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You are here: MacNN Forums > Enthusiast Zone > Gaming > I wonder why piracy is such a big problem with Mac games...

I wonder why piracy is such a big problem with Mac games...
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Luca Rescigno
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Sep 26, 2004, 04:33 PM
 
Star Wars: Knights Of The Old Republic

For Windows

For Mac

Hmm. $50 for Mac users, $20 for Windows users. Similarly, Call Of Duty is $45 for the Mac version and $30 for the Windows version. Or Halo; that one is $47 for the Mac version and $25 for the Windows version. C&C Generals is $45 vs. $20. In fact, Windows users can also buy the $20 Zero Hour expansion, which is not even available to Mac users. So a Mac user gets just the original game, with no Mac to PC multiplayer allowed, for $45, while the Windows user gets the full game plus expansion for $5 less.

Well, at least the launch prices are the same. But I think it's ridiculous that Mac users get poorly-done ports of games that only run acceptably on the most powerful, expensive hardware, and meanwhile we also have to pay full price for months after PC users get a price break.

Oh well, this is why I bought a gaming PC.

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The iMac Man
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Sep 26, 2004, 05:16 PM
 
I understand what you are saying, but that's still no excuse to steal.

I think Lamborghinis are overpriced, but that doesn't mean I should go out and steal one.
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Weezer
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Sep 26, 2004, 05:26 PM
 
Originally posted by The iMac Man:
I understand what you are saying, but that's still no excuse to steal.

I think Lamborghinis are overpriced, but that doesn't mean I should go out and steal one.
I bet if you could download one you would

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Sep 26, 2004, 05:42 PM
 
And of course, there is absolutely no difference between copyright infringement and stealing, right? Both are wrong, and I wont condone piracy, but don't do the RIAA argument and say that they're the same.

I have to say that I wonder if Mac piracy is so much worse than PC piracy. The prices are higher because of the smaller platform = fewer potential buyers, and I think that Mac users pirate more of games that they feel they have a "right" to pirate (e.g. Halo, anything else by MS, etc).
     
Horsepoo!!!
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Sep 26, 2004, 05:42 PM
 
Originally posted by The iMac Man:
I understand what you are saying, but that's still no excuse to steal.

I think Lamborghinis are overpriced, but that doesn't mean I should go out and steal one.
Of course not...but not everyone shares your utopic point of view, unfortunately.

That's why there are wars, murders, and theft in the world.
     
Horsepoo!!!
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Sep 26, 2004, 05:43 PM
 
Originally posted by P:

I have to say that I wonder if Mac piracy is so much worse than PC piracy. The prices are higher because of the smaller platform = fewer potential buyers, and I think that Mac users pirate more of games that they feel they have a "right" to pirate (e.g. Halo, anything else by MS, etc).
Piracy rate is probably as high or higher on PC.
     
The iMac Man
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Sep 26, 2004, 05:48 PM
 
Originally posted by P:
And of course, there is absolutely no difference between copyright infringement and stealing, right? Both are wrong, and I wont condone piracy, but don't do the RIAA argument and say that they're the same.
In this case, they are exactly the same.

I don't care if you download the game, or go and steal it off the shelf at BestBuy, it is exactly the same thing.... you have TAKEN something that does not belong to you... that is stealing.
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Luca Rescigno  (op)
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Sep 26, 2004, 05:54 PM
 
When did I advocate stealing? All I said was that perhaps the root cause of the problem lies in Aspyr (or whoever else releases Mac games) charging up to 2.5x as much as the PC version.

Maybe you can make the Lamborghini vs. Ford Taurus argument when comparing Macs vs. PCs, but you can't make the same argument when comparing Mac games vs. PC games. It's the exact same thing you're buying, but the Mac version costs 2-3 times more than the PC version.

The case for Mac gaming is also hurt by the lack of a demo version for most games, and by the fact that whatever games do come out are released long after the PC version.

Anyway, I do admit I have pirated games on both platforms, but given the availability of so many fun games for so little money ($20 for KOTOR? Score), I think I'll be buying most of the games for my PC from now on. I can live without having the latest new thing for a few months if it means I can pick it up for $15-$20 rather than buying it for $50 new. So far that same thing has worked out well for my GameCube.

