[art_director]

Good god, have people here looked at the pricing for CS3 suites? In a word: rape.

I own full legal copies of Photoshop CS2, Illustrator CS2, ID CS2 & Acrobat 7. For me to upgrade to the Premium Suite it would cost $1,599 -- a $200 discount from the cost of purchasing the Premium Suite full version (not upgrade).

Sure, you get a couple apps to go with it but, IMHO, they're nice to have programs provided they work as billed. They certainly aren't must haves in my case.

I was hoping Adobe would have the wisdom to give us legal users a better break on price. This is making me rethink my stance on pirated software.

[Big Mac]

$200, how generous. It almost makes more sense just to purchase another full license if you're going to spend that much on an upgrade.

[Chuckit]

Adobe = prison rape. I'm still using CS1 (the last version before activation bullshit) and I feel fine.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

$200, how generous. It almost makes more sense just to purchase another full license if you're going to spend that much on an upgrade.

Crazy, isn't it?

[art_director]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Adobe = prison rape. I'm still using CS1 (the last version before activation bullshit) and I feel fine.

That activation **** was cracked before the retail boxes hit shelves. I know several people and businesses who claim to use pirated copies. I've never confirmed their stories. I've always opted to remain legal. Now that's looking like a fool's mistake.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by art_director 

Good god, have people here looked at the pricing for CS3 suites? In a word: rape.

I own full legal copies of Photoshop CS2, Illustrator CS2, ID CS2 & Acrobat 7. For me to upgrade to the Premium Suite it would cost $1,599 -- a $200 discount from the cost of purchasing the Premium Suite full version (not upgrade).

Sure, you get a couple apps to go with it but, IMHO, they're nice to have programs provided they work as billed. They certainly aren't must haves in my case.

I was hoping Adobe would have the wisdom to give us legal users a better break on price. This is making me rethink my stance on pirated software.

Just so I understand... you purchased the seperate programs and have been updating them, but have never purchased the CS1 or CS2 design suite?

That price is basically a Microsoft move IMHO. Sure you CAN buy Word or Excel, but you basically end up buying office at $40 more.

Adobe better have cleaned up Illustrator and Acrobat. They feel rather bloated, and I'm nervous it's only going to get worse.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

Just so I understand... you purchased the seperate programs and have been updating them, but have never purchased the CS1 or CS2 design suite?

That price is basically a Microsoft move IMHO. Sure you CAN buy Word or Excel, but you basically end up buying office at $40 more.

Adobe better have cleaned up Illustrator and Acrobat. They feel rather bloated, and I'm nervous it's only going to get worse.

Yes, you have it right -- I've been buying individual upgrades. Until last year I didn't bother with InDesign because none of my clients used it. Given the case it wasn't worth putting out the cash for a suite. Now my honesty is going to cost me provided I want to go with the Premium Suite. That price is $1,599. If I upgrade each app separately it will cost me $906. I could upgrade to the Standard Suite for $899 but then I lose the new feature set in Photoshop Extended -- all of which would be handy for a fella like me.

Indeed, Adobe has gone all Microsoft on us.

[Thorzdad]

To upgrade from CS1 to the Design Premium suite (the one that come closest to meeting my needs) I will have to fork-over $600. And then I will still have to send about $120 to Apple so I can upgrade OSX to meet Adobe's system requirements.

[art_director]

It looks like the best route would be to buy the CS2.3 suite off eBay (approx $475) and upgrade that. Then I'd have to sell off my separate apps. Hmmm...

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by art_director 

Indeed, Adobe has gone all Microsoft on us.

I pointed that out a few years ago already.

V

[art_director]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

I pointed that out a few years ago already.

V

Your point being...

[iREZ]

absolutely nothing like always.

[andi*pandi]

I wonder what the edu price will be...

[KeriVit]

I just checked. With Edu, I can get Premium for $599 and Standard for $399. I better buy it before I finish my Masters regardless.

[Demonhood]

so it's double and triple what EDU used to be.

