[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

Doesn't seem to be many Call of Duty fans here

You're not reading all the threads.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by Mac User #001 

IGN: Madden NFL 10 Wii: New Genre-Defining Art Style

Skim the article, then check the screens.

I'm thinking this might be the first Madden on the Wii that will get some serious sales (EDIT: attention?).

I actually like the look of it. They really needed to do something different with the art style. It just looked like a PS2 re-hash.

Thankfully, they didn't go too cartoony with the art style.

[Mac User #001]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

Doesn't seem to be many Call of Duty fans here

Oh there are... I think I'm a level 56?

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

The first one was a definite disappointment... so im cautiously optimistic . but woo...sure looks good.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGhnEafXKfc

Wow. That's a bad@$$ trailer! I love the new style because even though the first games graphics were a bit stylistic, they were also pretty bad in some areas. This looks to fix that.

I was a bit disappointed to hear no multiplayer though. But I really don't care too much. I was just looking forward to motionplus on motionplus action.

[Dakar V]

Here Are Your 10 Most-Played Wii Games


In, what I am sure is a surprise to no one, WiiFit is nowhere to be found.

[Dakar V]

Bit o' news on when I logged on this morning.

1 vs. 100 Preview
I'm certainly curious to play, particularly with the lure of real prizes.

Conduit Multi Hands-on
The entire review is generally positive, and then they **** on it all at then end.

stogie doesn't lie.

[Stogieman]

I really need to play Bioshock before the sequel is release. BTW, my brother just hooked me up with free copies Bioshock, NBA 2K '08 & NHL 2k '08.

[Dakar V]

Sweet. You and I need to talk shop next Burnout session.

[Dakar V]

...and stogie jizzed in his pants.

1 vs 100 has one thing in common with every other Xbox 360 game. The massively multiplayer Xbox 360 game show will have Achievements.

...

Microsoft's plan for 1 vs 100 is for the multiplayer game show to run for 13-week seasons. Each season will offer players the chance to gain 200 Achievement Points. New season, new Achievements.

[mattyb]

I've been trying to figure out how Sony are going to ensure a decent gaming experience with MAG since Dakar posted his link. Where I work has a pretty decent network setup but at times it can be ... how can I put this : soiled underpants. I don't understand how they can ensure ~20fps for 256 players using ADSL or even cable connections. OK maybe in South Korea this might work but still.

Does the Sony equivalent to XBL use dedicated servers a la PC gaming? This sort of thing could not work on XBL because there is no way that your home connection could cope with the bandwidth requirements. Even 6vs6 in CoD4 can be taxing. What is the max that you can have in (for example) Halo3 online games? I've played on 64 slot CoD2 servers and it wasn't a pleasent experience. Dedicated LANs are required IMO.

[mattyb]

Oh My Deity.

Also amazing.

I liked the Wii for about 3 hours. Then sold it. I'm never off the Xbox with CoD4 or Fallout. It just never felt as much fun using the Wii.

[Hawkeye_a]

They sold more software on the Wii than on the DS !!! wow that is an accomplishment. Kudos for sure.

Im just a bit annoyed that third parties are still gimping their efforts on the system, and Nintendo at least for the past 18 months, seems to have abandoned the core market.

[Dakar V]

Wii Music - 2.65 million

This is why you can't have nice things.

[angelmb]

I haven't played it (not my thing) but the Wii Music packaging is really cool (european version).

[klb5090]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

...and stogie jizzed in his pants.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

This is why you can't have nice things.

The whole console wars thing aside..... i really don't see the correlation between:
-bad game sells
and
-good game will not sell

I do understand what you(and maybe third parties) are saying and probably believe, i just see no logic to it. How(and why) is it that, if a bad game sells to ~5% of the installed base is it not possible for developers to produce good games that can potentially appeal to the other ~95% of the console's ownership AS WELL ?

If third parties are too chicken to compete on a Nintendo platform even when the costs are lower and the installed base is roughly that of the XB360+PS3, just say so ... quit making imaginary excuses that make the niche hardcore gamer feel more secure with his/her more powerful console purchase, cause it's pretty obvious that with 54 million+ sellers on the console, that the demand for software is there.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

The whole console wars thing aside..... i really don't see the correlation between:
-bad game sells
and
-good game will not sell.

