[Captain Obvious]

http://www.forbes.com/business/healt...ap1549174.html

In a country already plagued by skyrocketing sick leave costs, a new survey found that 40 percent of the population thinks it's acceptable to skip work because they feel tired or have trouble getting along with their colleagues

[waxcrash]

Guess it explains one of the reasons why they have such a high standard of living.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Human_Development_Index

[ambush]

Sweden rocks.

[Captain Obvious]

Originally posted by waxcrash:
Guess it explains one of the reasons why they have such a high standard of living.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Human_Development_Index

Based on leisure timethey take and government services maybe. But at what cost?

The Swedish Research Institute of Trade (HUI) said it had compared official U.S. and Swedish statistics on household income, as well as gross domestic product, private consumption and retail spending per capita between 1980 and 1999.

Using fixed prices and purchasing power parity adjusted data, the median household income in Sweden at the end of the 1990s was the equivalent of $26,800, compared with a median of $39,400 for U.S. households, HUI's study showed.

"Weak growth means that Sweden has lost greatly in prosperity compared with the United States," HUI's president, Fredrik Bergstrom, and chief economist, Robert Gidehag, said.

International Monetary Fund data from 2001 show that U.S. GDP per capita in dollar terms was 56 percent higher than in Sweden, while in 1980, Swedish GDP per capita was 20 percent higher.

[Logic]

Yup, this is what happens when you build up a system that is too good. The standard of living is among the best in the world. The industry is still strong, with new things coming in slowly but not fast enough. But that is understandable when a nation focuses on quality of life instead of only $$$$.

And you'd need to understand how the "sick days" system works to truly understand the implications of it.

[storer]

How absolutely stupid!

[waxcrash]

Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
Based on leisure timethey take and government services maybe. But at what cost?

It's no secret that Europeans make less than Americans at the equivalent job. In my opinion, the benefits (healthcare, time off, etc.) makes up for the loss in salary. I get 2 weeks paid vacation, yet in Europe it isn't uncommon to get 4 weeks. European workers are also heavy protected by the government in regards to job security. Ask a European manager how hard it is to fire someone. I would take a pay cut to get more time off, better job security, and healthcare. Europeans pay more taxes compared to there US counterpart. Would you be willing to pay more taxes, make less, but have a guaranteed high standard of living? I would.

[Logic]

btw, all this talk about low taxes in the US. What is the average tax percentage in the US?

[Logic]

More about the Lazy Swedes�

[Captain Obvious]

Originally posted by Logic:
More about the Lazy Swedes�

Inventors? All of whom died before 1980, most before mid century.
This is what I mean by inane. This has nothing to do with the discussion.

[Logic]

Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
Inventors? All of whom died before 1980, most before mid century.
This is what I mean by inane. This has nothing to do with the discussion.

When you claim Swedes are lazy it has something to do with the discussion. If you would make the correct claim that "young, uneducated Swedish women thinks that it is OK to take out sick days when there is a strike at school and when they are tired" I wouldn't object to it at all.

But I guess you didn't bother trying to find more info about the study.

[hardcat1970]

i remember when i arrived in stockholm from oslo on a sunday afternoon eight years ago, the shops were all closed and the street was so empty. For a tourist like me, my first reaction was the swedish were so lazy and sweden was so boring.

[Joshua]

Originally posted by Logic:
Yup, this is what happens when you build up a system that is too good. The standard of living is among the best in the world. The industry is still strong, with new things coming in slowly but not fast enough. But that is understandable when a nation focuses on quality of life instead of only $$$$.

And you'd need to understand how the "sick days" system works to truly understand the implications of it.

At some point, though, nations have to realize that "quality of life" requires "$$$$."

[Logic]

Originally posted by Joshua:
At some point, though, nations have to realize that "quality of life" requires "$$$$."

Or:

Nations have to realise that $$$$ are not required for quality of life.

What is better is a completely different discussion though.

[Joshua]

Originally posted by Logic:
Or:

Nations have to realise that $$$$ are not required for quality of life.

