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Known issue with Safari?
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OMGWTFBBQ
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Nov 21, 2003, 02:30 PM
 
I have mentioned this in a few threads and nobody said anything like "oh, you are doing XYZ wrong" - so I just guessed that it was a known issue.

But I have been having enough problems with it that I am hoping it is known and will be fixed.

My issue is that I use Safari to browse the web (with PithHelmet installed).
I usually have to discussion boards open (vBulletin systems similar to MacNN) and then I have a realtime stock quote page that I reload a lot.

After a day of doing this and opening and closing other web pages (Slashdot mostly) then I try to close a window and it will sit on the rainbow spinner for well over 5 minutes and the application will not do anything else during this time - no other windows are accessible.
I can try to quit as well, and that won't work either - spinner again.
I have to go to the App Monitor and force quit that way.

This problem happens much sooner if I go to a site that is running a Java applet.

I am on a 1.25Ghz 15" AlBook running Panther with all of the updates.
     
gorickey
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Nov 21, 2003, 03:29 PM
 
I guess my first question would be is do you see the same thing with PithHelmet not installed?
     
OMGWTFBBQ  (op)
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Nov 21, 2003, 03:35 PM
 
Good point - yes - I did have the same problems prior to installing PithHelmet (which is good considering how much I love PithHelmet).

I wouldn't really mind or care if I had these issues if I didn't do things that involve me making (or more importantly - *losing*) money.
If I am trying to make stock trades and the browser freezes, that is no good to me.

I wish either the other browsers were better in terms of using them, or that Safari would quickly resolve their bugs.
     
cpac
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Nov 21, 2003, 04:49 PM
 
well before you blame safari, why not make sure it's a safari problem? Do you get the same thing without Pithhelmet installed?

Do other browsers have the same problem on your system? Camino? OmniWeb? IE?

PS - this belongs in the software forum
cpac
     
OMGWTFBBQ  (op)
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Nov 21, 2003, 05:38 PM
 
Originally posted by cpac:
well before you blame safari, why not make sure it's a safari problem? Do you get the same thing without Pithhelmet installed?

Do other browsers have the same problem on your system? Camino? OmniWeb? IE?

PS - this belongs in the software forum
As for being on the wrong board, my apologies - I am a recent switcher, so I am still picking up on what is built in and considered OS X and what is considered "just software that came installed with the system" - I take is Safari falls into the latter category.
Sorry, saw other Safari posts on here too.
I'd move it, but I believe that vBulletin only allows mods and/or admins to move posts.

As for the same thing without Pith Helmet, yes - it is the same regardless of that.

And no, it doesn't do it in IE or Camino - but I will add that I much prefer the experience (while it is working) of Safari over those - hence why I was hoping this issue is something resolvable.

Haven't tried OmniWeb - so I'm not sure if the issue is present there or not.
     
Kristoff
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Nov 21, 2003, 05:42 PM
 
Originally posted by OMGWTFBBQ:
As for being on the wrong board, my apologies - I am a recent switcher, so I am still picking up on what is built in and considered OS X

Gee, we can't imagine how that line ever got blurred, *cough*Bill Gates*cough*, especially when it comes to browsers.
signatures are a waste of bandwidth
especially ones with political tripe in them.
     
Dale Sorel
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Nov 21, 2003, 10:48 PM
 
Lose the PithHelmet and use a custom stylesheet to block ads. Safari will work much better for you
     
OMGWTFBBQ  (op)
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Nov 23, 2003, 01:30 PM
 
Originally posted by Dale Sorel:
Lose the PithHelmet and use a custom stylesheet to block ads. Safari will work much better for you
Right - I had the problems before I even knew that there was such thing as PithHelmet.

Were I complaining that pages were loading slowly - then that would point to PH. I'm complaining that in order to exit Safari, I have to ForceQuit it or it will eat up all of my memory and sit with the rainbow spinner when I try to close and/or quit it via its own menu.

I read in another thread that there is an update to Java that might help.
     
pdmarsh
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Nov 24, 2003, 01:22 PM
 
In both Jaguar and Panther, I've found that after a day/day & a half that Safari/Mail/iSync seem to lose connectivity to the Internet, even though Internet Explorer continues to work.

I've been struggling with narrowing this issue down for months, to no avail. I've found that FTP also fails to work, after a resourceful replier suggested I try that as well.

