[ebuddy]

I'd never want to air my dirty laundry in a public forum and please understand how difficult this is for me personally, but on a Saturday morning my contact options are limited and I know there are at least a few resident experts here. I'm absolutely flummoxed.

My 16 yr old honor student and otherwise allegedly "perfect" daughter was caught shoplifting here locally. An officer was contacted who then contacted my wife. Much to my chagrin, my wife did not drop everything to go meet with the officer at the time. (afaik, more options are often available at that time)

It is possible that my daughter will be charged as an adult. The sum total of stolen merchandise was around $15.00. This occurred on Thursday night and we have citation in hand. I've googled 'til my head hurts including local state law, but cannot find information detailed enough to make comfortable decisions going forward. In short, my intent is to give my daughter a second chance regarding her criminal history. i.e. I do not want any permanent scars on my daughter's history.

- diversion classes have been given to us as an option and while the charge itself may not be apparent and we won't have to appear in court, the diversion itself remains on record. (please correct any misunderstanding here) This does not sound like a second chance. To an employer (or employee recruiter as I have been), this diversion may as well be a no-contest plea and implies guilt regardless. She'd be lucky to get a telemarketing job with this on record.

- Shopko's Retail Theft Civil Liability Noitice reads as follows;
Criminal Charges are pursued by the local prosecutor's office (or, in cases involving minors, the authorities who handle juvenile matters). Any criminal penalties (that is, fine, jail sentence, probation) are determined by the criminal court. ShopKo will cooperate with the prosecutor's office in their prosecution of retail theft charges resulting from theft from our stores. However, ShopKo does not make decisions with regard to criminal charges or criminal penalties.

I have already planned to take the child to ShopKo for an apology to security and management personnel because I think that's the right thing to do for my daughter and ShopKo, but does this mean there is absolutely no chance that I could go to ShopKo with hat in hand and urge them to drop the charges?

- Can ShopKo even drop the charges at this point?
- If "yes", what is the next step?
- If "no", what is this "diversion" all about and are there permanent implications with it?

To sum up; I realize my daughter gets what she deserves and I can only assure you that regardless of the official civil outcome, this is being addressed.

[zro]

Let me preface this by stating I am no shoplifting or criminal law expert.


I don't believe they can drop the charges, no. Would not hurt to ask, though. But let the judge know she went down to apologize. In the end that's the guy (or gal) you really need to feel good about your daughter, and is probably the only one who would.

[iranfromthezoo]

Actually dealing with this late last year with some relatives about this but they totally denied the charge with video evidence.

I think going up there is a great idea. It shows that you actually care about what your daughter does in life. I know that in Mississippi that if you shoplift as a minor of something under $1,000 it will never be a an adult charge unless something serious happened. The judge will usually issue a fine. I do know that in Mississippi along with other states that once you turn 18 everything on your record is sealed and NO ONE can EVER find out what happened. The best thing to do is to honestly show the judge you and your daughter are doing everything possible to make it right and do everything in good faith and they will show a lot more leniency than some kid who just gets up and says they are sorry and will never do it again but the only thing they did was show up to the court.

What state do you live in?

btw if it was $15 of merch then it would cost more to prosecute than to just drop the charges.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by iranfromthezoo 

Actually dealing with this late last year with some relatives about this but they totally denied the charge with video evidence.

I think going up there is a great idea. It shows that you actually care about what your daughter does in life. I know that in Mississippi that if you shoplift as a minor of something under $1,000 it will never be a an adult charge unless something serious happened. The judge will usually issue a fine. I do know that in Mississippi along with other states that once you turn 18 everything on your record is sealed and NO ONE can EVER find out what happened. The best thing to do is to honestly show the judge you and your daughter are doing everything possible to make it right and do everything in good faith and they will show a lot more leniency than some kid who just gets up and says they are sorry and will never do it again but the only thing they did was show up to the court.

What state do you live in?

btw if it was $15 of merch then it would cost more to prosecute than to just drop the charges.

I'm in Nebraska. I will be going to ShopKo tonight for the apology.

[ebuddy]

Thanks infromthezoo and zro for your replies.

Any additional feedback others could give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again all!

[ghporter]

Some retailers are so adamant about preventing shoplifting that they prosecute ALL shoplifters, even if it costs thousands of times as much as the merchandise was worth.

