[Veltliner]

There's a nice little article about the fight Verizon: AT&T.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/11/te....html?_r=1&hpw

AT&T claims that Verizon's network technology is slow and that the iPhone wouldn't be as fast there as many expect.

Is CDMA really a lower standard than what AT & T uses (and we all know that AT & T is the worst network - but maybe it's because of too many subscribers and bad customer service, while the network technology itself may be fine).

[mduell]

Modern EVDO is 1.5-3.0Mbps vs 1.8-7.2Mbps for the modern UMTS variants.

But actual performance depends on signal strength, number of users on the cell, etc.

[imitchellg5]

AT&T isn't actually the worst network, it's pretty consistently the fastest network in the US. Coverage is the bad part.

CDMA has always been pretty slow IRL. I've never gotten more than 1.3 Mbps down on VZW, I've been able to get as high as 7 down on an iPhone 4.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Modern EVDO is 1.5-3.0Mbps vs 1.8-7.2Mbps for the modern UMTS variants.

Actually, the UMTS carriers in the US have been rolling out HSPA+ at 21 Mbps in certain markets for the last half year. EV-DO is a bad joke.

[imitchellg5]

A friend in SFO recently clocked 14 Mbps down on his G2, pretty impressive.

[l008com]

If you only count test where you're getting a good signal, I'm sure AT&T can be faster. But in the real world, when you have 1 bar of AT&T, you're going to have a much better experience on Verizon.

If you want to talk customer service, they're both very bad. I'm an ex-verizon customer, and they are true assholes. But at least on verizon, you can use your cell phone to call them and complain. When I want to call AT&T, I need to use skype via wifi on my iphone to complain.

[Chongo]

The iPhone users I've talked say they use wifi the majority of the time and use ATT only when wifi is not available. Facetime is wifi only anyway. (as is slingbox and a lot of other apps!)

[mduell]

The cellular network speed generally isn't the most limiting factor these days (assuming you can get a connection). Browse the non-mobile web on an iPhone vs a tethered computer and it's way faster on a computer because the iPhone is so slow rendering pages.

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Actually, the UMTS carriers in the US have been rolling out HSPA+ at 21 Mbps in certain markets for the last half year. EV-DO is a bad joke.

Sure, and EV-DO can go to 15 Mbps with Rev B and channel bonding. I was only quoting what the iPhone actually supports.

[Veltliner]

Verizon's iPhone will be for the 3G network.

What about the 4G network Verizon is rolling out? Should we see an iPhone 5 that can use it?

And what about this CDMA? The world is using GSM.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Sure, and EV-DO can go to 15 Mbps with Rev B and channel bonding. I was only quoting what the iPhone actually supports.

And HSPA+ can go to 84 Mbps with Release-8 and dual carriers (and soon, 168Mbps with Release-10 and quad carriers). I was only quoting what actually exists in the US. What the iPhone supports doesn't have much bearing on the relative quality of the two networks — and the iPhone will surely be updated soon enough anyway.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

What about the 4G network Verizon is rolling out? Should we see an iPhone 5 that can use it?

And what about this CDMA? The world is using GSM.

Anybody's guess.

There are rumors that Apple would switch to a new chip set that can do GSM + CDMA + EV-DO + 4G. Sooner or later, this will probably happen.

For the iPhone 5 ? Who knows...

-t

[mackandproud]

Verizon has been testing for a year to make sure their network can handle the iphone.

But their network is also slower than AT&T's.

I'm happy for verizon customers. They've been whining about the lack of an iphone for years now. Hopefully, greater competition will lead to lower rates or improved service, or something.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

Verizon's iPhone will be for the 3G network.

What about the 4G network Verizon is rolling out? Should we see an iPhone 5 that can use it?

And what about this CDMA? The world is using GSM.

I doubt iPhone 5 will support Verizon's LTE 4G network. It will probably support AT&T's HSPA+ network which they're marketing as 4G (but was not regarded as anything but 3G until a few months ago).

The latest GSM variants are WCDMA and I expect there will be an iPhone 5 that supports old school CDMA (may or may not be a single model).

