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TheMosco · Oct 2, 2008, 09:11 AM

What do people think it going to happen? Will Sarah Palin prove critics wrong and show she play in the big leagues or will she continue to be the master of the non-answer? Will Biden prove critics wrong and put together thoughtful remarks, or will he end up with his foot in his mouth?

TheMosco · Oct 2, 2008, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by TheMosco

What do people think it going to happen? Will Sarah Palin prove critics wrong and show she play in the big leagues or will she continue to be the master of the non-answer? Will Biden prove critics wrong and put together thoughtful remarks, or will he end up with his foot in his mouth?

Personally, I think Palin has more to win/lose here. It seems like the conservative love affair with her is running out, and this could be the straw that breaks the camels back.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1001/p09s01-coop.html

There is an article from someone who has debated her before.

If Biden can just get through without saying something completely stupid, I think he can take this.

Eug · Oct 2, 2008, 09:19 AM

If Palin manages to do just OK, that will be a win for her.

If Biden manages to do just OK, that will be a loss for him.

IMO.

Dakar V · Oct 2, 2008, 09:21 AM

I agree with Eug. It doesn't seem like the Republicans made a conscious effort to lower expectations, but I think the Couric interviews may have unwittingly done just that.

Atheist · Oct 2, 2008, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by TheMosco

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1001/p09s01-coop.html

There is an article from someone who has debated her before.

How can you argue with this:

Originally Posted by Sarah Palin

Andrew, I watch you at these debates with no notes, no papers, and yet when asked questions, you spout off facts, figures, and policies, and I'm amazed. But then I look out into the audience and I ask myself, 'Does any of this really matter?'

Dork. · Oct 2, 2008, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by TheMosco

If Biden can just get through without saying something completely stupid, I think he can take this.

This is Joe Biden we're talking about here. He has a tendency to have his mouth run faster than his brain. A perfectly reasonable trait for a legislator, but one he'll need to keep in check in this debate.

I found your linked article very interesting, btw.

ort888 · Oct 2, 2008, 10:14 AM

The debate is about 2 miles from my house. I'll let you all know how it goes. I'll have my ears tuned into the buzz on "the streets".

shabbasuraj · Oct 2, 2008, 10:37 AM

=

OreoCookie · Oct 2, 2008, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Eug

If Palin manages to do just OK, that will be a win for her.

If Biden manages to do just OK, that will be a loss for him.

Good point, it's all about expectations.
These debates are so well-choreographed and -prepared that not much exciting stuff can happen (unless somebody screws up, of course). The choice of moderators, the type of questions, etc., everything is scripted and agreed upon.

RAILhead · 11:57 AM

Palin = a derailed train equals what? I mean, if you meant train wreck, you wouldn't have posted a pic of a simple derail...

Eug · Oct 2, 2008, 11:10 AM

Please ignore. Wrong thread.

Dakar V · Oct 2, 2008, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Palin + a derailed train equals what?

He put '=', not '+'

shabbasuraj · Oct 2, 2008, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Good point, it's all about expectations.
These debates are so well-choreographed and -prepared that not much exciting stuff can happen (unless somebody screws up, of course). The choice of moderators, the type of questions, etc., everything is scripted and agreed upon.

what they need is a face-to-face debate.. a la Canada.

Makes for a very interesting dynamic.

Eug · Oct 2, 2008, 11:16 AM

The problem is there are not enough candidates. ie. There are only 2 in the US.

shabbasuraj · Oct 2, 2008, 11:18 AM

Back on topic.. Biden should be chompin at the bit for tonight. (he should be envisioning internet Palin FAIL pics.)

olePigeon · Oct 2, 2008, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Sarah Palin

Andrew, I watch you at these debates with no notes, no papers, and yet when asked questions, you spout off facts, figures, and policies, and I'm amazed. But then I look out into the audience and I ask myself, "Does any of this really matter?"

Uh oh.

olePigeon · Oct 2, 2008, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by shabbasuraj

Back on topic.. Biden should be chompin at the bit for tonight. (he should be envisioning internet Palin FAIL pics.)

"Moderator, if I may. I brought a PowerPoint slide show. I'd like to show a series of hilarious cat images and pictures subtext with "Fail" on them. I assure you, they're quite relevant to the debate."

