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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > MS Zune chief: iPhone is a "lousy" iPod

MS Zune chief: iPhone is a "lousy" iPod
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analogue SPRINKLES
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Nov 16, 2007, 06:11 PM
 
"It’s a lousy iPod," Allard explains. "You can’t skip a track without looking at it. You can’t go running with the thing."

I seem to remember being able to double click the headphone clicker to change/pause tracks and I can't understand why he thinks you can't run with it.

MacNN | MS Zune chief: iPhone is a "lousy" iPod
     
subego
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Nov 16, 2007, 06:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
I seem to remember being able to double click the headphone clicker to change/pause tracks

Yup.
     
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Nov 16, 2007, 06:42 PM
 
What do you expect the Zune head to say about the iPhone? Balmer also dismissed it. This dude's career rides on the success of the Zune, he would be silly to praise the iPhone, even if he knows its a great device.

But sometimes its better to keep your mouth shut about things like that if you end up saying things that everyone knows is fairly ignorant. I suppose that if you aren't using Apple's earbuds (or one of the many that now include the button technology) then he has a point. But the running thing is dumb. Of course you can run with it. Its solid state, light and thin. You get an armband and you're set.

Whatever. Zune will never beat iPod. They will come in a distant 2nd. This dude is bitter, and looks like he's trying to be the MS version of Ives (bald and weird lookin).
     
ort888
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Nov 16, 2007, 06:53 PM
 
I agree that there are a few things the iPod does better then an iPhone, but this is just sour grapes.

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Nov 16, 2007, 07:12 PM
 
Since they think it's so bad, they can obviously do better? When they sell enough Zune's to be a factor in the market, THEN they can talk. Until then, they need to keep it shut and work on fixing their own issues.
     
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Nov 16, 2007, 09:50 PM
 
I'm shocked by the article. I figured the competitor of the iPod would say that the iPod is the best thing out there and there's no point in producing anything else.

Of course he's going to be critical of the iPod. His points may be valid or he may be speaking out of his but, the point remains he's going to be dismissing and criticizing it, and praising the device that he sells.
     
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Nov 17, 2007, 06:10 AM
 
I work for Target in the backroom and when I have a bad day, I always feel better when I walk by our Zune display. It is tucked in the corner and to my knowledge we have never sold a single unit. If we did sell one it would most often be my job to replace it. I laughed last week when an old lady walked by the display and giggled and called the pink smaller, more iPodish version "cute." I find great pleasure in mocking them and telling our customers that the iPod is the way to go as I direct them 10 feet away to our Pod display. I can't wait to direct people away from Microsoft's coffee table display.
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Nov 17, 2007, 08:23 AM
 
Isn't the iPhone a cell phone that also plays music? Most cell phones also play music and it wouldn't make any sense at all to say they are all lousy mp3 players. That's like saying an Aston Martin DB9 is a lousy work truck.
     
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Nov 17, 2007, 10:02 AM
 
An actual Zune user disagrees:

Originally Posted by Tycho, Penny Arcade
Since I started using the iPhone as my music device, my Zune has languished in the bottom of my Gym Bag waiting for the day when some archaeological expedition will unearth it. I was surprised to learn that new Zune branded music players had been released without making much of a ripple - the earlier iteration of the device at least warranted a snarl of derision. I really liked using it, when I had occasion to. When Apple built a very solid player into a very solid phone that I love touching, the poor thing never saw much use.

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Eug
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Nov 17, 2007, 10:14 AM
 
Biased or not, I think he's right.

The iPhone made some compromises for the sake of form over function. Personally I think it would have been better in actual usage as an iPod if they added a couple of small buttons on the side of the unit.

And I'm not alone. After the iPhone came out, many here said the same thing - too many steps to use the iPod functionality.
     
BRussell
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Nov 17, 2007, 10:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Biased or not, I think he's right.

The iPhone made some compromises for the sake of form over function. Personally I think it would have been better in actual usage as an iPod if they added a couple of small buttons on the side of the unit.