Why do you think it sold?

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

If third parties are too chicken to compete on a Nintendo platform even when the costs are lower and the installed base is roughly that of the XB360+PS3, just say so ... quit making imaginary excuses that make the niche hardcore gamer feel more secure with his/her more powerful console purchase, cause it's pretty obvious that with 54 million+ sellers on the console, that the demand for software is there.

While parts of that are true there is also the fact that lots of these next gen games for the 360 and PS3 can't be done on the Wii without a complete overhaul of the game. Halo, Killzone 2, GTA4, Call of Duty 4, etc none of these games can be done the way they were intended on the Wii, due to the hardware limitations. Forget 32/64/256 player LAN battles, 8 might be pushing it. Even all the graphics in Ghostbusters had to be changed for the Wii. They can't share much of anything from the 360/PS3 code base in a 3 console cross platform environment. If they do you get, (what you bitch about all the time, but understand) a crappy port. If they don't do this you are looking at 2 ports that are pretty similar and another game different than the original concept of the game. Some developers HAVE to address it as a totally different platform as it has nothing really in common with the 360 and PS3 on the hardware front. If you are a developer that wants to push the edge the Wii is not an option.

[Dakar V]

Don't play his game. The system has been out two years, but no matter what the 3rd party developers release and how well its rated, if it doesn't sell it's always their fault. Meanwhile, a poorly rated game (which no one was clamoring for) such as Wii Music sells two and half million copies.

I got news for you. The consoles are operating under some highly segregated demographics this generation, and if the Wii isn't satisfying all of your gaming appetite you need to buy another console or stop crying about it.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Why do you think it sold?

The same reason why ANY product sells. It appealed to ~5% of Wii console owners. Thats it.

But to use that to generalize about the other ~95% of Wii owners is just plain stupid.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Don't play his game. The system has been out two years, but no matter what the 3rd party developers release and how well its rated, if it doesn't sell it's always their fault. Meanwhile, a poorly rated game (which no one was clamoring for) such as Wii Music sells two and half million copies.

Which third party Wii titles do you own or would YOU buy ?

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

The same reason why ANY product sells. It appealed to ~5% of Wii console owners. Thats it.

But to use that to generalize about the other ~95% of Wii owners is just plain stupid.

But ANY product doesn't sell well on the Wii, does it? (And 2.5 million units, is a good amount of sales)

Here's a little food for thought:

Wii Music: 2.5 million units shipped in 6 months (Metacritic score - 63)
Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition: 1.25 million units shipped in 12 months (Metacritic score - 91)

Now last I checked, RE4 Wii has been pointed to as one of the prime examples of how to make a game for the Wii. And yet, even this well known series, which is popular in both Japan and the US, couldn't muster half Wii Music's sales in almost twice the time.

Also note that something more recent (COD: WaW) did not chart in comparison to Wii Music even though it has a metacritic of 83 (A full 20 points higher).

Do you see the trend? If you're a game from Nintendo or have the name Wii in your title, you will outsell established well-known third-party franchises that are rated significantly higher. I'm sure that just thrills 3rd party developers.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Which third party Wii titles do you own or would YOU buy ?

What does that have to do with anything?

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

But ANY product doesn't sell well on the Wii, does it? (And 2.5 million units, is a good amount of sales)

Here's a little food for thought:

Wii Music: 2.5 million units shipped in 6 months (Metacritic score - 63)
Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition: 1.25 million units shipped in 12 months (Metacritic score - 91)

Now last I checked, RE4 Wii has been pointed to as one of the prime examples of how to make a game for the Wii. And yet, even this well known series, which is popular in both Japan and the US, couldn't muster half Wii Music's sales in almost twice the time.

Also note that something more recent (COD: WaW) did not chart in comparison to Wii Music even though it has a metacritic of 83 (A full 20 points higher).