If your daughter is not in denial over the incident, it would be very helpful for HER to go with you and PERSONALLY submit a very sincere and thorough apology. An offer to compensate the store for their time and efforts would also be helpful. If their corporate policy is to press charges no matter what, you'll need a lawyer-get one NOW. You might be able to use your daughter's history as a "good kid" to get her record sealed and expunged at age 18, even if she's convicted. Note that there's no state in the country that will prosecute a $15 theft as more than a misdemeanor, so she may have some public service to do, and probably a nice big fine, but that should be the extent of it. She SHOULD be so mortally embarrassed by the whole incident that she never even jaywalks again (but that's just my dad voice talking...).

Good luck.

[turtle777]

I can hardly imagine that for $ 15, you daughter would get a permanent entry in her criminal record.

But if this is that much of a concern, see a lawyer.

-t

[macintologist]

A misdemeanor won't ruin your life. Felony? Yes. Misdemeanor? No.

[Cold Warrior]

If you can't get it dropped, hire a good lawyer to try to get it categorized as a juvenile offense, plead guilty or no contest, with the option to have the record sealed AND later expunged IF your daughter stays out of trouble. Expungement should totally wipe the record, and your daughter will be able to answer 'no' to future job questions if she is asked, Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense? This wouldn't apply if she joined the armed forces or applied for a job that requires a security clearance.

My 2 cents of amateur advice. Always consult your attorney.

[♥]

They can drop the charges.

And if it were my kid, I'd take him down there, red-faced and embarrassed, and make him apologize to the manager/owner.

I'd also get him/her into counseling right away so that IF it goes to court, the court/prosecutors will be impressed that you're not ignoring the issue. Seriously, I read somewhere once that 40% of all people have, at some point in their lives, shoplifted. I have...I remember once not telling a cashier that I had something underneath the cart. Granted, I realized it when I got to my car and was unloading the cart, but I realized it and didn't say anything. Guess that makes me a criminal too. (It was a 12-pack of soda.)

Good luck, guy.

[ebuddy]

You guys are great and I appreciate the info.

[mduell]

Have your daughter pay for a lawyer.

Will give you the best outcome (lawyers know a hell of a lot more than this board), and will teach your "honor student" (how is that even relevant?) a lesson in finance.

[torsoboy]

You may want to check out the free legal advice forum here: Free Legal Advice in 100+ Law Topics - Law Attorney

I got in trouble a few times when I was a kid for shoplifting (once for a candy bar, once for a pez candy/toy, once for big league bubble gum, I guess i had a hard time learning from my mistakes)... the most serious thing that happened to me was that I was made to do 8 hours of service in the store I stole from, paid for the candy I stole, and never set foot in the store again. Those charges were at grocery stores and not department stores, so I probably got off lighter than your kid will.

[israces]

Originally Posted by iranfromthezoo 

I do know that in Mississippi along with other states that once you turn 18 everything on your record is sealed and NO ONE can EVER find out what happened.

No. Sealed, expunged, erased, cleared, etc., really mean nothing like what you think. It's all still stored, it's just got a different label on it. Generally, if someone really wants to find a record that has been reported as expunged, erased, sealed, etc., they just need to know where to look. It's even easier now that the records are electronic. They may delete the original, but the electronic backups are still in storage. On the other hand, incompetence is still pretty prevalent, so you do have a chance of the record being misfiled, lost, or accidentally destroyed.

To the OP: instead of getting legal advice from a message board, go hire a lawyer, that's what they're for. You also might want to consider letting the lawyer handle the legal side of things, so you can spend your energy on finding out what is going on in your daughter's life. Is this a warning sign of bigger issues, or is it just a peer pressure kids being kids kind of thing? Best of luck.

[freudling]

To the OP:

I understand that you want your daughter to have a clear record. But please keep in mind, you cannot stop your daughter from making the choices she makes. It is not your fault, by the sounds of it, that she stole (she did not have to steal out of hunger, for instance).

Unfortunately, that is what laws are for and she is guilty of an offence. You have to accept it. People don't feel sorry for you or your daughter because she has an A average in school. She stole something from a store, and that owner is likely pixxed.

[Paco500]

No matter the cost- go get the best lawyer you can afford as soon as possible. And you have my sympathies.

[turtle777]

Definitely make your daughter pay part of the legal cost.

She has to learn that you will not bail her out w/o her taking financial responsibility as well.

-t

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Have your daughter pay for a lawyer.

She doesn't earn enough.

Will give you the best outcome (lawyers know a hell of a lot more than this board)

There are lawyers on this board.