And I'm not alone. After the iPhone came out, many here said the same thing - too many steps to use the iPod functionality.
I dunno, both of the specific criticisms he made are pretty much dead false. You can skip a track without looking, and you can run with it. You can't easily use the full functionality (searching for playlists or whatever) without stopping and looking, but I'd say that's true with all iPods and music players in general.
     
analogika
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Nov 17, 2007, 10:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
And I'm not alone. After the iPhone came out, many here said the same thing - too many steps to use the iPod functionality.
No - they said that of the iPod touch. Not of the iPhone (at least not since the shortcut double-press home-button was introduced).

The volume keys and the ability to click forward and stop/start via the headset are completely sufficient IMO.

You certainly can't do anything more than that sensibly on any of the other iPods without looking (except jump *back* instead of forward, of course, but that's an omission that doesn't really matter much).

I know I certainly don't use more than that on my iPod.
     
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Nov 17, 2007, 10:59 AM
 
MS chief speaks too zune.
     
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Nov 17, 2007, 11:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
"It’s a lousy iPod," Allard explains. "You can’t skip a track without looking at it. You can’t go running with the thing."

I seem to remember being able to double click the headphone clicker to change/pause tracks and I can't understand why he thinks you can't run with it.

MacNN | MS Zune chief: iPhone is a "lousy" iPod
What headphone clicker?
     
zro
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Nov 17, 2007, 11:51 AM
 
Well, how do you change tracks on the iPhone without looking at it.

We have a 2G iPod and that was awful to use without looking at it. You couldn't get any tactile feedback without activating the "buttons." PITA. Luckily it found a happy home in the glove box of the family sedan.
( Last edited by zro; Nov 17, 2007 at 11:59 AM. )
     
mdc
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Nov 17, 2007, 11:59 AM
 
The iPhone headphones have a mic/button on the right ear piece's cable. You can press it to answer and hang up on a phonecall, and also to play/pause music. Double pressing it goes to the next track.
     
ort888
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Nov 17, 2007, 01:02 PM
 
But it doesn't do you any good if you hate iPhone earbuds.

I can't wear the things. After about 30 minutes,they start to physically hurt my ears. After an hour, it's unbearable.

Too me, he has pointed out an actual negative of the device. I think he has some small point... but to jump ahead and call it lousy, well, that's just stupid.

That's like calling a Ferarri lousy because the horn sounds funny.

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Nov 17, 2007, 04:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
But it doesn't do you any good if you hate iPhone earbuds.

I can't wear the things. After about 30 minutes,they start to physically hurt my ears. After an hour, it's unbearable.
You don't have to use the earbuds that come with the iPhone. Get yourself a pair of these:
The Apple Store (U.S.) - V-MODA VIBE Duo Earphones/Headset (Black)

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analogika
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Nov 17, 2007, 04:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
But it doesn't do you any good if you hate iPhone earbuds.
If you hate the iPhone earbuds and you're solution is to use regular headphones, you're not thinking.

Because you won't be able to use it as a phone then.


In addition to the v-modas above, the more flexible solution is the Shure headset adapter, which a) works with any headphones you want and b) includes a button which works EXACTLY the way the iPhone's included headset's does.
The Apple Store (U.S.) - Shure Music Phone Adapter for iPhone
     
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Nov 17, 2007, 04:52 PM
 
Here's the solution: http://www.shure.com/PersonalAudio/P..._phone_adapter

Any set of headphones can work as the Apple iPhone earbuds do. So, the solution is included with every iPhone (Apples headset), and if you don't like that you can buy a new solution.

His statement is false. And his running statement is false as well.
     
analogika
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Nov 17, 2007, 04:58 PM
 
You're a half-hour late.
     
Eug
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Nov 17, 2007, 05:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
No - they said that of the iPod touch. Not of the iPhone (at least not since the shortcut double-press home-button was introduced).

The volume keys and the ability to click forward and stop/start via the headset are completely sufficient IMO.