[CharlesS]

Including both CDMA2000 and HSPA+ radios would probably make the device thicker, so I doubt they'll go for that option.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Including both CDMA2000 and HSPA+ radios would probably make the device thicker, so I doubt they'll go for that option.

I read that it's a combo processor. Is that what you mean?

[Veltliner]

Verizon playing the "not as fast but reliable card"

Slower connections keep high data throughput at bay and put less stress at the network?

How long will Verizon stay with the CDMA2000 standard? It seems to be outdated.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

I read that it's a combo processor. Is that what you mean?

I think the problem might be the antenna(s), not the chip.

-t

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

Verizon playing the "not as fast but reliable card"

Slower connections keep high data throughput at bay and put less stress at the network?

How long will Verizon stay with the CDMA2000 standard? It seems to be outdated.

Slower wireless connections don't help and won't solve AT&T's problem. AT&T can't support the number of connections their customers need. People don't complain AT&T is slow due to congestion, they complain it doesn't work.

They're deploying LTE in all major metros this year, but for data only; the voice standard is not finalized, so voice calls go over CDMA. CDMA2000 for everything will live on in the boonies for a while.

[subego]

YouTube - LEAKED: The ORIGINAL Cut of Apple's New iPhone Ad

[ghporter]

AT&T was pretty confident that their network would handle projected iPhone customers when the thing was rolled out. And their data network was swamped by much higher customer numbers than had been projected, so they had problems with that. Even if Verizon has ramped up capacity throughout its network, I think history shows that projecting iPhone popularity is a big problem. Unless Verizon has potentially over-built their network everywhere, there will be real problems...and because of that, I hereby predict that the first "My Verizon iPhone sucks!!one111!!" thread here will show up within less than two weeks of the actual full public release of the device.

[The Godfather]

A great flurry of iPhones in Craiglist and a fall of prices seems to indicate that millions of people are planning to switch on day one.
The "Can you hear me now" guy wont be able to place a call on his precious CDMA network.

[imitchellg5]

It's important to keep in mind that because of the nature of CDMA only allowing one stream of connection at a time (IE, only voice or data), it's much easier for Verizon to plan for the iPhone. In fact, it shouldn't be any difficulty at all. It's not like Android users aren't using data at all.

[cgc]

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

T...(and we all know that AT & T is the worst network - but maybe it's because of too many subscribers and bad customer service, while the network technology itself may be fine).

Urban legen perpetuated by ignorance (the speed part). I've had terrible customer service from both companies, really depends on who is on the other end of the line...Verizon transferred me to tech support in India which is a tough accent for me to understand and the frustration exacerbated my problem.

[Big Mac]

Interesting, I've only ever gotten American customer service reps from Verizon Wireless, which I appreciate. But I can say the same for AT&T, although their hold times are often quite poor.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by cgc 

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

(and we all know that AT & T is the worst network - but maybe it's because of too many subscribers and bad customer service, while the network technology itself may be fine).

Urban legen perpetuated by ignorance (the speed part). I've had terrible customer service from both companies, really depends on who is on the other end of the line...Verizon transferred me to tech support in India which is a tough accent for me to understand and the frustration exacerbated my problem.

I have never had "bad" customer service, nor "bad" network service from AT&T. I have had to wait on the phone for a while, but I've never had a problem go unaddressed, nor had a problem resolved in some way other than what I wanted. I've been persistent at times, but not in any excessive way.

As for "the worst network," where's the data? If you understand radio propagation, you'll see where there are bound to be relative dead spots in urban areas, which relates to both voice and data service. Has there EVER been an honest, scientific study of signal strength and available bandwidth in any single city that compares these points company-to-company? If there were, I think the phone company ads would be spouting that scientific data instead of using buzz words.

In a few situations, I've had to depend on phones provided at a work site (not at home) and on other networks; I never saw any "advantage" in T-Mobile or Verizon's networks, particularly not in voice service. On the other hand, when visiting Alaska and BC in the summer of 2009, I found that my AT&T phone had service immediately on being turned on in Skagway and Juneau, while fellow travelers with Verizon phones appeared to have not so good experiences... Victoria BC was both beautiful and well supported with a network my AT&T phone (a RAZR) worked well with.