I'm using Panther in a clean install (following a reformat of the volume) on a 17" iMac with 768MB RAM, so I've new hardware and software. I'm connected to the Internet with a SpeedStream DSL Router, and the iMac is on a local area network connected to the Router through a 100Mbps NetGear Switch. I've tried this with DHCP and now I'd trying it with fixed IP addresses assigned to my local network devices. I've turned off my iDisk for now to see if that's part of the equation (I found that after this failure occurred and I had to Restart to restore services that the Mirror Agent which iDisk uses, apparently, would fail to quit).

I can't really take the LAN out of the equation because it takes a day and a half for this issue to pop up and I have a number of other devices in use on the network. However, I have found that when this Mac's Apple apps burp, my other Macs continue to access the Internet just fine (they're running Jaguar 10.2.8, but have experienced the same issue, albeit less frequently), and even this Mac can continue to access other devices on the local network just fine.

It's just the Apple apps (Safari, Mail, iSync) and the OS's FTP services that seem to fail. As I said, even in this situation, I've found that Internet Explorer continues to access the Internet normally.

I'd like to hear from anyone else experiencing this issue, because it appears to me that many are experiencing some facet of it, but haven't linked it to the broader issue. This doesn't appear to affect people who shutdown their Macs each day, nor does it appear to be much of a problem with Macs that are permitted to go to sleep. Since I run SETI in the background, I've set my System to never sleep, although I've set my Display and Hard Disk to go to sleep after a period of inactivity.

I've been using Macs since 1984, so I'm pretty confident I know what I'm doing, although I'm certainly not a Unix specialist. However, it appears to me that some core service in the OS is being used by these apps, that IE doesn't use.

Can anyone else supply any further clues?
     
pdmarsh
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Nov 25, 2003, 10:17 PM
 
Well, it's another day, and this evening as I was replying to an email in Mail, my Apple apps again lost Internet access, although, again, IE continued along just fine.

Still no one else experiencing something similar to this?
- Dave Marsh
     
jgcan
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Nov 25, 2003, 11:32 PM
 
Originally posted by pdmarsh:
Well, it's another day, and this evening as I was replying to an email in Mail, my Apple apps again lost Internet access, although, again, IE continued along just fine.

Still no one else experiencing something similar to this?
Well, I am new to macs and I noticed that often using Safari, I will get the message "can't find the server" when trying loading a page, I just hit enter again to reload and it is fine. I know it is not my internet connection, it seems to be Safari related. How can it be solved?
     
pdmarsh
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Nov 28, 2003, 02:49 PM
 
Yes, I've noticed that it sometimes takes a second try to load a web page. I'm not sure we can lay that on the Mac, however. There are many variables that could cause a web connection to burp.

Well, back to my particular Apple apps losing connectivity after a day or two, it's now approaching three days since I switched my Energy Saver setting from having the computer NEVER sleep, to go to sleep after three hours, and my Apple apps are remaining connected.

I'm guessing that something happens when you wake from sleep that wakes up the Apple app's connectivity. Of course, that still suggests a bug in the OS that allows the Apple apps to disconnect after 24 - 36 hours in Panther in the first place, but at this point I'm more interested in a usable solution. I'm wondering how this issue hasn't reared its head in server configurations that cannot be allowed to go to sleep? If the Apple apps burp again, I'll try putting the computer to Sleep and reawakening it to see if that reconnects successfully.

I've decided to turn my iSync automatic sync back on to hourly. If that continues to work OK, I'll remount my iDisk later this weekend.
- Dave Marsh
     
pdmarsh
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Nov 28, 2003, 06:37 PM
 
False alarm...my iMac lost Internet connectivity again this afternoon, although it took nearly three days this time. The only change in configuration was that the Energy Saver was set to 3 hours, vice Never. However, this time IE ALSO lost Internet connectivity, and ping failed to resolve the URL, so effectively I lost ALL Internet connectivity this time. A simple reboot restored service. I've turned off iSync again, to see if I'll get three more days of connectivity.