... and will teach your "honor student" (how is that even relevant?) a lesson in finance.

Mentioning "honor student" was intended to show some naivete on my part, to illustrate the investment my daughter has gambled, and in the remote hopes that someone else had run into a similar situation. I'm sure as a parent you could understand that one may look for a more desirable outcome for their daughter than an adult, criminal misdemeanor on file for life over $15.00 in stolen underwear @16. I have the number of a lawyer and will be in contact with him during their business hours on Monday. I'm trying to shore up as much info as I can in the meantime. You might know that I'm not only woefully disappointed by all this, but motivated to control as much damage as I can.

I appreciate your advise however.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Definitely make your daughter pay part of the legal cost.

She has to learn that you will not bail her out w/o her taking financial responsibility as well.

-t

I certainly agree. Having her accept partial monetary contribution to this is a given as far as I'm concerned, but I do appreciate the parental advise.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by freudling 

To the OP:

I understand that you want your daughter to have a clear record. But please keep in mind, you cannot stop your daughter from making the choices she makes. It is not your fault, by the sounds of it, that she stole (she did not have to steal out of hunger, for instance).

Unfortunately, that is what laws are for and she is guilty of an offence. You have to accept it. People don't feel sorry for you or your daughter because she has an A average in school. She stole something from a store, and that owner is likely pixxed.

I understand all of the above. I'm also partially aware that there are more or less desirable outcomes in these situations. While "accepting it" is certainly part of the process, giving in to the least desirable outcome is not an option IMO.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by israces 

To the OP: instead of getting legal advice from a message board, go hire a lawyer, that's what they're for. You also might want to consider letting the lawyer handle the legal side of things, so you can spend your energy on finding out what is going on in your daughter's life. Is this a warning sign of bigger issues, or is it just a peer pressure kids being kids kind of thing? Best of luck.

To the first point, I'll be in contact with a particular lawyer during his business hours on Monday. I'm trying to get as much understanding as I can in the meantime.

To your additional points- Time spent here does run the risk of taking time away from the family and while 90% of my time here is early morning when they're in and out of the shower and/or late at night when they're in bed-I've cut back this year for this very reason. I'm actively involved in my daughter's life, but this has been a bitter pill for me to swallow personally. I've generally been a firm believer in the "apple falling from the tree" theory and that issues like these are symptoms of larger issues that can often be followed back to the parents.

I honestly believe in this case it was the "thrill factor". The only bright side is when this thrill ends such as it has, they are less likely to offend again statistically. I've tried to remember that there is a balance between being your kids' "friend" to keep lines of communication open and being a staunch disciplinarian ensuring your children tell you nothing. I've tried to ride this balance the best I can, but there are always ways I can be more available and do a better job. You gotta know I'm looking at those ways now.

I appreciate your reply.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

You may want to check out the free legal advice forum here: Free Legal Advice in 100+ Law Topics - Law Attorney

I got in trouble a few times when I was a kid for shoplifting (once for a candy bar, once for a pez candy/toy, once for big league bubble gum, I guess i had a hard time learning from my mistakes)... the most serious thing that happened to me was that I was made to do 8 hours of service in the store I stole from, paid for the candy I stole, and never set foot in the store again. Those charges were at grocery stores and not department stores, so I probably got off lighter than your kid will.

I appreciate the personal testimony and I hope YOU LEARNED YOUR LESSON! I'll be checking out your link and thanks for your help.

[pooka]

Man, I would highly recommend a good juvenile attorney. At the very least get a consult. Trust me when I say the right one can make things happen. Seriously, in my experience, these assholes all usually hang out together anyway. During my "troubled" childhood, a good attorney saved my ass on many occasions. Most the time, "deals" were struck before stepping in front of a judge.

That said, make sure your daughter is humble as hell in court (if it goes there). Play up her grades and intentions to go to college to become a vet or something. Apple pie all the way.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

stolen underwear @16

Was it at least sexy underwear?

[CMYKid]

Dont beat yourself up too badly over this either...perhaps not all but almost all juvenile girls shoplift. I'm really not kidding.

[subego]

Wow. What a drag.

I just wanted to add, even though you have probably already gone in to have your daughter apologize, this is an extra good idea because the possibility of a criminal prosecution is going to hinge on whether the store wants to waste time by providing witnesses, etc. A/K/A how much they feel you and your daughter deserve a smackdown.

As much as the authorities may want to prosecute, it's not going to get anywhere without cooperation from the store.

