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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Consumer Hardware & Components > iPod mini: ehh

iPod mini: ehh
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BoulderDash
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:08 PM
 
Anyone think this is great? It is cool, but for $50 more you can get 11GB more. Why would anyone not do that?

BD
     
mbryda
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:15 PM
 
Originally posted by BoulderDash:
Anyone think this is great? It is cool, but for $50 more you can get 11GB more. Why would anyone not do that?
I was thinking the same thing. What's the point? If you've got $250 to blow on a MP3 player, what's another $50???
     
ChadC
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:16 PM
 
I couldn't agree more. They missed the market by at least $50 if not $100. The people who buy these types of MP3 players don't care much about having all of their songs on their MP3 player. They just want something that will play a couple hours worth of songs that they can comfortably listen to while they are running or for whatever else they do for a low price.

I know a bunch of people that have the lowest level iPod(weather it be 10 gig or 5 gig) because they didnt have the money for a bigger one when it had taken them a month or so for them to be able to save for that model. They couldnt justify saving for an extra month just for the extra space.

If the iPod mini had maybe 1gig or 2gigs and was priced anywhere between $150-$200 they would have exploded and killed this market. But with this current configuration, I just don't see it happening.

-Chad
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k2director
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:16 PM
 
Would have felt a lot better for me had it been $199. Like you said, you gain a smaller form factor, but for $50 more, you can get 11 gigs more in a form factor that most people found pretty small to begin with.

When Apple drops the price on the mini to $199, I think it will make more sense.
     
spiky_dog
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:19 PM
 
size and newness are its draws. personally, i think it's an ok deal, just not in comparison with the 15 gb model. i bought my 5 gb for $199 through my school back in march 2002 so $249 for 4 gb of new hotness is about right imo
     
zilmer
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:23 PM
 
It should have been:

- 2gigs
- Flash memory based
- even smaller
- for $150
- with Bluetooth headphones

Then it would have been an absolute hit... Right now I would definitely get the regular iPod for just a few extra bucks.
     
xdude
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:25 PM
 
Indeed, they totally missed the price point once again. Although to some the (barely) smaller size is worth the price. I just don't see how it competes in the market Steve was pointing out.
     
southtdi
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:27 PM
 
I agree with K2Director that $199 is the price it should have been. I think it is a cool looking product and being aluminum it will appeal to many out there but I don't think it will sell like the hotcakes they think it will.

When Jobs was showing the charts and was about to announce the price I figured he was going to indroduce it at the same price as the flash chart he had but the extra money threw me.

Oh Well, I was dispointed that they didn't indroduce new displays.
     
iJed
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:27 PM
 
I actually had my credit card on front of me in order to buy the new small iPod model... But this thing is so stupidly priced and under-specced compared to the 15G I simply have no intention of paying for it. I really do not see Apple gaining a great deal of market share with this. They would have just been better taking $50 off of the 10G model and selling that.

Oh well. Really disappointing. Hopefully at least we can download the new iPhoto...
     
cantona7
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:28 PM
 
I agree. $199 would of been the price to go for. the only thing i can think of is that they don't want to kill sales of the previous ipod models. if it was $199 or less, then why buy a bigger one when 4gb will hold enough songs for most people.

then again, the thing is really small and really really cool looking. i can see lots of "trendies" (i live in new york city) buying them.

maybe producing the new ipod is not possible for less than $250.

oh... and i think the sizes are all a bit messed up.... 4... 15.... 20... 40.

i'm bit disappointed really.
     
hudson1
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:30 PM
 
This is foolishly suicidal. The whole idea, I thought, was to saturate the market with players to prevent Microsoft from closing off the entire digital music market with a proprietary DRM scheme. There's hardly a person out there that's going to buy an iPod today that wouldn't have bought one yesterday or last month. To me, Apple is saying "Walk right in, Microsoft, we're not going to stand in your way".
     
