[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

No, that’s me.

I’m guessing a DO is a Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine.

If I recall person man's background correctly, you'd be correct.

I just thought of something: I am the first person in my family to go beyond a high school diploma. Both sides, as far back as anyone can determine (there are some pretty hard-core genealogists on both sides too). My mom had some college, and my dad was (I think) a master electrician, but no other formal academics at all. My wife, with her BS in nursing is also the only person in her family with a degree (though her brother-in-law has a BS in accounting).

Looking at that, I AM pretty damn proud of my academic accomplishments, especially with the financial background I came from. But I don't say "hey everybody-let's discuss the effect of the Reformation on Dutch colonial practices!" I don't mention my degrees unless there's a reason to-I did yesterday when helping a therapist with a computer problem. But I always try to help people out when they have computer problems anyway... I guess the point is that I started out being a non-jerk, and getting more education didn't change that, and other people's observations that they felt jerkism was a trait that was there regardless of education is probably pretty accurate.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

No, that’s me.

I’m guessing a DO is a Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine.

Yes, that's exactly right.

Since I live in the United States, I went to an American College of Osteopathic Medicine, which are fully accredited medical schools and as such, our degree is equivalent to the MD degree and we enjoy all the same rights and privileges as MDs in the practice of medicine.

American Osteopathic Association

Most of the rest of the world tends to follow the European model of Osteopathic education, whereby people obtain master's degrees in Osteopathy and are limited in scope of practice to Osteopathic Manipulation treatment.

For a European to have (basically) the same status that we do in the U.S. they would first need to go to medical school and get their MD degree (or equivalent in their country) and then get a Master's degree in Osteopathy.

Fun fact: Michigan State University has both a DO school and a MD school. Until recently (due to changes in how medicine is taught in the United States), students in both colleges had their first two years' classes together, with only difference being that the DO students had additional courses in Osteopathy that the MD students did not. The third and fourth years of both types of medical school usually consist of doing rotations at hospitals/doctor's offices/etc.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

If I recall person man's background correctly, you'd be correct.

Yup. See above.

[Buckaroo]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

Could you modify the MD line to say MD/DO?

I'm a physician, but I'm not an MD, I am a DO.

What's a DO?

Update: Never mind.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

What's a DO?

See above.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

Update: Never mind.

[BigBadWolf]

BM and a Graduate Diploma (it's like an MM, but I didn't have any classes really, just performance related ones {I'm a musician}).

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by ort888 

What's ironic is that almost all of my friends have multiple degrees, masters degrees, etc... yet we both make more money then just about all of them. God bless America.

What fields do you and your wife work in, out of curiosity?

[Gareth Johnston]

Honours degree in Mapping & Cartography.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

Fun fact: Michigan State University has both a DO school and a MD school.

This led to (and probably still leads to) an interesting bit of the rivalry between MSU and UofM (which has a very prestigious medical school of its own). Interesting bits of sniping can be heard in various clinics and sometimes on campus.

My family doctor when I was little was a DO. Osteopaths are (in my experience) better at people skills than MDs-is that part of the training?

[vexborg]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

Flere bibliotekarer! Halvdelen af mit hold er bibliotekarer.

Hehe... Er nogen fra dit hold fra årgang 2000 i København?

Arbejder ikke som bibliotekar mere, men som underviser hos TDC...

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by vexborg 

Hehe... Er nogen fra dit hold fra årgang 2000 i København?

Arbejder ikke som bibliotekar mere, men som underviser hos TDC...

Nej, jeg tror de er af lidt nyere årgang, sådan fra 2003 og fremefter – men de er alle sammen fra København. Jeg blev godt overrasket da jeg startede på ITU. Jeg havde mere eller mindre aldrig mødt en fra Bibliotekarskolen før, og pludselig sad jeg på et hold med intet mindre end elleve medstuderende der alle var Bibliotekarskolebachelorer. En helt ny verden.

[Amorya]

BSc in Psychology. Working towards my PhD now... it's a slow process.

(I think, at the end of it, I'll probably change fields completely and go work for a software company. Oh well.)

Amorya

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

My family doctor when I was little was a DO. Osteopaths are (in my experience) better at people skills than MDs-is that part of the training?

Yes and no.