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cruciarius
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Sep 26, 2004, 06:21 PM
 
if more companies released their games for both PC and mac and not rely on a porting company to port years later, then this wouldn't happen..as much. plus games would probably stay the same price on both sides.

at least blizzard does their games PC/mac in 1 box. others should too.
     
Twilly Spree
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Sep 26, 2004, 06:23 PM
 
In my experience piracy is low on the Mac. At least AFAIK. I almost never download a game - I've done it on occation when the game is very very new and I'm too excited about it to wait or when it is so old I can't find it anywhere. I've bought more than 10 games (I'm not much of a gamer though) and never pirated a game that I want. I've bought it if I downloaded it earlier othewise I don't play it anyway.

Of the Mac people know one pirates everything and one never.

Of my many many PC using friends I can't think of one who doesn't pirate everything. Anecdotal evidence yes, but there you go.
     
Luca Rescigno  (op)
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Sep 26, 2004, 06:39 PM
 
I <3 Blizzard! I like how when I moved from the Mac to the PC for gaming, I could just use the same CDs and CD keys that I did before. They make excellent games that run well on both platforms, Battle.net is very good and cross platform (DirectPlay can suck it), and their long-term support is excellent. In many cases, pirating a game is actually more convenient than buying it, because most software companies (not just game companies) have terrible support. Blizzard challenges that and thus, they are successful where other game/software companies are not.

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Twilly Spree
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Sep 26, 2004, 06:53 PM
 
Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
I <3 Blizzard! I like how when I moved from the Mac to the PC for gaming, I could just use the same CDs and CD keys that I did before. They make excellent games that run well on both platforms, Battle.net is very good and cross platform (DirectPlay can suck it), and their long-term support is excellent. In many cases, pirating a game is actually more convenient than buying it, because most software companies (not just game companies) have terrible support. Blizzard challenges that and thus, they are successful where other game/software companies are not.
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Horsepoo!!!
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Sep 26, 2004, 07:04 PM
 
Originally posted by Twilly Spree:
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Indeed...if more companies were like Blizzard and viewed Macs as equals instead of being an after-thought ("Well, the PC version did well, let's milk some money out of those dumb Mac gamers"), there would certainly be less pirating going on.

The support Blizzard offers and the hybrid CD/price tag goes a long way. With that combination, there should be much less pirating. Blizzard also makes games that are only really fun to play on the internet. People could pirate Blizzard's games for solo-play but if you want to join the real fun, you can't pirate the game. That's another winning pirate-protection scheme.

Nobody in this forum is saying that pirating is a good thing. People that keep bringing back the "...but that's still no excuse to steal" phrase is going off on a tangent because that's not what we're talking about. Of course it's no excuse to steal but the stealing still happens and pirating won't end until there is some kind of terms the end-user can agree with.

Bringing games to the Mac, 6 months to a year after the PC version and charging an arm and a leg but then saying "...you have no excuse to steal" isn't going to stop the pirating. Charing less and making simultaneous releases has a better chance of reducing pirating though. It's not going to stop all of the pirating but it will certainly reduce it, I'm willing to bet, a lot.

Then it's up to the game developers to make games that have good copy-protection schemes (like Blizzard's) to stop the pirates that just pirate for no reason at all.
     
Luca Rescigno  (op)
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Sep 26, 2004, 07:09 PM
 
BTW, congrats on the green stars, Horsepoo!!!

Ditto on Blizzard's anti-piracy scheme. Yeah, you can get a serial number fairly easily but Battle.net is where it's at.

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FlammableYurt
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Sep 26, 2004, 08:18 PM
 
The reason why new games for the mac cost as much as they do is because they're being treated like new games. Yes, in most cases the game has been around for almost a year on other platforms, but when they were released on those platforms they also cost ~$45-50. The initial price is usually not based off of the first release of a game on its first platform, but based on the release date for the platfrom in question.

It wouldn't be worth it at all for companies to port games to OS X if they could only charge a measly $25 and then watch it depreciate from there. If you want them to charge less then you're also begging for many fewer titles released for macs...

Also, I doubt the time lapse has much to do with those porting the game. It has to do with monitoring success on PC, and then gauging whether or not it's worth it to port to the mac. For most non-blockbuster games, it very well might not be worth it to release mac and PC versions simulataneously. Very anticipated games, on the other hand, I think would actually benefit from having simultaneous releases - people on this end of the market would be more excited about it and you'd probably see more sales.