[♥]

I agree with subego. The store has discretion.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by ♥ 

I agree with subego. The store has discretion.

To ♥, CMYKid, subego, pooka, freudling, Paco500, ghporter, infromthezoo, torsoboy, and everyone else that has contributed; thank you all very much. We're all headed to ShopKo to apologize.

[subego]

Good luck!

[iranfromthezoo]

good luck. tell us how it went if thats alright.

[CMYKid]

...that was certainly the worst part of things when I got caught heisting minutiae as a kid, the going to the store manager and apologizing.

I certainly made sure NOT to get caught in the future!

[freudling]

To the OP:

Call that free help line and extract as much info as you can. But, don't expect too much either since those free lines are typically uninformative and cold.

As for the $15 of stolen goods, and the difficulty with which to accept a criminal record as a result, look at it from the laws eyes. Stealing is stealing, and they do not know how many times she has done this before, or how many more times she would likely do it again. Punishment is a deterrent, and, unfortunately, it has landed in the lap of your daughter. If you have the money, seek legal counsel fast.

[wallinbl]

Took a diversion class once. No record at all. (Florida)

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by Paco500 

No matter the cost- go get the best lawyer you can afford as soon as possible.

I can actually see this making it worse. I had this same charge once when in college. I showed up in court and was sent to a different room with a bunch of other people. We were all told that since amount was small and it was a first offense, we were being offered the chance to take a class, do some community service and have no record at all. Showing up with a lawyer might offend an otherwise generous DA/judge.

I'd be surprised if she ended up with an actual record from this. Despite all of the negative press, I do believe that the legal system understands that there are mistakes made, especially when the amount is small. Do it again, and you'll want a lawyer.

[hyteckit]

No way would anyone be charged with a felony for stealing $15 worth of underwear. No way would a 16 year old be charged as a adult for stealing a $15 of merchandise.

Depending on the state, there are limits to the amount of the merchandise before it it consider a felony.

It's just an empty threat. The store basically want you to pay for the $15 for the merchandise and a certain amount for their trouble. Ask the store manager to see if there is anything you can do or what she can do.

Normally, they would just agree to have you purchase the merchandise and your daughter to never step foot in the store again.

[mitchell_pgh]

I would do a number of things:

Make your daughter apologize to the store manager in person. If she won't, you have other issues to worry about as well.

You should also apologize to the store manager and to the arresting officer (in person if you can).

Ask both of them if there is any way that the charges can be dropped if she does community service or some other activity. Pull the "she's a very smart girl that did a very dumb thing, and I would hate to see her record tarnished because of a stupid act." Also, convey that you don't take this lightly... and that you are punishing her in your own way (no drivers license for a year, etc. etc.).

You need to make this very personal... make sure the store manager knows who you are, has your number, etc. etc. It's easy to F over some girl on a police report, it's hard to do the same to a caring family.

[Rumor]

You could also try speaking with the DA or ADA in charge of the case. (Sorry if it was already mentioned here). As well as have her apologize to the store manager. Even if the store decided to drop charges, the DA has the option to pursue them. The DA has the option of dropping the charges all together as well.

[Cold Warrior]

If you're in a big city, get ready for a struggle. People there are far more bureaucratic and do not empathize with others they do not know.

If you're in a small town, you'll probably have more luck.

[Rumor]

As a punishment, I wouldn't recommend taking away her allowance.

Sorry, I had to do it.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

As a punishment, I wouldn't recommend taking away her allowance.

-t

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by freudling 

As for the $15 of stolen goods, and the difficulty with which to accept a criminal record as a result, look at it from the laws eyes. Stealing is stealing, and they do not know how many times she has done this before, or how many more times she would likely do it again. Punishment is a deterrent, and, unfortunately, it has landed in the lap of your daughter

The law doesn't have eyes; it has agents, and those agents are human beings. You seem to have some strange ideas about how the law works in America. It's entirely possible in many cases to get punishments whittled down by showing contrition and trying to make amends. In a situation like this, it may even be possible to get the charges dropped completely if you appeal to people's better nature. Many people don't really want to give a good kid a criminal record for one stupid mistake.

[freudling]

Chuckit:

And how do you know she is a 'good kid'?

[ebuddy]

Update;

We went in and apologized. Her apology was sincere and to the point. I offered for us to do whatever it was I could to help the store, the officers, security, and managers. I explained that my daughter is now aware of the chain-effect of stealing, who it affects, and what the long-term implications of it are. No one that was involved in the incident was there yesterday, but the on-duty manager graciously accepted the apology.

