[Big Mac]

I'm not sure I like where Apple's going with this updated Mail interface. The objective is to make it more iTunes-ish, in order to stress the new smart folders functionality, that much is obvious. Something about these pictures just strikes me as being askew, not quite right. Perhaps its the fact that we now have four (not three, four, remember the pro apps) disparate interface types, and a sub-variations on each one at that. I realize everyone else mentioned the same point, but I need to vent a bit too.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

What is that little pie graph in the inbox for the new mail app all about?

[lngtones]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
What is that little pie graph in the inbox for the new mail app all about?

I would assume to show used/free disk space for IMAP servers.

[nforcer]

Originally posted by monkeybrain:
The drawer works fine? Close the drawer, maximise Mail to fill the screen, then open the drawer - hey wait the drawer opens off the screen.

I suppose that wouldn't be too hard for Apple to fix, since sheets can already take into account window positions and how to appear on screen.

[nforcer]

Originally posted by SoClose:
So, to answer your question, Windows is not beating us in interface consistency now. Just wait until the new Longhorn UI gets thrown into the mix!

Good to know. Thanks.

[Chris Grande]

Originally posted by SoClose:
Look at where Windows apps put their access to preferences/options: different in every app!

Is that every true! Edit -> Preferences, Edit -> Options, Tools -> Options, Tools -> Accounts, Edit -> Options! My favorite is Quark! Edit -> Preferences -> Preferences. In this regard alone Apple is 100 years ahead of MS and all Windows Apps. Its made the switch for people I know so easy, its in the same place in every app, and in a very logical place for that matter.

In the words of UI consistency we are years ahead, Microsoft doesn't even like their own UI and continues to invent new ones on a per app basis, look at Office 2003 for an example of this.

[Superchicken]

You know, I think Jobs just has multiple personality disorder, and one of them likes Aqua the other likes Aluminum... and now he's in Therapy so things should cool down.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Anyone have the Mail pictures? They were pulled from AI.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Anyone have the Mail pictures? They were pulled from AI.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...0&pagenumber=2

[oranjdisc]

Here's one:

http://unusualstudios.fnw.us/tyler/mailflaws.png

[King Bob On The Cob]

Originally posted by oranjdisc:
Here's one:

http://unusualstudios.fnw.us/tyler/mailflaws.png

He wrote "No Outbox"
That's probably because it's the INBOX window.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by oranjdisc:
Here's one:

http://unusualstudios.fnw.us/tyler/mailflaws.png

Oh brother.

[OwlBoy]

AI stated that those were real shots that had to be photoshopped to remove the sources identity.

-Owl

[yaro]

It is strange this build has not yet made it to B, C or H yet. They really have clamped down on this build. Good for them.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by yaro:
It is strange this build has not yet made it to B, C or H yet. They really have clamped down on this build. Good for them.

Why on earth should they be releasing 10.4.1, 10.4.2, or 10.4.8 builds, respectively, already?

[BuonRotto]

Originally posted by Big Mac:
I'm not sure I like where Apple's going with this updated Mail interface. The objective is to make it more iTunes-ish, in order to stress the new smart folders functionality, that much is obvious. Something about these pictures just strikes me as being askew, not quite right. Perhaps its the fact that we now have four (not three, four, remember the pro apps) disparate interface types, and a sub-variations on each one at that. I realize everyone else mentioned the same point, but I need to vent a bit too.

I think what you're seeing is the beginnings of a revised Aqua appearance, not a fourth appearance. For the three different appearances, they all pretty much act the same, save the draggable areas in metal windows. There's also custom stuff in the iLife apps (but then again, Pro apps have custom elements too, and Aqua supports custom classes) that makes it seem like we have different UIs.

[lngtones]

Huge gradient title bar! Apple copied these guys!!!



Discuss...

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally posted by lngtones:

Discuss...

How about we don't but say we did.

[TheSpaz]

Like... wow... Gradients... Man, Microsoft must have invented gradients or something... I can't believe Apple would copy something as big as that... Shame on Apple and their stupid gradients. Bah.

I'm switching to Windows... at least they know how to make a proper gradient.

