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Anyone here ever own a rental/flip a house?
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sdilley14
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Dec 11, 2012, 08:13 AM
 
Like the title says, I am wondering if anyone here has ever owned a rental (house, duplex, apartment building, etc.) or bought a house and "flipped" it. I have never owned a home myself, but I am inetersted in beginning to acquire real estate and I'm not sure which avenue is best for me as a beginner.

I am thinking that the most logical approach might be to buy my own house, live in it for a year +, do some upgrades and put some sweat equity into it, then try selling it a year + down the line. This way I have the experience of going through the home buying process and I get the experience of actually owning a home myself and what it takes to keep it up and improve it. Ideally if I went this route I would likely do it with a (business) partner...someone who would live there with me, split the costs, and split the profit after we sell it (there would be contracts and legal agreements involved...not two buddies just shaking hands and trying to jump in blindly). I am a single guy and I don't think this is something I could handle on my own...at least not right away. I am much more business/finance/tech savvy, as opposed to a couple partners I have in mind who are more "crafty" and better with building and hands-on type projects.

Has anyone here done this? Either flipped a home (by yourself or with partners) or owned rental properties? What were you experiences like? Any advice you would have for someone getting started?
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subego
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Dec 11, 2012, 08:22 AM
 
Don't make your actual residence an investment.
     
nonhuman
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Dec 11, 2012, 08:22 AM
 
If you plan is to live in the house, you should do so for more than a year. If you lived in a house for two (not necessarily consecutive) years of the five years leading up to the sale it qualifies as a primary residence when you sell which gives you more favorable tax conditions on any profits you make.

I currently own a rental property in Boston, and am in the process of essentially 'flipping' my current home in DC (we've lived here for three years, but are now investing in renovations with the specific goal of selling it this spring).

If you do it right, real estate investment can be a great way to make money. However it can also be pretty high risk. If you're going to do it you should absolutely take the time to do more research than you think is necessary. Get to know the neighborhood and market where you're looking to buy, make sure you know what sorts of things are selling, and how the market is pricing things so that you'll be able to successfully identify a property that is underpriced and has the potential to really be turned around for a big return.
     
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Dec 11, 2012, 08:53 AM
 
I've done two in the past few years and made decent money doing it - enough to pay off the student debt etc. Unless it's all you do, you'll never make more than a nice salary bonus, but it's also nice to see your ideas come together and then have people love it and congratulate you and pay for your hard work! Currently undergoing extensive renos on the existing house - it will certainly be worth a lot more once we're done with it, but this one is quite nice and we'd like to stay here for at least a little while, I think. We haven't done this in any way as a money-making enterprise - it just so happened that we're easily bored and once we finished a project, found another to work on.

It's certainly very frustrating at times, and you've got to have an extremely good knack for figuring out who your target buyers market will be, and what those people "want" when they're buying a house. Other than timing your market (i.e. not buying in Florida in 2007, yadda yadda), that's the most important part I think - I see too many people doing too many things that just won't be a value-added feature when it comes time to sell. Take a look at the property, realize that there's an absolutely maximum price given the property, the market, and the location, and then figure out what you would need to do to get to that price. From there you can determine whether it's worth your time.

As for buying: we've discovered we have an innate knack for seeing "spaces", I guess - the ideal configuration of a house or a room. The key we've utilized is identifying houses that were poorly outfitted - bad furniture, bad paint, just badly shown. Those are houses where you could come in, do inexpensive renos (furniture/paint/cosmetic work), and be able to make a profit because the house looks 100% better. Then out of those identify the "next level" of flipping - new room configurations, updated bath or kitchen, or perhaps even new baths etc. Those require more investment, but of course the hope is that you can place the house in a higher selling bracket.

