[mduell]

Originally Posted by Simon

Well actually, quite contrary to Dell, Apple doesn't use the T2300 in their notebooks at all. They only use it for their cheapest line.

And we're talking about desktops. Welcome to the conversation.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by mduell

And we're talking about desktops. Welcome to the conversation.

Oh we are? Try this:

Originally Posted by mduell

ITYM $400.
The current Core Duo laptops are only $750, and they start with 1GB RAM.

If you wanna get snotty, you could at least try to make sure you have your facts straight beforehand. How about that?

[Simon]

Back to an interesting discussion.

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

Dell and others will be offering Core 2 Duo machines at $1000-$1500 price points. While Apple will have NOTHING to compete in that area.

That price range is where Apple has the iMac. And it will go C2D for sure. OTOH I agree with you that some potential buyers won't like the idea of getting a non-removable screen bundled with it or the fact that it doesn't come with PCI Express slots. Some might buy up and get a MP (what Apple wants), others might settle for the iMac, but a certain fraction will just go with a PC. For some reason Steve obviously believes he won't use to many sales to that segment. I'd like to know if that's backed up by some serious market research or if just Steve being political.

[ajprice]

It will probably never happen, but I like the idea of the small tower/screenless iMac equivalent Mac being a cube. With the space they would have in there (call it an 8" cube), and what they are able to get into a Mac Mini (6.5" sq x 2"), they could easily get an iMac spec machine with Core 2 Duo in there, with full size hard drive and probably a few slots.

There was a fake image floating around a while ago that turned out to be based on the design award cube. Something like this would be great.


(This is a design award, not the fake picture)

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Simon

Oh we are? Try this:





If you wanna get snotty, you could at least try to make sure you have your facts straight beforehand. How about that?

I was using the laptop price to lend credibiltiy to my estimate for desktop price, not shifting the discussion to one about laptop features.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Simon]

Apology accepted.

[notehead]

If you do expect the new towers to be called "Mac Pro" then you've got to expect that there will be a redesign to associate with the name. No way would they keep the G5 enclosure (which I think is fab) and change the name of the product.

I disagree with those of you who seem to think that the towers should be less "intimidating". A fully pumped-up mini would probably be fine for your needs, but professional users in creative and scientific fields need speed, power, and expandability. This is essential for keeping your productivity up. And anyway, that's why there's always a few models in the pro line.

What other wish list items do you think are within the realm of possibility? I'd love it if bluetooth and base-station capabilities were built in. Bundled bluetooth keyboard & mouse would be nice, although I doubt that'll happen. Optical drive will certainly be faster. How about some kind of enhancement to Firewire so that we could have longer cable runs (so I could stash drives in a closet and not hear their fans)? Hey, how about a bluetooth keyboard that is powered by pv cells like a calculator?

[Simon]

Originally Posted by notehead

If you do expect the new towers to be called "Mac Pro" then you've got to expect that there will be a redesign to associate with the name. No way would they keep the G5 enclosure (which I think is fab) and change the name of the product.

Not necessarily. The MBP looks basically just like the 15" Al PB G4. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same happen with the MP. Slight changes on the outside, some changes on the inside, but the main change will be the new board.

[Scotttheking]

Not sure about the case, but playing around on Dell's site:
2x2GHz Woodcrest (4 cores total)
128MB Quadro NVS285 (they don't have options for consumer cards on their pro workstation line)
2GB DDR667 FB Dimms (2 Dimms)
2x160GB SATA2 drives
DVDRW
13 in one Media reader
20" Digital LCD

$2771 plus tax.

There's no way Apple won't have at least 2 Woodcrest systems. The prices are easily in line with what they charge now. Hopefully there will be options ranging from the 2GHz chips to the 3GHz chips.

[imitchellg5]

Whatever it looks like it will be a sexy beast like every other pro Mac.

[Scotttheking]

I just wish they'd go back to the days of 7xxx 8xxx 9xxx (I wouldn't mind a 6xxx pizza box, too). Yay product choices that didn't have monitors. Since they are just using Intel boards, it should be easier (matx on 6xxx and 7xxx, full atx on 8xxx, EATX on 9xxx). And yes, you can get simpler dual boards in regular atx.

[real]

Originally Posted by asodamiac

I love the current designs. I wouldn't mind if it stayed the same.

Agreed


But some people like to show off there new MacPro. the G5 Case seems fine they look great


real

[merp]

Originally Posted by Scotttheking

I just wish they'd go back to the days of 7xxx 8xxx 9xxx (I wouldn't mind a 6xxx pizza box, too).