[Brass]

Originally posted by TheSpaz:
Like... wow... Gradients... Man, Microsoft must have invented gradients or something... I can't believe Apple would copy something as big as that... Shame on Apple and their stupid gradients. Bah.

I'm switching to Windows... at least they know how to make a proper gradient.

Yep... and after MS patent the gradient, you'll be paying them for it with any operating system you use that has gradients.

[monkeybrain]

Originally posted by mdc:
quicktime 6.6 has that new controller over fullscreen. on one of the quicktime preferences screenshots there is an "animate to fullscreen" (or something option)
a. i wonder what this animate looks like?
b. does this mean quicktime 6.6 will have fullscreen or is it only for quicktime 6.6 pro?

New pics on Appleinsider show the fullscreen option as a 'pro' feature. That's pretty disappointing. Imagine a switcher; they open a movie file and want to view it fullscreen, but find they have to pay for this simple feature! There should be no need to pay or download a free alternative (VLC, Nice Player - which a switcher would not be aware of without reseaching) to do this. Apple really need to be on feature-par with Windoze media player.

[TETENAL]

Originally posted by Brass:
Yep... and after MS patent the gradient

You can not patent a gradient. It's a design not a technical invention.

[LightWaver-67]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
You can not patent a gradient. It's a design not a technical invention.

Hence it being a joke...

[UnixMac]

Originally posted by lngtones:
Huge gradient title bar! Apple copied these guys!!!



Discuss...

In 24 years of "personal computing" and playing around with Apple and Microsoft stuff (from Apple II and DOS 2.1, to Windows XP Pro and OS X).. I've never known of a single instance where Apple copied anything from Microsoft. No hyperbole, just my honest recollection.

[Moose]

Originally posted by UnixMac:
I've never know of a single instance where Apple copied anything from Microsoft. No hyperbole, just my honest recollection.

Fast User Switching.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by Moose:
Fast User Switching.

Yeah, having multiple users simultaneously logged in was never done before Windows XP... X Windows, for example, was never able to do this...

[Millennium]

Originally posted by Moose:
Fast User Switching.

Not a Microsoft invention.

If you want a case of Apple copying Microsoft, look at the combo-box UI widget. A horrible idea, but Apple ripped it wholesale.

[Brass]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
You can not patent a gradient. It's a design not a technical invention.

You cannot patent A gradient, but you can bet MS will patent THE gradient. Ie, any particular gradient is a design aspect, but using gradients at all, is a technical invention as far as the GUI is concerned.

(BTW... are you serious?)

[Moose]

Originally posted by Millennium:
Not a Microsoft invention.

The concept might not be, but Apple ripped the implementation straight from XP.

[TETENAL]

The standard OS X toolbar is also a ripoff of Internet Explorer:mac's toolbar.

[Geobunny]

You know all those promo images that Apple band about the place? You know, the ones without alpha channels and heavy anti-aliasing? Someone posted one here on about page 1 or 2. Why can't the real interface be like that? It looks so much sharper and clearer.

BTW, are the blue corners optional? From a graphic designer's point of view, I imagine the colour would be quite distracting (mind you, I'm a developer, not a graphic designer. What would I know?!)

[klinux]

Originally posted by UnixMac:
In 24 years of "personal computing" and playing around with Apple and Microsoft stuff (from Apple II and DOS 2.1, to Windows XP Pro and OS X).. I've never known of a single instance where Apple copied anything from Microsoft. No hyperbole, just my honest recollection.

Sure, Apple is the innovator on many things but hardly everything. As others have said, FUS is copied from XP. Apple was also late to the game for having a journaled file system. Also, WinXP had TCP/IP over firewire from day one. The list goes on.

In any case, I am not too interested on who copied what thing as good software all copy good features from one another i.e. Lookout (now owned by MS) has had the search everything feature long before Google Desktop long before Spotlight (to be released in H1 05).

[King Bob On The Cob]

Originally posted by klinux:
Sure, Apple is the innovator on many things but hardly everything. As others have said, FUS is copied from XP. Apple was also late to the game for having a journaled file system. Also, WinXP had TCP/IP over firewire from day one. The list goes on.