[Macola]

Are the upgrade versions available through Edu? (probably not, but worth checking.)

[KeriVit]

CS2 is 399.

[mdc]

I wonder if the high price has anything to do with Adobe knowing that everyone who uses an Intel Mac is dying for this release?

[Chuckit]

I think it's a general realization in the company that they really are a monopoly — and a growing one at that — so they may as well milk their customers for all they're worth.

[art_director]

I do believe you're both right on this one. At least they're still listening to and developing products for their core base. CS3 looks like an amazing suite of apps with powerful new features. That makes it easier than buying the new Quark, which I have absolutely no use for.

[clesch]

The prices are indeed extremely expensive, though I do believe that the software is worth it. EDU versions should still be cheaper though, come on!

I had decided to bite the bullet on this one and went to a local store to order the Master Collection here in Austria - 3300€ (~4400$). yikes. I'll have settle with PS CS3 alone for now - sucks to have nothing to upgrade from.

PS: no, the store did not try to rip me off. According to this this chart the price is pretty average.

[art_director]

As an Intel Mac owner I'm looking forward to this update. CS2 is painfully slow, and in some cases wonky, in Rosetta. For example, with Illustrator CS2, if the Appearance palette is open at startup and you attempt to use the Pathfinder tool, ILL CS2 will crash. Everybody give me a 'wonkilicious.'

[Chuckit]

I don't own CS2, but from my time using it at one of my jobs, I'd have to say Illustrator CS2 is the buggiest Adobe software I've ever used. If I were a CS2 owner, I can see that alone being good reason to upgrade.

[andi*pandi]

how will cs3 function (or not) on non-intel hardware? I don't see us buying new anytime soon.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

how will cs3 function (or not) on non-intel hardware? I don't see us buying new anytime soon.

Should work fine.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I don't own CS2, but from my time using it at one of my jobs, I'd have to say Illustrator CS2 is the buggiest Adobe software I've ever used. If I were a CS2 owner, I can see that alone being good reason to upgrade.

It doesn't hold a candle to the bugs found in Quark.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by art_director 

It doesn't hold a candle to the bugs found in Quark.

Nope, not even close. But Quark is pretty much in its own universe of low expectations. Illustrator could stalk my mother and blackmail her with fake photos and I'd still probably think, "Well, it's still better than Quark."

[art_director]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Nope, not even close. But Quark is pretty much in its own universe of low expectations. Illustrator could stalk my mother and blackmail her with fake photos and I'd still probably think, "Well, it's still better than Quark."

You have me lauhging out loud...

[Apfhex]

Originally Posted by KeriVit 

With Edu, I can get Premium for $599 and Standard for $399.

Yikes. I didn't notice CS3 Design Premium was $200 more expensive than CS2 Premium EDU for the same products, with Dreamweaver instead of GoLive. And $599 is the same price as the non-academic upgrade, which as a near graduate I'll probably be getting.

[post_break]

Adobe is secretly the devil and the devs are forced to work as hard as they can on it since they are lost souls. We are just funding a second wing to their rec building. I will buy Photoshop when it comes free with my next operating system.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by post_break 

Adobe is secretly the devil and the devs are forced to work as hard as they can on it since they are lost souls. We are just funding a second wing to their rec building. I will buy Photoshop when it comes free with my next operating system.

Your in a forum filled with many professional and aspiring designers and art directors. Waiting for the tools of the trade to be given away is not an option for us. And pirating is flat out wrong. (I understand you did not suggest that option.)

[post_break]

I am just saying what everyone else is thinking. How does Adobe come up with these pricing points? There is no way I could afford my mac AND photoshop. Im in a graphic design class that requires it, do we get a copy to use? No. Do I fail the class or miss my next tuition payment and get a hold on my account.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by post_break 

I am just saying what everyone else is thinking. How does Adobe come up with these pricing points? There is no way I could afford my mac AND photoshop. Im in a graphic design class that requires it, do we get a copy to use? No. Do I fail the class or miss my next tuition payment and get a hold on my account.