Eug · Oct 2, 2008, 12:26 PM

I'd actually watch that, if I didn't already frequent the www.icanhascheezburger.com and www.failblog.org websites.

Paco500 · Oct 2, 2008, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by railhead

palin = a derailed train equals what? I mean, if you meant train wreck, you wouldn't have posted a pic of a simple derail...

oooooohhhhh......BURN!!!!

BRussell · Oct 2, 2008, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

If Palin manages to do just OK, that will be a win for her.

If Biden manages to do just OK, that will be a loss for him.

IMO.

Yeah, and how ridiculous is that? If a sports team is expected to beat another by 50 points, is it counted as a loss if they only win by 20?

But of course that's how the media sees things. I think by the end of it, Palin will be widely said to have won. The way the media "scores" these debates, one-line zingers are all that matters, and we know Palin can deliver those. She'll have some dumb prepared one-liner that the media can play over and over, and it doesn't matter if her substantive answers for the other 89 minutes and 45 seconds are utterly vapid, as we all know they will be.

Dakar V · Oct 2, 2008, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by BRussell

Yeah, and how ridiculous is that? If a sports team is expected to beat another by 50 points, is it counted as a loss if they only win by 20?

By perception, yes. It happens in the NBA.

nonhuman · Oct 2, 2008, 01:30 PM

I'm really looking forward to this debate (not the least because we'll be watching it during our belated Rosh Hashana celebration so I'll be chowing down on Matzo Ball soup and Kugel). While I'm not really a Palin fan, I do think that her treatment by the Democrats has been a bit unfair. Certainly there have been exagerations and outright lies about some of her positions and beliefs (and equally certainly she has some positions and beliefs that fly flagrantly in the face of Democratic policies), and hopefully this will be a chance for her to clear the air in that regard. Of course it's all for naught if can't string a sentance together and I, for one, am disgusted by the way that she, and Bush before her, are promoting the dumbing down of public discource and, frankly, insulting the intelligence of the average American.

Sayf-Allah · Oct 2, 2008, 01:38 PM

What time does the debate start and is there anywhere you can watch it online?

Eug · Oct 2, 2008, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by BRussell

Yeah, and how ridiculous is that? If a sports team is expected to beat another by 50 points, is it counted as a loss if they only win by 20?

I guess you've never heard of point spreads for sports betting? They're exactly that.

If the Democrat Rams are favoured to win by 50 points, and you bet on them, but they only beat the the Republican Packers by 20 points, then you lose your money.

Remember, the GOP never selected Palin because she's a master detail-oriented debater. They selected her because she resonates with a certain demographic. If she can simply keep up more or less in the debate, then that might just be good enough.

shabbasuraj · Oct 2, 2008, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

"Moderator, if I may. I brought a PowerPoint slide show. I'd like to show a series of hilarious cat images and pictures subtext with "Fail" on them. I assure you, they're quite relevant to the debate."

if so....

BIDEN FOR PREZ

LOL

BRussell · Oct 2, 2008, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

I guess you've never heard of point spreads for sports betting? They're exactly that.

If the Democrat Rams are favoured to win by 50 points, and you bet on them, but they only beat the the Republican Packers by 20 points, then you lose your money.

Remember, the GOP never selected Palin because she's a master detail-oriented debater. They selected her because she resonates with a certain demographic. If she can simply keep up more or less in the debate, then that might just be good enough.

I certainly understand it, I just reject it when it applies to politics. Hopefully we want the better candidate in an absolute sense, not just someone who beats the low expectations people have about them.

And these expectations are often just BS created by the campaigns and their dutiful lapdogs in our media, rather than based on any reality. And they always seem to favor Republicans (by that I mean, expectations are always low for Republicans and high for Democrats).

nonhuman · Oct 2, 2008, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by BRussell

I certainly understand it, I just reject it when it applies to politics. Hopefully we want the better candidate in an absolute sense, not just someone who beats the low expectations people have about them.

Sadly, it appears that 'we' don't. Instead we want 'our team' to win no matter how much we have to redefine 'winning' in order to do so and we don't care what players are on our team so long as they wear our colors (and win).