I asked if it were possible at all for ShopKo to dismiss the charges and if there was anything I could do to urge them to do so. He mentioned that he's only been a manager for a couple of months and that he'll have to contact Loss Prevention management for policy. He also added that he understands my concerns as a parent of daughters himself and will do what he can. Unfortunately, he also added that he was previously a manager at BestBuy and their policy was firm. We're going to keep working on this and I'll let y'all know what's up as I find out.

Thanks again all.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Chuckit:

And how do you know she is a 'good kid'?

For one, because the vast majority of kids out there are. In this they are "miniature adults" learning consequences for actions, sometimes the easy way and sometimes the hard way. That said, no one could know for certain and we're certainly subject to their policy and their willingness to work this out.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

I would do a number of things:

Make your daughter apologize to the store manager in person. If she won't, you have other issues to worry about as well.

done.

You should also apologize to the store manager and to the arresting officer (in person if you can).

Apologized to the store manager, but the arresting officer was not available.

Ask both of them if there is any way that the charges can be dropped if she does community service or some other activity. Pull the "she's a very smart girl that did a very dumb thing, and I would hate to see her record tarnished because of a stupid act." Also, convey that you don't take this lightly... and that you are punishing her in your own way (no drivers license for a year, etc. etc.).

Done and pretty much in this precise manner.

You need to make this very personal... make sure the store manager knows who you are, has your number, etc. etc. It's easy to F over some girl on a police report, it's hard to do the same to a caring family.

The manager has my name, address, phone number, and email. The manager is also in a caring family and he seemed to empathize with the issue. We'll see if that can translate into anything concrete. This is a larger city and I'm concerned that their rules are pretty hard and fast. Policy is policy and while exceptions can be made, my expectations are realistic. We're certainly going to try to make this right though.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

This is a larger city and I'm concerned that their rules are pretty hard and fast. Policy is policy and while exceptions can be made, my expectations are realistic. We're certainly going to try to make this right though.

The law really is not black and white. Why do you think that minorities complain that justice isn't fair? Because the DA and the judge will make judgment calls about what to do, and sometimes that can leave the impression (right or wrong) that those calls are racially motivated. Reality is that these two people have the power to make things disappear. I know a fair number of people that have been in your situation (myself included) and have no record to show for it. I don't know what exactly is on my record, but I was told by the clerk of court that there would be nothing. I have survived background searches for employment. I was told that this wouldn't be the case if I did it again, but if the record is truly gone, I'm not sure how they know I did it before.

I was 19 when it happened, so I had no need to tell my parents. I did not get an attorney - my intent was to go into court and own up to what I had done in hopes of getting leniency for honesty and remorse. I didn't get the chance, as I was dealt with in a large group (50 or so people) and given the chance to take a course and do community service.

Be careful not to tell your daughter that you'll 'take care of this' or try to 'make it go away', even if that's what you're trying to do. If she does get out of it with no record, leave her with the impression that she was lucky and that they won't let her off a second time. You don't want her thinking that you will protect her from consequences because you don't want her thinking she can do it again, and you don't want her to hate you if you can't get her off the second time.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Chuckit:

And how do you know she is a 'good kid'?

Don't need to. For small crimes, the system will assume 'good kid' the first time. I think that is actually how I would prefer that they handle it. It's better to send a warning and avert many future crimes without major damage to the person than it is to give them a criminal record and limit their ability to work for the rest of their life. By criminalizing them and limiting their ability to work, you run the risk of turning them bitter and causing them to commit more crimes because they have a hard time getting work. Despite it not being the 'letter of the law', it is a policy that makes excellent sense.

[villalobos]

I am not going to help you much because my shoplifting days were in a different less procedurial and police-state country than the US, but when my friend and I got busted in a supermarket. We got embarassed by the staore manager in front of her mother who was with us. Then they let us go. I was 10 year old. Needless to say I have not done that again.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Chuckit:

And how do you know she is a 'good kid'?

How do I know that anybody isn't a base criminal just waiting to rob me? If they seem good, haven't done anything badly wrong and don't have a criminal record, it seems fair enough to assume.

[macintologist]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

No way would anyone be charged with a felony for stealing $15 worth of underwear. No way would a 16 year old be charged as a adult for stealing a $15 of merchandise.

Depending on the state, there are limits to the amount of the merchandise before it it consider a felony.

In Wisconsin it's $2500