I do like Blizzard's policy, but you have to admit that they are in a rather unique situation. Almost every one of their games have almost cult followings... Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo... They are almost guaranteed to be succesful in the mac gaming market, so releasing all their games for both platforms works for them. And for other online games, if planning on releasing a mac version, they should definitely do their best to allow mac and PC users to play together, like Blizzard does. You just get more people that way. DirectPlay should be shot, in my opinion.

Just my two cents. Sorry for the rant
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a2daj
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Sep 26, 2004, 09:46 PM
 
Originally posted by FlammableYurt:
The reason why new games for the mac cost as much as they do is because they're being treated like new games. Yes, in most cases the game has been around for almost a year on other platforms, but when they were released on those platforms they also cost ~$45-50. The initial price is usually not based off of the first release of a game on its first platform, but based on the release date for the platfrom in question.

It wouldn't be worth it at all for companies to port games to OS X if they could only charge a measly $25 and then watch it depreciate from there. If you want them to charge less then you're also begging for many fewer titles released for macs...

Also, I doubt the time lapse has much to do with those porting the game. It has to do with monitoring success on PC, and then gauging whether or not it's worth it to port to the mac. For most non-blockbuster games, it very well might not be worth it to release mac and PC versions simulataneously. Very anticipated games, on the other hand, I think would actually benefit from having simultaneous releases - people on this end of the market would be more excited about it and you'd probably see more sales.

I do like Blizzard's policy, but you have to admit that they are in a rather unique situation. Almost every one of their games have almost cult followings... Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo... They are almost guaranteed to be succesful in the mac gaming market, so releasing all their games for both platforms works for them. And for other online games, if planning on releasing a mac version, they should definitely do their best to allow mac and PC users to play together, like Blizzard does. You just get more people that way. DirectPlay should be shot, in my opinion.

Just my two cents. Sorry for the rant
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You've got a pretty good understanding of why the Mac publishers do what they do. They have to recoup the development and licensing costs for the newly released Mac version of the games they port. Sometimes the timeliness of the ports are due to issues getting source code from the original developers. Sometimes deals are signed before the PC version is finished and the game ends up bombing. But because they paid for the port they can't just dump the game *COUGHTombRaiderAODCOUGHSpiderMan2COUGH*.
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madmacgames
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Sep 27, 2004, 01:38 AM
 
Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
Star Wars: Knights Of The Old Republic

For Windows

For Mac

Hmm. $50 for Mac users, $20 for Windows users.
Star Wars KOTOR came out on PC about 10 months ago. It has not even been out for 1 month on Mac. You no doubt have good intentions in this post, but your logic is highly flawed.


Additionally, the Mac version is published by a different company that the PC version. for arguments sake, lets just assume that both the Mac publisher and PC publisher have similar business practices and similar budgets (thought that is a HUGE assumption to make). So then let's compare KOTOR for Mac to a new/upcoming Lucas Arts game for PC. How about KOTOR 2? $50 for PC. And Star Wars Battlefront? $50 for PC. New releases on Mac are priced competitively to new releases on PC (it does not matter when it came out on PC; it is just NOW coming out on Mac). As well, KOTOR was also $50 when it first was released on PC.

Wait about a year and the price of KOTOR for Mac will probably be down to around where it is on PC now (by that time of coarse it will probably be $10 on PC).

Point is, you will pay a new release price for a new release game no matter what platform it is for. There are plenty of games for Mac that were released a year to 2 years ago that at one time were priced $40-50 and are now sub-$20 and sub-$30. And there are plenty that were released over 2 years ago that are now sub-$20 and sub-$10. Same is true for PC.
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Sep 27, 2004, 09:43 AM
 
With the costs involved in porting a game and the limited number of gamers who use Macs as a platform, we are lucky to get any ported titles at all. The reality is that Aspyr (insert the Mac Game company of choice) is running a business to provide popular PC titles to Mac users. They need to be able cover costs. They have porting costs, support costs, marketing costs, etc. They could not charge prices similar to the PC releases that have been on the shelf for months (and recovered the major costs of production). Just buy titles at the end of the mac sales cycle, and you will see the same price saving. Buying older is always buying cheaper.
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Sep 27, 2004, 10:24 AM
 