Do you see the trend? If you're a game from Nintendo or have the name Wii in your title, you will outsell established well-known third-party franchises that are rated significantly higher. I'm sure that just thrills 3rd party developers.

You site a port from the previous generation; RE4... which debuted on Nintendo's previous home console, and which has enjoyed a much higher attach rate on the Nintendo platforms than on the PS2. So, assuming attach rates, unit sales, revenues and profits are the goal, why make RE5 for every other console except for Wii ?

Call of Duty WaW was a good game on the Wii..... why didnt it sell ?i dont know for sure, but my guess would be marketing. Why did Madden or Tiger Woods sell better on the Wii than on the other systems ? those are established franchises as well, right ?

Your citation of Wii Music as a reason for third parties staying away from fully committing to the Wii is pretty illogical. Wii Music, has the one thing third parties are still not committed to investing on the Wii.... marketing dollars. Apart from Nintendo advertising it's system and games, i haven't seen any other Wii games advertised on TV. Bear in mind that, CoD WaW (XB360) had quite a big marketing push.

If Nintendo can sell a 'crap' game to ~5% the user base by marketing the hell out of it, why cant other publishers sell ports and cross platform games ? well many reasons....... 1 theyre ports of older games, lower production values(like Wii Music)...but unlike Wii music, they dont have any marketing to carry them to a larger section of the installed base (that is if you ignore Madden, Tiger, Lego SW, Lego Batman etc).

Cheers

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

What does that have to do with anything?

Well, you keep saying that all the 'good' third party games on the Wii don't sell. And seeing as how you claim to appreciate good games by judging them so, are they good enough for you to own and play ?

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

You site a port from the previous generation; RE4... which debuted on Nintendo's previous home console, and which has enjoyed a much higher attach rate on the Nintendo platforms than on the PS2.

Umm, link?

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

So, assuming attach rates, unit sales, revenues and profits are the goal, why make RE5 for every other console except for Wii ?

I can't speak for Capcom. But since you note that RE4 was a previous generation port, technological limitations may be a factor. It's also possible they're taking the time to make a good port (a la Chop til You Drop).

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Call of Duty WaW was a good game on the Wii..... why didnt it sell ?i dont know for sure, but my guess would be marketing. Why did Madden or Tiger Woods sell better on the Wii than on the other systems ? those are established franchises as well, right ?

Sell better or more? Yes, there is a difference, and that's where attach rate comes in. Also, what's the big difference between those two sports game and COD. Oh hey, it's demographic they appeal to. Lack of marketing also doesn't explain why it sold better on the PS3 than the Wii.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Your citation of Wii Music as a reason for third parties staying away from fully committing to the Wii is pretty illogical. Wii Music, has the one thing third parties are still not committed to investing on the Wii.... marketing dollars.

Did you see Wii Music advertised? I didn't. But I did see COD advertised. And on their generic commercials it shows all the game systems it can be purchased on.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Apart from Nintendo advertising it's system and games, i haven't seen any other Wii games advertised on TV. Bear in mind that, CoD WaW (XB360) had quite a big marketing push.

I saw SSB and MK advertised long ago, but recently when Madworld came out its ads were everywhere on TV. In the early going it didn't do them a damn bit of good.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

If Nintendo can sell a 'crap' game to ~5% the user base by marketing the hell out of it, why cant other publishers sell ports and cross platform games ? well many reasons....... 1 theyre ports of older games, lower production values(like Wii Music)...but unlike Wii music, they dont have any marketing to carry them to a larger section of the installed base (that is if you ignore Madden, Tiger, Lego SW, Lego Batman etc).

Well, taking your marketing for Wii Music at face value (I don't remember any ads), you have to remember Nintendo has far deeper pockets than most developers. That, combined with the 'halo' effect all their first party titles receive make releasing third party titles an uphill battle. I don't blame the developers for being choosy about what they do.


Final Note: You've now changed the argument from "3rd party developers would sell games on the Wii if they were good quality" a few months ago to "3rd party developers would sell games on the Wii if they marketed them more" now. Move the goal posts much?

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Well, you keep saying that all the 'good' third party games on the Wii don't sell. And seeing as how you claim to appreciate good games by judging them so, are they good enough for you to own and play ?