This is very frustrating.
- Dave Marsh
     
pdmarsh
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Dec 2, 2003, 02:11 AM
 
Another nearly three days, and my iMac running 10.3.1 has burped again, with all my Apple network apps refusing to connect to the Internet, even as IE continues to access the web normally. This issue continues even with iSync, iDisk, SETI, Missing_Sync, Watson all turned off/disabled. Except for the clock, I can't think of any other network using apps to turn off that might be part of the problem.
- Dave Marsh
     
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Dec 2, 2003, 09:56 AM
 
Originally posted by pdmarsh:
Another nearly three days, and my iMac running 10.3.1 has burped again, with all my Apple network apps refusing to connect to the Internet, even as IE continues to access the web normally. This issue continues even with iSync, iDisk, SETI, Missing_Sync, Watson all turned off/disabled. Except for the clock, I can't think of any other network using apps to turn off that might be part of the problem.
This is not a behavior that I've ever seen on any of my machines (presently a dual 2.0GHz G5, an 850MHz blue & white G3 and a 600MHz iBook).

Are you sure it's not your ISP doing something odd? Could your ISP be doing something bizarre when they renew your DHCP-supplied IP address? The regularly-spaced occurrence makes me think that this is the issue.
     
OMGWTFBBQ  (op)
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Dec 2, 2003, 11:11 AM
 
Sorry I can't be of any help to pdmarsh on this one.

As for jgcan - are you on a slow connection? I am on a terribly slow connection at work, and when that is the case, I frequently get those errors in Safari.
When I on my faster connection at home, I rarely if ever get them.

As for my original problem (Safari needing to be killed to get it to quit or even close out), I upgraded to the newest Java release (on the Apple developer page) and that helped the problem.
It still takes a relatively long time to close out or quit, but it will do it within 30 seconds, whereas before it would not do it within several minutes.

The downside of this is that the new Java release seems to have broken my Eclipse IDE. So I will wait on a new release of Eclipse I guess.
     
Gul Banana
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Dec 2, 2003, 12:30 PM
 
Semi-comedic "Omniweb" option.
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pdmarsh
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Dec 2, 2003, 12:30 PM
 
The odd thing is that whether I've configured my home network Macs for DHCP or fixed local network addresses, the issue continues. This occurs while the DSL DHCP Router (SpeedStream 5660) retains the same IP address provided by the ISP. Note that during these episodes that IE continues to access the Internet just fine on these Macs.

I know it's a weird situation, but I've having difficulty narrowing the issue down. My iBook on the home LAN has never experienced this issue, but it's put to Sleep whenever it's not in use. Only my desktop Macs (G4 Tower - Sawtooth and G4 iMac 17") have exhibited this behavior, and they're both on 24x7 with Screen Saver and HD sleep enabled, but with one System configured to Never sleep, and the other configured to go to sleep after 3 hours.

My iBook is running 10.2.8, as is my G4 Tower. I've upgraded my iMac to a pristine build of 10.3.1 (not an Update or Archive and Install). That's the odd part. If it were a hardware issue on my Macs, two different Macs shouldn't exhibit the issue. With two different generation Macs, the only common themes are the Mac OS and the LAN DSL Router.

However, again, when these events occur, everything else on the local network remains connected to the Internet just fine, and even these Macs can access everything else on the local network just fine. And, to reiterate, IE on both these Macs continues to access the Internet just fine, as well.

That leaves just the bowels of the MacOS to look at. Safari, iSync, iDisk, and FTP lose Internet connectivity every two to three days on the iMac, and every week or so on the G4 Tower. IE continues fine.

I tried changing the Energy Saver settings from Never sleep to sleep after three hours. I've tried disabling iSync synchronization from every hour and automatic synchronization of iDisk, in various combinations, to no avail. I've even turned off other apps on these Macs that connect to the Internet on their own regularly, such as Watson, but that hasn't helped either.

I'd do another fresh install, but with two Macs exhibiting this behavior, I don't see how that would help. I'm mystified that more other people aren't experiencing this issue, since it so clearly seems to be related to the MacOS.
- Dave Marsh
     
Gul Banana
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Dec 2, 2003, 01:28 PM
 
Originally posted by pdmarsh:
the only common themes are the Mac OS and the LAN DSL Router.
I'm mystified that more other people aren't experiencing this issue, since it so clearly seems to be related to the MacOS.
Code:
ifconfig en0 | sed -ne 's/.*mtu\ //p;s/[iems].*//'
If that returns 1500, try
Code:
sudo ifconfig en0 mtu 1492
Then leave it for three days and see what happens.
( Last edited by Gul Banana; Dec 2, 2003 at 01:38 PM. )
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pdmarsh
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Dec 2, 2003, 01:48 PM
 
I'm not Unix skilled, but I'd certainly be willing to open up the Terminal and try this out:

ifconfig en0 | sed -ne 's/.*mtu\ //p;s/[iems].*//'

I assume this will return some info about my TCP/IP configuration. When I ran this on another Mac, it returned the number 1500. What exactly do the arguments mean, and how will it help?