Originally posted by webb3201:
With the costs involved in porting a game and the limited number of gamers who use Macs as a platform, we are lucky to get any ported titles at all. The reality is that Aspyr (insert the Mac Game company of choice) is running a business to provide popular PC titles to Mac users. They need to be able cover costs. They have porting costs, support costs, marketing costs, etc. They could not charge prices similar to the PC releases that have been on the shelf for months (and recovered the major costs of production). Just buy titles at the end of the mac sales cycle, and you will see the same price saving. Buying older is always buying cheaper.
Ok...but with their high price tags, they don't seem to be selling a whole lot of games as a lot of people are resorting to piracy. Can't they try giving Mac users a reasonable price tag?

Lower the price and they will buy.

Apple has the same problem: charge the consumer an arm and a leg to recoup dev/production costs. But that's probably the biggest reason why Apple only has 2.5% marketshare.

Aspyr et al can recoup costs if they lowered the price because, then, more people would likely buy their **** ports. (****? that's another story altogether which I won't get into because a2daj always loses it when I talk about the quality of a port.)
     
Luca Rescigno  (op)
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Sep 27, 2004, 11:27 AM
 
Well, maybe they do need to charge a little extra, but must they really charge so much extra? Especially when the quality of the ported game is lower than the quality of the original. It runs poorly (usually), it probably won't be able to use any of the mods available for the game, it won't have a number of other options (such as enabling Pixel Shader 1.4 instead of 2.0 to speed things up in Halo), in some cases it doesn't even have multiplayer capability (C&C), and patches/updates/expansions are either not available at all, or delayed compared to the PC version.

I can see why they're charging initial launch prices for these games, but maybe they'd get more business if they reduced those prices a bit. On the other hand, I think it would be even better if porting companies focused on getting just two or three REALLY WELL DONE ports out the door every year, instead of trying to do eight or ten half-baked ones. I mean, if every game ran as well as Call Of Duty or Warcraft III, maybe Mac gamers would be more respected and understood. But you get things like C&C Generals, Black Hawk Down, Battlefield 1942, and the Medal Of Honor expansions, and you wonder how anyone can possibly be a satisfied customer after purchasing one of those games for $40-$50. Maybe the company got that one sale, but I wonder if they'll get future sales.

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U n i o n 0015
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Sep 27, 2004, 11:28 AM
 
Like others mentioned, KOTOR is a NEW Mac release--it makes sense for it to be $50. Now if it's $50 a year from now, then that is not on par with what the Xbox and PC versions are priced. Both the PC and Xbox versions were $50 when they came out. I paid full price for the Xbox KOTOR (didn't mind too).

But I don't believe piracy on Mac is as bad as it is on PC. It's gotta be worse over there, just look at how many titles are available. The number of Mac gamers is already small, and only a fraction of that must have the knowledge of how to get the games.

But just an FYI, KOTOR is totally worth $50. One of the best games I've played in years. Plus, I feel like I'm supporting Mac developers when I buy their game. Call it a strange perception, but when I see one of their employees taking the time to post on a message board like this, that gives me a good view of the company. They're out there talking to gamers and Mac people. PC devs tend to get holed up (especially with the bigger corporations) and never respond to the gamers.
     
a2daj
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Sep 27, 2004, 11:58 AM
 
Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
Well, maybe they do need to charge a little extra, but must they really charge so much extra? Especially when the quality of the ported game is lower than the quality of the original. It runs poorly (usually), it probably won't be able to use any of the mods available for the game, it won't have a number of other options (such as enabling Pixel Shader 1.4 instead of 2.0 to speed things up in Halo), in some cases it doesn't even have multiplayer capability (C&C), and patches/updates/expansions are either not available at all, or delayed compared to the PC version.

I can see why they're charging initial launch prices for these games, but maybe they'd get more business if they reduced those prices a bit. On the other hand, I think it would be even better if porting companies focused on getting just two or three REALLY WELL DONE ports out the door every year, instead of trying to do eight or ten half-baked ones. I mean, if every game ran as well as Call Of Duty or Warcraft III, maybe Mac gamers would be more respected and understood. But you get things like C&C Generals, Black Hawk Down, Battlefield 1942, and the Medal Of Honor expansions, and you wonder how anyone can possibly be a satisfied customer after purchasing one of those games for $40-$50. Maybe the company got that one sale, but I wonder if they'll get future sales.

