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12-Year-Old Grounded for Too Much Internet Use Gets Punishment Overturned in Court
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Buckaroo
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Jun 19, 2008, 11:46 PM
 
OMG!!!! 12-Year-Old Grounded for Too Much Internet Use Gets Punishment Overturned in Court

What next?

A Canadian court has overturned a father's punishment for his daughter after she refused to stay off the Internet, his attorney said Wednesday.

The girl, 12, took her father to Quebec Superior Court after he refused to allow her to go on a school trip for chatting on Web sites and then posting "inappropriate" pictures of herself online using a friend's computer, AFP reported.

FOXNews.com - 12-Year-Old Grounded for Too Much Internet Use Gets Punishment Overturned in Court - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News

This is crazy.
     
Zeeb
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Jun 19, 2008, 11:51 PM
 
There is scant information in this article and I'd like to know more details. On the surface this seems outrageous but there has to be more to this.
     
lpkmckenna
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Jun 19, 2008, 11:58 PM
 
pics, or it didn't happen.
     
Laminar
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Jun 20, 2008, 12:00 AM
 
This sounds too much like The Onion.
     
Cold Warrior
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Jun 20, 2008, 12:01 AM
 
Only in Camerika?
     
Buckaroo  (op)
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Jun 20, 2008, 12:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
pics, or it didn't happen.
I admit, there have been stories in the news that turned out to be false, but it sure looks real.

Here's another link to another news source.

Court overturns father's grounding of 12-year-old - Yahoo! News

I don't know if this picture helps, I'm not even sure it's related, but it was linked to the story.

     
Love Calm Quiet
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Jun 20, 2008, 05:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by Zeeb View Post
There is scant information in this article and I'd like to know more details. On the surface this seems outrageous but there has to be more to this.
?scant?

You must be kidding. This is “In depth analysis” to those who rely on FOX for their news.
TOMBSTONE: "He's trashed his last preferences"
     
Love Calm Quiet
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Jun 20, 2008, 05:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by Buckaroo View Post
Here's another link to another news source.
Court overturns father's grounding of 12-year-old - Yahoo! News
The Yahoo news story presents *slightly* more context:
“Beaudoin noted the girl used a court-appointed lawyer in her parents' 10-year custody dispute to launch her landmark case against dear old dad."
So one can read between the lines and guess that much divorce-rage insanity besides this is part of the drama.
And speaking of drama: It's not really a news story. It's tabloid-style titillation and trolling for reader outrage.

[/jaundiced eye toward media empires]
TOMBSTONE: "He's trashed his last preferences"
     
analogika
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Jun 20, 2008, 06:26 AM
 
In other words, all we're seeing here is that parents in a long drawn-out divorce war will seriously **** up their kids.
     
Chuckit
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Jun 20, 2008, 11:14 AM
 
How far in advance did he ground her? In order to successfully complete such a murky lawsuit before it became irrelevant, that must have been one heck of a grounding.

Or, you know, the story could be fake.
Chuck
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"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
     
Chongo
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Jun 20, 2008, 11:26 AM
 
nothing on Snopes
45/47
     
Railroader
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Jun 20, 2008, 01:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Buckaroo View Post
OMG!!!! 12-Year-Old Grounded for Too Much Internet Use Gets Punishment Overturned in Court...
If a country I lived in parented my child in this manner I assure you I would become an immigrant to another country very quickly.
     
Atheist
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Jun 20, 2008, 02:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
If a country I lived in parented my child in this manner I assure you I would become an immigrant to another country very quickly.
MUCH easier said than done!
     
Railroader
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Jun 20, 2008, 02:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
MUCH easier said than done!
Not for everyone.
     
lpkmckenna
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Jun 20, 2008, 03:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
If a country I lived in parented my child in this manner I assure you I would become an immigrant to another country very quickly.
I'm certain we're all missing some key details here. This is a 10 year custody dispute? We're missing at least 10 years worth of history and baggage.