Our currently house we're almost completely re-doing a 3-bed, 1-den, 1-bathroom 100-year-old house, with little closet space. (Only the kitchen will not be touched, as it was re-done a few years back.) We just completed the main floor (new tile, re-finished hardwood, new bathroom, new closet, new fixtures, new paint, new furniture). Once we're done it will be a 3-bed 3-bathroom affair with a monster master walk-in closet, marrying the classic features of the house with modern touches. Our hope is that will appeal to empty-nest professionals who want to move back into old downtown near work and restaurants and entertainment. We hope to sell the place for at least $100,000 more than we paid for it, and it will absolutely be worth that based on the market, but we'll have sunk close to half that into the place - again, there's not huge money to be made unless you're very dedicated or very lucky with the market. It's a nice side project.
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ShortcutToMoncton
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Dec 11, 2012, 08:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Don't make your actual residence an investment.
Errrr.....don't know how it works down there, but up here it's the only good way to avoid capital gains tax on your sale....?
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sdilley14  (op)
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Dec 11, 2012, 09:11 AM
 
Wow...all great feedback, exactly the type of discussion I was hoping to engage in.

For me this is definitely something I would like to do as a supplement to my normal working income. Sure, maybe some day it would be great to do this full time...but I'm smart enough to know that it isn't that easy, especially when you're first starting out. Ideally I would like to continue working my regular 40 hour/week job and spend a couple hours a night and a few hours each day on the weekend completing renovations. I'm not trying to get rich or get rich quick...but adding another $10k-$20k-$30k/yr to my regular income would be great.

Market research and analysis is definitely one step I will be looking at thoroughly. For me, the idea is to try and buy the cheapest house in the nicest neighborhood, figure out what the "ceiling" price is in that neighborhood, figure out a budget for renovations, a projected time line, and decide if it is going to be a smart investment. I will also need to figure out a profit % threshold that will make it a worth while project (ex. I buy the house for $100k, put $20k into it, I need to sell it for "X" for this to be worth while).

I guess the idea of buying a house and living in it while I renovate it was to avoid having to pay two mortgages at once. Also, I feel it could be easier for me to work on things right in my own residence as opposed to traveling across town to work.
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sdilley14  (op)
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Dec 11, 2012, 09:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Errrr.....don't know how it works down there, but up here it's the only good way to avoid capital gains tax on your sale....?
Do you have to live there for a certain period of time to avoid the capital gains tax?
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subego
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Dec 11, 2012, 09:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Errrr.....don't know how it works down there, but up here it's the only good way to avoid capital gains tax on your sale....?
What I'm talking about works everywhere.

A similar admonition would be "your home is shelter for you, not your money".
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Dec 11, 2012, 09:37 AM
 
There's no set rule. It's a principal residence if you live there. There's a rather per-case analysis for when a sale would be considered a taxable capital gain: intention of the purchaser, length of time, frequency of sales, etc. Basically, the rules are set up to catch people who try to turn this sort of activity into a profit-generating business, and not those who for one reason or another just happened to move fairly quickly (we unexpectedly moved cross-country for example).

Of course if you buy a second house and flip it, or if you rent it out as an income property, you're going to be paying taxes on a healthy chunk of your profits - about 25% for capital gains up here (50% of 50%).
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ShortcutToMoncton
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Dec 11, 2012, 09:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Errrr.....don't know how it works down there, but up here it's the only good way to avoid capital gains tax on your sale....?
What I'm talking about works everywhere.

A similar admonition would be "your home is shelter for you, not your money".
I don't see why it cannot be both...
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Dec 11, 2012, 09:46 AM
 
Don't do the work yourself unless you can actually do the work.

