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Windows on a Mac Pro (Page 2)
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Administrator  Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
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Can we get back on topic? There have been tons of discussions about whether Apple should/shouldn't, will/won't, etc. allow OS X to be sold for non Macs. This forum is supposed to be about running something other than OS X on Macs...
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Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
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Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Well I can definitely confirm you do not need boot camp if you install windows on a separate hard disk on the Mac Pro. I am using windows now on a separate hard drive. Worked fine and for some reason installed MUCH faster onto this new disk than onto the boot camp partition.
Very smart apple. Two computers in one!
Den
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Fresh-Faced Recruit
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The only thing that is not working is audio - anyone any idea?
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Fresh-Faced Recruit
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Senior User
Join Date: May 2001
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Originally Posted by Sman55
The only thing that is not working is audio - anyone any idea?
Did you install the drivers?
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Fresh-Faced Recruit
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yes, chipset drivers, graphics, networking (all mentioned on ars tecnica) and audio...still downloading the audio. Will let you know!
Den
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Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Rochester, MN USA
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They sabotaged it once before. Remember the Motorola, Umax and Power Computing Mac clones? Those were some bad days.
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Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Mar 2002
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The audio driver won't install cause it says I need microsoft bus bridge. Since I don't know what mother board apple use, I am a bit stumped here!
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Fresh-Faced Recruit
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Well having installed xp on another drive and it working well, I removed bootcamp from 1st drive and the second disk with xp then failed to boot. It seems you need boot camp on the first drive with windows to allow a second drive to boot in windows. So you do seem to need bootcamp after all.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Why wouldn't you want to have BootCamp? BootCamp provides the EFI -> fake BIOS bridge that is necessary to get Windows running.
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"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
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Administrator Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
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Originally Posted by Big Mac
Why wouldn't you want to have BootCamp? BootCamp provides the EFI -> fake BIOS bridge that is necessary to get Windows running.
Nope. The firmware does that-that's what the special firmware updated needed by the first Intel Macs was for. What Boot Camp does is partition your hard drive for dual use, and provide Windows drivers for your Mac's hardware. But this is very important, because first it provides drivers for your specific Mac's hardware, and second it provides Windows XP + SP2-specific drivers. This is one reason you CANNOT use anything less than SP + SP2 with Boot Camp. And since the hardware in your Mac is slightly different from what the PC world sees (there's still not much entirely PCI-express-based hardware out there in the PC world), you need special drivers.
Bottom line: Boot Camp is very useful and almost totally necessary for the majority of Intel Macs to run Windows. If you have a Mac Pro, for which there are as yet NO released Boot Camp drivers, you're in a different situation. For all other Intel Macs, Boot Camp is pretty much IT for natively running Windows.
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Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
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Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Rochester, MN USA
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I've been following this thread and there seems to be some trouble understanding what is being said here.
PLEASE LISTEN CAREFULLY!
If you have an Intel Mac and it is NOT a Mac Pro: YOU NEED BOOTCAMP or PARALLELS software
If you HAVE a Mac Pro: You don't need bootcamp, but you want to use a second hard drive to load windows on. You will be missing Mac Pro specific drivers. Keep watching for these drivers to show up. I'm sure they'll be information about them soon. From what is said above, Parallels doesn't work with the Mac Pro yet. I'm sure that will be fixed soon too.
This information all comes from what is said above. I hope that helps make it clear for everybody.
As said above, this is all off the topic which is, "should Apple license OS X for regular PCs". In some sense, they did this in the past when they allowed other companies to make generic Macs. They were some of the worst Macs ever and it almost ran Apple into bankruptcy (does anybody remember $13/share?). Since they put Jobs back at the helm, he tried to re-negotiate their terrible policy with the clone makers, which failed, so he killed it. They got rid of the Macs Clones and then started OS X (by scavenging NEXT). Since then their shares have split twice (at about $80/share each time) and could split again if they could keep the value up there. It just shows how bad their agreement was with the Mac Clone companies.
My second point is: Apple computers are built very solid. Example: the Apple computers back then (in the clone days) had 3 card slots, because that is what worked 100% of the time. The clones put out computers with 4, 5 and I think even 6(?) slots. They ran terrible. I hated working on them because they had so many problems that were unsolvable without replacing the computer itself. It was a lot like working on PCs. The Clone makers made cruddy computers that were cheap and people bought them and expected them to work like a Mac. They didn't.
I hope they never open it up. Just buy a Mac. Windows users expect problems and errors and they live with them. Mac users don't, and when they experience them they call people like me. I want my job to stay simple. Please don't put OS X on Dells. I don't want to deal with that.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: 33-37-22.350N / 111-54-37.920W
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Originally Posted by Deal
I've been following this thread and there seems to be some trouble understanding what is being said here.
PLEASE LISTEN CAREFULLY!