[subego]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I have never had "bad" customer service, nor "bad" network service from AT&T.

I can't say I've had bad customer service on AT&T, but I have had spectacularly good customer service with T-Mo.

I also used to get great T-Mo reception in my apartment, while I needed a femtocell to make my iPhone functional. That's luck of the draw though.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by subego 

I can't say I've had bad customer service on AT&T, but I have had spectacularly good customer service with T-Mo.

I also used to get great T-Mo reception in my apartment, while I needed a femtocell to make my iPhone functional. That's luck of the draw though.

Good point. I have had a couple of "outstanding" support experiences, but I haven't had enough support issues overall to say that this was par or not. My most common issues: billing irregularities when changing types of service, as in adding lines or features. AT&T bookkeeping is a behemoth and getting it to actually move takes a little patience. I've been credited with a whole month's bill for pointing out that a feature didn't start working until a week after it was promised, but I've never had to pay for anything I thought was inappropriate.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

it's much easier for Verizon to plan for the iPhone. In fact, it shouldn't be any difficulty at all. It's not like Android users aren't using data at all.

Verizon smartphone users consume more data than AT&T smartphone users and the data usage is growing at a faster pace.

[subego]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

AT&T bookkeeping is a behemoth

"Is this the party to whom I am speaking?"

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by subego 

Originally Posted by ghporter 

AT&T bookkeeping is a behemoth

"Is this the party to whom I am speaking?"

More like "You'll see the credit in 3 to 4 billing cycles..."

[l008com]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

More like "You'll see the credit in 3 to 4 billing cycles..."

More like "Thank you for calling AT& CALL FAILED"

[subego]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

More like "You'll see the credit in 3 to 4 billing cycles..."

[snort]

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by subego 

[snort]

To their credit, it really only took the next full billing cycle for this particular credit to show up. But still, for a company that's this freakishly huge, I think some small amount of glacial speed is better than not getting what I was promised. And I have never lost out with AT&T.

[mduell]

Looks like the upcoming HTC Thunderbolt will support SVDO (simultaneous data and voice) on Verizon, so Verizon's network is capable of it.

Yet another example of Apple lagging with iPhone network standards (first 3G, then HSDPA, then HSPA, now SVDO, and I'm guessing no LTE this summer).

[scottiB]

It will, but not well enough that Verizon wants it mentioned by sales people or in marketing literature:

There is functionality in the Thunderbolt that allows simultaneous voice and data while on the VZW 3G network, however, we cannot promise the experience will be one that is consistent with our brand. As a result, do not reference this functionality as a benefit during your conversations with customers.

Read more: HTC Thunderbolt to get simultaneous voice, data? | Dialed In - CNET Blogs

[MacinTommy]

Will I be able to play words with friends with my Verizon iPhone friends?

[Stogieman]

As long as they're not making a phone call. I don't see why not.

[Veltliner]

Don't know if it's my phone on its way out, or Verizon, but I have an increasing number of dropped calls and bad connections.

I even asked the other person last time what network he was on - he was on Verizon, too, and the connection was bad and soon got dropped.

[imitchellg5]

My Verizon experience hasn't been that great lately either. Data seems unbearably slow.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

My Verizon experience hasn't been that great lately either. Data seems unbearably slow.

That's Verizon testing the iPhone 4.

Just wait, it'll get worse

-t

[imitchellg5]

I was out around town yesterday and Google Maps kept timing out and saying "Google Maps requires an internet connection" when I had 5 bars of 3G. It took probably 20 seconds to the mobile version of NYTimes.com

[mduell]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

I was out around town yesterday and Google Maps kept timing out and saying "Google Maps requires an internet connection" when I had 5 bars of 3G.

I've experienced the same with a GSM iPhone 4, when it had both 3G and wifi connections yet every app including the app store couldn't get an internet connection.

[CharlesS]

If it was doing that on wifi, that clearly had nothing to do with the cellular connection.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

That's Verizon testing the iPhone 4.

Just wait, it'll get worse

-t

Enjoy the show