Then you have even more folks (like you) whining that we don't get enough games or they're way late compared to how they are now and that they're charging too much for the game. The Mac publishers are in a no win situation. Two or three ports a year doesn't make sense at all, especially considering the fact that many of their ports get contracted out to different companies. Most ports only need 1-3 people max. Putting more people on a project does not necessarily make things better. Unless you have a firm understanding of what goes on in the porting process I don't think it's at all fair to claim that a smaller number of games a year will make for better Mac gaming.
     
Luca Rescigno  (op)
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Sep 27, 2004, 12:51 PM
 
Okay, then let me rephrase.

If their porting jobs were of higher quality, they would sell more. I suggested fewer per year because I thought that might make it easier to do, but I really don't care how they go about doing it. I can't afford to buy more than a few games a year anyway, at least at their full launch prices. So I'd prefer if those few games be done really well, and not appear rushed or half-done. If that means they'll take longer or there will be fewer done, so be it. For me at least, quality beats quantity. But that's really up for the porting houses to decide. I'm just giving my opinion.

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Sep 27, 2004, 01:15 PM
 
Well, I think it's an excuse by most game companies as they try and find a reason not to support the Mac platform. Show me some independent, hard facts and maybe I'll recant, but until then...

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TheBadgerHunter
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Sep 27, 2004, 01:17 PM
 
Originally posted by The iMac Man:
In this case, they are exactly the same.

I don't care if you download the game, or go and steal it off the shelf at BestBuy, it is exactly the same thing.... you have TAKEN something that does not belong to you... that is stealing.
No no no, takes means that you have removed it from its original owner, aka they no longer possess it. In the case of piracy, an incredibly stupid term intended to make it seem evil, only the seller is losing the money. Money which they probably wouldn't have gotten anyway. So if you want to get technical about it if you had no intention of buying it you are having no effect whatsoever.

People pirate for one reason: because they CAN. Halo was stupefyingly easy to crack into. Not only that but it was months until it became difficult to get on multiplayer with a cracked version. Same with C&C, KOTOR, Call of Duty, etc.

Now look at a shareware game like Gish. Very popular. Droves tried to pirate it but a lot couldn't because it uses a unique key generated serial. Yes, a keygen did allow a lot of people to pirate it but those numbers were minimized.
     
goMac
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Sep 27, 2004, 02:36 PM
 
Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
If their porting jobs were of higher quality, they would sell more. I suggested fewer per year because I thought that might make it easier to do, but I really don't care how they go about doing it. I can't afford to buy more than a few games a year anyway, at least at their full launch prices. So I'd prefer if those few games be done really well, and not appear rushed or half-done. If that means they'll take longer or there will be fewer done, so be it. For me at least, quality beats quantity. But that's really up for the porting houses to decide. I'm just giving my opinion.
This is chicken before the egg. If less people pirated they would probably have more money to do higher quality ports.
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Sep 27, 2004, 02:47 PM
 
Originally posted by goMac:
If less people pirated they would probably have more money to do higher quality ports.
You are assuming that if a pirated version was not available, that those that do pirate would have just bought the game� Assumptions are not necessarily a bad thing, but this one is based on nothing.

So let's all just stop assuming. You're all just making asses of yourselves.
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Luca Rescigno  (op)
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Sep 27, 2004, 02:58 PM
 
But, if more people bought the game and they got more money, they'd assume people are happy with what they're offering and maybe not change anything! See, it's a tough situation. I think the problem is that neither group (game developer/porter/publisher and the gamers themseves) has respect for the other. So you get gamers who steal the games instead of buying them because they have no respect for the porting companies, and you get companies that make crappy ports because they have no respect for the gamers and would rather churn out a dozen crap games than a few good ones, because that's the only way they'll sell more. It's a viscious circle, and it continues because game developers don't trust gamers and vice versa. Neither side is really any more to blame than the other.

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goMac
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Sep 27, 2004, 05:48 PM
 
Originally posted by madmacgames:
You are assuming that if a pirated version was not available, that those that do pirate would have just bought the game� Assumptions are not necessarily a bad thing, but this one is based on nothing.