You picked the wrong person to complain to about your educational expenditures. I put myself through school and paid for all my own equipment along the way by working three jobs and freelancing. If you can't manage satisfying the needs of your graphic design class -- whether financial or otherwise -- you're not cut out for this profession.

As for Adobe's pricing, I agree, it's steep. But they're in business to make money, not to help college students.

Finally, you've stated that you're in a graphic design class now. That indicates you're already working with an older version of Photoshop. Upgrading to CS3 is not neccessary. Period. In the real world of advertising and design CS3 apps will not come into use fully for months. There's no reason a college student 'needs' the application now. Stick with what you have, save your money and, in time, upgrade.

[post_break]

Well this a great argument (no sarcasm, really), simply put I was shocked that the teachers listed photoshop as one of the requirements to the class without telling us where to get it cheaper. I think in the end Adobe should have a better price for students who need to use their applications. A buddy of mine goes to a graphic design college in new york and a Mac was listed on the required supplies list.

The only reason I want CS3 is because it runs faster than CS2, not for the whiz bang upgrades it may include.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by post_break 

Well this a great argument (no sarcasm, really), simply put I was shocked that the teachers listed photoshop as one of the requirements to the class without telling us where to get it cheaper. I think in the end Adobe should have a better price for students who need to use their applications. A buddy of mine goes to a graphic design college in new york and a Mac was listed on the required supplies list.

The only reason I want CS3 is because it runs faster than CS2, not for the whiz bang upgrades it may include.

Adobe does offer student pricing. In this case, as you stated, it's on the high side.

I concur with your desire for a faster Photoshop. Problem is your instructor won't even know how to use the new features much less be prepared to teach you how to take advantage of them.

[shandaman]

I agree expensive, but worthy every penny. Luckily my company is getting it for free so I don't have to pay!

[art_director]

Originally Posted by shandaman 

I agree expensive, but worthy every penny. Luckily my company is getting it for free so I don't have to pay!

Curious, how could you know that it's 'worth every penny' when the final product has not yet been released? I remember people saying the same before Quark v.5 came out and, in the end, it was a smelly piece of dung.

[shandaman]

I have it already... My company got it to review

[art_director]

Not the final release version , , , they'll be tweaking that to the last second.

[andi*pandi]

post_break, as a student, doesn't your college have a computer lab already stocked with software and computers? I never bought any software as a student, I did all my work on school computers. Yes, it is more convenient to work at your own computer in your own dorm room, but the campus really should be stocked. Mine was. My current college is. Where are you going to school?

[olePigeon]

St Brutus's Secure Centre for Incurably Criminal Boys

[art_director]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

post_break, as a student, doesn't your college have a computer lab already stocked with software and computers? I never bought any software as a student, I did all my work on school computers. Yes, it is more convenient to work at your own computer in your own dorm room, but the campus really should be stocked. Mine was. My current college is. Where are you going to school?

I did the same in college. It's funny to see the perception of entitlement by today's students. The expectation that they have the fastest, best computers in the land often defeats what they're attempting to learn.

When I was in school we stored everything on floppies. Imagine working brochure then saving it on multiple disks after each session. External drives, Zip disks and such weren't yet available. It was difficult, time consuming and frustrating. But, when you lose 25% of your computer time transfering your files, you learn to design more quickly and effriciently.

[Thorzdad]

Geez...they didn't even have computers when I was a student, let alone labs full of them. Heck...photo-typesetting was new back then

[art_director]

I had the pleasure of sending type out to be set in my first job. I'll never forget the thrill of having your galleys show up . . . ah . . . and keylines, a lost art. I sat for hours tweaking every single character of a long-copy ad campaign by hand so my wraps would look all spiffy.

[Brien]

It's a shame they don't teach the old ways of doing things. Thankfully I had a great teacher who still did, but I'm afraid that a lot of people going out into the industry now have no idea about half the 'old' stuff.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by Brien 

It's a shame they don't teach the old ways of doing things. Thankfully I had a great teacher who still did, but I'm afraid that a lot of people going out into the industry now have no idea about half the 'old' stuff.