Arkham_c
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:30 PM
 
Originally posted by zilmer:
It should have been:

- 2gigs
- for $150

Then it would have been an absolute hit... Right now I would definitely get the regular iPod for just a few extra bucks.
The thing is, for many of us, we'd rather have no player than one that costs $250.

If it had been 2 gigs and $150, I would've ordered one today. For me, it's just not worth $250 to take my music with me.

I want a nice, easy-to-use player that works with iTunes and AAC and costs less than $200. I'm sure I'm not the only one. $150 is low enough that I can just buy one on an impulse. $250 is not.
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Proudest Monkey
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:30 PM
 
apple blew it
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Nebrie
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:30 PM
 
I just showed a Windows using friend who is really cheap, and he couldn't believe they managed to make it for $250.
     
BoulderDash  (op)
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:31 PM
 
Yeah, I really don't think it does compete with that market (the other 31%). The iPod mini is more of a "bridge" to the high end market. But where that bridge falls short is that if for $50 more you can get close to 4x more the storage (15GB vs. 4GB)... is the space given up worth the new colors and smaller size? Do you absolutely have to wear those new yellow Gucci jeans with the small pockets that the iPod won't fit in?

BD
     
chrisutley
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:32 PM
 
Bluetooth headphones, etc.? Then it could have cost as much as the low-end iPod, that would be super! I remember similar complaints when the first iPod was introduced. People were saying how a $500 music player is crazy, never going to fly and so on. These mini iPods will do just fine.

$300 is a significant barrier and $250 addresses a huge chunk of the pie. You may say to yourself (only $50 more), but it will hit the market they are targeting.

The size will be a huge factor. It's going to sell great to people that exercise with their devices, including existing iPod owners. Teens are going to gobble them up, because of price, size, and colors.
     
Boochie
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:33 PM
 
That's exactly how I feel too. I couldn't believe it when he announced the price. I was fully expecting him to say $199 or $149. $249 doesn't make any sense, and I can't imagine how this will help penetrate the market he was talking about.

I had been thinking that for $149, I'd throw one in when I buy a G5. For $249, forget it. I can do without.

Originally posted by Arkham_c:
The thing is, for many of us, we'd rather have no player than one that costs $250.

If it had been 2 gigs and $150, I would've ordered one today. For me, it's just not worth $250 to take my music with me.

I want a nice, easy-to-use player that works with iTunes and AAC and costs less than $200. I'm sure I'm not the only one. $150 is low enough that I can just buy one on an impulse. $250 is not.
     
jbelch3
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:34 PM
 
The cube again...(Under spec over priced) Does Jobs realize that most people buy the cheaper flash models because of the price? How is the miniPod going to win over any of the flash-based market with that price?
     
ChadC
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:36 PM
 
This is the first time since switching in 1998 that I have been extremely dissapointed in a product Apple has put out. I just don't understand. For $150 I woulda ordered one today.
O well..

Hopefully the in-ear headphones are nice. For the price they are tempting but I would like to see a review or two first before I get 'em.

Any thoughts on them?

-Chad
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chrisutley
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:36 PM
 
You guys crack me up. Apple does not have a huge margin on these devices. The storage devices gobble up a huge portion of the cost.

Yes it would be great if Apple gave away iPods for free, or sold them at half their cost. Of course, the cannot do that. Apple will never make super cheap-o iPods, the margins are too razor thin and it's not where Apple competes. They compete on higher-end products, so if you want a $150 flash player go at it - the iPod line is not for you OR wait a year or two for the hard drive prices to go down.
     
terrancew_hod
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:37 PM
 
I thought it was a typo... hope they didn't make too many of them. I saw that price and thought "Steve is high". I'll take the extra 11GB for $50 more please...

And after he made this speech about going after the $100 dollar market... then offers a "mini" $250 player... I wish him luck...

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i am yujin
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:38 PM
 
All I have to say is damn.

I really wanted these miniPods ever since I first heard of the rumors since I won't use too much space for my music but 4 or whatever would be just right for me....

....BUT FOR $250!?

I would mos def sacrifice size of the ipod, color, and some new interface for price.
     