If you have an Intel Mac and it is NOT a Mac Pro: YOU NEED BOOTCAMP or PARALLELS software
If you HAVE a Mac Pro: You don't need bootcamp, but you want to use a second hard drive to load windows on. You will be missing Mac Pro specific drivers. Keep watching for these drivers to show up. I'm sure they'll be information about them soon. From what is said above, Parallels doesn't work with the Mac Pro yet. I'm sure that will be fixed soon too.
This information all comes from what is said above. I hope that helps make it clear for everybody.
As said above, this is all off the topic which is, "should Apple license OS X for regular PCs". In some sense, they did this in the past when they allowed other companies to make generic Macs. They were some of the worst Macs ever and it almost ran Apple into bankruptcy (does anybody remember $13/share?). Since they put Jobs back at the helm, he tried to re-negotiate their terrible policy with the clone makers, which failed, so he killed it. They got rid of the Macs Clones and then started OS X (by scavenging NEXT). Since then their shares have split twice (at about $80/share each time) and could split again if they could keep the value up there. It just shows how bad their agreement was with the Mac Clone companies.
My second point is: Apple computers are built very solid. Example: the Apple computers back then (in the clone days) had 3 card slots, because that is what worked 100% of the time. The clones put out computers with 4, 5 and I think even 6(?) slots. They ran terrible. I hated working on them because they had so many problems that were unsolvable without replacing the computer itself. It was a lot like working on PCs. The Clone makers made cruddy computers that were cheap and people bought them and expected them to work like a Mac. They didn't.
I hope they never open it up. Just buy a Mac. Windows users expect problems and errors and they live with them. Mac users don't, and when they experience them they call people like me. I want my job to stay simple. Please don't put OS X on Dells. I don't want to deal with that.
+1 
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Mac Pro 3.0, ATI 5770 1GB VRAM, 10GB, 2xVelociraptor boot RAID, 4.5TB RAID0 storage, 30" & 20" Apple displays.
2 x Macbook Pro's 17" 3.06 4 GB RAM, 256GB Solid State drives
iMac 17" Core Duo 1GB RAM, & 2 iPhones 8GB, and a Nano in a pear tree!
Apple user since 1981
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Deal, gb, others: many thanks
My head hurts and its swelling up!!
my MacPro arrives next week. I set up a MacBook w bootcamp and have XP/SP2 on it. I also have the drivers Apple supplied with BootCamp.
Soooooo:
I get a 2d HD. I put XP CD in MacPro and tell it after I figure out WindowSpeek to put that on my "Other" drive.
type in all that serial and cereal number stuff.
Then: can i add the BootCamp drivers Ive already burrned?
if this has been coverd above my appologies! but I did preface with my swelling head in great pain!
now:
what are these windows drivers for? Priinting? USB stuff? what are these 'drivers' and what do they do?
remember Im not a windows person ( God does love them I suppose)
cheers
rotuts
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MacPro 2.66 dual 3GB RAM 1.5 TB HD's
24" + 21" Samsung flat panels
Miglia mini HD (Great!)
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Originally Posted by rotuts
Remember Im not a windows person ( God does love them I suppose)
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Administrator Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
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rotuts, you don't need the Boot Camp drivers-they don't support the Mac Pro anyway (unless version 1.1-just out!-has added Mac Pro drivers). The drivers are for the hardware like the video card, sound card, and so on in the other Intel Macs.
It's pretty simple to tell the Windows installer which drive to install on, by the way-it will offer to install on ANY of the drives on your computer. You just choose the new, completely empty one that you just installed-and it will be obvious which drive already has OS X on it...
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Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Ok gh and erik
as BC1.1 just came out and ill get me comp next week i might just try that as its supposed to work with the MPro
save a lot of disk space
cheers and thanks
rotut
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MacPro 2.66 dual 3GB RAM 1.5 TB HD's
24" + 21" Samsung flat panels
Miglia mini HD (Great!)
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: 33-37-22.350N / 111-54-37.920W
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THIS arstechnica review of the Pro has a section where he installed XP.. might make a good read.
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Mac Pro 3.0, ATI 5770 1GB VRAM, 10GB, 2xVelociraptor boot RAID, 4.5TB RAID0 storage, 30" & 20" Apple displays.
2 x Macbook Pro's 17" 3.06 4 GB RAM, 256GB Solid State drives
iMac 17" Core Duo 1GB RAM, & 2 iPhones 8GB, and a Nano in a pear tree!
Apple user since 1981
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2001
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thanks UnixMac
that was a great ref to that ARS article I had read it before and bookmarked it but didn't get down to the bootbamp part
ill use BC 1.1 and pay attention to their ref to the drivers for the video card etc
maybe BC 1.1 had them
again thanks
cheers
rotuts
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MacPro 2.66 dual 3GB RAM 1.5 TB HD's
24" + 21" Samsung flat panels
Miglia mini HD (Great!)
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