In any case, I am not too interested on who copied what thing as good software all copy good features from one another i.e. Lookout (now owned by MS) has had the search everything feature long before Google Desktop long before Spotlight (to be released in H1 05).

Much like Launchbar had for lets say... the last 6 or 7 years with NeXT?

[diamondsw]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
The standard OS X toolbar is also a ripoff of Internet Explorer:mac's toolbar.

Ahem. IE based their toolbar on the Aqua appearance, which Apple had allowed them to see prior to its public launch.

Now, if you want something that Apple did copy, how about contextual menus.

[Zadian]

Originally posted by diamondsw:
[BNow, if you want something that Apple did copy, how about contextual menus. [/B]

Who used contextual menus first? I know that NeXT Step used them in 1990, but i don't think NeXT invented them.
So, who invented the contextual menus? I doubt it was Microsoft.

[monkeybrain]

Originally posted by diamondsw:
Ahem. IE based their toolbar on the Aqua appearance, which Apple had allowed them to see prior to its public launch.

But toolbars in the public beta and before of OS X were quite different from those in 10. The style of toolbar that did ship with 10 was very much like that in IE.

[Mediaman_12]

Originally posted by diamondsw:
Ahem. IE based their toolbar on the Aqua appearance, which Apple had allowed them to see prior to its public launch.

Now, if you want something that Apple did copy, how about contextual menus.

Wasn't that version of IE out before Apple even released the OSXPB?
but remember the toolbar in the OSX PB was fixed, with rectangular 'buttons', the ones in the 'pre Aqua' builds looked more like the old simple finder buttons.

[TETENAL]

Originally posted by diamondsw:
Ahem. IE based their toolbar on the Aqua appearance, which Apple had allowed them to see prior to its public launch.

Internet Explorer 5 was released (with this kind of toolbar) long before Aqua was ever showed. I remember Steve proudly saying that the Carbon port of Internet Explorer automatically got the Aqua appearance "even though we never showed Aqua to Microsoft before".

[nforcer]

Originally posted by UnixMac:
In 24 years of "personal computing" and playing around with Apple and Microsoft stuff (from Apple II and DOS 2.1, to Windows XP Pro and OS X).. I've never known of a single instance where Apple copied anything from Microsoft. No hyperbole, just my honest recollection.

I believe Windows had the feature where you can click on a menu once and not have to hold the mouse down to navigate adjacent menus before Mac OS 8 (or the Appearance Extension) did.

As someone else noted, I think Windows had the combo box control before OS X (but I don't think it's a bad interface element if used properly... like for recent searches).

I think Windows Wallpaper (the ability to include full images, not just image patterns as System 7 desktop patterns offered) was available before Mac OS 8 came out.

I read somewhere that supposedly Apple or Jobs was inspired to do Aqua when they saw and used Internet Explorer 5 for Mac (which had pinstripes, a sliding sidebar, a toolbar customizable with drag and drop, and aquaish buttons). I'm not sure if it is true, but IIRC IE 5 was released sometime before Mac OS X DP 3 or 4 (whichever release first introduced Aqua), and I doubt MS would have had a preview of Aqua when they did IE 5 for Mac (which was released back in the days of OS 8.5 - 9 I think).

And another Microsoft interface "innovation" was Clippy, but obviously that one was too stupid for anyone to copy

[JLL]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
Internet Explorer 5 was released (with this kind of toolbar) long before Aqua was ever showed. I remember Steve proudly saying that the Carbon port of Internet Explorer automatically got the Aqua appearance "even though we never showed Aqua to Microsoft before".

Originally posted by nforcer:
I read somewhere that supposedly Apple or Jobs was inspired to do Aqua when they saw and used Internet Explorer 5 for Mac (which had pinstripes, a sliding sidebar, a toolbar customizable with drag and drop, and aquaish buttons). I'm not sure if it is true, but IIRC IE 5 was released sometime before Mac OS X DP 3 or 4 (whichever release first introduced Aqua), and I doubt MS would have had a preview of Aqua when they did IE 5 for Mac (which was released back in the days of OS 8.5 - 9 I think).

IE 5 was released in March 2000, Aqua was revealed in January 2000.