In August of 2010 my house was flooded by a burst cold water hose to my washing machine. They had to remove all the flooring, the drywall and baseboard to about 12 inches above the floor, the tile hallways and carpet too. The water ruined my shower stall in the master BR. The kitchen and 1 bathroom was out of commission as they had to remove the counter to remove all the cabinets. My best friend was out of work and he acted as project manager since he owned 3 rentals and had done this stuff before. Insurance paid for the basic repairs, and my dad gave some of the insurance money from when my mom died. 3 months and 55K later.... I was back in

I can do drywall and painting etc. I don't do electrical. I cleanly cut the drywall at 24 1/2 inches above the floor so the drywall hangers could easily replace the lower part of my walls. The AC unit was old and scheduled for replacment, so I got a new Heat pump system. We upgraded the flooring to a floating bamboo type, and better carpet elsewhere. New AC outlets. New light fixtures in both bathrooms and new sinks and a correctly installed shower stall. I had new 40 year shingles installed on the roof, and ran the CAT5 to wall panels.

Fade out......fade in.............

This September my kitchen drain became hopelessly clogged. it drained under my cement slab and squirted back up from the insulation around the hot water supply, only to soak into the padding under the wood floor. I called the insurance co and plumbers. The line was blocked. They had to remove the kitchen cabinets, flooring and break up the slab to replace the plugged drain pipe. WAIT!!! It was so blocked they had to remove a lot of it, plug up the end and go from the middle of the kitchen, down the hallway and into the master bedroom and down 4 1/2 feet to rejoin with the main sewer line. THEN replace the pipe, get it inspected, and then fill in the trench. New flooring again. Reseat the cabinets, reinstall the counter, reconnect the sink and dishwasher. fix and patch the drywall and paint.

Sometimes, owning a house isn't so great.
     
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Dec 11, 2012, 09:56 AM
 
As long as the foundation is good and the roof is legit, I'd say game on. The rest of it is just easy stuff.
     
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Dec 11, 2012, 09:57 AM
 
BTW, I rent my warehouse for $325 a month. HA.

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Dec 11, 2012, 10:25 AM
 
You live in a warehouse? With roommates? I lived in a 1Br for a year, that we pretended was a 2Br (living room -> bedroom, 2 entrances luckily), and I paid $350 including utils. It was a sweet bargain, but you get what you pay for. I would have stayed longer but the other person got married off and left, and I didn't want to roll the dice on new stranger. Edit: I decided to buy my first property instead of staying there. By the end, my mortgage was only $644/mo for a legit 2Br, which is an even better bargain if you conveniently ignore all the extra principal I paid to get it there, and the fact it was an ARM (I still had 3 years left of the fixed period when I moved out though), and the HOA dues and property taxes.

Eh, on topic: I did several great upgrades to that place, but still only managed to about break even (up 20k which was exactly what the transaction costs were anyway). Really the only thing I gained from the upgrades was my own personal enjoyment of them while living there. Keep this in mind, you might not break even, so it pays to do things you'll actually benefit from in a non-monetary way too, like teaching yourself a new skill by doing it.
     
subego
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Dec 11, 2012, 11:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
I don't see why it cannot be both...
The issue isn't whether you can, it's the wisdom of said decision.

The main reason is when you move is based on the market rather than wanting to move.
     
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Dec 11, 2012, 11:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
I don't see why it cannot be both...
The issue isn't whether you can, it's the wisdom of said decision.

The main reason is when you move is based on the market rather than wanting to move.
Rental
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Dec 11, 2012, 11:36 AM
 
Yep, exactly. Renting is always an option if selling is not. Capital gains would then have to be paid, but only for a certain portion, and there are deductions associated with rental income as well.
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sdilley14  (op)
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Dec 11, 2012, 02:02 PM
 
That's something I've thought about too...buying a home and doing some modest upgrades (new paint, carpet, light fixtures, kitchen cabinets, bathroom vanity...whatever) and renting it out. The idea of having a house in my name and a mortgage being paid by someone else is pretty enticing. But I don't know how well equipped I would be as a landlord. That is something I would have to do more research on and speak with others I know that have done it. I think it would almost come down to being able to sell the house at a profit...if I couldn't get what I feel is a % of profit on the house to make it worth unloading, I would probably rent it, at least for a few years to get a little bit of equity back into it.
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subego
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Dec 11, 2012, 02:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
Rental
Wrong direction.