PookJP
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:40 PM
 
If the idea was to allow people who would otherwise not buy an iPod due to money to do now purchase one, Apple has completely failed. For people who find $299 too expensive, $250 is also too expensive, especially given the dramatically decreased storage capacity. People need the psychological distance a different integer in the hundreds place makes to coax them into believing they are saving significant money.

Apple appears to have become too cocky about the appeal of their product. iPod is selling well despite its price, but there are competitors out there who are now offering alternatives with equal specs at significantly lower prices. iPod Mini should have undercut those competitors while still offering style, usability, and storage space.

iPod Mini embodies everything Apple nay-sayers cry at every turn: overpriced style with mediocre substance.
It's the devil's way now.
     
i am yujin
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:42 PM
 
Originally posted by PookJP:

iPod Mini embodies everything Apple nay-sayers cry at every turn: overpriced style with mediocre substance.
That is a good quote. In fact, I will put that in my sig.
     
smogscythe
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:44 PM
 
Well, all I say about that design is, damn!
But you're right. When the original iPod first came out, everyone was like, $500?! No way!
But in today's keynote, Stevie said there are two markets: low-price and high-price for flash-based MP3 players. The mini is for the high-end (even though it's not flash-based).
It's cool factor now. My teenage sibs are going crazy right now! Green! No, no, Pink! Wow!

I think Apple will win this out.
     
drive-thru
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:45 PM
 
hope they didn't make too many of them.
I wonder how many of the green ones they've made.
     
PookJP
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:45 PM
 
Originally posted by chrisutley:
You guys crack me up. Apple does not have a huge margin on these devices. The storage devices gobble up a huge portion of the cost.

Yes it would be great if Apple gave away iPods for free, or sold them at half their cost. Of course, the cannot do that. Apple will never make super cheap-o iPods, the margins are too razor thin and it's not where Apple competes. They compete on higher-end products, so if you want a $150 flash player go at it - the iPod line is not for you OR wait a year or two for the hard drive prices to go down.
Then why bother making it at all? MiniPod is not going to sell well -- it can't, it doesn't make sense. So if the margin is so thin, any money made to recoup development and marketing will only come with tons of units sold. That won't happen, so why bother making it in the first place?
It's the devil's way now.
     
arclight
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:46 PM
 
Great product, stupid price. In six months it will be $199 or hopefully $150. I was so pissed at the price I shut my mac off and went to lunch-

You blew it Steve, nice software updates though-
---------------------------------------
     
iJed
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:46 PM
 
I was fully willing to pay $150 and would probably have gone and just bought a $200 model but $250? Are they insane? In all my years of watching MacWorld expos I have simply never been so disappointed in an Apple product. Its not that the iPod mini is not good though. Its just totally priced out of the market that it is meant to serve. Time to use the word "overpriced" many times in the iPod mini feedback form.
     
PookJP
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:46 PM
 
Originally posted by i am yujin:
That is a good quote. In fact, I will put that in my sig.
Well cheers!
It's the devil's way now.
     
powerbook867
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:47 PM
 
they blew it with the price..I'll spend the extra 50 and upgrade my 5 to a 15 gig...It's really too bad...price is just way too high for an entry level device...
Joe
     
baglunch
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Jan 6, 2004, 03:48 PM
 
I believe their pricing was on point for THIS device, the recently announed RIO nitrus (also 4gb) is shipping for $250, close in size to the minipod, and probably the same internal drive.

I do agree, a $200 minipod would have been more on point with what people are willing spend. If they did that, then they'd have to get a smaller drive for the device, and at $200 for 2gb (previous rio nitrus is 1.5gb for $210) it's worth the extra $50.

As someone else already said, the 15gb ipod, and minipod may be a $50 difference, but its real selling points are its smaller size, color options, and newness hype.

Not everyone is looking for the best bang for their buck. If that were true, most designer clothing labels would be out of business.
     
i am yujin
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Jan 6, 2004, 04:03 PM
 
"iPod Mini embodies everything Apple nay-sayers cry at every turn: overpriced style with mediocre substance." -PookJP
yo w3rd.
     