No in the sense of specific training in people skills per se, but yes in the sense of philosophic approach to illness.

The four basic principles of Osteopathy are as follows:

1. The body is a unit.
2. The body possesses self-regulatory mechanisms which are self-healing in nature.
3. Structure and function are reciprocally interrelated.
4. Rational treatment is based on these principles.

From these principles, especially the first, one can see that illness (or dysfunction) in one part of the body, no matter how insignificant that part may seem, affects the body (and the mind) as a whole.

So our approach to illness is to treat the patient. Not just the illness. "Treating the patient" encompasses addressing the specific disease process as well as its effects on the rest of the body. That includes emotional aspects as well as physical.

It's not too hard to extrapolate from there to get to "better people skills."

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

The four basic principles of Osteopathy are as follows:

1. The body is a unit.
2. The body possesses self-regulatory mechanisms which are self-healing in nature.
3. Structure and function are reciprocally interrelated.
4. Rational treatment is based on these principles.

As an example to the "body as unit" principle: I had a patient who had diabetes. He did everything he was supposed to, watched his diet, took the medications given to him, exercised, and kept his weight down. His blood sugars were always under excellent control and he was very successful. Then he hurt his back. He continued to do everything he was doing before, including exercising. The only thing different was he was in constant pain. His diabetes was now uncontrolled. His sugars ran high no matter what he did, until his pain was controlled. Once his pain was well controlled, his diabetes came back under control. The seemingly unrelated problem of severe low back pain was affecting his diabetes.

[abe]

G.E.D.

And they MADE me take the exam in the Army.

Other than that I can say I did not go beyond the 10th Grade.

Sex. Drugs. Rebellion. Lack of parental guidance.

Unlike some of my youthful peers I did not go to prison nor get caught up with crime. I have not been consumed by substance addictions and didn't die along the way. So, I guess I'd have to say I'm lucky.

I've accomplished a few things of note but I think my natural talents and curiosity might have taken me farther if I'd been degreed. The importance of a diploma is that it serves as evidence of your education, discipline and perseverance and it opens doors for you. And opportunity is more than half of the keys to success. If you aren't one to create your own opportunities you'd better have some that are opened for you.

If I had it to do over again I'd have chosen different role models and values.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

Yes, that's exactly right.

Since I live in the United States, I went to an American College of Osteopathic Medicine, which are fully accredited medical schools and as such, our degree is equivalent to the MD degree and we enjoy all the same rights and privileges as MDs in the practice of medicine.

American Osteopathic Association

Most of the rest of the world tends to follow the European model of Osteopathic education, whereby people obtain master's degrees in Osteopathy and are limited in scope of practice to Osteopathic Manipulation treatment.

For a European to have (basically) the same status that we do in the U.S. they would first need to go to medical school and get their MD degree (or equivalent in their country) and then get a Master's degree in Osteopathy.

Fun fact: Michigan State University has both a DO school and a MD school. Until recently (due to changes in how medicine is taught in the United States), students in both colleges had their first two years' classes together, with only difference being that the DO students had additional courses in Osteopathy that the MD students did not. The third and fourth years of both types of medical school usually consist of doing rotations at hospitals/doctor's offices/etc.

How often does the subject of a certain Northeastern Ohio osteopath who gained some infamy in the 1950's and 60's get mentioned in your circle of friends or co-workers?

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by abe 

How often does the subject of a certain Northeastern Ohio osteopath who gained some infamy in the 1950's and 60's get mentioned in your circle of friends or co-workers?

I know who you're referring to, and actually it never comes up in discussion. No more than other infamous doctors with MD degrees get discussed by other MDs.

Which brings up a little rant: When an MD does something bad, the press reports them as simply "doctor." As in, "John Doe, a doctor, was convicted of killing his wife..." but when an osteopathic physician does something bad, the press makes is a point of saying they're "an osteopath" or "an osteopathic doctor." As in "John Public, an osteopathic doctor was convicted of killing his wife."

It is, in a way, a form of subtle discrimination against us, as though we're more prone to commit crimes than non-osteopathic physicians are.

Rant over.

[Mac User #001]

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster 

What's a DO, a deer?

A female deer.

Well, as for me, I'm still in high school. So I guess I'm the "or below".

