're confused about encoding formats. MP3 has nothing to do with sound quality. MP3 is just an encoding method that uses compression. The quality of the sound is wholly dependent upon the bitrate used.

Apple uses an encoding method called AAC, which is a follow-on to MP3 and is better sounding at the same bitrate (i.e., a 127kbps AAC song sounds better than a 128kbps MP3 song).

Apple's DRM protected songs are sold as 128kbps AAC. Their new non-DRM songs are 256kbps AAC. Apple's lossless codec, which is CD quality, runs about 800-900kbps (variable). CDs run at 1411kbps.
     
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Jun 1, 2007, 04:55 PM
 
If you compress an image file, you lose quality.

If you compress an audio file, you might lose quality, too. (except apple lossless, maybe). That's what I meant.

If the bitrate is so much lower, it can't give the same audio quality on playback as a CD. (And I wouldn't buy music in sub-CD quality).
     
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Jun 1, 2007, 05:08 PM
 
Yes but what Veltliner is saying is the mp3 per-say tells you nothing, you need to know the bit-rate to know whether it is cd quality or not.
     
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Jun 1, 2007, 08:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Veltliner View Post
If the bitrate is so much lower, it can't give the same audio quality on playback as a CD. (And I wouldn't buy music in sub-CD quality).
256 kBit AAC is for all intents and purposes CD-quality.
     
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Jun 2, 2007, 03:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
256 kBit AAC is for all intents and purposes CD-quality.
If you apply a lossy compression, you will lose sound quality. You can't have your cake, and...

The following article examines what I mean:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/31/te...R/LJVubnJFRtDA
     
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Jun 2, 2007, 03:42 AM
 
Excerpt from the article in the New York Times:

"Apart from bitrate, the sound quality of digital music is also affected by its format, which is determined by the software used to compress it, known as a codec. MP3 is one of the older techniques for compressing audio and is not widely used by online stores. Apple has chosen a newer format called Advanced Audio Coding (AAC), which plays on iPods and some other devices. Most other online stores use the similarly modern Windows Media Audio, or WMA, which does not play on iPods.

All three of these formats are “lossy,” meaning the encoding software surgically trims out audio information that is not easy to hear, because it is covered up by other sound or is situated at the highest and lowest ranges of human hearing."
     
 
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