It'll probably never happen again. Too many models, too many configurations, too many screwball pricing choices. The current lineup is nice and simple. It reduces the overhead of producing systems, as inventory management simplifies dramatically. Remember, it was the "paring down" of inventory complexity that had a significant hand in Apple's financial turnaround.


I have no idea what the new Pro hardware will look like. Think Secret's got a blurb saying it's not going to be the G5 case. More disk! (please?)

[EasyMac]

Well they could come out with two models, one can have a case like the current G5 case. Another could be like a 30 inch iMac, but instead of a little stand, it is like the old G3 all-in-one, and the internals sit sideways so you can take off the back and be able to put in what you want.

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by masugu

The enormous amount of space / 5 fans etc. for the former G5's should not be required with the new Core 2 Duos...

The reason the G5 towers have so many fans is so that it can run whisper quiet. It would be properly cooled with only 2 fans, but would be as loud as every other junky PC out there.

PS: two words... transparent aluminum.

[Captain Curt]

I'm hoping the new Mac Pro looks like it has at least two external SATA ports.

[slamm311]

I'd really love for it to have at least one model that has no less than 6 slots... 8 would be great...
2 FW 800 Ports 2 FW 400 Ports on back one each on front and be able to squeeze into a 19" rack for the recording studio

[Scotttheking]

Originally Posted by slamm311

I'd really love for it to have at least one model that has no less than 6 slots... 8 would be great...
2 FW 800 Ports 2 FW 400 Ports on back one each on front and be able to squeeze into a 19" rack for the recording studio

What do you mean by slots?

[ajprice]

Probably PCIe card slots??? maybe drive bays on the front???

[Velocity211]

I just hope it doesn't look like windoze boxes, but there is a 99.9% chance that it won't

[OtisWild]

I just hope it can take bog-standard PCIe video cards, instead of the bloody OpenFirmware-capable sort. If I could put my current 7800GTX in one, I'd dump my gaming PC in a second (or rather, convert it into a full-time linux box

I'm wondering though if the new Xserve will feature 2.5" SATA or SAS drives, they really are quite cute and you can pack 'em pretty damn dense..

[Scotttheking]

Originally Posted by Velocity211

I just hope it doesn't look like windoze boxes, but there is a 99.9% chance that it won't

This post also makes absolutely no sense.

[lizardgator]

I thought it might be a smaller form factor but Dell has the XPS 700 which is just as large as the Powermac G5 case so I guess a smaler form factor isn't that important to most people. Maybe professional and power users expect their computer to be large, it gives them a sense power!

[Scotttheking]

Originally Posted by lizardgator

I thought it might be a smaller form factor but Dell has the XPS 700 which is just as large as the Powermac G5 case so I guess a smaler form factor isn't that important to most people. Maybe professional and power users expect their computer to be large, it gives them a sense power!

You are neglecting the fact that Dell also sells many other lines of systems, thus not forcing everyone to get a huge tower if they don't want one. To pick their largest system and attempt to extrapolate from that is folly. The comparison would only work if Dell offered nothing smaller.

[lenox]

I, for one, hope it looks nothing like the G5s.

I've always felt like the G5 was needlessly huge (and yet, having no space for internal drives) due to the noise/heat fiasco with the MDD G4s. I don't want no ugly cheese grater under my desk!

[production_coordinator]

Originally Posted by lenox

I, for one, hope it looks nothing like the G5s.

I've always felt like the G5 was needlessly huge (and yet, having no space for internal drives) due to the noise/heat fiasco with the MDD G4s. I don't want no ugly cheese grater under my desk!

I agree with 1/2 of that... I'm fine with the design and the grate... I just think if you are going to have a big box... you should have space for at least 3-4 HDs.

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by lenox

(…) due to the noise/heat fiasco with the MDD G4s (…)

Does that happen to all MDD or maybe just to Dual CPU models?, my single 1.25 GHz while far for being a silent machine, has never had heat issues. Nevertheless, single CPU towers are so yesterday tech…

[24klogos]

well since the case will be the only thing setting it aside a Dell, i would expect aluminum at the very least. and yeah, everyone's nightmare, but i'd say it anyway, would be nice if they dropped intel and went back to PPC... to this day i can't believe it, but oh well, if at least it looks pretty i guess i'll be alright.

[Leonard]

Well, the rumor mill has started... http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1886

Modified G5 case with 2 optical drives and power supply on the top.

