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How's that cease-fire? Abbas refuses to disarm terrorists
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ians_arms_dc_1
GAZA (Reuters) - The Palestinian Authority reiterated Wednesday it had no intention of disarming militants despite constant Israeli calls for such a move and a recent pledge to crack down on unlicensed weapons.
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vmarks interjects:
so much for pledges from the PA being worth anything.
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The announcement came amid growing friction between armed factions and security forces following the arrest of two Hamas men after a gunfight Monday night. The militants were accused of planning to attack Israel in defiance of a cease-fire.
"We have no intention of withdrawing arms of resistance," Rashid Abu Shbak, the head of the internal Preventive Security Service, told a news conference in Gaza.
Abu Shbak specifically rejected Israel's request for a start to disarmament before it hands over the last three of five West Bank cities it was to return to Palestinian security control under a February truce agreement.
Abu Shbak said militants must still honor their commitment to the cease-fire agreed by President Mahmoud Abbas and should not take their weapons out in public.
"Arms of resistance should not be displayed in streets. Arms of resistance should not be used in family feuds. Arms of resistance should not kill a woman who goes out with her fiance," he said, referring to the recent killing by two Hamas militants of a woman they accused of immoral behavior.
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And meanwhile Israel continues building the wall, expanding the settlements, and killing Palestinian kids. Yet you have the gall to attack Abbas.
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To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
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As a supporter of the rights outlined in the Second Amendment to the US Constitution and a belief that self-defense is as basic human right as the right to life itself, I cannot find fault with Abbas on this one, even though nothing analogous to the Second Amendment exists in that region of the world. His efforts should focus on defanging the terrorist groups, not disarming individuals. These two principles are independent of each other.
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You are in Soviet Russia. It is dark. Grue is likely to be eaten by YOU!
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His pledge was to collect unlicensed arms. The terrorists use unlicensed arms smuggled in from the likes of Egypt and elsewhere. He is violating his pledge.
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Originally Posted by Millennium
As a supporter of the rights outlined in the Second Amendment to the US Constitution and a belief that self-defense is as basic human right as the right to life itself, I cannot find fault with Abbas on this one, even though nothing analogous to the Second Amendment exists in that region of the world. His efforts should focus on defanging the terrorist groups, not disarming individuals. These two principles are independent of each other.
And that especially applies when your land is occupied by foreigners. A ceasefire is about not attacking each others. Disarmament can come later when the people of the land is free.
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To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
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Originally Posted by vmarks
His pledge was to collect unlicensed arms. The terrorists use unlicensed arms smuggled in from the likes of Egypt and elsewhere. He is violating his pledge.
When did he say that?
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To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
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from the story:
"a recent pledge to crack down on unlicensed weapons."
which also says that he refuses to disarm them of their unlicensed weapons.
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To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
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Originally Posted by von Wrangell
And meanwhile Israel continues building the wall, expanding the settlements, and killing Palestinian kids. Yet you have the gall to attack Abbas.
Oh, the wall to protect Israeli kids from being killed by your precious Palestinians- tell it to Tali Huetel and her kids, shot point blank seatbelted in their car, tell it to the kids in the kindergarten in Sderot who had Qassams launched at them.
And while you're at it, tell it to the Palestinian kids with bombs strapped to them who Israel arrests and defuses, unharmed.
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Originally Posted by von Wrangell
I asked when he said it.
January 28th 2005.
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Originally Posted by vmarks
Oh, the wall to protect Israeli kids from being killed by your precious Palestinians- tell it to Tali Huetel and her kids, shot point blank seatbelted in their car, tell it to the kids in the kindergarten in Sderot who had Qassams launched at them.
And while you're at it, tell it to the Palestinian kids with bombs strapped to them who Israel arrests and defuses, unharmed.
Easy solutions:
1. Build the Wall on your own land.
2. Don't build colonies in foreign lands.
3. Don't occupy foreign lands.
Why is it that you can't accept that? Why do you have to build the wall on other peoples land? Why do you need to build colonies on other peoples land? Why do you need to occupy other peoples land?
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To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
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Originally Posted by vmarks
January 28th 2005.
Got a link? I'd like to read about it and see what he said.
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Was that really necessary?
but thanks for the links.
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To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
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Israel should ready the bombs, as I do not believe in peace with the palestinians.
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Originally Posted by von Wrangell
Easy solutions:
Why is it that you can't accept that? Why do you have to build the wall on other peoples land? Why do you need to build colonies on other peoples land? Why do you need to occupy other peoples land?
It's not their land. The areas in question are disputed.
If the "palestinians" ever get their own country remains to be seen.