So let's all just stop assuming. You're all just making asses of yourselves.
I think everyone can agree that if pirating did not exist there would at least be a few extra copies of games sold. I don't think pirating is responsible for people using games. If you look at most games that are pirated, they're pretty much games you "can't live without". Otherwise, you don't keep them and they end up in the trash. If there was no pirating, you'd be forced to buy the games you can't live without.

Pirating is wrong in any light. You are cheating the developer out of money they worked for. You cannot justify pirating.
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Sep 27, 2004, 06:22 PM
 
Originally posted by goMac:
[B]I think everyone can agree that if pirating did not exist there would at least be a few extra copies of games sold.
I think obviously if a pirated copy was not available that some people would buy it instead of not having it� but that doesn't mean EVERYBODY will go out an buy it, which seems to be what many people try to throw out as a fact.

Originally posted by goMac:
Pirating is wrong in any light. You are cheating the developer out of money they worked for. You cannot justify pirating.
I was not in any way justifying it.
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goMac
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Sep 27, 2004, 08:13 PM
 
Originally posted by madmacgames:
I think obviously if a pirated copy was not available that some people would buy it instead of not having it� but that doesn't mean EVERYBODY will go out an buy it, which seems to be what many people try to throw out as a fact.
Sure, but those extra sales always mean a bit more money for the publisher, and more is always better...
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a2daj
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Sep 27, 2004, 08:25 PM
 
Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
But, if more people bought the game and they got more money, they'd assume people are happy with what they're offering and maybe not change anything! See, it's a tough situation. I think the problem is that neither group (game developer/porter/publisher and the gamers themseves) has respect for the other. So you get gamers who steal the games instead of buying them because they have no respect for the porting companies, and you get companies that make crappy ports because they have no respect for the gamers and would rather churn out a dozen crap games than a few good ones, because that's the only way they'll sell more. It's a viscious circle, and it continues because game developers don't trust gamers and vice versa. Neither side is really any more to blame than the other.
You're basing your argument on the assumption of no respect between parties and that they purposely kick out bad ports because of the lack of respect. That's ridiculous. Mac publishers do respect gamers. Why else would Glenda or others involved within the Mac gaming industry visit forums and interact with the gamers? Yes, they are a business first and foremost, but they're also Mac users. They understand that we want quality ports. They do the best they can. Some bad ports do make it through
     
fiesta cat
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Sep 27, 2004, 08:30 PM
 
Originally posted by Twilly Spree:
Of the Mac people know one pirates everything and one never.

Of my many many PC using friends I can't think of one who doesn't pirate everything. Anecdotal evidence yes, but there you go.
This has been my experience. I could go off on this whole "Mac users feel a moral obligation to support Mac software financially" spiel, but I'll save you. Most Mac users I know buy the software they can, especially shareware.

That's one thing that shocked me when I made the total switch. I noticed I bought a lot more shareware, and I noticed many Mac users did as well. I don't recall that much shareware being bought by PC friends.
     
Brad Oliver
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Sep 27, 2004, 08:52 PM
 
Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
If their porting jobs were of higher quality, they would sell more.
That's a ballsy statement, particularly in the case you mentioned at the start of this thread - KOTOR. It's an excellent OSX citizen, supporting windowed and fullscreen modes and it has totally remastered DVD-quality cutscenes, something which can only be found on the Mac version.

Or did you have some other point to make?
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Sep 27, 2004, 09:31 PM
 
Maybe the really hardcore gaming market really is PC and consoles. While I'm only an ocassional gamer, I've been more than happy with Jedi Outcast and so far with Jedi Academy. I do wish we could get Mac ports sooner, but I'm happy to pay my share of the porting and marketing costs. Maybe I'm just a sucker, but there you go. That said, I would have bought two games instead of one last week if they were half the price.

I've heard of hacked XBoxes with thousands of copied games on their hard drives, so is piracy worse in the console market?
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Luca Rescigno  (op)
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Sep 27, 2004, 09:49 PM
 
Originally posted by Brad Oliver:
That's a ballsy statement, particularly in the case you mentioned at the start of this thread - KOTOR. It's an excellent OSX citizen, supporting windowed and fullscreen modes and it has totally remastered DVD-quality cutscenes, something which can only be found on the Mac version.

Or did you have some other point to make?
No, actually I haven't played the Mac version of KOTOR, though I'm planning on picking up the PC version.