MusicalTone
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Jan 6, 2004, 04:15 PM
 
I agree with all the points above. They blew it on price. It looks like it has been priced specifically to get you to go for the $299 15 gig model. But the design .... the design is awesome. It is so small - the size of a credit card! Awesome. I guess they were worried it would cannibalize the more expensive models. But surely the ball they should be following right now is the market share/penetration ball. There are lots of ways they could have clawed back another $50 per sale through accessories and addons, etc. etc. Not to mention extra sales through iTMS.

Personally though, as someone who lives in Europe, the big bummer is that we have to wait 4 months until April to order these babies. 4 Months!!
     
Arkham_c
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Jan 6, 2004, 04:24 PM
 
Originally posted by iJed:
In all my years of watching MacWorld expos I have simply never been so disappointed in an Apple product. Its not that the iPod mini is not good though. Its just totally priced out of the market that it is meant to serve.
Oh, I was disappointed, but this was not even in the same league as the ".mac" debacle. I was using my @mac.com email address exclusively and was a huge proponent of it. I was so pissed off I didn't watch the rest of the keynote.

This one just disappoints me. As an Apple stockholder, I'd rather them sell a cheaper model so people would BUY it, and my stock could go up. I suspect that people will not be buying this at this price.
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fisherKing
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Jan 6, 2004, 04:25 PM
 
more agreement. $50 more for 15gigs is SOworthwhile, but...for those of us who dont NEED an ipod (but at under $200 might buy one), the mini is a great idea.

great idea, overpriced.

let's see how it does, and if the price drops soon...
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
mamamia
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Jan 6, 2004, 04:27 PM
 
i don't get it.
does apple have any intention of actually keeping any of the markets it creates, or is it content to simply cede maturing markets to price leaders like dell and instead concern itself with creating the next great thing? if so, why? yes, the company is innovative, chic, and profitable. but it is also limited, marginalized, and in perpetual peril of technological irrelevancy.
again, i ask why? there doesn't seem to be any reason for not pushing aggressivley into a NEW price point. in the past, i thought that the reason they couldn't compete with the dell's of the world was the sheer volume that dell did compared to apple. but now apple is the volume king; surely they can beat rio into smytherines on the price front if they wanted to? right?
it appears apple is content with being what it is - an $8 - $10 billion/year company. dell does five times that amount of business, and I have no doubt that they will do ten time that amount in a couple of years.
i just don't see why apple is content with this state of affairs when they have so much damn TALENT.
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hudson1
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Jan 6, 2004, 04:28 PM
 
The best deal in the whole product line is likely to be close-out pricing on the 10GB model. Lower than the new 4GB iPod???
     
osiris
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Jan 6, 2004, 04:38 PM
 
It is nice that it is smaller, but that price is still too GD high. + the color schemes are too pastel for me too - Jet Black would have been nice.

It looks like they made the mini iPod for Valley Girls/Malibu Barbie types.
     
utkucan
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Jan 6, 2004, 04:40 PM
 
i think the problem most of you can't see the point of the $249 price tag is because - no offence - you're not living in the consumawhore world that is known as the teenage generation

i personally think that the price is STUPID and there is no way i myself can afford one but:

i can think of at least 100 spoilt litte teenage girls from my school who spin their daddies on their little fingers and will be going around with them as soon as they're shipped

do you really think they care how much it costs? their daddies will no matter what get the iPod mini for them because they wouldn't want their princess not looking hip now would they

joking aside - the trend waves in schools and in geenral teenagers scare me... just an example - i'd talk about iPods before the advertisements started and they'd be like "whaa" and now after the whole advertisement scheme - all these teenage girls with their annoying voices going "i'm getting an iPod - a PINK one..." and me going they don't even come in colours for F***'S SAKE...

oh surprise, surpise - what's this iPods in colours? yep - i'm sure as hell that apple has trend followers and they know exactly what they're doing

to end the rant - we're not their target market - they are... 15GB iPod is for us. the iPod mini is for them. And believe me, oh believe me they will SELL, SELL, SELL...

good marketing scheme on Apple's side i'll say...
     
