[bebeblue]

I have my mind set on purchasing a 12'' PowerBook G4 after finally saying goodbye to a 4-year old i-book. But I'm torn between one with SuperDrive or without. It seems like the only difference is that one with SuperDrive can burn DVDs and one without cannot, am I right? In that case, I don't think SuperDrive is worth paying $200 for since I haven't felt the need to burn DVD-R at all ever since I started to use computers. Any opinions?

[SketchPad]

You'd only regret not getting one later
on because your needs for backup
will increase once you get a bigger
harddisk.

When I had a desktop computer with
20-40 gigabytes...the os and programs
filled up to 16 Gb...a 700 mb cd-writer/burner
did the job just fine..

Now...with my shiny new powerbook
with its 80 gigabytes...my personal
needs also increase, meaning...
everything changes...

We now take photos with 8 megapixel
resolutions...filesizes on a single photo
varies between 3 and 23 megabytes, not
to mention photoshop editing ending up
with A4-papersize with layers...200 megabyte
per page EASILY....back that one up on a
cd..and you can perhaps fit 2-3 more editable
pages onto that disc.

4,7 GB of CD space (DVD) really comes in
handy when your needs expand...documents
are generally bigger today...and so
is everything else...

It's up to you and your individual needs
to decide wether its worth it or not.

I'd do it (actually...I did it)...

[Toyin]

If you've ever made an iMovie or even have an itch to make a movie with iMovie, I'd get the superdrive. The ability to distribute your movies/pictures to friends and family in the form of a DVD is nothing short of astounding.

Ditto on the backup thing, but I've found that a firewire enclosure and use of all my old hard drives a much faster and easier way to back up gigabytes of data.

[SEkker]

My superdrive was the most unexpectedly useful purchase on this PB. Unless you have access to a desktop machine for video editing, a superdrive is an essential part of a modern PB purchase.

You won't regret it!

[grayware]

Absolutely. It's a convenience I can't be without.

[Drakino]

Agreed. My Superdrive in my Powerbook has been useful on several occasions now. It's the only DVD burner I own. So far, my primary use of it is to give larger files to people, usually on a DVD-RW disk so I can reuse it later.

$200 more, plus a few bucks for a few RW discs seems more attractive to me then spending $150 on a single 512 MB USB storage device. For a bit more, you get 4.7GB.

The only downside is the 1x burning to the RW discs. 2x to the normal DVD-R discs is nice though.

[PeteWK]

I think everyone's lost their collective mind here. Get it with a Combo drive and get an external. The 1X drive the Powerbooks come with is a joke. The first time you burn at 4X or more you'll be glad you listened to me.

PeteWK

[SketchPad]

Originally posted by PeteWK:
I think everyone's lost their collective mind here. Get it with a Combo drive and get an external. The 1X drive the Powerbooks come with is a joke. The first time you burn at 4X or more you'll be glad you listened to me.

PeteWK

Didnt know if you knew this already....but
the new powerbooks come with 2 x speed
for dvd writing, of course 4 & 8 is faster
but it aint as slow as just 1 anymore...

[Toyin]

Originally posted by PeteWK:
I think everyone's lost their collective mind here. Get it with a Combo drive and get an external. The 1X drive the Powerbooks come with is a joke. The first time you burn at 4X or more you'll be glad you listened to me.

PeteWK

I use my superdrive DVD-R function with iDVD 99% of the time. There's no official support for external DVD burners. I know there's a patch that can be applied, but if Apple wanted to block this I'm sure they could.

For backups a 4-8x burner seems better than 1-2x burner, but I'd still use an external firewire hard drive.

[Buck_W]

Originally posted by PeteWK:
I think everyone's lost their collective mind here. Get it with a Combo drive and get an external. The 1X drive the Powerbooks come with is a joke. The first time you burn at 4X or more you'll be glad you listened to me.

PeteWK

I've heard that you cannot use iDVD with an external burner, is that still the case? If so, does Toast come with cool themes (or at least something similar) like iDVD? If it doesn't, what do you do to "dress up" your movie, using Toast?

[PeteWK]

A friend of mine has the new model with a 2X burner. Its been so spotty on 2X (50% failure rate) that he's had to use it on 1X for fear of making expensive coasters.

The external models are 5.25 and made for more rugged applications (read: don't get as hot as the portable models).

As for the software issues, I don't know. I have a 1 gig iMac at the office and haven't had problems with it. We only use iDVD though we have the new Toast program.

