[Buckaroo]

I guess London has a problem with businesses who want to chase off the bratty little trouble makers.

My Way News - Stores Use Sonic Devices to Chase Kids

ONDON (AP) - England's commissioner for children and a civil liberties group joined in on a campaign Tuesday to ban high-frequency devices intended to drive misbehaving children away from shops and other areas.
The so-called "Mosquito" device emits high-frequency noise which is audible - and annoying - to young ears, but generally not heard by people over 20.



Kids' commissioner calls for ban on Mosquito, ultrasonic anti-teen device - Times Online

The creators of a pioneering device that uses high-frequency sound to stop teenagers congregating outside shops, schools and railway stations reacted angrily today to news that the government-appointed Children's Commissioner wants to see it banned.

The £500 Mosquito device has been installed at some 3,500 locations across the country since it first went on sale in January 2006. It emits an irritating, high-pitched sound that can only be heard by children and young people up into their early twenties, forcing them to move on.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

I guess London has a problem with businesses who want to chase off the bratty little trouble makers.

Considering it's adults who cause most of the *real* trouble and violence, I'm sure you have no problem with me hooking up a large siren in my garden that will constantly blare at an audible frequency to keep them away...

Are you not thinking halfway to the ceiling, or do you just have a strong dislike for ALL kids in general?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Considering it's adults who cause most of the *real* trouble and violence

No. Adults are too busy watching the TV and getting hammered on Special Brew to bother with being troublesome and violent. It's their kids which are causing the problems. Mostly.

In a certain area of my city, there's ten-year-olds putting axes (yes, axes) in each others' heads. Fact.

BBC NEWS | UK | Teen 24: Kids and crime

Teenage males are the most likely group to have been involved in crime (Source: Office for National Statistics' Social Trends Survey, April 2007)

[analogika]

And driving all kids away from certain public spots by blaring annoying sound at them solves that problem how exactly?

[Andrew Stephens]

Yes, lets demonise teenagers! They cause all the social problems in the world. It's not as if they have the same right to be on the street as anyone else.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by analogika 

And driving all kids away from certain public spots by blaring annoying sound at them solves that problem how exactly?

It doesn't solve that problem. But it tends to stop it from happening on your doorstep if you've stumped up 500 quid for the device.

Being in retail you should understand perfectly how your shop doesn't really want gangs of feral kids hanging around outside deterring real customers from coming into your store.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Andrew Stephens 

Yes, lets demonise teenagers! It's not as if they have the same right to be on the street as anyone else.

And these teenagers pay their local taxes for the upkeep of these streets, do they? Equal rights costs equal contribution. Period.

[Andrew Stephens]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

And these teenagers pay their local taxes for the upkeep of these streets, do they? Equal rights costs equal contribution. Period.

not so. Our society makes allowances for young people not to be earning and paying taxes. Ambulances do not refuse to collect children just because they have not been paying National Insurance.

The right to freedom of movement in society is not dependant on active contribution of money.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

And these teenagers pay their local taxes for the upkeep of these streets, do they? Equal rights costs equal contribution. Period.

Aren't you lucky to have been born a working adult!

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

It doesn't solve that problem. But it tends to stop it from happening on your doorstep if you've stumped up 500 quid for the device.

Being in retail you should understand perfectly how your shop doesn't really want gangs of feral kids hanging around outside deterring real customers from coming into your store.

Oh, absolutely.

I also understand fully that what this does is that it makes these things happen on the doorstep of those who DIDN'T stump up the 500 quid.

I'd think that the fact that people are buying 500-pound Annoy-The-****-Out-Of-Kids devices is actually probably part of the problem they're trying to divert onto someone else's yard.

[RAILhead]

Kids like these are like fire ants in your yard: you can't kill them, so you poison you whole yard so that they move somewhere else.

[Sherman Homan]

Hours of fun here!:

Old folks! Annoy your kids!

[subego]

Originally Posted by Sherman Homan 

Hours of fun here!:

Old folks! Annoy your kids!

I'm getting close to 40, and that kinda hurt.

[red rocket]

What I don't understand is how the (presumably post‑teen) owner of the device is supposed to know whether the mosquito device is actually working, or whether the kids are merely messing with him. Considering that the shopkeeper can't hear the bloody thing, it seems easy and tempting enough for younglings to just disable it and occasionally pretend to be scared away in order to make a joke of the whole concept.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by red rocket 

What I don't understand is how the (presumably post‑teen) owner of the device is supposed to know whether the mosquito device is actually working, or whether the kids are merely messing with him.

Easy to check. Bit of cheap analysis gear and you're done.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Oh, absolutely.

I also understand fully that what this does is that it makes these things happen on the doorstep of those who DIDN'T stump up the 500 quid.

I'd think that the fact that people are buying 500-pound Annoy-The-****-Out-Of-Kids devices is actually probably part of the problem they're trying to divert onto someone else's yard.

Well, it's just a temporary elastoplast until such a time as we have a government which does something about these problems.

Guess I'm gonna find out which company makes these things and invest, then.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Easy to check. Bit of cheap analysis gear and you're done.

Easy for you to say... aren't you a recording engineer or summat?

Would your average shop owner know to try something like that?

[Andrew Stephens]

Tie dog to pole near device. When dog goes mad device is working!