If the right opportunity comes by to sell, you sell. If you don't, you're not managing your investment properly. If you let the fact you live there alter your selling price, you're not managing your investment properly either.
     
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Dec 11, 2012, 02:26 PM
 
I......really don't get what you're driving at. That makes sense - if the opportunity comes to sell, you sell. Presumably, that's why the person has made this particular investment in their residence, no?
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subego
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Dec 12, 2012, 04:46 AM
 
If being thrown out of your own home to catch a buying opportunity floats your boat, have at it.
     
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Dec 12, 2012, 05:29 AM
 
I don't even OWN a tv
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Dec 12, 2012, 05:58 AM
 
nomad?
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subego
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Dec 12, 2012, 06:00 AM
 
Knows TV sucks?
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Dec 12, 2012, 07:09 AM
 
Really? A device for showing moving pictures sucks? gtfo
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subego
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Dec 12, 2012, 07:18 AM
 
A device for showing moving pictures is a monitor. TVs have a tuner to serve you up your shit Twinkie.
     
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Dec 12, 2012, 07:48 AM
 
I was just trying to out-debbie-downer you. Sorry. Still friends?
     
subego
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Dec 12, 2012, 07:54 AM
 
Me?
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Dec 12, 2012, 09:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
If being thrown out of your own home to catch a buying opportunity floats your boat, have at it.
Errrrrr....what? If it's a "buying opportunity" presumably one is selling their investment at some sort of profit and can or has therefore taken advantage of said profit to arrange somewhere else to go, perhaps?

Or are you suggesting doing this is a bad idea because if you need to sell your house to realize on your investment in said house, you'll be living in the street and therefore the investment wasn't worth it?

Originally Posted by subego View Post
A device for showing moving pictures is a monitor. TVs have a tuner to serve you up your shit Twinkie.
A "tuner"? My TV does nothing more than show the picture of whatever device that's plugged into it - which does not currently include a cable box. If nothing was plugged into it, I would get the decidedly shit sandwich of a blank screen. At no point in its existence in my house has my TV ever conveyed information that would be described as "television channels"; yet, Panasonic still manages to call it a TV. Which is the same thing as Uncle Skeleton mentioned he did not own....

Can I infer that someone has actually shit in your Twinkies lately? Are you starting to take over a slightly different Besson role of semantically/obliquely disagreeing with everything, or something?
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subego
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Dec 12, 2012, 10:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Errrrrr....what? If it's a "buying opportunity" presumably one is selling their investment at some sort of profit and can or has therefore taken advantage of said profit to arrange somewhere else to go, perhaps?
Or are you suggesting doing this is a bad idea because if you need to sell your house to realize on your investment in said house, you'll be living in the street and therefore the investment wasn't worth it?
A "tuner"? My TV does nothing more than show the picture of whatever device that's plugged into it - which does not currently include a cable box. If nothing was plugged into it, I would get the decidedly shit sandwich of a blank screen. At no point in its existence in my house has my TV ever conveyed information that would be described as "television channels"; yet, Panasonic still manages to call it a TV. Which is the same thing as Uncle Skeleton mentioned he did not own....
Can I infer that someone has actually shit in your Twinkies lately? Are you starting to take over a slightly different Besson role of semantically/obliquely disagreeing with everything, or something?
Now you're just being obtuse.

Do you like moving or something? Is it not a huge pain in the ass for you? It is for most people. The exceptions are those whose possessions fit in a suitcase, and those too wealthy to be asking for real estate tips on a computer help forum.

Likewise, I bag on TV, because it's a shit Twinkie, and you come back with "I don't watch TV on my TV!"

Q.E. ****ing D.

And while we're at it, tell us what model of TV you have. How much you wanna bet it has a tuner?