[abe]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

I know who you're referring to, and actually it never comes up in discussion. No more than other infamous doctors with MD degrees get discussed by other MDs.

Which brings up a little rant: When an MD does something bad, the press reports them as simply "doctor." As in, "John Doe, a doctor, was convicted of killing his wife..." but when an osteopathic physician does something bad, the press makes is a point of saying they're "an osteopath" or "an osteopathic doctor." As in "John Public, an osteopathic doctor was convicted of killing his wife."

It is, in a way, a form of subtle discrimination against us, as though we're more prone to commit crimes than non-osteopathic physicians are.

Rant over.

FWIW, you have my personal regard and professional respect.

But if you ever treat me and mention the words "mandible claw," "The Mandibular Nerve Pinch," or "Mr Socko" I'm running for my life, okay?

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Mac User #001 

A female deer.

That’s a doe.

And I’m gutted that absolutely no one seems to have properly appreciated my extraordinarily amusing little pun about it. Gutted, I tell you!

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by abe 

FWIW, you have my personal regard and professional respect.

But if you ever treat me and mention the words "mandible claw," "The Mandibular Nerve Pinch," or "Mr Socko" I'm running for my life, okay?

Why? Mr Socko is a GREAT osteopathic physician! His manipulative technique is better than even A.T. Still's (founder of osteopathy) ever was. The Mandibular Nerve Pinch is quite an effective treatment you know.

Note to the humor-impaired (not you, abe): Notice the three smileys (). 'nuff said.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

And I’m gutted that absolutely no one seems to have properly appreciated my extraordinarily amusing little pun about it. Gutted, I tell you!

You said, "no, that's me," which I assume is the pun, but as I only speak four languages (and your native language is not one of them), I'm having a bit of trouble figuring that one out. Unless I'm missing something.

[brassplayersrock²]

four

[d4nth3m4n]

bs in the ag college.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

You said, "no, that's me," which I assume is the pun, but as I only speak four languages (and your native language is not one of them), I'm having a bit of trouble figuring that one out. Unless I'm missing something.

Knowing Irish would be more helpful than knowing Danish. Oisín means ‘fawn’ in Irish, diminutive of os, which is a doe.

I’m simply appalled that this is not standard knowledge on MacNN. Scandalous.

[Buckaroo]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

You were quick there. I thought I fixed it before anyone even noticed it. I updated like only 30 seconds after posting.

[chris v]

Barely graduated high school with a C average. I've done a bit of reading and unofficial apprenticing (I like to observe a craftsman, & then try my hand) at various things since then, but I'm all non-establishment educated.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by mindwaves 

Done.

Great, thanks

-t

[Shaddim]

two PhDs and a third to be completed soon.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

two PhDs and a third to be completed soon.

Why would you do that? You'd have to be getting close to your 40s and not ever had a real job to do that.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

Why would you do that? You'd have to be getting close to your 40s and not ever had a real job to do that.

He's a professor, they get paid to do additional studies.

-t

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

He's a professor, they get paid to do additional studies.

-t

I'd like to hear that from him, because I don't believe it. I'm a professor, and I know probably hundreds of professors at dozens of universities, and I've never heard of such a thing, ever. And you can't be in a PhD program unless you're full time in it. You don't just do a PhD program while you have a full-time job (unless it's a fake online degree, but I assume he's not talking about that).

[Oisín]

And you can't be in a PhD program unless you're full time in it. You don't just do a PhD program while you have a full-time job (unless it's a fake online degree, but I assume he's not talking about that).

Yes, you can. A friend of our family did her PhD in [some branch of] psychology while also teaching full-time as an external lector at Roskilde University. She cut back on her hours the semester she was doing the intensive writing part, but she was full-time for the rest of it.

Edit: Roskilde University didn’t actually pay her for the time she spent working on the PhD, but she did get a salary raise once she had it and they were the ones who encouraged her, so indirectly they did pay for it.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

I'd like to hear that from him, because I don't believe it. I'm a professor, and I know probably hundreds of professors at dozens of universities, and I've never heard of such a thing, ever.