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Andrew Stephens 

Tie hoodie to pole near device. When hoodie goes mad device is working!

Alternativeated.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Alternativeated.

You Brits and your slang.

I pictured a hooded sweatshirt at first. (Which is what "hoodie" refers to here in 'Merka). Then I thought, "ok, he means hoodlum."

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

You Brits and your slang.

I pictured a hooded sweatshirt at first. (Which is what "hoodie" refers to here in 'Merka). Then I thought, "ok, he means hoodlum."

"Hoodie" = young person of possible delinquent tendencies who runs with a crowd in which the fashion culture encourages the wearing of "hoodies" (the clothing).

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Sherman Homan 

Hours of fun here!:

Old folks! Annoy your kids!

I'm near 40 and, damn you! That's painful.

edit: who can't hear that sound?

[Shaddim]

I just downloaded a 20kHz test tone and tested all the people in or near my office, including two 20-22 year-olds. 4 out of 7 could hear it (which included the two younger people). Surprisingly, of the older folks, the only other person besides myself who could hear the tone was the oldest, and he's 57.


Free Online Ear Training - Test Tone Downloads

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I'm near 40 and, damn you! That's painful.

edit: who can't hear that sound?

I can't hear it.

Not on MBP speakers anyways. Plug the Beyers in and yep, I don't have to flip burgers yet.

[TETENAL]

With the MacBook speakers the sound is audible which makes me think it's not 20 kHz. I doubt the crappy MacBook speaker's range is that high.

[Shaddim]

My bad, my speakers here are pretty decent, HK stereo receiver w/ Paradigm bookshelf speakers. I didn't think about the uber-compact speakers in notebooks.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

"Hoodie" = young person of possible delinquent tendencies who runs with a crowd in which the fashion culture encourages the wearing of "hoodies" (the clothing).

Or more succinctly, "Hoodie" = "a hoodlum that wears a hoodie"

[seanc]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

I guess London has a problem with businesses who want to chase off the bratty little trouble makers.

My Way News - Stores Use Sonic Devices to Chase Kids

ONDON (AP) - England's commissioner for children and a civil liberties group joined in on a campaign Tuesday to ban high-frequency devices intended to drive misbehaving children away from shops and other areas.
The so-called "Mosquito" device emits high-frequency noise which is audible - and annoying - to young ears, but generally not heard by people over 20.



Kids' commissioner calls for ban on Mosquito, ultrasonic anti-teen device - Times Online

The creators of a pioneering device that uses high-frequency sound to stop teenagers congregating outside shops, schools and railway stations reacted angrily today to news that the government-appointed Children's Commissioner wants to see it banned.

The £500 Mosquito device has been installed at some 3,500 locations across the country since it first went on sale in January 2006. It emits an irritating, high-pitched sound that can only be heard by children and young people up into their early twenties, forcing them to move on.

So that'll be what that damn noise is when I go to Tesco. One more reason to avoid the place like the plague.

[Shaddim]

How would the general public feel if shops played loud hip-hop to drive off fogies?

[peeb]

Erm, some stores do that.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

edit: who can't hear that sound?

I've listened to a lot of loud music in my 24 years and that sound still slices into my head.

[Sherman Homan]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I'm near 40 and, damn you! That's painful.
edit: who can't hear that sound?

I have decent speakers so I conducted a rigidly controlled scientific test. Kids are watching TV in another room. I crank the "sound" I can't hear it, but I can feel a pressure in my ears. The kids start screaming.

I can't really hear it, I feel it, and it makes my ears ring after the fact.

[Dakar the Fourth]

I hope it was Rain Man-like screaming.

[paul w]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I'm near 40 and, damn you! That's painful.

edit: who can't hear that sound?

I'm 33, and yeah that's unpleasant. I'll probably walk past the shop blaring that.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

Kids like these are like fire ants in your yard: you can't kill them, so you poison you whole yard so that they move somewhere else.

With similar results: You have no fire ants, but you have no other insects around at all, anymore, either.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I just downloaded a 20kHz test tone and tested all the people in or near my office, including two 20-22 year-olds. 4 out of 7 could hear it (which included the two younger people). Surprisingly, of the older folks, the only other person besides myself who could hear the tone was the oldest, and he's 57.


Free Online Ear Training - Test Tone Downloads

Note that the cheaper your playback equipment is, the more likely you're going to hear a tone: a 20 kHz tone will alias at 10 kHz on mediocre D/A converters (such as most built-in sound cards).

[Andrew Stephens]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I'm near 40 and, damn you! That's painful.

edit: who can't hear that sound?

wooah! I couldn't hear a thing but my 11 year old daughter suddenly sat up and cried "what's that horrible noise".

That's using the speakers on my MBP.

[- - e r i k - -]

Old. Teens used this sound against adults when it was made into a stealth ringtone.

Thankfully I can still hear that tone at 26 despite countless concerts, festivals and loud music sessions

[scottiB]

Originally Posted by Sherman Homan 

Hours of fun here!:

Old folks! Annoy your kids!

I'm 41 and hear it from the crappy speaker on my Quicksilver--even above its din (though the din is a lower frequency).

[scottiB]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Note that the cheaper your playback equipment is, the more likely you're going to hear a tone: a 20 kHz tone will alias at 10 kHz on mediocre D/A converters (such as most built-in sound cards).

Damn.