[Cipher13]

Originally posted by denim:


Never heard of peer pressure, huh? And it's the tobacco companies which started the "it's cool!" thing. It's not enough for them to stop saying that, as it's self-perpetuating. They have to actively counteract that message.

"Peer pressure" is a poor excuse for being weak minded; having no resolve.

Nobody here has any right to deny anybody else of something like cigarettes, or alcohol.

Try your best - it won't work.

[denim]

Originally posted by Thrax:
I fail to see how the visibility factor makes a difference. Cigarettes are behind counters so children cannot get their hands on them. There are no compelling images on the packaging to make children want them; Joe Camel is long gone.

And you're ignoring the part about peer pressure and the assertion that the "coolness" message, which the tobacco companies started, is self-perpetuating and they have to stomp on it.

And those "Truth" ads were funded by the tobacco companies. I think you like them so much because the early ones villified the tobacco companies - which got them sued by the tobacco companies.

Got it in one. Very good.

Yes, they're still sold. Yes, they're dangerous. So is alcohol. That was outlawed once and we know what that lead to.

I said nothing about making them illegal. I said I didn't want them sold.

Just what made the tobacco companies admit that tobacco is dangerous and addictive does not matter.

I see. So being forced to stop is somehow the same as voluntarily admitting guilt. So there's no difference between convicts and people who go to confession.

If you want to villify them because of the reason why they changed their ways, you might as well go after Waste Management for only changing its accounting practices because it was caught by the SEC.

You sure do like bringing up totally irrelevant stuff, you know?

Problems in accounting practices are not in the same universe as knowingly killing hundreds of thousands each year for over 30 years. Would like to try again?

[denim]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
"Peer pressure" is a poor excuse for being weak minded; having no resolve.

Explain that to the people who try again and again but are repeatedly defeated by the actual active chemical addiction action in their bodies. Addiction has been shown to have a physical aspect. While some people are more susceptible to that than others, blaming the more susceptible for being what they are is hardly useful. Or would you prefer they all just jumped off high buildings?

You're a very prolific poster here, Cipher, but you're acting like you have no real understanding of what you're talking about.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by denim:


Explain that to the people who try again and again but are repeatedly defeated by the actual active chemical addiction action in their bodies. Addiction has been shown to have a physical aspect. While some people are more susceptible to that than others, blaming the more susceptible for being what they are is hardly useful. Or would you prefer they all just jumped off high buildings?

You're a very prolific poster here, Cipher, but you're acting like you have no real understanding of what you're talking about.

I think it's more the fact that you don't *like* what I'm saying than anything else.

I mean nobody any offense when I say this, and no, I'm not suggesting anybody jump off buildings - but mind over matter is all there is to it.

I have no doubt that there's a chemical side to addiction - it can still be beaten with enough resolve. Your body doesn't suddenly *require* nicotine to survive - it just wants it. It may make it harder to quit, but on another note, they never should have started in the first place - that argument nullifies your "chemical side of addiction" argument, as you can't be chemically addicted to something you've never had. Where was their mental strength and resolve when they first accepted, or bought, cigarettes? Nowhere nearby, I don't think.

[denim]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Where was their mental strength and resolve when they first accepted, or bought, cigarettes? Nowhere nearby, I don't think.

You mean you -do- think, I suspect, and I can't argue with what you've said here.

I say that while sitting here wanting munchies, but also saying that I still have almost 100lbs left to shed. It's just that it's nothing like easy.

[swimp]

Originally posted by L'enfanTerrible:


I'm honoured that your first post was in my thread.. welcome to the board

Heh, thanks