You certainly can't do anything more than that sensibly on any of the other iPods without looking (except jump *back* instead of forward, of course, but that's an omission that doesn't really matter much).

I know I certainly don't use more than that on my iPod.
I hate Apple's various headsets. I also don't like having to add those extra headsets to use your own headphones, but it's a reasonable compromise.

Yeah, the iPod touch is more crippled than the iPhone for sure. I will likely get an iPhone... but I'm still waiting for a 16 GB model.
     
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Nov 17, 2007, 05:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
You're a half-hour late.
Dang, I completely missed that post. Granted, I had just woken up so anything is possible really.
     
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Nov 17, 2007, 07:00 PM
 
Zune makes a lousy phone.

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Nov 17, 2007, 07:54 PM
 
     
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Nov 18, 2007, 01:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post


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Nov 18, 2007, 02:04 PM
 
I've not read the article, but... He's right about it being a "lousy iPod", but for all the wrong reasons.
     
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Nov 18, 2007, 06:52 PM
 
Course it's a lousy iPod it's an iPhone... seeesh, that's like saying an Xbox makes a lousy Dell.
     
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Nov 19, 2007, 03:07 PM
 
think Peter Boyle as Young Frankensteins monster looks a LOT like Balmer, especially in the "Dance Monkeyboy" days.
     
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Nov 19, 2007, 03:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cipher13 View Post
I've not read the article, but... He's right about it being a "lousy iPod", but for all the wrong reasons.
Yeah, and the iPod mini will never sell.
     
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Nov 19, 2007, 03:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
Yeah, and the iPod mini will never sell.
No, it will sell, but for all the wrong reasons.
     
analogika
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Nov 19, 2007, 04:56 PM
 
Nope.
Originally Posted by Cipher13 on the iPod mini, 01/07/04
The iPod will destroy the mini iPod in the high end market; and in the low
end market, the mini iPods price will destroy it.

I am 100% certain of this.
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Cipher13
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Nov 20, 2007, 12:41 AM
 
Haha, well, it's okay, I was right for all those years about concurrent PPC/x86 OS X development

My point was, the iPhone is a lousy iPod two reasons - space, and battery sharing. I'll get an iPhone one day but I'll definitely carry my iPod around at the same time.

The iPhone isn't *meant* to replace a high-end iPod.
     
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Nov 20, 2007, 02:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cipher13 View Post
Haha, well, it's okay, I was right for all those years about concurrent PPC/x86 OS X development

My point was, the iPhone is a lousy iPod two reasons - space, and battery sharing. I'll get an iPhone one day but I'll definitely carry my iPod around at the same time.

The iPhone isn't *meant* to replace a high-end iPod.
Precisely. Who cares whether or not the iPhone is a lousy iPod? I only care if it is or isn't a lousy phone.

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Nov 20, 2007, 04:42 AM
 
my god.... the iPhone is a good (not GREAT iPod), and a very good phone. It's also a good email device, excellent web browsing device, decent compact camera, iTunes store, calendar, dictionary, map book, weather forcaster, mobile IM client, calculator, NES emulator.... it's even a pretty good LEVEL!!!!! What the hell is there to criticize, exactly?
     
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Nov 20, 2007, 05:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Yeah, the iPod touch is more crippled than the iPhone for sure. I will likely get an iPhone... but I'm still waiting for a 16 GB model.
What is crippled about the iPod Touch exactly? I want one and absolutely do not want an iPhone due to AT&T exclusivity and due to running my battery down by listening to music, so I would like to know why it would be a bad choice?
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Nov 20, 2007, 07:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cipher13 View Post
Haha, well, it's okay, I was right for all those years about concurrent PPC/x86 OS X development
.
I think Marklar was a pretty well known substantial "rumor" at the time.
     