First, I think you're going to need to explain what italicized part means. I suspect nothing good.

[Hawkeye_a]

The argument has not changes. There is more than one ingredient to making a successful game. It's not production values or marketing or something else. it's everything. having one does not lessen the need for the other. Nor does having only one ensure success (commercial and/or critical).

Case in point.... Okami on the PS2.

For the purpose of this discussion, i am ignoring first party products from all companies, so SSBB, MKWii, Gears, Halo, Resistance, etc....are not included in these observations/analysis.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

First, I think you're going to need to explain what italicized part means. I suspect nothing good.

You say that when developers put effort into a core title on the Wii, which sees critical success, it does not sell well.

Well, since you claim said third party wii titles as being 'good'(example: RE4, CoDWaW, MadWorld, etc), and have not sold..... i wonder if you're just saying these titles are good or if you have actually voted with your money by buying them...... if so, kudos. if not, why not... surely if they're so good, they're worth buying, right ? I'm sorry if it's so confusing and complicated, but thats the simplest way i can put it.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

The argument has not changes.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

The way i see it.... you release a quality product and guess what...it will sell. heck if a dirty port of a GCN game(RE4Wii) can sell over a million... why cant games that have been developed after that sell nearly as much.

Your words, not mine.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

There is one ingredient to making a successful game. It's not production values or marketing or something else. it's everything. having one does not lessen the need for the other. Nor does having only one ensure success (commercial and/or critical).

A. Everything is not an ingredient, that's a finished product, so, terrible metaphor.

B. Here's two games that sold 2 million+ on the Wii: Deca Sports and Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games. Metacritic score? 50 and 67, respectively. I'd argue they were missing the "actually a good game" from their everything "ingredient".

(To be fair, Mario & Sonic is straddling the good game line, but we all know why it sold, anyway)

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

You say that when developers put effort into a core title on the Wii, which sees critical success, it does not sell well.

Well, since you claim said third party wii titles as being 'good'(example: RE4, CoDWaW, MadWorld, etc), and have not sold..... i wonder if you're just saying these titles are good or if you have actually voted with your money by buying them...... if so, kudos. if not, why not... surely if they're so good, they're worth buying, right ? I'm sorry if it's so confusing and complicated, but thats the simplest way i can put it.

You do know I don't own a Wii, right?

Or are you about to unleash the "How can you discuss this if you don't even have one?" fallacy?

[exca1ibur]

[sek929]

I played Dance Dance Revolution on the Wii last night, fun game despite a horrid menu system.

[Dakar V]

I didn't realize that game was still around. But since it uses a peripheral I see no other system it's better suited to sell on.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

You do know I don't own a Wii, right?

Or are you about to unleash the "How can you discuss this if you don't even have one?" fallacy?

Well...why not own a Wii ? the Wii has titles that are so good, and worth playing from third parties, right ? So how come, you have not deemed these titles good enough to play/own ?

My point here is.... you say good Wii games dont sell. well why do you to point a finger at other consumers who do not buy them, when you yourself dont buy them ? (i wonder what the reason is)

Are you implying that the games are 'good enough' for current Wii owners, but not good enough for you ? (ie...if they are as good as you claim.... why did you not buy them ?)

Not owning a Wii console is hardly a reason here, as the console is now quite easily available from what i hear.

Typo(from previous post)>> There is more than one ingredient to making a successful game

[Stogieman]

This thread is a lot like the movie Groundhog's Day.

[Stogieman]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Nintendo has shifted too far into the casual realm imo.

WiiFit, Wii Music, Animal Crossing, Mario Kart Wii, ExciteBots, PunchOut ? wtf..... seriously. Nothing announced from Factor5, Retro etc... in over a year. And all the GCN remakes (DK, Pikmin, MP, etc).

The last 'good'/'real' first party game was Super Mario Galaxy ..... almost 18 months ago.

So..... when should we expect to see you on xbox live? I got an empty spot waiting for you on my friends list.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Stogieman 

So..... when should we expect to see you on xbox live? I got an empty spot waiting for you on my friends list.