Direct enough for you?
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Dec 12, 2012, 11:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Errrrrr....what? If it's a "buying opportunity" presumably one is selling their investment at some sort of profit and can or has therefore taken advantage of said profit to arrange somewhere else to go, perhaps?
Or are you suggesting doing this is a bad idea because if you need to sell your house to realize on your investment in said house, you'll be living in the street and therefore the investment wasn't worth it?
A "tuner"? My TV does nothing more than show the picture of whatever device that's plugged into it - which does not currently include a cable box. If nothing was plugged into it, I would get the decidedly shit sandwich of a blank screen. At no point in its existence in my house has my TV ever conveyed information that would be described as "television channels"; yet, Panasonic still manages to call it a TV. Which is the same thing as Uncle Skeleton mentioned he did not own....
Can I infer that someone has actually shit in your Twinkies lately? Are you starting to take over a slightly different Besson role of semantically/obliquely disagreeing with everything, or something?
Now you're just being obtuse.

Do you like moving or something? Is it not a huge pain in the ass for you? It is for most people. The exceptions are those whose possessions fit in a suitcase, and those too wealthy to be asking for real estate tips on a computer help forum.
I've moved 4 times in the last 3 years. So? I don't like it, but it's not the worst thing in the world that's ever happened to me. The process only lasts a week or so, and it also gives you the opportunity to purge the useless shit that's accumulated. A great excuse to clean out the closet.

Or are you suggesting the inconvenience of spending a few days moving to a bigger, nicer house is not worth the $35,000 in 18 months made on the house we just sold? Perhaps that's merely pocket change to you, not worth the trouble of carrying boxes for a few days? In which case, why the **** are you even yapping in a thread about someone trying to make an extra 10 or 30 grand by flipping a house?

Likewise, I bag on TV, because it's a shit Twinkie, and you come back with "I don't watch TV on my TV!"

Q.E. ****ing D.
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton
I don't even OWN a tv
Originally Posted by shortcuttomoncton
nomad?
Originally Posted by subego
Knows TV sucks?
What part of "own a TV" is not resonating with your obtuse mind? Or do you simply refuse to acknowledge any distinction between the word "TV" when used to descibe something one might own, or something one might watch on one's TV?

And while we're at it, tell us what model of TV you have. How much you wanna bet it has a tuner?


Direct enough for you?
Please direct me to the place where I said that my TV does not have a tuner. I'll wait.

You sir are having some serious comprehension/obtuseness problems lately. I recommend laying off the internet for a while, because you're starting to become decidedly besson-like.
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Dec 12, 2012, 11:14 AM
 
dp'd subego
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subego
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Dec 12, 2012, 11:30 AM
 
In your dreams.

Did you choose when to move?

What part of "knows TV sucks" doesn't resonate with you? You think that's a statement about a device?

As for the tuner, you said, and I quote: At no point in its existence in my house has my TV ever conveyed information that would be described as "television channels"; yet, Panasonic still manages to call it a TV.

PANASONIC MANAGES TO CALL IT A TV BECAUSE IT HAS A ****ING TUNER IN IT.
     
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Dec 12, 2012, 11:32 AM
 
I kinda of miss the spammers.
     
subego
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Dec 12, 2012, 11:36 AM
 
Panasonic's paying for this thread.
     
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Dec 12, 2012, 11:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
In your dreams.

Did you choose when to move?

What part of "knows TV sucks" doesn't resonate with you? You think that's a statement about a device?

As for the tuner, you said, and I quote: At no point in its existence in my house has my TV ever conveyed information that would be described as "television channels"; yet, Panasonic still manages to call it a TV.

