[L'enfanTerrible]

Come you masters of war,
you that build all the guns.
You that build the death planes,
you that build all the bombs.

You that hide behind walls
you that hide behind desks.
I just want you to know I can see through your masks.

You that never done nothing
but to build and destroy.
You play with my world like it's your little toy

You put a gun in my hand
then you hide from my eyes
then you turn and run farther when the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of ole',
you lie and decieve.
A world war can be won
you want me to believe.

But I see thru your eyes,
and I see through your brain
like I see through the water that runs down my drain.

You that fasten all the triggers
for the others to fire.
Then you set back and watch
while the death count gets higher.

You hide in your mansion
while young peoples blood
flows out of their bodies and is buried in the mud.

You've thrown the worst fear
that could ever be hurled:
the fear to bring children
into this world.

For threatening my baby,
unborn and unnamed,
you ain't worth the blood that runs in your veins.

How much do I know..
to talk out of turn?
You might say that I'm young,
you might say I'm unlearned.

But there's one thing I know,
though I'm younger than you:
even Jesus would never forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question.
Is your money that good?
Will it buy you forgiveness?
Do you think that it could?

Oh, I think you will find
when your death takes its toll
all the money you've made will never buy back your soul.

And I hope that you die,
and your death'll come soon.
I will follow your casket
in the pale afternoon.

And I'll watch as your lowered
into your deathbead.
And I'll stand o'er your grave till I'm sure that you're dead


~~~
~~~
[edit: whoops forgot to mention this is a Bob Dylan song]

Some of the lyrics really strike me as things that people in this very forum have said.

"You might say that I'm young, you might say I'm unlearned."

haha, someone said this to me today

I may be young but it doesn't change the fact that Bush, his administration, and his apologists are all chicken-hawk, silverspoon sucking hypocrites who will send people to their deaths for the almighty dollar.

[voodoo]

Ooh yeah! I had this song on a bootleg Pearl Jam CD. Damn good song. And so true.

...even Jesus would never forgive what you do.

[L'enfanTerrible]

Originally posted by voodoo:
Ooh yeah! I had this song on a bootleg Pearl Jam CD. Damn good song. And so true.

...even Jesus would never forgive what you do.

Heh, thats the version I have too. It's just Eddie Vedder and Mike McCready at the Bob Dylan 30th Anniversary Concert.

I've uploaded a version, you can listen to it here. Have a listen.

Pearl Jam is sweet

[fulmer]

yet another thread talking abou the same stuff: bush, US, war, and on and on and on and on.

I suggested this some time ago--make yourself a general thead, call it whatever you want, then post--every day or whenever the fit takes you--all the stuff about how you hate Bush and America and capitalism and all the other subjects you talk about but argue poorly in favour of. then we don't have to have 10 new threads a day on the same stuff as yesterday.

[arrested502]

Good lyrics. Very poetic and true. I never really followed Dylan (a bit before my "time") but I may have to look into it.

Originally posted by fulmer:
Yet another thread talking abou the same stuff: bush, US, war, and on and on and on and on.

I suggested this some time ago--make yourself a general thead, call it whatever you want, then post--every day or whenever the fit takes you--all the stuff about how you hate Bush and America and capitalism and all the other subjects you talk about but argue poorly in favour of. then we don't have to have 10 new threads a day on the same stuff as yesterday.

With all due respect, I didn't read anything in L'enfanT's post that pointed towards Bush or anti-capitalism. Sometimes it's refreshing not to point the finger, but post a little more philosophically. In the end our own viewpoint of the world is all we have to lean-on.

Good work L'enfanT, that really makes me think.

[L'enfanTerrible]

Originally posted by fulmer:
yet another thread talking abou the same stuff: bush, US, war, and on and on and on and on.

I suggested this some time ago--make yourself a general thead, call it whatever you want, then post--every day or whenever the fit takes you--all the stuff about how you hate Bush and America and capitalism and all the other subjects you talk about but argue poorly in favour of. then we don't have to have 10 new threads a day on the same stuff as yesterday.

Ad hominem...

Could you exagerate any more? How about you stick to talking about J Lo or one of Ca$h's inane topics? You're going to give yourself an ulcer.