PeteWK

[mdc]

Originally posted by Buck_W:
I've heard that you cannot use iDVD with an external burner, is that still the case? If so, does Toast come with cool themes (or at least something similar) like iDVD? If it doesn't, what do you do to "dress up" your movie, using Toast?

there is a patch somewhere. try searching these forums. the patch will allow 3rd party dvd burners in iDVD.

to answer the question about the dvdr. i bought the 12" with a combo drive and then returned it because there was something wrong with it, they did not have anymore combo drives, so i paid the $200 extra and got the superdrive. i am so happy that happened. the ability to burn 4.7gig at a time is too great. and idvd and imovies dvds are in the pipeline for me too. i recently got a 15" powerbook and i had to get the superdrive model because i know i would regret it down the line if i did not.

[chabig]

You don't need a patch to run iDVD on a non-superdrive machine. The latest version runs just fine without the superdrive, and lets you save the project in a file to take to a machine with a burner. This was a major new feature touted with the latest iLife. It especially makes life easier for schools.

From http://www.apple.com/ilife/idvd/newfeatures.html

"If you�re not watching a DVD on your next cross-country flight, you can take advantage of iDVD�s new Save As Archive feature and begin your next DVD project enroute. Because archiving lets you save iDVD projects as self-contained units that are completely portable. Start them on one Mac. Finish them on another. You say your iBook doesn�t have a SuperDrive? Not a problem. Choose Archive Project from the File menu, and when you get home, move it to a Mac that has a SuperDrive and burn it there."

Chris

[mdc]

i think people are talking about burning idvd projects with a 3rd party dvd burner in idvd

[terrancew_hod]

I like having the superdrive. It's come in handy when I have been away from home. And it's great for backing up my drive with some of the stuff I accumulate. Of course it's not as great as having a 4x burner (I have an external as well) but when you're away from home as much as I am, it's a nice feature.

Terrance

[Buck_W]

Originally posted by mdc:
i think people are talking about burning idvd projects with a 3rd party dvd burner in idvd

Yes, that's what I am interested in doing. I have found the link to the patch that allows you use an external burner with iDVD:

http://forum.rpc1.org/viewtopic.php?t=23370

But I am still interested in the capabilities of Toast 6. I went to their website and watched their demo... it was very impressive. But I would still be interested in finding out whether Toast has "themes" like iDVD does. Does anyone know?

[scottiB]

I'd pony-up for the SuperDrive.

Reasons:

• From the length of time you kept you iBook, I'm presuming you'll keep this PowerBook as long. I'd also presume that in the next 4 years, you'll find a need to burn a DVD-R--primarily for the fact that the hard drive on the PBook is at least 4x the size of a 1999-era iBook (the iBookSE shipped with a 10GB drive in 2000). Human nature what it is, if we have the space, we typically fill it. It's much easier to burn archives onto a 4.3GB (formatted) DVD-R--and to find that data later.
  
• Archiving (not backing-up). While it's been suggested to purchase an external FW drive for back-up, that postpones, not alleviates, the issue. Eventually, a 200GB drive becomes filled or can fail. Eventually, the data needs to be removed to make room for more, so you can archive to 7 CD-Rs or to one DVD-R (and store 7 CD-Rs to 1 DVD-R and flip through 7x as many discs to find what you may need). I'm in the process of trans-archiving data from CDs (and Zips, Jaz, and SyQuests, heh) to DVD-R to save closet space. Now, my needs may not be yours (and you may have another Mac or PC for these purposes).
  
• Drive Speed: I have a DP800 G4 with the first gen DVD-R drive. While it can burn at 2x, I typically burn at 1x (currently, I have a ton of 1x media that I bought on close-out), and it usually takes an hour to write 4.3GB to a DVD-R at 1x. While writing the disk in 15 minutes sounds appealing, the slower speed doesn't bother me too much because I'm rarely "watching" it. With OS X, it's always burning in the background while I'm writing, surfing, or even scanning. Now, if I were in a production environment, where tight deadlines are often, I might slap a newer DVD-R drive in, but, really a slower drive isn't an issue.
  
• iMovie/iDVD: While there is a way to use an external DVD-R drive with iDVD, having the portability of using iDVD anywhere is appealing. Right now, you may never see yourself using iDVD, but there will be a time in the future when you, a friend, family member, whoever, would like to do something with iMovie/iDVD, and all you need to is bring the PowerBook. Actually, I encourage you to explore iDVD: it really is a slick app.
  
• Cost: Purchasing an external DVD-R or hard drive as has been suggested will cost more than the $200 of the internal DVD-R drive and negate the portability of the PowerBook to be used.