FTrain
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Jan 6, 2004, 04:43 PM
 
I'm witholding judgment on this one. My first reaction was that they're idiots, and my second and continuing reaction is that the mini is not the player for me. But I'm guessing there may be a market of teens and early 20s who would go ape over the size and color. Sure, $199 would have been a better price, and I wouldn't pay $50 less for a player with a fraction of the capacity of the 15GB iPod. But the comment about purchasers of designer clothing not basing their purchases on bang for the buck is accurate. I can see this going especially to that same market of teenage girls who will readily, without flinching, drop $150-$200 on a pair of jeans. It is incredibly small, stylish, trendy.

And as for not aiming for the cheapskate price point (the price point at which I am firmly embedded), there may also be something to be said for the delicate prestige factor Apple needs to maintain. I'm seeing more and more iPods out there, but there remains a knowing look in the eyes of the folks who have them right now that they don't just have any old thing--they have the thing that only select people actually get. I feel the same way when a Windows using friend comes into my apartment for the first time and starts oohing and ahhing about my flat-panel iMac. To me, the effect has long since warn off (though I do still love working on it). However, there is a prestige still out there because of the relative rarity and style of the machine. I love seeing Apple thrive, but given what they have become--almost glorifying their niche-chic--they have to be extremely careful about becoming too ubiquitous. Maybe, for the sake of the larger brand, Apple can't sell a $150 MP3 player that will show up everywhere. I don't claim to understand marketing theory, and what I'm saying may be nonsense (you marketing experts feel free to chime in). But I'm guessing they wouldn't have rolled this out unless they had some compelling data to indicate that the "Legally Blonde" set would go bonkers to buy this. I'm betting they couldn't care less what us die-harders think, because they know we'd puke on a pink case anyway.
     
BZ
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Jan 6, 2004, 04:44 PM
 
Everyone is missing the point (here, slashdot, etc) of being a business.

Lets go back 2 years to when the original iPod (5gb, big, square) for $500. Everyone went bonkers! $500 for an MP3 Player? No way.

iTMS... $.99 for song! Now way!

This is business. This is called a product market purchasing cycle. When it first comes out, get the early adopters to buy it at a higher price premium. When sales start to come down from there, lower the price and sell more the next level.

$250 is fine. It will sell like crazy to everyone who A) wanted a smaller iPod and B) didn't want to pay $300-$500 for an MP3 player.

If this came out two years ago.. there would still be people saying that $250 was way too much for an MP3 player.

I know this is going to hurt, but Apple's marketing and pricing departments know what they are doing. They do tons of market research which is not just reading slashdot and these websites.

If you don't like the price, don't buy it. My guess is they will sell 200,000 of those minis in just this quarter.

BZ
     
hagheid
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Jan 6, 2004, 04:52 PM
 
NOT going to sell well ? Despite being insane are you willing to take a wager?
$250 too much? Yeah, like NO pleb in the ghetto buys 'Xpensive' gear, they all aspire to Wallmart trainers etc.
O.K. How about 50? still too dear? Perhaps a KTel product will suffice. What about a wind-up gramophone strapped with rope to your bare back; Still too dear?
In fact why not simply hum as you flip the burgers or sweep the streets?
I fear some of us here ( buyers of expensive Apple products) might appear to be a tad condescending towards the hoi-polloi out 'there'!
Regarding size. how many miles do these geeks jog that they need more than 4gigs of music?
What's next iDick?
     
mamamia
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Jan 6, 2004, 04:54 PM
 
Originally posted by utkucan:

i can think of at least 100 spoilt litte teenage girls from my school who spin their daddies on their little fingers and will be going around with them as soon as they're shipped
very interesting. could this be a direct attack on the untapped teenage female population? they won't be so concerned with the value of the gigabyte - the difference between 4 gigabytes and 40 gb probably means next to nothing to them. its the colors and size and cool "oooh, gotta have it!" factor. very very thought provoking.

and i love the way the commercials introduced the concept of color and ipods into the public concousness, thereby seeding the minds of future customers. now the promise implicit in those commercials is being delivered upon.

on second thought, i agree with you. maybe apple marketing and product development do know what they're doing.
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Jan 6, 2004, 04:54 PM
 
Just restating what everyone else has already said. They totally missed the price point even for Apple's high$ it should have come in at $199. You know this price will come down once the newness of it comes down, but they should have priced it more reasonably. Well, good luck with that I guess.
     