[wtfwasibanned68]

Originally posted by L'enfanTerrible:
I may be young but it doesn't change the fact that Bush, his administration, and his apologists are all chicken-hawk, silverspoon sucking hypocrites who will send people to their deaths for the almighty dollar.

Ah yes little one. Soon you shall also realize that the Clinton Gore administration also ****ed this country pretty badly. Osama attacked the united states THREE TIMES during Clintons reign, and he did ... NOTHING. The 4th was successful. If Clinton had not been such a pussy (instead of always trying to get it) perhaps the whole 'sept 11th/terrorism/patriot act/middle east crisis/war against iraq'-thing could have been avoided.

- Ca$h

PS: Vote 3rd party. Doesn't matter what or who.

[fulmer]

Originally posted by L'enfanTerrible:


Ad hominem...

Could you exagerate any more?

first, learn how to use the expression correctly. ad hominem is "a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument."

I presented no argument nor sought to reject any argument based on any aspect, characteristic, or fact about yourself.

I was using hyperbole (definition found here ) to point out the numerous, repetitive posts every day around here from the usual suspects.

And cpt obvious said it best just yesterday:

Actually my problem lies with community college drop outs who really don't know much about anything yet have to keep talking to fill their time. You know there's a reason they don't have idiots like you on Nightline or Meet the Press. All your opinions are useless and misinformed. Go back to school, finish up your degree in Art History and go bounce around France trying to be more enlightened and then come back. Hopefully by then you can pull your head out of your @ss.

and for real examples of ad hominem, we need look no further than your recent posts:

El Pre$, what's up with Doctor Dubious and his inane rants about going over the same things day in and day out? I checked the records and we've never talked about corporate mercenaries before. What do you think his problem is? Small wanker? Perhaps...

and

Nah, this deserves the customary go f�ck yourself u arrogant tw�t

I will never be a guest on Nightline or Meet the Press. I'll be the one asking the questions. And then you can kiss my �ss while you sit in your sh�tty apartment posting rubbish about people you've never met..

Let us know how your University Career went.. How many PhD's did you get Doctor Dubious?

and

Who are you, and why are you replying to this post?

Once again this forum doesn't fail to provide arseholes who flame people they don't know when they couldn't possibly understand whats going on.

Go buy a coke, mofo

and

Thats why you are losers. Mitchell, and Dubious.

That's just from one topic.

now really, are we done here?

[L'enfanTerrible]

What is your point? If you're trying to say that Clinton is as bad as Bush, you are going to need a few more examples.


I agree Clinton could have done more. But as far as I'm concerned Bush is not doing anything to end terrorism. He might end the al-Qaeda, that his predecessors endorsed, but he won't end terrorism as long as American Will is enforced on other cultures in violent ways. A good example is Israel/Palestine.


Osama Bin Laden should be caught and tried, hell so should Saddam. This doesn't shine well on the people who supported and trained those two war-lords. Such as the CIA.

[voodoo]

I think it's pretty strange a russian is such an avid (read: blind) Bush apologist and a Republican. Sick really, fulmer.

PS. Thanks for the mp3 LeEnfan Terible!

[wtfwasibanned68]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by L'enfanTerrible:
What is your point? If you're trying to say that Clinton is as bad as Bush, you are going to need a few more examples.

Bosnia. Good enough? Great.

I'll ask some examples of why you think Bush is that bad. So far I think we're going to war, however, I don't really see that as being Bush's fault. Clinton didn't have the WTC/Pentagon thing on his hands, or he would have tried to go to war also.


I agree Clinton could have done more. But as far as I'm concerned Bush is not doing anything to end terrorism. He might end the al-Qaeda, that his predecessors endorsed, but he won't end terrorism as long as American Will is enforced on other cultures in violent ways. A good example is Israel/Palestine.

Done more? He didn't do ANYTHING. And no, bush won't 'end' terrorism. Nothing will really 'end' terrorism as long as we have religon screwing things up in this world.

- Ca$h

[fulmer]

Originally posted by L'enfanTerrible:
he won't end terrorism as long as American Will is enforced on other cultures in violent ways. A good example is Israel/Palestine.

how is this a good example of the US forcing its will on others? That problem is one that has been 'officially' ongoing since May 14, 1948.

[L'enfanTerrible]

Fulmer, this is to you. And it is not ad hominem.