If Nintendo only focused on the casual, i was hoping the third parties could focus on the core with AAA budgets..... unfortunately they're too chicken.

I did consider getting the XB360 or PS3 early on. After HDDVD died and the RRoD fiasco... my interest shifted towards the PS3. The gaming advantage on both system seems balanced.

Im waiting for a redesigned, cheaper PS3 with backwards compatibility to the PS2. and to see the new game from team ico.

My resentment of Microsoft as a company aside, i dont like spending money on poorer quality products. (no offence)

In the mean time...... after using the Wii controller almost exclusively for gaming for the past couple of years..... i dread going back to the old controllers (the GCN controller included).

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Umm, link?

" According to January 17, 2007 sales figures provided by Capcom, the GameCube version of Resident Evil 4 has sold a total of 1.6 million units worldwide, while the PS2 version has sold over 2 million units.[60] With the release off the Wii - Version and its enhanced controls, the game sold a further 1.8 Million Copies, thus making Resident Evil 4 the best-selling title of its franchise, surpassing Resident Evil 2. As of January 2009, the title sold over 6 million copies total" - Link

Making the attach rate on the GCN the highest followed by the Wii and then the PS2. As far as unit sales, it had sold more on Nintendo platforms than on the PlayStation platforms.

But lets ignore those figures and focus development on systems with smaller installed bases, lower attach rates for the previous game in the franchise and which cost more to develop for. right ?

[starman]

I've been playing the Final Fantasy XIII demo on my PS3.

/drool

[starman]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

" According to January 17, 2007 sales figures provided by Capcom, the GameCube version of Resident Evil 4 has sold a total of 1.6 million units worldwide, while the PS2 version has sold over 2 million units.[60] With the release off the Wii - Version and its enhanced controls, the game sold a further 1.8 Million Copies, thus making Resident Evil 4 the best-selling title of its franchise, surpassing Resident Evil 2. As of January 2009, the title sold over 6 million copies total" - Link

Making the attach rate on the GCN the highest followed by the Wii and then the PS2. As far as unit sales, it had sold more on Nintendo platforms than on the PlayStation platforms.

But lets ignore those figures and focus development on systems with smaller installed bases, lower attach rates for the previous game in the franchise and which cost more to develop for. right ?

Still fudging the numbers to your advantage, I see. Things haven't changed.

[Hawkeye_a]

How am i fudging the numbers ? Thats the best info i could find regarding RE4 on the 3 consoles.... the derived relative attach rate is using current installed base estimates for each console (GCN~22m, Wii~50m, PS2~100m)

If you do have more accurate figures, please enlighten us, and 'unfudge' the numbers to your 'advantage' if possible.

But cheers for the hollow personal attack.... goes a long way to cementing your credibility.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Typo(from previous post)>> There is more than one ingredient to making a successful game

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

The argument has not changes. There is one ingredient to making a successful game. It's not production values or marketing or something else. it's everything. having one does not lessen the need for the other. Nor does having only one ensure success (commercial and/or critical)..

First, that is not a believable typo. I think you typed what you meant to type. Also, that statement made more sense in its original form. Still, its irrelevant thanks to your old quote:

The way i see it.... you release a quality product and guess what...it will sell. heck if a dirty port of a GCN game(RE4Wii) can sell over a million... why cant games that have been developed after that sell nearly as much.

There's been a lot better games out since then, and not a matching increase in sales even without factoring in the now higher install base.

---

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Link

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

But lets ignore those figures and focus development on systems with smaller installed bases, lower attach rates for the previous game in the franchise and which cost more to develop for. right ?

I was looking at the Resident Evil wiki page, and it looks like Capcom has been quite supportive of Nintendo last generation. So supportive that the GameCube was their lead platform, and they ported 4 to the PS2. So why would they change their story this generation? This is the best guess I could find:

according to the game's producer, Masachika Kawata, the Wii couldn't even handle the graphics of the game's introductory screen.