What is better is a completely different discussion though.

Uhh, how exactly are you funding the substantial social welfare program that provides you with that high quality of life? With happy thoughts?

[Earth Mk. II]

Is this one of those "working to live" vs. "living to work" type discussions?

[ambush]

more like a left vs right discussion.

I choose left.

[Earth Mk. II]

I don't believe in introducing relativistic coordinate systems into social or political discussions.

[MilkmanDan]

Originally posted by waxcrash:
It's no secret that Europeans make less than Americans at the equivalent job. In my opinion, the benefits (healthcare, time off, etc.) makes up for the loss in salary. I get 2 weeks paid vacation, yet in Europe it isn't uncommon to get 4 weeks. European workers are also heavy protected by the government in regards to job security. Ask a European manager how hard it is to fire someone. I would take a pay cut to get more time off, better job security, and healthcare. Europeans pay more taxes compared to there US counterpart. Would you be willing to pay more taxes, make less, but have a guaranteed high standard of living? I would.

I completely agree. Making more money isn't everything, when you have to pay high costs in other areas.

Swedes are nice people. I know many. And many hot ones.

[Krusty]

Originally posted by Joshua:
Uhh, how exactly are you funding the substantial social welfare program that provides you with that high quality of life? With happy thoughts?

What percentage of the Swedish budget is borrowed money ? ... ZERO .. 0% ... NONE. We're borrowing literally 20% of our budget in the US in 2004 (i.e. NOT funding it with money we actually have) -- and our social welfare system is significantly less "substantial".

Right now, Sweden is worried that their budget for 2004 might not be balanced (as it ALWAYS IS) due to declining tax revenues from Alchohol (as there is apparently a growing trend to buy cheaper alcohol from outside the country). Our CBO is currently predicting that, in best case scenario, we will have a balanced budget again in 2014 (with trillions in accrued debt in the 11 years of deficits between now and then).

Point is: They balance their budget. We aren't even close to balancing ours. Obviously, the relative per capita GDP isn't nearly as important as having a leadership that can perform basic math.

[The Oracle]

you guys have to remember that sweden is a tiny country. Comparing the social/welfare systems of Sweden and the United States is like a 2-stroke weed whacker versus a V-12 Jaguar--the 2-stroke is smaller, leaner, and highly tuned and efficient, while the V-12 is infinitely more complex and more highly prone to problems and malfunction. What works in tiny Sweden will not work in the US.

Isn't this a polwar topic now?

[Logic]

Could you please explain why something that works in a small country(9 million people) doesn't work in a large country? And give some details for why you don't think it works.

Thanks

[Krusty]

Originally posted by The Oracle:
you guys have to remember that sweden is a tiny country. Comparing the social/welfare systems of Sweden and the United States is like a 2-stroke weed whacker versus a V-12 Jaguar--the 2-stroke is smaller, leaner, and highly tuned and efficient, while the V-12 is infinitely more complex and more highly prone to problems and malfunction. What works in tiny Sweden will not work in the US.

Isn't this a polwar topic now?

Good points .... making it especially ridiculous to try to compare the way Sweden runs their rig to the US.

In an attempt to keep this out of the polwar lounge, I will add that I have it on good authority that the UN Standard of Living study cited above secretly weights "the pervasiveness of hot, nordic babes" very heavily in that study.

[JohnnyAppleseed]

ABBA ROCKS!!!

[waxcrash]

Originally posted by Krusty:
What percentage of the Swedish budget is borrowed money ? ... ZERO .. 0% ... NONE. We're borrowing literally 20% of our budget in the US in 2004 (i.e. NOT funding it with money we actually have) -- and our social welfare system is significantly less "substantial".

Right now, Sweden is worried that their budget for 2004 might not be balanced (as it ALWAYS IS) due to declining tax revenues from Alchohol (as there is apparently a growing trend to buy cheaper alcohol from outside the country). Our CBO is currently predicting that, in best case scenario, we will have a balanced budget again in 2014 (with trillions in accrued debt in the 11 years of deficits between now and then).

