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MacAgent · Feb 23, 2004, 02:38 PM

WASHINGTON - The Army has decided to cancel its Comanche helicopter program, a multi-billion-dollar project to build a new-generation chopper for armed reconnaissance missions, officials said Monday.

The contractors for Comanche are Boeing Co. and Sikorsky Aircraft Corp.

With about $8 billion already invested in the program, and the production line not yet started, the cancellation is one of the largest in the history of the Army. It follows the Pentagon's decision in 2002 to cancel the Crusader artillery program -- against the wishes of Army leaders.

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disectamac · Feb 23, 2004, 02:40 PM

so why did they terminate?

SimeyTheLimey · Feb 23, 2004, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by disectamac:
so why did they terminate?

Was it needed? The Apache is a pretty good attack helicopter, and the Kiowa a pretty good reconaissance one.

disectamac · Feb 23, 2004, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Was it needed? The Apache is a pretty good attack helicopter, and the Kiowa a pretty good reconaissance one.

I think they should've made that assessment before 8 billion dollars

SimeyTheLimey · Feb 23, 2004, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by disectamac:
I think they should've made that assessment before 8 billion dollars

I agree, but the program probably started a decade or two ago. Military R&D has a very long lag time. It's still better to cancel the program now if it's not needed. That's better than the alternative argument, which tends to be "well, we've spent $8 billion, so why not spend $18 billion more?"

Teronzhul · Feb 23, 2004, 04:09 PM

Well, there goes all of "The Hulk's" historical accuracy.

Mister Elf · Feb 23, 2004, 04:24 PM

Goddammit, why did they cancel?! The Comanche was an amazing machine...would've replaced both the Kiowa and the Apache. Damned paper-pushers.

Logic · Feb 23, 2004, 04:57 PM

Interesting to see that in the link in the first post about the future of the military they talk about something little Sweden is already beginning to use, while the US doesn't have the capability to build it.

Vader�s Pinch of Death · Feb 23, 2004, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by disectamac:
so why did they terminate?

The Comanche has been a target of critics who say it was an expensive mistake.

�The Comanche program has been plagued with wildly unrealistic technological expectations and the bugaboo of pay more and get less. Cancellation of this program would free up funds for weapons that work and meet our country�s true national security needs,� said Eric Miller of the Project on Government Oversight, a private watchdog group.

SimeyTheLimey · Feb 23, 2004, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by Mister Elf:
Goddammit, why did they cancel?! The Comanche was an amazing machine...would've replaced both the Kiowa and the Apache. Damned paper-pushers.

But why replace the Kiowa and Apache?

engaged · Feb 23, 2004, 06:44 PM

If they've cancelled the Comanche - what chance does the V22 Osprey stand..?

CheesePuff · Feb 23, 2004, 07:13 PM

Originally posted by engaged:
If they've cancelled the Comanche - what chance does the V22 Osprey stand..?

ahh VTOL's, so easy to fly.

busket68 · Feb 23, 2004, 08:37 PM

That sucks.,.... what we need is another good COLD war. You know, nobody gettinb bombed, but just another superpower in a space race/arms race. Why? One reason: More James Bond movies.

- Ca$h

Logic · Feb 23, 2004, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by busket68:
That sucks.,.... what we need is another good COLD war. You know, nobody gettinb bombed, but just another superpower in a space race/arms race. Why? One reason: More James Bond movies.

- Ca$h

Gee4orce · Feb 24, 2004, 04:31 AM

My guess is they've cancelled it because Iraq has shown them that any peasant with a $10 RPG can bring down a helicopter worth $10M.

voodoo · Feb 24, 2004, 04:48 AM

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
But why replace the Kiowa and Apache?

I'm sure that when the US Army decided upon embarking on a multi-billion dollar r&d program for a new type of helicopter they had a neat list of good reasons why they were doing it.

Go ask them.

SimeyTheLimey · Feb 24, 2004, 07:27 AM

Originally posted by voodoo:
I'm sure that when the US Army decided upon embarking on a multi-billion dollar r&d program for a new type of helicopter they had a neat list of good reasons why they were doing it.

Go ask them.

Probably top of that list was "The Soviet Union."

voodoo · Feb 24, 2004, 07:50 AM

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Probably top of that list was "The Soviet Union."

I'm not privy to that list so I can't tell you. I'd hope the US Army would have better reasons than 'a country' to make a new helicopter.

engaged · Feb 24, 2004, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by Gee4orce:
My guess is they've cancelled it because Iraq has shown them that any peasant with a $10 RPG can bring down a helicopter worth $10M.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was a contributing factor - it must have cost them a lot of credibility.

From BBC News:
Senior army commanders say the decision to cancel the project was in part because of lessons learned in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Link to BBC News story.

Even back in 2002 it was looking sketchy for the project; link to BBC News story from 2nd September 2002.

KeyLimePi · Feb 24, 2004, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by engaged:
I wouldn't be surprised if this was a contributing factor - it must have cost them a lot of credibility.
Link to BBC News story.

Even back in 2002 it was looking sketchy for the project; link to BBC News story from 2nd September 2002.

That BBC article makes no sense to me. The Comanche had much more stealth and armor than Apaches, making it much better suited for the situation in Iraq.

Plus, it goes on to say that "...they decided their priority should be other types of new helicopters..." There aren't any 'new' helicopters that are as far along in develpment as the Comanche. Starting up a new program would just cost billions more.

Most likely, the reason for the cancelation was jobs and money. The Pentagon figured it could take the money it was spending on this one program and spread it out over a few existing programs (like Apache and Black Hawk). This means more jobs for the people in the states where those helos are built (AZ and CT). I mean, it is an election year...right?

mitchell_pgh · Feb 24, 2004, 03:16 PM

I think we (the USA) has figured out that we no longer need to worry about someone attacking us with a more advanced piece of electronics (may it be a boat, sub, jet etc.) and need to worry more about guys in semi trucks, commercial airplanes, explosives using gorilla tactics (aka terrorism).

Basically, even our "smart weapons" are too smart/expensive for what is required. We usually carpet bomb with good old WWII style devices.

Our government is still getting over the cold war.