I do know how to properly use the term. It isn't my fault you don't understand that what you say, and what Cpt. Oblivious say are in fact, although on a subtle level, directed as personal attacks on myself, sometimes El Pre$, and others as well..

For example:

Fulmer:
yet another thread talking abou the same stuff: bush, US, war, and on and on and on and on.

I suggested this some time ago--make yourself a general thead, call it whatever you want, then post--every day or whenever the fit takes you--all the stuff about how you hate Bush and America and capitalism and all the other subjects you talk about but argue poorly in favour of. then we don't have to have 10 new threads a day on the same stuff as yesterday.

and....

Cpt. Oblivious
Actually my problem lies with community college drop outs who really don't know much about anything yet have to keep talking to fill their time. You know there's a reason they don't have idiots like you on Nightline or Meet the Press. All your opinions are useless and misinformed. Go back to school, finish up your degree in Art History and go bounce around France trying to be more enlightened and then come back. Hopefully by then you can pull your head out of your @ss.

Fulmer, the irony of your statements is priceless. Giving me a lecture on proper usage, and in your own post, you show the perfect example of ad hominem without even knowing it.

As for Cpt Oblivious, his rants about myself, his opinions about me or what medication he presumes I take, is getting really tired. Hell he's said it about ten times. And thats not hyperbole.

Oh by the way, you're a tool

Now we're done.

[fulmer]

Originally posted by voodoo:
I think it's pretty strange a russian is such an avid (read: blind) Bush apologist and a Republican. Sick really, fulmer.

I'm the farthest thing from a Bush apologist. I don't think he's very bright, Ashcroft (a Bush apointee) I despise, and I routine criticise him on a number of issues (though usually not here).

And I hate the Republican party. In fact, I hate the Democratic party, too. With a passion--both of them.

can you please quote me on previous pro-Bush or pro-Republican comments? I don't think you'll find many, for the reasons I stated above: both parties suck, and the Bush admin has *numerous* shortcomings.

[fulmer]

you still haven't answered my previous post about Israel and the Palestinians.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. you post and post and make all kinds of accusations, and then when someone challenges you, you lash out against them, without backing up your original diatribes.

all I want is for you, kelly, et al to think before you post, then back it up with facts, not heresay or diversion via personal attacks (like dismissing someone's comments, then suggesting that they have a 'small wanker').

my rationale is very clear here. now I'm abandoning this topic because further debate would just involve repeating myself (yes, your replies are indeeed that cookie-cutter/knee-jerk/predictable).

[voodoo]

Originally posted by fulmer:


I'm the farthest thing from a Bush apologist. I don't think he's very bright, Ashcroft (a Bush apointee) I despise, and I routine criticise him on a number of issues (though usually not here).

And I hate the Republican party. In fact, I hate the Democratic party, too. With a passion--both of them.

can you please quote me on previous pro-Bush or pro-Republican comments? I don't think you'll find many, for the reasons I stated above: both parties suck, and the Bush admin has *numerous* shortcomings.

I am sorry if I misjudged you fulmer. If you are not a blind Bush-ist it sure sounds like you subscribe to their rhetorics in any case. War is justifiable, America uber alles, Isreal good/palestine bad, NRA good etc etc.

[L'enfanTerrible]

Originally posted by fulmer:
you still haven't answered my previous post about Israel and the Palestinians.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. you post and post and make all kinds of accusations, and then when someone challenges you, you lash out against them, without backing up your original diatribes.

all I want is for you, kelly, et al to think before you post, then back it up with facts, not heresay or diversion via personal attacks (like dismissing someone's comments, then suggesting that they have a 'small wanker').

my rationale is very clear here. now I'm abandoning this topic because further debate would just involve repeating myself (yes, your replies are indeeed that cookie-cutter/knee-jerk/predictable).

I'm sorry, I was a little preoccupied. Really, if you want to accuse me of not thinking before I post then I hope you won't use the length of time it takes me to reply to one of your "challenges" as an argument. Here you go:

Fulmer:

how is this a good example of the US forcing its will on others? That problem is one that has been 'officially' ongoing since May 14, 1948.

Well since Israel's inception again in 1948, America has been supportive of their cause to keep their homeland. Where have you been?

Two articles. one two..

But you won't read them anyway.