Point is: They balance their budget. We aren't even close to balancing ours. Obviously, the relative per capita GDP isn't nearly as important as having a leadership that can perform basic math.

The reason Sweden can balance it's budget is because it has no military. I know that technically they do, but there military spending is pennies.

[Logic]

Originally posted by waxcrash:
The reason Sweden can balance it's budget is because it has no military. I know that technically they do, but there military spending is pennies.

Heh, BS.

Military expenditures - dollar figure:

$4.395 billion (FY01)

Military expenditures - percent of GDP:

2.1% (FY01)

source: CIA Factbook

About 2% is average in the world IIRC.

[Joshua]

Originally posted by waxcrash:
The reason Sweden can balance it's budget is because it has no military. I know that technically they do, but there military spending is pennies.

It has more to do with the fact that their government's revenue (taxes) is about 75% of the GDP: $177.7 billion / $238.1 billion.

Compare that with the US government, which takes in just over 16% of the GDP: $1.782 trillion / $10.98 trillion.

[Krusty]

Originally posted by waxcrash:
The reason Sweden can balance it's budget is because it has no military. I know that technically they do, but there military spending is pennies.

That's funny, I could SWEAR that, even with our huge military, we somehow managed to balance our budgets .. *ahem* ... a few years ago and for most of our history prior to the 70s. Our budget isn't out of balance due to our military ... we've had that expense, in roughly the same proportion thru balanced and unbalance budgets.
2000: 250bln budget surplus. ~19.35% of real outlays were for military.
2003: 375bln budget deficit. ~20.0% of outlays were for military.

That < 1% difference (about $20 billion in current budget dollars) DID NOT cause a $422 billion budget deficit.

[JohnnyAppleseed]

more ABBA...

[Joshua]

Originally posted by Krusty:
That's funny, I could SWEAR that, even with our huge military, we somehow managed to balance our budgets .. *ahem* ... a few years ago and for most of our history prior to the 70s. Our budget isn't out of balance due to our military ... we've had that expense, in roughly the same proportion thru balanced and unbalance budgets.
2000: 250bln budget surplus. ~19.35% of real outlays were for military.
2003: 375bln budget deficit. ~20.0% of outlays were for military.

That < 1% difference (about $20 billion in current budget dollars) DID NOT cause a $422 billion budget deficit.

That's all nice, but this isn't a thread about the US budget deficit. If the US government was to quadruple its revenue (read: huge tax increase), it could have a balanced budget and a huge welfare system too.

[Webscreamer]

I got a few friends from Sweden... they aren't lazy, just bossy.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
Based on leisure timethey take and government services maybe. But at what cost?
[/i]

Don't take Wikipedia links seriously.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Webscreamer:
I got a few friends from Sweden... they aren't lazy, just bossy.

Watch it, or they will UNLEASH THE FOOKIN FUUURY!

Just ask Yngwie.

[cszar2001]

Originally posted by waxcrash:
It's no secret that Europeans make less than Americans at the equivalent job. In my opinion, the benefits (healthcare, time off, etc.) makes up for the loss in salary. I get 2 weeks paid vacation, yet in Europe it isn't uncommon to get 4 weeks. European workers are also heavy protected by the government in regards to job security. Ask a European manager how hard it is to fire someone. I would take a pay cut to get more time off, better job security, and healthcare. Europeans pay more taxes compared to there US counterpart. Would you be willing to pay more taxes, make less, but have a guaranteed high standard of living? I would.

It`s 4-5 weeks paid vacation in Germany and full health care (even if you only work 5 hours a week).

[Powaqqatsi]

Originally posted by ambush:
Swedish chicks rock.

Fixed�

[P]

Good thing I didn't see this while surfing at work, I would have felt so targeted...

There is a lot of this around, especially among people a decade or so older than me - people feeling that work has to be fun and fulfilling or they shouldn't have to work. The point, of course, is that someone else should make work like that, but I don't have to do anything to improve the situation. This thinking is slowly receding, but it's there still.