I've had over a dozen friends, friends of friends, and family members purchase PowerBooks since the SuperDrive was available in PowerBooks in 10/02, and I've always suggested that they opt for the SuperDrive. None has felt that it was a bad investment.

Your mileage may vary...

[mdc]

Originally posted by scottiB:
[*]Cost: Purchasing an external DVD-R or hard drive as has been suggested will cost more than the $200 of the internal DVD-R drive and negate the portability of the PowerBook to be used.[/list]

[selowitch]

I too am contemplating the purchase of either an internal SuperDrive or an external FireWire drive, and was wondering: Do any of you do things like burn VHS tapes or TiVo programs, etc., to DVD (personal use only, of course)? I imagine this requires some additional hardware, such as EyeTV. What's it like? Is it as fun, convenient, and simple as it should be?

Please comment.

[rag on a muffin]

Originally posted by scottiB:
Purchasing an external DVD-R or hard drive as has been suggested will cost more than the $200 of the internal DVD-R drive and negate the portability of the PowerBook to be used. [/B]

i payed a whopping nothing for my superdrive. my friend gave it to me because he used it for his cube, and didn't need it after he bought his powerbook 17". try ebay, i think you could find one for pretty cheap because of this.

[PeteWK]

Originally posted by selowitch:
I too am contemplating the purchase of either an internal SuperDrive or an external FireWire drive, and was wondering: Do any of you do things like burn VHS tapes or TiVo programs, etc., to DVD (personal use only, of course)? I imagine this requires some additional hardware, such as EyeTV. What's it like? Is it as fun, convenient, and simple as it should be?

Please comment.

Looks like my Superdrive pan didn't get large play so I'll try this issue. I don't have a TiVo, but when I want to digitize a VHS tape, I plug it into my Sony MiniDV camera and copy it onto a MiniDV tape. Then I just copy it into iMovie onto my 160gb Hard Drive. From there it can be burned onto a DVD.

PeteWK

[trowa barton]

one thing to consider...if you are thinking of selling your powerbook in the future, the addition of a superdrive only increases the price compared to a combo drive.

It was one thing I considered when I purchased mine.

Burning a DVD is much better than burning multiple CD's. Even if it takes a little longer at 1x/2x.

[romeosc]

I bought a 8x pioneer "super drive" for $103, put in an extrnal firewire case and love it .... I can share it with all my computers!


8x is great!!!!!

[selowitch]

Originally posted by romeosc:
I bought a 8x pioneer "super drive" for $103, put in an extrnal firewire case and love it .... I can share it with all my computers!


8x is great!!!!!

Does one also need a video converter?

[Dr.Michael]

Originally posted by bebeblue:
I have my mind set on purchasing a 12'' PowerBook G4 after finally saying goodbye to a 4-year old i-book. But I'm torn between one with SuperDrive or without. It seems like the only difference is that one with SuperDrive can burn DVDs and one without cannot, am I right? In that case, I don't think SuperDrive is worth paying $200 for since I haven't felt the need to burn DVD-R at all ever since I started to use computers. Any opinions?

Does nobody here read tests?

The data security of DVD burners is very bad. Only 90% of the data can be read failure free on the BEST drives combined with the BEST DVD brands (what is best is drive specific).
The 8X burners are worse.

This is true for DVD +R and -R. DVD RAM is better and suitable for backups and archives.

So a DVD burner is ok if you burn movies, but NEVER USE THEM FOR DATA.

My sources are several tests in the german ct magazine which is 100% reliable.

[selowitch]

Originally posted by Dr.Michael:
Does nobody here read tests?

The data security of DVD burners is very bad. Only 90% of the data can be read failure free on the BEST drives combined with the BEST DVD brands (what is best is drive specific).
The 8X burners are worse.

This is true for DVD +R and -R. DVD RAM is better and suitable for backups and archives.

So a DVD burner is ok if you burn movies, but NEVER USE THEM FOR DATA.

My sources are several tests in the german ct magazine which is 100% reliable.

Assuming you're correct, should one consider a DVD-RW/DVD-RAM combo drive instead?

[chabig]

Of course you can burn data on a DVD. Always verify after burning, of course, but don't be afraid to use a burner for its intended purpose. Think about it, no data storage device would survive in the marketplace if it could only read 90% of the data. This would be big news if it were true, but its not.

Chris

[wtmcgee]

is there a way to upgrade a combo drive in an existing powerbook 1ghz 12" to a superdrive? i dont want to pay TOO much, but i'd rather get one installed than buy an external one.

unfortunately, i bought this 12" refurbished, and it came with a combo drive.