Mallrat
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Jan 6, 2004, 05:00 PM
 
Yes, I too was expecting 199, but we got 250.

But it makes sense to me.

I think people missed Jobs point. There are sub 100 dollar flash players that hold one or two ablums that no one uses or if they do, they have to spend more moeny on memory cards to get more songs.

Then there are the higher end models above 100 dollars, but below the top of the line MP3 players such as the iPod.

Jobs was saying there are 3 types of players.

- Under $100 bucks.
- Between $100 bucks and $250
- $250 and above

As far as I can tell, they aren't going to make one for 100 bucks, at least not know, and not one that can't hold at least 1000 songs.

So they came out with a player to be the best $250 player and under. It kicks the rest ass for sure.

The iPod, even though the lowest one is only $50 bucks more, the top of the line models are much more in price that the mini-pod.

So it's like the mini-pod only has one model $250, but we should be comparing it to the 40GB as that is the top of the line at $499.

But even so, I bought the iPod 15 GB and I love it. And if given the choice today, I still love the iPod.

But these mini-pods for sure fit a great niche. I feel these are more for the teenagers out there. It's also great for runners.

And as you know, smaller is always better and more expensive, so don't forget that.

People love the smallest cell phones, or digital cameras. I mean 2.0 ounces means a lot to people. The fact that is even smaller than the iPod will excitie people.

So Apple didn't mess up. They made them smaller, added color, and are going after a different market.

It's going to work. People underestimate choices. Not just how many GBs, but size and feel.

I mean I have a 15GB, but right now I only have 980 songs on it, so this mini-pod would be fine for me.

I mean it's nice to have both. For different situations.

Anyway, these will sell great.

People are also forgetting that the prices will lower for sure, different GB will come out, and the iPods themselves might be updated soon to colors.

So be disappointed all you want. And go buy the 15GB.

It's a win, win for all. We all win. Today you got 5GB for free, and others got a new choice of apple mp3 to choose from.

And plenty of people will want one over the iPod.

Price isn't everything, or no one would have bought an Ipod in the 1st place.

The fact that they are designed so well, means everything.

Think of it this way. Apple isn't competing against itself.

Who would buy a 20 inch imac when it's so expensive? I mean shouldnt' they just buy a G5 and monitor for just as much?

But some people want that all in one. Some people don't need the G5.

They choose form factor over power. Same with the iPod.

Buy what works for you.
     
Thain Esh Kelch
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Denmark
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Jan 6, 2004, 05:04 PM
 
Originally posted by Proudest Monkey:
apple blew it
Again.

*Cough*Cube*Cough*

GREAT product, great future, waaay to big a price.
     
baglunch
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Jan 6, 2004, 05:05 PM
 
I don't think the price will come down until they introduce the upgrade to the 4gb. Even then they'll probably demote the 4gb to the $200 price point, leaving the new(er) device (6gb? 8gb?) at the premium price of $250.

But then again i'm only talkin about the direct apple store pricing, i'm sure other mail order vendors will offer it for cheaper through online incentives.
     
scottiB
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Jan 6, 2004, 05:05 PM
 
The original 5GB iPod was $399; the 10GB was released in April 2002 for $499.
I am stupidest when I try to be funny.
     
Tarabella
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Jan 6, 2004, 05:12 PM
 
I watched the keynote live online. When Steve announced the price he was greeted by complete silence. He couldn't have received a cooler reception if he announced that it was a Windows only product.
     
 
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