[Dave Hagan]

Not terribly bad...however I hope the price is adjusted to be competative.

[G5man]

$1799 US is cheaper than what the current low end PowerMac is plus it has graphics one step down according to the rumors, it is a bit competitive to Dell's, however, these may want to get Nvidia SLI in order to capture graphic artists and some gamers. The incentives will change decisions of buyers considering a new PC.

[harrisjamieh]

Originally Posted by 24klogos

would be nice if they dropped intel and went back to PPC

I couldn't think of anything worse.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by harrisjamieh

I couldn't think of anything worse.

They could go to Freescale PPC instead of IBM PPC.

[ajprice]

2 optical drives? Nice. Does anyone think they will switch to slot loading drives, or stick with tray loading?

[mousehouse]

Originally Posted by Leonard

Well, the rumor mill has started... http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1886

Modified G5 case with 2 optical drives and power supply on the top.

That powerconnector in the top looks ridiculous, it's very unhandy as well. The base of the current G5 model holds the 700W PSU perfectly and I couldn't imaging any reason to relocate it to the top. The case is nearly symmetric, it won't give you any additional room...

Other than that, it will be the flagship product from Apple that needs to appeal to the professional market. Apple spent significant amount of $$$ on Pro software, companies and image. The tower needs fit that image and be a "supreme" machine. They need something that defeats the quad-G5. Is the "Best Xeon" box going to do that?

Just my €0.02, but they need something better if they want to convince all these pro's and prosumers to go out and spend.

[Neo.cmg]

The speculative table from Apple Insider suggest that all 3 Xeon configurations include DDR2 RAM. Someone is uninformed, since these Xeon 5100 chips do not use DDR2 RAM, but rather FB-DIMMs. If this were Apple source material, then I highly doubt a mistake like this one would be included. Furthermore, it looks like the rumored specs were guessed by someone in Europe, or the East--somewhere where the decimal separator is switched to a comma. In other words, someone very far away from Apple's headquarters. Thus, I would consider this as someone's uninformed speculation, and hope they're nowhere near close in their guessing as a $2500 configuration with only a single 2.33Ghz Xeon 5100 chip, just sucks.

[suta]

To fit what pro user need and people who like the pro machine (computer), Mac Pro maybe came with four models in two categories:

Desktop (Core 2 duo E6x00 series)
Workstation (Xeon 51x0 series)

Each with low and high end model (there no midrange model)

again it still maybe

[mduell]

Here's what I think we'll see:

Base Models
Dual-core 2.33GHz Xeon processor
1.33GHz frontside bus per processor
4MB L2 cache per CPU
1GB of 667Mhz FB-DIMM
200GB Serial ATA hard drive
16x SuperDrive (double-layer)
Three open PCI-Express expansion slots
NVIDIA GeForce 7600GT with 256MB GDDR SDRAM
$1799

Two dual-core 2.33GHz Xeon processors
1.33GHz frontside bus per processor
4MB L2 cache per CPU
2GB of 667Mhz Fully Buffered DIMM
400GB Serial ATA hard drive
16x SuperDrive (double-layer)
Three open PCI-Express expansion slots
NVIDIA GeForce 7800GTX with 512MB GDDR SDRAM
$2799

Options
Dual-core 3Ghz Xeon processor +$450 ($900 on Quad models)
NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GTX with 512MB GDDR SDRAM +$250
NVIDIA GeForce 7950 GX2 with 1GB GDDR SDRAM +$500/250
NVIDIA Quadro FX 5500 with 1GB GDDR SDRAM +$2500/2250
1GB of 667Mhz FB-DIMM +$250
2GB of 667Mhz FB-DIMM +$500
4GB of 667Mhz FB-DIMM +$1000
8GB of 667Mhz FB-DIMM +$8000
400GB Serial ATA hard drive +$150
500GB Serial ATA hard drive +$240/100
750GB Serial ATA hard drive +$370/230

A low end dual and a high end dual; a low end quad and a high end quad. With the massive FB-DIMM densities, they may be able to get away with 4 slots instead of 8.
I doubt we'll see a Conroe model Mac Pro, because of the different sockets and chipsets required.
I do think we'll see a headless iMac with Conroe in about 6 months.