I don't remember where you live, RR, but didn't the US just yank a bunch of kids from their families without just cause? Sounds much more severe than this little legal tiff.
     
Person Man
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Jun 20, 2008, 04:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
Not for everyone.
Indeed.

For example, through my father (who retained his Greek citizenship and has a Green Card*) I can apply for and obtain Greek citizenship and then be able to live in any country in the European union. Greek law allows anyone born to a Greek national in another country to apply for citizenship even after they have become an adult despite the fact that their parents did not apply for dual citizenship.

My parents did not get me Greek citizenship because I would have had to serve in the Greek military (compulsory service) and my father did not have a happy experience and did not wish to "inflict" it on either of us. And yes, being a dual citizen would have compelled us to serve. If we didn't do it by remaining in the US, then they could force us to when we entered Greece. And US law wouldn't have protected us in this case.

As I am a physician, if I applied now for dual citizenship I'm sure I'd serve in the medical corps, as they wouldn't want to waste my skills in a combat position, so I wouldn't have a problem with that at all.

So, don't assume that everyone would have problems easily emigrating from the US if they really wanted to. Yes, some people who really want to can't, but some can.

* Green cards aren't green any more.
     
Person Man
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Jun 20, 2008, 04:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
didn't the US just yank a bunch of kids from their families without just cause?
They had reason to believe that those kids were being sexually abused, which is against the law. The problem in that case was that the authorities f*cked up big time. "Shoot first, ask questions later" will NOT give you a better outcome in most cases. Had the authorities properly built a case, they could have avoided that embarrassing incident and ended up with a successful case. And I don't think nearly as many kids would have been taken.

The problem is, now those affected by the screw up are going to go further into hiding and it will be a TON more difficult to prosecute any abuse. Who loses? The real victims of the sexual abuse.
     
Railroader
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Jun 20, 2008, 04:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
I'm certain we're all missing some key details here. This is a 10 year custody dispute? We're missing at least 10 years worth of history and baggage.
I'm not debating whether the story is true or not.

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
I don't remember where you live, RR, but didn't the US just yank a bunch of kids from their families without just cause? Sounds much more severe than this little legal tiff.
Complete derail. But I'll address it. They had just cause. There were major allegations and there still are. I hope they continue to look into what happened to those kids.

But hey, you can use the strawman tactics if you want. They are easy to see through. You're just trying to defend the country you live in.
     
lpkmckenna
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Jun 20, 2008, 06:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
I'm not debating whether the story is true or not.
Ok. But I'm saying it can't be true.
Complete derail. But I'll address it.
You made a bold claim, and I challenged it. I was sticking a pin in your swollen language. You reminded me of those loud-mouth celebrities threatening to leave the US if Bush was re-elected.
They had just cause. There were major allegations and there still are. I hope they continue to look into what happened to those kids.
Me too. But they didn't have just cause. Your story by-line says "Legal Experts Say Individual Prosecutions Could Be Ahead." That's what they should have done the first time. No government has the right to take children away from a parent without allegations against that specific parent.
But hey, you can use the strawman tactics if you want. They are easy to see through. You're just trying to defend the country you live in.
No, I was challenging your bold claim. I've seen stupid court decisions over the years, here and in the US. I've also seen court decisions completely misrepresented by the media (like the McDonald's coffee case). This is clearly in the latter category.
     
Railroader
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Jun 20, 2008, 06:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
Ok. But I'm saying it can't be true.

You made a bold claim, and I challenged it. I was sticking a pin in your swollen language. You reminded me of those loud-mouth celebrities threatening to leave the US if Bush was re-elected.

Me too. But they didn't have just cause. Your story by-line says "Legal Experts Say Individual Prosecutions Could Be Ahead." That's what they should have done the first time. No government has the right to take children away from a parent without allegations against that specific parent.