What I meant was that generally, Mac ports run a lot slower than their PC equivalents. I understand that a lot of this has to do with certain limitations that you can't circumvent. There's no Mac version of Direct3D, and obviously there is going to be a performance hit from running a game that wasn't originally written for the Mac. I doubt a 2.0 GHz G5 with a 9600 Pro would run most games as well as my 2.0 GHz Athlon with a 9600 Pro. Some Mac games are very speedy, like Call Of Duty or Warcraft III. But others (C&C Generals, Unreal Tournament 2004) run very, very slowly compared to their PC versions. I think it's great that there are some nice Mac-only features in the port of KOTOR, but it gets really frustrating when my upgraded PowerMac with a Radeon 9800 can just barely give me playable framerates in a large number of games. That's why I'm getting some cash from downgrading my G4, and using a PC for games instead.

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Brad Oliver
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Sep 27, 2004, 10:11 PM
 
Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
What I meant was that generally, Mac ports run a lot slower than their PC equivalents. I understand that a lot of this has to do with certain limitations that you can't circumvent. There's no Mac version of Direct3D, and obviously there is going to be a performance hit from running a game that wasn't originally written for the Mac. I doubt a 2.0 GHz G5 with a 9600 Pro would run most games as well as my 2.0 GHz Athlon with a 9600 Pro.
In the specific case of KOTOR, it uses OpenGL on the Mac and the PC. You'll also find that, presuming you're using 10.3.4 or higher, your G5 will perform very comparably to an equivalent PC when playing KOTOR.
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Luca Rescigno  (op)
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Sep 27, 2004, 11:03 PM
 
Actually I have a PowerMac G4 with a 1.33 GHz processor upgrade in it. I think a big problem with me is that a lot of games seem to be CPU bound. Upgrading to the 9800 didn't really help much, and I know people with slower graphics cards but faster processors who run most games a lot faster than my computer can.

Ah well, it doesn't really affect me, I'm already seeing about selling the 9800 since my PC can handle games so much better than my Mac. I'm just too much of a gamer to be satisfied by the Mac.

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Sep 29, 2004, 10:37 PM
 
The problem is simple. The Macintosh platform is so small they have to charge launch title prices just to make any profit. I don't have any numbers but I would bet the best selling game for the Mac would only sell about 45,000 copies. I bet the porting house only gets like $3 from each sale and that might be way to high. That means that they would get about $130,000 to $140,000 when everything is said and done. It may seem alot but after payroll and bills that is probably one months of operating expenses. Anyway the reason Blizzard develops games for the Mac is mostly out of kindness. The Mac sales will cover the development cost of the game and that�s it. The PC game market is HUGE and developers are still dropping like flies. It costs Millions of dollars to develop these new 3D games with crazy long CG movie cut scenes. The only studios that are surviving are ones that have big money war chests and major corporate backing. Blizzard and ID are the last left to their own devices game houses. Even these Mac porting houses have to pay many programmers high salaries too. The only thing we can hope for is Apple keeps making kick ass computers and raises its market share. That will bring better drivers, hardware, and developers over.

Piracy is going to happen anyway. You can't stop it. All you can do is release a good quality product and hope that it gets a good following. Incorporating copy protection that is effective but not an annoying problem for legit users is the key. CD Keys for play online that actually makes the game have much more replay value is great. Blizzard has this one down. It also helps that they actually give a **** and won�t release a game without putting their blood sweat and tears into it.
     
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Sep 30, 2004, 12:54 AM
 
I think the gaming industry in general is to focused on graphics. The two best games I know is Deus Ex and Unreal Tournament. I also like StarCraft and WarCraft II, and also Red Alert and these kinda games. I think the gaming companies for Mac would have made alot more money if people could actually play a game on their 2 years old iMac. And maybe even on their 4 years old iMac.

When it comes to piracy. I see that there is a big difference between you living in the states and us from Europe. Atleast i Norway we think more that piracy of software is not so bad, since it is free to duplicate software. No resources used, except for bandwidth. I think like this, but I buy the games I like. Like all the Blizzard games Most games are bad on PC and Mac, you ask me. I want more Classics. Red Alert for Mac, and maybe a port of C&C to OS X in the same package would be a kick ass selling "machine" for mac.
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