Thanks for the reply.
- Dave Marsh
     
pdmarsh
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Dec 2, 2003, 02:33 PM
 
OK, I did a little research since my last post and I'll give this change a try when I get home.

Is it enough to do this just on the Macs affected, or does every device on the network have to be changed?
- Dave Marsh
     
pdmarsh
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Dec 4, 2003, 02:16 AM
 
Well, the saga continues. I changed the MTU packet size to 1492 as proposed, but it had no effect. Again this evening, my Apple apps all lost Internet connectivity, even, again, as Internet Explorer continued surfing away.
- Dave Marsh
     
theolein
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Dec 4, 2003, 04:10 AM
 
FWIW. I have to restart Safari in Panther about once a day, since it sometimes loses connectivity after coming back from sleep. I am sort of used to it now.
weird wabbit
     
OMGWTFBBQ  (op)
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Dec 4, 2003, 10:41 AM
 
After upgrading to the newer (beta) Java, it helped a lot, but the problem with that is that now Eclipse, Acquisition, Poisoned, and Proteus don't work (well, Proteus works, but it is having visual issues).

It is to the point where I'd rather have to put up with Safari sucking a little until the next Java update is out for real, instead of losing some of my apps.
     
JayTay
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Dec 4, 2003, 07:18 PM
 
OK, completely OT but are you the same OMGWTFBBQ from SA? If not please ignore me.
     
Taipan
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Dec 4, 2003, 07:44 PM
 
Hi!

Just for your information: In Panther the MTU can be changed in the network preferences, no need to use the Terminal.
     
pdmarsh
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Dec 7, 2003, 01:02 AM
 
Well, I've tried changing the MTU to 1492, but it made no difference. My Apple apps still lost their Internet connectivity after two to three days, although Internet Explorer continues to access the Internet just fine.

During today's burp, before rebooting I took Internet Explorer to some new sites just to confirm it wasn't refreshing from its cache. It worked fine. Only Apple's apps (Safari, iSync, iDisk, FTP) are affected.

Any other ideas?
- Dave Marsh
     
skyman
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Dec 7, 2003, 02:46 AM
 
Originally posted by OMGWTFBBQ:
After a day of doing this and opening and closing other web pages (Slashdot mostly) then I try to close a window and it will sit on the rainbow spinner for well over 5 minutes and the application will not do anything else during this time - no other windows are accessible.
I can try to quit as well, and that won't work either - spinner again.
I have to go to the App Monitor and force quit that way.

This problem happens much sooner if I go to a site that is running a Java applet.

I am on a 1.25Ghz 15" AlBook running Panther with all of the updates.
I have a similar problem with Safari. I have noticed that after about 8 hours or more Safari takes up about 200 MEGs of RAM and then when I try to QUIT I get the pin wheel for about 30 second to 1 min.

Dual 1.24GHz G4 with 768 MB RAM
     
Gul Banana
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Dec 7, 2003, 06:20 AM
 
Sorry about the MTU change not working.. okay, then, the common link between the apps that stop working is CoreFoundation, and the CFURL classes. However, I've never seen them do anything bizarre at all before... what I'll do is prevent my computer from going to sleep for a few days and see if it exhibits the same issue, then debug further if it does. That might be tricky, though, as it's in my bedroom - it sleeps so that I can :/
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pdmarsh
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Mar 10, 2004, 05:34 PM
 
Well, after many months, I think the problem with my Mac losing its Internet connection in Safari/Mail/other Apple Internet apps (although not always Internet Explorer) is resolved. I've replaced my SpeedStream 5660 ADSL router with a new Zoom ADSL X5 modem/router. Since I installed this router last Friday, my iMac's Internet connection has been rock solid, so I've turned everything back on, including IP version 6 and my iDisk. Hopefully, this is the conclusion of a very frustrating issue.
- Dave Marsh
     
   
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