[Dr.Michael]

Originally posted by chabig:
Of course you can burn data on a DVD. Always verify after burning, of course, but don't be afraid to use a burner for its intended purpose. Think about it, no data storage device would survive in the marketplace if it could only read 90% of the data. This would be big news if it were true, but its not.

Chris

Ok, some don't seem to believe me.
I browsed the web but I only found tests about the burn speed.

What ct magazine did was the following:
They wrote data on the dvds and then read the data out again. With a special test system (CATS-Pro-DVD-Analyzer) they measured how many sectors of the dvds were read correctly.

The data gives a measure for the error correction capabilities of the drives. The first number shows the percentage of correctly read sectors in zones where jitter is hight, the second number in brackets is the percentage of correctly read sectors on a scratched dvd (that happens with all dvds). Test results are given for the best performing dvd brand for that special burner (Verbatim, Ricoh or Maxell).

The results:
Iomega Super DVD/LG GSA-4040B: 72.1% (85.2%)
MSI DR4-A: 72.2% (77.2%)
Dix-all DIX-DRW416: 100% (49.2%)
Nu Tech DDW-081: 63.8% (86.7%)

Depending on the dvd brand the write errors originating from jitter can vary dramatically and can lead to unreadable disks.

There is no link I can give. But the article can be bought online at www.heise.de. It can be found in ct magazine 23/2003 (November) on pages 176-179.

In a later issue they did a test only with 8X burners. The result was worse. But I only had a quick look in the store.

Maybe there is someone who understands german and who can confirm this (for the still non-believers )

I guess the burners are mainly used to copy movies. Thats possible.
But with data I would be very careful.

Michael

[selowitch]

Originally posted by Dr.Michael:
I guess the burners are mainly used to copy movies. Thats possible.
But with data I would be very careful.

What about DVD-RAM? Is that a more viable way to back up your data?

[romeosc]

Originally posted by selowitch:
Does one also need a video converter?

No Works great with toast etc.

[selowitch]

Originally posted by romeosc:
No Works great with toast etc.

I mean, don't you need a converter so that you can go from your video source (red-yellow-white) to some kind of a device that in turn connects to the Mac via FireWire?

[Toyin]

Originally posted by selowitch:
I mean, don't you need a converter so that you can go from your video source (red-yellow-white) to some kind of a device that in turn connects to the Mac via FireWire?

You need a DV Bridge. These usually run around $200 and up. I found a great deal on a Canon ZR65 ($299). This is a decent DV camcorder but has a DV bridge built in (as do many of the newer camcorders). The other option if you already have a DV camcorder is to record your video source onto a DV tape and then import it, into your computer. I did this with my Canon Optura PI until I got the newer camcorder.

[selowitch]

Originally posted by Toyin:
You need a DV Bridge. These usually run around $200 and up. I found a great deal on a Canon ZR65 ($299). This is a decent DV camcorder but has a DV bridge built in (as do many of the newer camcorders). The other option if you already have a DV camcorder is to record your video source onto a DV tape and then import it, into your computer. I did this with my Canon Optura PI until I got the newer camcorder.

Interesting. In effect, you're adding a camcorder to your DV bridge for only $100!

Are there any external DVD-RW/DVD+RW/DVD-RAM drives with a DV bridge built in?

Also, if your cable box or DirecTV box has S-video out, can you skip the DV bridge altogether and go straight to the Mac?

[Toyin]

Originally posted by selowitch:
Interesting. In effect, you're adding a camcorder to your DV bridge for only $100!

Are there any external DVD-RW/DVD+RW/DVD-RAM drives with a DV bridge built in?

Also, if your cable box or DirecTV box has S-video out, can you skip the DV bridge altogether and go straight to the Mac?

You're over my head now. My initial response would be no. You'd need at least a video capture card which can be found by the dozen for PCs but are less popular (and more expensive) for Macs. I know home theater DVD burners (ie Phillips, Sony) have the ability to burn video from different sources on the fly and are probably the best way to archive large amounts of video. The best place to search for your answers would be on the Digital A/V forum.

[Dr.Michael]

Originally posted by selowitch:
What about DVD-RAM? Is that a more viable way to back up your data?

As far as I know it is better. It was made for data storage. But the media are more expensive.

[todrain]

When I got my PowerBook, I only got the model with the SuperDrive because I wanted to buy the fastest stock machine Apple had. I found that it was really useful over the next year, however, and now I'm really glad I have it!