Eug · Oct 2, 2008, 02:01 PM

BRussell, That might be what you want, but that's missing the point. The point is that they're going after the broader electorate not just you. Not everyone thinks the same way you do. Remember, much of this is just a popularity contest. So if she's "popular" and can "resonate with J6P", then a mere "adequate" performance may be all that's needed to get people to vote for her, especially if Biden doesn't do much better in the debate.

Things would be different though if Palin comes off as completely out of her league as she did in some parts of the TV interviews. ie. If she does that again too much, and Biden is on the top of his game, then Palin would have lost by those requisite 50 points.

Paco500 · Oct 2, 2008, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by BRussell

expectations are always low for Republicans and high for Democrats

Well said.

RAILhead · Oct 2, 2008, 02:43 PM

I hope she wears a skirt, too.

/just sayin'

shabbasuraj · Oct 2, 2008, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by RAILhead

I hope she wears a skirt, too.

/just sayin'

fail

stumblinmike · Oct 2, 2008, 09:11 PM

Ms. Palin has a kickin' hairstyle, but she MUST get that bang hair out of her left eye! It hurts me to watch it!

stumblinmike · Oct 2, 2008, 09:14 PM

Also, I will admit she's very folksy. Joe Sixpack, the Hockey Moms, she nails the RIGHT keywords.

Sealobo · Oct 2, 2008, 09:37 PM

Sarah Palin is a major question-dodger.

stumblinmike · Oct 2, 2008, 09:38 PM

But, she's major league perky!

Sealobo · Oct 2, 2008, 09:43 PM

i had goosebumps when Sarah Palin blinked to the camera... geez.

ebuddy · Oct 2, 2008, 09:49 PM

I'm not sure I can watch anymore.

TheMosco · Oct 2, 2008, 09:54 PM

She is waaaaaaaaaaaay out of her league.

ironknee · Oct 2, 2008, 09:54 PM

every blink makes baby jesus cry

stupendousman · Oct 2, 2008, 10:05 PM

I'm just glad to see that Joe is still all for the Bozniacs.

I hear they are a clean, sharp people who work on their pecs.

Ghoser777 · Oct 2, 2008, 10:22 PM

Woah... JB just got chocked up.

OAW · Oct 2, 2008, 10:24 PM

Did this woman just say that she wasn't going to answer the question that Biden or the moderator posed to her? The one about McCain across the board supporting the deregulation that got the US economy into this mess. And then just launch into a rehearsed speech about what she did as mayor.

Wooooooooow!

OAW

stupendousman · Oct 2, 2008, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by OAW

Did this woman just say that she wasn't going to answer the question that Biden or the moderator posed to her?

Which was it?

The one about McCain across the board supporting the deregulation that got the US economy into this mess.

Did she also refuse to answer questions about why McCain ate babies during fundraisers? I bet Joe would have been really interested had those been Bozniac babies.

Ghoser777 · Oct 2, 2008, 10:30 PM

It's actually Bosniak.

SpaceMonkey · Oct 2, 2008, 10:32 PM

TOUCHDOWN!!!

...oh, wrong sport?

stumblinmike · Oct 2, 2008, 10:32 PM

She mentioned Ronald Reagan, TWICE!!! She wins.

OAW · Oct 2, 2008, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by stupendousman

Which was it?

It was both. The moderator asked a question about deregulation. She never answered and just rattled on about taxes. Biden pointed it out that she never answered the questions. And then she said what I pointed out earlier.

OAW

stupendousman · Oct 2, 2008, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by Ghoser777

It's actually Bosniak.

Only the muslims.

OAW · Oct 2, 2008, 10:40 PM

The average healthcare plan costs approx. 12K per family for employers that buy in bulk for all their employees. The McCain plan would give us a 5K tax credit to purchase our own. Individually with no volume discount. And then it would treat employer provided healthcare benefits as income. Gee. Thanks.

OAW

SpaceMonkey · Oct 2, 2008, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by OAW

The average healthcare plan costs approx. 12K per family for employers that buy in bulk for all their employees. The McCain plan would give us a 5K tax credit to purchase our own. Individually with no volume discount. And then it would treat employer provided healthcare benefits as income. Gee. Thanks.

What, didn't you hear "tax credit"? That automatically makes it a good plan.