No, I was challenging your bold claim. I've seen stupid court decisions over the years, here and in the US. I've also seen court decisions completely misrepresented by the media (like the McDonald's coffee case). This is clearly in the latter category.
Your challenge was extremely weak and easily destroyed. Now you are attempting damage control.

I was right.

My claim stands.
     
lpkmckenna
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Jun 20, 2008, 07:06 PM
 
Delusional.
     
Railroader
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Jun 20, 2008, 07:15 PM
 
Hmm... let's review
  1. I make statement.
  2. lpkmckenna challenges statement and cites other incident to support his weak argument.
  3. I reaffirm my statement and destroy (along with Person Man) lpkmckenna's weak argument.
  4. lpkmckenna twists in the wind and makes other weak argument statements.
  5. I reaffirm my claim.
  6. lpkmckenna claims I am delusional.



I am done with his derailing. He doesn't want to talk about the issue, he wants to talk about my response to the issue.
     
kmkkid
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Jun 22, 2008, 10:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
Hmm... let's review
  1. I make statement.
  2. lpkmckenna challenges statement and cites other incident to support his weak argument.
  3. I reaffirm my statement and destroy (along with Person Man) lpkmckenna's weak argument.
  4. lpkmckenna twists in the wind and makes other weak argument statements.
  5. I reaffirm my claim.
  6. lpkmckenna claims I am delusional.



I am done with his derailing. He doesn't want to talk about the issue, he wants to talk about my response to the issue.

You made a silly statement in an attempt to piss in our Canadian cornflakes.

The US has had far more ridiculous court case outcomes than this. Better pack your bags.

That is all.
     
Cold Warrior
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Jun 22, 2008, 10:57 AM
 
Congratulations to everyone who derailed this thread. I have banished it to the pol/war lounge since it's now political.
     
Buckaroo  (op)
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Jun 22, 2008, 06:56 PM
 
hehehehe.
     
lpkmckenna
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Jun 22, 2008, 07:41 PM
 
It wasn't always political?
     
lpkmckenna
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Jun 22, 2008, 09:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Person Man View Post
They had reason to believe that those kids were being sexually abused, which is against the law.
They had allegations, but that's not the same as just cause.
The problem in that case was that the authorities f*cked up big time. "Shoot first, ask questions later" will NOT give you a better outcome in most cases. Had the authorities properly built a case, they could have avoided that embarrassing incident and ended up with a successful case. And I don't think nearly as many kids would have been taken.

The problem is, now those affected by the screw up are going to go further into hiding and it will be a TON more difficult to prosecute any abuse. Who loses? The real victims of the sexual abuse.
All true.

Back on track: Court quashes dad's grounding of 12-year-old daughter.

Some more information here, it seems:
But the judge's decision was not just a case of a child going to court to get out of trouble, said Miriam Grassby, a Quebec family lawyer who has spoken with the various attorneys involved.

Under Quebec family law, it is not uncommon for a child in a high-conflict situation between two parents to have an attorney appointed to protect his or her best interests, as was the case here, Grassby said.

"In Quebec, no matter who has custody, we have joint parental authority," Grassby told CBC News on Thursday. "There are issues of discipline where both parents have to agree, and if they don't, we will have a place" to resolve the issue in court.

The attorney representing the child had been chosen and agreed to by both parents, she noted.

"The court is there to be an objective third party, and these children who are in these high-conflict situations need the protection of the court," Grassby said.

"I think we could presume the judge had good judgment in the fact that she read the statements and found out what both parents were saying, and that the child was punished at least once for that, and this was excessive punishment."
Makes sense. I guess we've all (re)learned a lesson: Faux News is incompetent.
     
besson3c
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Jun 23, 2008, 12:55 AM
 
I have a great idea! Let's bicker about a silly tabloid news story... Sounds like great fun!
     
Railroader
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Jun 23, 2008, 07:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I have a great idea! Let's bicker about a silly tabloid news story... Sounds like great fun!
By making fun of us you sure showed us.
     
   
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