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Originally Posted by vmarks
All those links basically say the same as the first article in this thread days. Ban on carrying weapons openly. Nothing about disarmament of the Palestinian people.
But lets say you are right. How are an un-armed Palestinian police force(mostly due to Israeli restrictions on giving them more weapons) supposed to disarm groups like Hamas and Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade?
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To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
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Originally Posted by PacHead
It's not their land. The areas in question are disputed.
If the "palestinians" ever get their own country remains to be seen.
They are disputed by Israel and the US no one else.
Human rights say that every single human being has a right to choose his citizenship and a right to a homeland.
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To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
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Originally Posted by von Wrangell
They are disputed by Israel and the US no one else.
Human rights say that every single human being has a right to choose his citizenship and a right to a homeland.
Terrorists have no human rights, IMO.
The palestinian homeland is jordan BTW.
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Originally Posted by PacHead
Terrorists have no human rights, IMO.
The palestinian homeland is jordan BTW.
We aren't talking about terrorists. We are talking about the Palestinian people. And even if we include the terrorists human rights apply still today. Your opinion is irrelevant.
And where is the Jordanian homeland?
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To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
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Originally Posted by von Wrangell
And where is the Jordanian homeland?
Jordan belongs to the "palestinians". "Palestinians" are just like their neighbors, they're not a seperate group of people.
The Palestine Liberation Organization has often declared Jordan a part of Palestine, and occasionally lays formal claim to it. The eighth conference of the Palestine National Council (PNC), meeting in February-March 1971, resolved that "what links Jordan to Palestine is a national bond and a national unity formed, since time immemorial, by history and culture. The establishment of one political entity in Transjordan and another in Palestine is illegal."
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/298
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Originally Posted by von Wrangell
Your opinion is irrelevant.
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Originally Posted by PacHead
Jordan belongs to the "palestinians". "Palestinians" are just like their neighbors, they're not a seperate group of people.
The Palestine Liberation Organization has often declared Jordan a part of Palestine, and occasionally lays formal claim to it. The eighth conference of the Palestine National Council (PNC), meeting in February-March 1971, resolved that "what links Jordan to Palestine is a national bond and a national unity formed, since time immemorial, by history and culture. The establishment of one political entity in Transjordan and another in Palestine is illegal."
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/298
So you are saying that all the Palestinians should just pack their belongings and move to Jordan? And I thought that one of the reasons to create Israel was to stop the diaspora not create a new one.
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To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
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Is that a deja-vue I'm experiencing, I could swear that you opened a very similar thread just a few days ago with nearly the same title, vmarks, haven't you? If yes, why didn't you post that "new" news there?
But on topic: I think it is a good idea not to try to disarm militants at this point of time, that would be suicide and would lead probably to civil-war. What the PA is trying to do at this point is a good plan, namely to create a sort of mythology around the arms, so that rules regarding their use can be established. To call this arms "arms of resistance" is a clever trick, so that the PA can define terms of use of them, namely only in cases of real resistance when attacked by settlers or israeli forces for purposes of defense..
Then the PA is justified to disarm and emprison those militants that use their arms in cases that are not covered by a defensive resistance, for example when militants use them to blackmail or attack palestinians or when militants start provocative attacks against israeli civilians...
It's an intelligent tactic if followed through which should secure the popular support of the mass of palestinians that want law and order restored. Should the peace-process continue the PA should work towards integrating the militants into the official palestinian army and at the same time allow the political groups of the militants to take part in the democracy, which should tackle the problem once and for all, if God wills.
Meanwhile Israel's army killed two teenagers that protested against the wall and threw stones against israeli soldiers:
Palestinian activists named the dead teenagers as Jamal Jaber and Uday Mofeed.
They said the protest began against the destruction of farmland for the construction of the barrier that Israel is building - often jutting deep into the occupied West Bank.
The Stop the Wall group says protestors were chased by Israeli soldiers using live ammunition.
Crowds of villagers then swarmed onto the streets in an effort to protect them, but troops followed and continued shooting, the group says.
'Violation'
The Stop the Wall group says the two boys were evacuated by ambulance to Ramallah, but both bled to death before they reached hospital after being held up by Israeli troops at a permanent checkpoint.
"This is a violation of the ceasefire. Israel is looking for excuses to raise tensions and to depart from implementing... understandings," Palestinian official Nabil Abu Rdeina told Reuters news agency.
Israel says its West Bank barrier, a network of fortified fences and concrete walls, is a defence against Palestinian suicide bombers.
Palestinians say the barrier is a means of cementing Israel's hold on occupied Palestinian land.
Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4516229.stm
Taliesin
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