I have a friend who teaches at a local community college, and she tells me they'll pay for her to get her Ph.D. So I guess it really depends on the place.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

I'd like to hear that from him, because I don't believe it. I'm a professor, and I know probably hundreds of professors at dozens of universities, and I've never heard of such a thing, ever. And you can't be in a PhD program unless you're full time in it. You don't just do a PhD program while you have a full-time job (unless it's a fake online degree, but I assume he's not talking about that).

I'm a professor, and I get paid to do additional studies.

Ok, daydream over.

I worked my ass off, and it came down to the wire, but my adviser agreed that I came up short of a double doctorate. So, I relaxed a bit and finished the requirements for my second degree a year later, it gave me time to polish up my thesis and broaden my body of work.

The last couple years I've been working on a degree in parapsychology via correspondence. However, it isn't from an accredited university in the U.S., it's just for fun. I'll likely never make a dime from this, but it's been a good experience and well worth the effort.

Also, I've been toying with the idea of working with the Koestler group at the Univ. of Edinburgh, but currently it's too inconvenient. Picking up and moving to Scotland for several years isn't a good idea, at this time.

[Doofy]

Currently attending the University of Doofy at Tax Haven. Majoring in Bullion Studies.

[brassplayersrock²]

what's the tuition like?

[Doofy]

Mostly very drunk.

[Doofy]

And sorry Brass, but you're going in the kill file until you get rid of that sig. Does my eyes in.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

I'd like to hear that from him, because I don't believe it. I'm a professor, and I know probably hundreds of professors at dozens of universities, and I've never heard of such a thing, ever.

Oh, yes, you can in the US.

I have seen accredited and recognized Universities in the US where the professors (like with a MDiv) were allowed to teach entry level post-graduate courses. However, in order to teach advanced courses, they needed their PhD or D.Min. More often than not, they were continuing to teach the entry level courses while attending the D.Min/PhD courses at the same University.

See more here: Master of Divinity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This might be more common in religious studies than other fields, I dunno.

I know that this probably sounds ridiculous for someone used to the German University system, but that's the way it is. The German's need to relax a bit and get off their high academic horse.

-t

[brassplayersrock²]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

And sorry Brass, but you're going in the kill file until you get rid of that sig. Does my eyes in.

i like it thank you!

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

Why would you do that? You'd have to be getting close to your 40s and not ever had a real job to do that.

Why does being a professor (= teacher + researcher) not count as a `real' job? As long as you're making an honest living … 

[Oisín]

The German's need to relax a bit and get off their high academic horse.

What, you mean like calling anyone who’s finished fifth grade ‘Doctor’?

[sknapp351]

I have a B.F.A. and an M.F.A. These two degrees have made me into the person I wanted to be, but I must say now that the loan payments have started I wish that I had wanted to be someone with a more lucrative career.
SAm

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Oh, yes, you can in the US.

I have seen accredited and recognized Universities in the US where the professors (like with a MDiv) were allowed to teach entry level post-graduate courses. However, in order to teach advanced courses, they needed their PhD or D.Min. More often than not, they were continuing to teach the entry level courses while attending the D.Min/PhD courses at the same University.

See more here: Master of Divinity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This might be more common in religious studies than other fields, I dunno.

I know that this probably sounds ridiculous for someone used to the German University system, but that's the way it is. The German's need to relax a bit and get off their high academic horse.

-t

Of course, that's perfectly normal, but that's just continuing on with grad school. He was talking about getting additional PhDs, which is absurd. Anyway, he answered the question, and it wasn't what you suggested.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Why does being a professor (= teacher + researcher) not count as a `real' job? As long as you're making an honest living … 

Sure, that is a real job, that's not what I was saying. Being in grad school is not a real job.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

Sure, that is a real job, that's not what I was saying. Being in grad school is not a real job.

That depends... If you're in grad school AND you're a TA AND you're acting as a research assistant... that's a lot of work.

Or you could be in a professional program that requires you to work in and around the profession. I haven't worked this hard in a long time.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

That depends... If you're in grad school AND you're a TA AND you're acting as a research assistant... that's a lot of work.

Or you could be in a professional program that requires you to work in and around the profession. I haven't worked this hard in a long time.

Of course it's a lot of work. It's just not a real job or career.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

Of course it's a lot of work. It's just not a real job or career.

What makes some jobs real and some jobs not?