Sweden has a balanced budget now. We did not have a balanced budget during the entire eighties, no matter how great the economy was, which meant that when economy turned bad in the early nineties we suddenly had a huge deficit, a huge debt and all the money went to interest payments on the debt. That is all turned around now, and we are actually paying off that debt slowly, but I wonder how long this bout fiscal control will last. I'm afraid that it will all fall down at some point.

[theolein]

Ooooohhh, another My-Country's-Dick-Is-Bigger-And-Better-Than-Yours thread. What fun. Ok, I'll bite.

Firstly I would like to say that we should all nuke Sweden. Those hot chicks are too much for Country-Dick-Comparitors to take.



Secondly, can someone tell me why fully 60% of the American adult population is fat?



Certainly a world leader there

[CreepingDeth]

Aren't Celtic Frost Swedes?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by theolein:
Secondly, can someone tell me why fully 60% of the American adult population is fat?

Depends were you are at. Some parts I am sure are more than 60%. Others are more in the 10% range.

Not a lot of "fat" people in this area.

American isn't the "fastest" nation anyhow. I believe Singapore wins that race.

[The Windozer]

Just thought I'd mention that Norway > Sweden. If Sweden was Mount Everest, Norway would be Olympus Mons. That's how good Norway is.


Why, yes I am Norwegian. Was it my accent that tipped you off?

[Logic]

Originally posted by The Windozer:
Just thought I'd mention that Norway > Sweden. If Sweden was Mount Everest, Norway would be Olympus Mons. That's how good Norway is.


Why, yes I am Norwegian. Was it my accent that tipped you off?

But you language man, your language. If you'd stop singing while talking we might perhaps accept you back to the union

[The Windozer]

I can understand fully that you admire our beautiful singing language, but if 96 years isn't enough for you to learn to speak like us, I don't think another union will do you much good

[tae667]

Originally posted by Logic:
But you language man, your language. If you'd stop singing while talking we might perhaps accept you back to the union

Swede mocking languages? What next, a Dane ranting how well their country did in WWII?

[Logic]

Originally posted by The Windozer:
I can understand fully that you admire our beautiful singing language, but if 96 years isn't enough for you to learn to speak like us, I don't think another union will do you much good

Och v�lkommen till macnn

[Logic]

Originally posted by tae667:
Swede mocking languages? What next, a Dane ranting how well their country did in WWII?

OK, I've got to admit that there is nothing cuter than Finnish-Swedish. Even the most threatening Finnish-Swedish speaking male begins to remind of the Mumins as soon as he opens his mouth

[simonjames]

Its interesting how people can form a strong opinion from ignorance and one biased news article.

Swedes are fantastic people - relaxed, laid back, "no nonsense" types. Just like Danes only with funny accents.

[ambush]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Depends were you are at. Some parts I am sure are more than 60%. Others are more in the 10% range.

Not a lot of "fat" people in this area.

American isn't the "fastest" nation anyhow. I believe Singapore wins that race.

Yes, people in Singapore are known to be very fast

[ReggieX]

Originally posted by The Windozer:
Why, yes I am Norwegian. Was it my accent that tipped you off?

Yeah, you have a bit of an extra attack on your a's when you type.

[Lancer409]

Originally posted by storer:
How absolutely stupid!

^ditto ....
I want in =P ... J/k

[Oisín]

Originally posted by tae667:
Swede mocking languages? What next, a Dane ranting how well their country did in WWII?

What on earth are you on about??? We Danes came out as the absolute and irrefutable winners of WWII! Everybody knows that!



Oh, and do I hear a Swede/Icelander complaining that the Norwegians are singing whenever they open their mouths? Yeah, right. 'Cause Swedish and Icelandic isn't singing at all, nooo...

If you want people who don't sing when talking, look to us Danes.

Oh, and obviously, Denmark > Iceland > Norway > Sweden. There, got that settled.