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Nov 20, 2007, 07:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by Aquataris View Post
What is crippled about the iPod Touch exactly? I want one and absolutely do not want an iPhone due to AT&T exclusivity and due to running my battery down by listening to music, so I would like to know why it would be a bad choice?
I have a touch and I really like it. Probably they're saying it's "crippled" because 1) it doesn't have some of the obvious software functions that the iPhone has - an email app, some of the widgets, and 2) it has no hardware control buttons. I think those are serious deficiencies, but I'm hoping the SDK in a few months will clear up the first point, and I really, really hope they get the iPod radio remote to work with the touch, so there would be decent hardware control.
     
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Nov 20, 2007, 10:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
I think Marklar was a pretty well known substantial "rumor" at the time.
It was well before that and I was criticised heavily for the belief. Possibly before your time here, really.
     
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Nov 20, 2007, 11:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post
I have a touch and I really like it. Probably they're saying it's "crippled" because 1) it doesn't have some of the obvious software functions that the iPhone has - an email app, some of the widgets, and 2) it has no hardware control buttons. I think those are serious deficiencies, but I'm hoping the SDK in a few months will clear up the first point, and I really, really hope they get the iPod radio remote to work with the touch, so there would be decent hardware control.
Also, you can't add calendar events. That's the deal breaker for me.
Anyone?
     
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Nov 20, 2007, 11:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Also, you can't add calendar events. That's the deal breaker for me.
Anyone?
It does now.

iPod Touch update lets you add calendar events
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Laminar
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Nov 20, 2007, 11:56 AM
 
Ooo...that's really really cool. I'm glad Apple got it right.
     
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Nov 20, 2007, 12:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Ooo...that's really really cool. I'm glad Apple got it right.
So if that was truly the deal-breaker for you, you should be getting one today, right?
     
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Nov 20, 2007, 12:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cipher13 View Post
It was well before that and I was criticised heavily for the belief.
What was well before that? The existence of an OS X build that ran on Intel, or your belief that it existed? The Marklar rumors started when OS X first came out as far as I can remember. The name wasn't "out" but the rumors of said x86 version of OS X was.

Though If you were criticized in here I believe you. It's just the atmosphere is built around negativity it seems..

I was told Aqua's stripes and brushed metal wasn't going anywhere once when I predicted their demise. And of course each build that came out, the stripes and bm was lessoned till now it's gone. There is a lesson there somewhere. Heck if I know what it is.
Possibly before your time here, really.
I officially started posting here in Aug of 2001

Before I was just a lurker. And since 10.0 came out in March of 2001 I was probably here. Just didn't participate in said conversation. I was up to my ears in themeing OS X at the time.
     
Laminar
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Nov 20, 2007, 12:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post
So if that was truly the deal-breaker for you, you should be getting one today, right?
I have a friend that works at the university bookstore, I had him call me the day they got them in. I went and played with the demo but couldn't quiiiite get myself to buy it. I ended up selling my desktop computer to get some money together to buy one, and I even signed up for the Amazon Visa to get $30 off, but ended up putting the money into my car instead. If Apple runs the free iPod with a new Mac deal I'll pick one up then, since my iBook G4 needs replacing.
     
Aquataris
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Nov 21, 2007, 12:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post
I have a touch and I really like it. Probably they're saying it's "crippled" because 1) it doesn't have some of the obvious software functions that the iPhone has - an email app, some of the widgets, and 2) it has no hardware control buttons. I think those are serious deficiencies, but I'm hoping the SDK in a few months will clear up the first point, and I really, really hope they get the iPod radio remote to work with the touch, so there would be decent hardware control.
Thanks, those things don't concern me all that much, considering all I have is a 1 gig Nano 2nd Gen. I'll probably end up getting it soon and selling my 1 gig which would be flawless in appearance if it weren't for factory caused scratches all over the scrollwheel. It came in a box before they had the clear cases so I couldn't see it's condition. I'm not much of a re-seller but I bet I can maybe get $30 to $50 for it. Of course, if this is an over or under estimation it's because I never sell things and haven't really checked on what used ones typically go for.
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