Judging from last gen's support (and some of this ones) I'd definitively say Capcom has nothing against Nintendo, so take that for what you will.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

How am i fudging the numbers ? Thats the best info i could find regarding RE4 on the 3 consoles.... the derived relative attach rate is using current installed base estimates for each console (GCN~22m, Wii~50m, PS2~100m)

If you do have more accurate figures, please enlighten us, and 'unfudge' the numbers to your 'advantage' if possible.

But cheers for the hollow personal attack.... goes a long way to cementing your credibility.

Sure, let's do some basic math.

" According to January 17, 2007 sales figures provided by Capcom, the GameCube version of Resident Evil 4 has sold a total of 1.6 million units worldwide, while the PS2 version has sold over 2 million units.[60] With the release off the Wii - Version and its enhanced controls, the game sold a further 1.8 Million Copies, thus making Resident Evil 4 the best-selling title of its franchise, surpassing Resident Evil 2. As of January 2009, the title sold over 6 million copies total" - Link

GC: 1.6m
PS2 - 2m+
Wii - 1.8m

Making the attach rate on the GCN the highest followed by the Wii and then the PS2. As far as unit sales, it had sold more on Nintendo platforms than on the PlayStation platforms.

What? I see the PS2 version with 2m+ as the highest. Did I miss some number fudging somewhere?

And for your second statement, you're CONVENIENTLY clumping in TWO DIFFERENT PLATFORMS.

God, this is why I don't come into this thread anymore. The fanboyism you've shown since the inception of this thread makes me sick. I'd rather argue with someone with a straight point of view than a fanboy who wants to make everything look good for Nintendo.

[Dakar V]

Attach Rate

[starman]

I know what an attach rate is. It doesn't really prove much. How many people with a Wii can even BUY Resident Evil?

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by starman 

God, this is why I don't come into this thread anymore. The fanboyism you've shown since the inception of this thread makes me sick. I'd rather argue with someone with a straight point of view than a fanboy who wants to make everything look good for Nintendo.

meh

moving on....

DakarV,
Yup.. i agree Capcom has been showing Nintendo some decent support this generation. Although, personally, i would have preferred SFIV than MH3.

Pointing out the RE4 figures was just to illustrate an example, where there is no apparent comprehensible business reason as to why a game(even mature) would not be released on the Nintendo console. If i remember correctly, when the GCN version of RE4 came out they said it would be impossible to port it to the PS2.....yeah.

Im not holding my breath until RE5 will be out on the Wii, cuase i dont think they will bring it out... but im just pointing out some rather strange decision making at work. If the guys making these games just want to 'showoff' cool technology that is appreciated by a niche thats cool....im just saying it would be a better investment(like the pS2 was) to cater to the biggest market as well.

Cheers

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

but im just pointing out some rather strange decision making at work. If the guys making these games just want t 'showoff' cool technology that is appreciated by a niche thats cool....im just saying it would be a better investment(like the pS2 was) to cater to the biggest market as well.

No one is going to write with a quill and ink when a ball-point pen is available. I guarantee almost every game ever made has had features cut because some just weren't feasible/possible to do with the technology available at the time; There's no reason to develop while pointlessly holding one hand behind your back. You know the drill: Core titles get developed on the best tech available, and then features get cut when(if) it's ported.

Now, here's the bad news for you: RE5 and SFIV did just fine (if not very well) on just the 360 and PS3. Which means Capcom can continue to ignore the Wii as a primary platform when developing its core titles (And can consider it an option for ports).

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

The whole console wars thing aside..... i really don't see the correlation between:
-bad game sells
and
-good game will not sell

I'll summarize than answer to the original question that got obfuscated over more posts than it should have as usual:

Wii owners have yet to display an ability to discern quality rated titles from bad ones and instead appear to rely purely on brand recognition (Nintendo) followed by a limited selection of genres (sports games) or demographic (Everyone). The numbers back-up these assertions and have already been posted above.

[Dakar V]

Atari pulls out of E3, current plans in question

Sounds like Atari (which isn't really Atari) might be the next company to kick the bucket.

[Stogieman]

As long as they don't kick the bucket BEFORE Ghostbusters is released next month.

[Dakar V]

It's too far along. I imagine their fate rests in its hands.