[TETENAL]

Originally posted by JLL:
IE 5 was released in March 2000, Aqua was revealed in January 2000.

This is what the toolbar looked like in DP3 (2000-01). It only later mimicked the one of Internet Explorer 5.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally posted by nforcer:

I read somewhere that supposedly Apple or Jobs was inspired to do Aqua when they saw and used Internet Explorer 5 for Mac (which had pinstripes, a sliding sidebar, a toolbar customizable with drag and drop, and aquaish buttons).

No that is not true, aqua was shown first. I was all excited to get IE because it would be my first shot at using Aqua.

[nforcer]

Originally posted by JLL:
IE 5 was released in March 2000, Aqua was revealed in January 2000.

Thanks for the correction. Didn't know IE 5 was released that late.

[BuonRotto]

Originally posted by nforcer:
And another Microsoft interface "innovation" was Clippy, but obviously that one was too stupid for anyone to copy

straying further off-topic, clippy was the last vestage, along with the search dog, of Microsoft's failed "Bob" OS for consumers.

There are plenty of things Apple and Microsoft have" stolen" from one another. Some of the bigger ticket items were originally Apple's of course, but when you get down to details, they've used each other as a resource for ideas often enough. A lot of former Apple UI/design people work at MS too.

[Peabo]

Actually IE 5 was demo'd at Macworld SF 2000 along with Mac OS X and it had the pin-striped interface. Steve said that before that day Microsoft had never seen Aqua.

So I guess apple did copy it

[Big Mac]

I wonder if we can possibly get this thread back on topic.

[Cap'n Hector]

Re: all the stuff about Mail's drawer popping out.

Yes, the sidebar pops open, too.

Re: Mailflaws.png or whatever it was

The outbox is there ONLY when there are messages in it being sent. This is a feature. Everything else mentioned looks like a bug in a beta app�

[K++]

Originally posted by klinux:
Sure, Apple is the innovator on many things but hardly everything. As others have said, FUS is copied from XP. Apple was also late to the game for having a journaled file system. Also, WinXP had TCP/IP over firewire from day one. The list goes on.

In any case, I am not too interested on who copied what thing as good software all copy good features from one another i.e. Lookout (now owned by MS) has had the search everything feature long before Google Desktop long before Spotlight (to be released in H1 05).

Your joking right? They admitted that XP added Fast-User Switching before they did, but they did it correctly, and they acknowledged Window only because they decided to use the same name to make windows look bad at what it does so poorly. You also forget the fact that TCP/IP over Firewire is in the spec for FireWire. You know, the spec, and protocol that Apple wrote and invented. Just because they hadn't implemented it yet doesn't mean they copied windows, since you obviously have never used windows' TCP/IP over firewire. Like everything they do its buggy and incomplete and crashes, A LOT.

A journalled FS, hahaha, not copied from MS, yes again they had the feature but most windows users don't know that their FS is journaled now that it has built in security and compression features.

Lookout was an outlook plugin that put outlook's own search to shame, it doesn't search everything just your outlook mailbox and MS purchsed it for obvious reasons. It is not analgous to Google Desktop nor SpotLight, add to that the fact that SpotLight was announced and demo-ed prior to teh release of Google Desktop.

If your gonna comment then at least know what your talking about.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally posted by klinux:
Sure, Apple is the innovator on many things but hardly everything. As others have said, FUS is copied from XP. Apple was also late to the game for having a journaled file system. Also, WinXP had TCP/IP over firewire from day one. The list goes on.

In any case, I am not too interested on who copied what thing as good software all copy good features from one another i.e. Lookout (now owned by MS) has had the search everything feature long before Google Desktop long before Spotlight (to be released in H1 05).

The Troll forum is thataway. --->

[K++]

Originally posted by Zadian:
Who used contextual menus first? I know that NeXT Step used them in 1990, but i don't think NeXT invented them.
So, who invented the contextual menus? I doubt it was Microsoft.

Xerox PARC. They had them in there long before Apple took the entire GUI from them, Apple took them out to simplify the OS and removed the extra mosue buttons. PARC had three buttons and menus on the second, clicking on the first and the third did something else.