[Velocity211]

Originally Posted by mduell

Here's what I think we'll see:

Base Models
Dual-core 2.33GHz Xeon processor
1.33GHz frontside bus per processor
4MB L2 cache per CPU
1GB of 667Mhz FB-DIMM
200GB Serial ATA hard drive
16x SuperDrive (double-layer)
Three open PCI-Express expansion slots
NVIDIA GeForce 7600GT with 256MB GDDR SDRAM
$1799

Two dual-core 2.33GHz Xeon processors
1.33GHz frontside bus per processor
4MB L2 cache per CPU
2GB of 667Mhz Fully Buffered DIMM
400GB Serial ATA hard drive
16x SuperDrive (double-layer)
Three open PCI-Express expansion slots
NVIDIA GeForce 7800GTX with 512MB GDDR SDRAM
$2799

Options
Dual-core 3Ghz Xeon processor +$450 ($900 on Quad models)
NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GTX with 512MB GDDR SDRAM +$250
NVIDIA GeForce 7950 GX2 with 1GB GDDR SDRAM +$500/250
NVIDIA Quadro FX 5500 with 1GB GDDR SDRAM +$2500/2250
1GB of 667Mhz FB-DIMM +$250
2GB of 667Mhz FB-DIMM +$500
4GB of 667Mhz FB-DIMM +$1000
8GB of 667Mhz FB-DIMM +$8000
400GB Serial ATA hard drive +$150
500GB Serial ATA hard drive +$240/100
750GB Serial ATA hard drive +$370/230

A low end dual and a high end dual; a low end quad and a high end quad. With the massive FB-DIMM densities, they may be able to get away with 4 slots instead of 8.
I doubt we'll see a Conroe model Mac Pro, because of the different sockets and chipsets required.
I do think we'll see a headless iMac with Conroe in about 6 months.

I don't think it's gonna use Xeon processors, they might, but probably not.

[scottmorgan42]

I think it'd be cool if it looked like this

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Velocity211

I don't think it's gonna use Xeon processors, they might, but probably not.

There's absolutely no doubt they will use Xeon processors.

There is no other Core 2 CPU that allows SMP and has support for more than an 800 MHz FSB.

[scottmorgan42]

actually, i think the adidas edition is cooler

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Velocity211

I don't think it's gonna use Xeon processors, they might, but probably not.

I disagree strongly. They need a quad or two in the new line-up.

Originally Posted by Simon

There is no other Core 2 CPU that allows SMP and has support for more than an 800 MHz FSB.

ITYM 1066.

[Velocity211]

Originally Posted by Simon

There's absolutely no doubt they will use Xeon processors.

There is no other Core 2 CPU that allows SMP and has support for more than an 800 MHz FSB.

I just saw the appleinsider specs for the Mac Pro. I guess I was wrong. I thought xeon processors were for servers and the xserve is gonna use it. I was thinking that the Mac Pro is going to use Core 2 Extreme processors. We'll see at the WWDC. BTW, if there is a Mac Pro, shouldn't there be a regular Mac? Like with the Macbook Pro, there is a Macbook.

[Dark_Lotus]

If there was a Mac, it would be the iMac with a name change. I think that would be bad if they changed the iMac's name. Everyone knows what an iMac is.

[dimmer]

Is Intel going to even stick with the Xeon name for the Core 2 chips? Xeon took quite a hefty beating from from AMD as I remember it (and I don't remember it that well)--was this Itanium or did that baby get the throatcut it so richly deserved?

[Simon]

Originally Posted by dimmer

Is Intel going to even stick with the Xeon name for the Core 2 chips?

They already have stuck with the Xeon name.

Since June 26 Woodcrest (the SMP capable version of Core 2) is officially being sold under the name Dual-Core Intel Xeon Processor 5100 Series.

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

Originally Posted by Neo.cmg

The speculative table from Apple Insider suggest that all 3 Xeon configurations include DDR2 RAM. Someone is uninformed, since these Xeon 5100 chips do not use DDR2 RAM, but rather FB-DIMMs.

Apple Insider fakes theirs insider information for page hits. Their insider said the MacBooks would have X300 graphics and a red U2 model. Their latest insider info ahem gets the specs wrong and came up with the power supply at the top of the case theory because PCs with Intel mobos have them that way. Even funnier they say an empty second drive bay will be there to accomodate Bluray or HD-DVD. Their insider source couldn't decide or forgot Apple is on the Bluray consortium?

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Simon

Since June 26 Woodcrest (the SMP capable version of Core 2) is officially being sold under the name Xeon MP 51xx.

The name is just Xeon 51xx... MP are the 4-way and up chips, which haven't been updated to the Core Microarchitecture yet.

[Simon]

Thanks, fixinated. It should have of course read Dual-Core, not MP.