Agreed. New designers and ADs I run across know very little of typography. I think there was a degree of understanding that came with the labor involved in days gone by.

[Thorzdad]

Originally Posted by art_director 

Agreed. New designers and ADs I run across know very little of typography. I think there was a degree of understanding that came with the labor involved in days gone by.

Originally Posted by Brien 

It's a shame they don't teach the old ways of doing things. Thankfully I had a great teacher who still did, but I'm afraid that a lot of people going out into the industry now have no idea about half the 'old' stuff.

You both speak the truth.

When I first started training as a graphic designer in high school, I was taught...ready?...how to set cold type. Now, I would never subject anyone to the special love that we call a California Job Case, but it really DID give me a long-lasting grounding in the craft and a connection to its origins. I know that sounds sappy, but I really think it counts for something when you understand that your profession's roots stretch back as far as Gutenberg and the invention of movable type.

It really is discouraging when I see young designers with no real understanding of the ability of typography to communicate an idea or message. I was lucky enough to go to school during the heyday of type and design gods like Bob Gill, Herb Lubalin, and Milton Glaser. It was a great time.

I did a short stint teaching freshman and sophomore graphic design some years ago at a local college and was appalled at how little typography played a part in the kid's curriculum. It was almost as if typography was a dirty word with the instructors. All they seemed interested in was "new media" and churning-out really pretty multimedia portfolios. With crappy typography. And there was absolutely NO instruction on basic reproduction techniques. Can you imagine calling yourself a graphic designer and not having even a remote clue how to prepare a file for offset printing? Even in this web-based world, I would imagine the average design job still entails a huge amount of print. I just don't get it.

I don't miss working with lead type. And I don't miss building keylines. Or hot waxers. Or rubylith. But, I'm sure glad I went through it all.

Okay...enough with the old geezer talk.
Now, you kids get off my lawn!

[VUDUTU]

As long as your waxing (pun intended for those old enough to get it) nostalgic, I started BEFORE floppies, helped install the first Linotronic and Mac (Mac Pluses!) RIP in town and the first Mac/Avid. We still have a typesetting room here at school and loads of old lead type, stat cameras and hand presses. The old type does not get used a lot but it's great for students to experience. Yes I agree, students should have do a project the "old way" just so they know.

I googled and landed at this thread because I am major league pissed over the quote I just got to take us from CS2 to CS3, we just managed to get CS2 seven months ago to the tune of 12K or so for 40 seats and just got qouted 14K for CS3, I don't think we are going there soon. I thought I had heard CS3 was coming out this summer so i figured it would come out and by next fall I could be testing and thinking about it next budget. This sucks, the software should at least be prorated. Makes me want to go back to Quark, at least they are still sending me updates!

Late last week I started to get email and calls from faculty saying our software vendor was calling saying that they should buy CS3 and push it to their students (FYI the student buy is cheaper than my lisc. price) So I called the vendor and said whats up, when did the release get pushed up and WHY are you calling my faculty and trying to get them to CS3 when you know we don't have it installed at the school?

This sucks, Adobe has become the 900 lb Gorilla, I used to like them, no more.

[post_break]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

post_break, as a student, doesn't your college have a computer lab already stocked with software and computers? I never bought any software as a student, I did all my work on school computers. Yes, it is more convenient to work at your own computer in your own dorm room, but the campus really should be stocked. Mine was. My current college is. Where are you going to school?

I dont live on campus and driving to a packed computer lab every time I want to work on my homework does not appeal to me.

[Thorzdad]

Wow, that's pretty low for them to go around you and straight to your faculty.
I suspect there's a lot riding on this release for Adobe and they are going to shove it down everyone's throats as hard as possible. Personally, I just don't see a good reason to upgrade right away. Bells-and-whistles and gee-whiz "features" just don't sell me anymore.