PANASONIC MANAGES TO CALL IT A TV BECAUSE IT HAS A ****ING TUNER IN IT.
AND YET IT DOESN'T ACTUALLY SHOW "TV", AS IN TELEVISION STATIONS. WHICH IS WHAT YOU SPECIFICALLY MEANT WHEN YOU WHEN SAID "TV SUCKS". EVEN THOUGH UNCLE SKELETON COULD OWN A TV AND WATCH THINGS LIKE MOVIES ON SAID TV BUT STILL THINK THAT "TV SUCKS" AND IN FACT NOT EVEN HAVE TV. OR IN ANOTHER WORDS, WHETHER OR NOT ONE OWNS A TV DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN THEY THINK "TV SUCKS" OR "TV IS GREAT".....UNLESS THEY TALK LIKE A CAVE MAN.
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subego
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Dec 12, 2012, 11:56 AM
 
Uncle Skeleton doesn't own a computer?
     
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Dec 12, 2012, 12:16 PM
 
I still post primarily by telegraph. Someone in India transcribes for me so it can be transmitted to you delightful fellas.
     
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Dec 12, 2012, 12:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Do you like moving or something? Is it not a huge pain in the ass for you?
This doesn't really track. "Do you like holding down a job? Isn't it a huge pain in the ass?" Yes, of course it is, but you [i]choose[i] to do it in exchange for money. Same with home real estate, you're not forced to move, you choose to if they pay you enough (see zillow's "make me move" price; it's not force, it's incentive. Big difference). It sure beats moving to chase down a job if you rent, because then you have just as much hassle but they don't actually pay you to do it. Even worse is having your rental disappear (eg landlord sells), and then you have to move for no pay-out and no potentially better job, it's just the hassle for no benefit.

Of course, there are also advantages to moving, like getting to choose a new place with different problems than the last place (variety is the spice of life), or the opportunity to correct the mistakes you made when you picked your previous place. Also Rent.com will pay you $100 referral for signing a lease (product placement!!!).
     
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Dec 12, 2012, 01:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
I still post primarily by telegraph. Someone in India transcribes for me so it can be transmitted to you delightful fellas.
An American should be doing that job.
     
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Dec 12, 2012, 01:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
This doesn't really track. "Do you like holding down a job? Isn't it a huge pain in the ass?" Yes, of course it is, but you [i]choose[i] to do it in exchange for money. Same with home real estate, you're not forced to move, you choose to if they pay you enough (see zillow's "make me move" price; it's not force, it's incentive. Big difference). It sure beats moving to chase down a job if you rent, because then you have just as much hassle but they don't actually pay you to do it. Even worse is having your rental disappear (eg landlord sells), and then you have to move for no pay-out and no potentially better job, it's just the hassle for no benefit.
Of course, there are also advantages to moving, like getting to choose a new place with different problems than the last place (variety is the spice of life), or the opportunity to correct the mistakes you made when you picked your previous place. Also Rent.com will pay you $100 referral for signing a lease (product placement!!!).
I mentioned this upthread. If the price needs to be inflated for you to move out, you're not treating it like an investment, you're treating it like your home.

If you're going to treat it like your home, don't delude yourself into thinking it's an investment.
     
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Dec 12, 2012, 02:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I mentioned this upthread. If the price needs to be inflated for you to move out, you're not treating it like an investment, you're treating it like your home.

If you're going to treat it like your home, don't delude yourself into thinking it's an investment.
Is a job an investment? Or an employable skill? What about when you have to move in order to get a good job? I would say the latter (lattest?) is the most investment-like, but also the most akin to moving for making a buck on your house.

Also, people move all the time, voluntarily and otherwise. I think you're exaggerating the sanctity of not having to move.

Finally, to most laymen, "investment" means buy-and-hold, not day trading. Because most people can't do any better by buying and selling than by simply holding. The alternative in this context to "investment" would be "gamble." If "investment" already means holding it indefinitely, then there is no conflict with it being your home. I would say that the number of people who actually gain by market timing or wheeling and dealing (as opposed to buy-and-hold) is the severe minority, which makes your "never do this" advice a little off-target.

IMO.


Originally Posted by subego View Post
An American should be doing that job.
I'm covered, they have American Indians doing it.
     
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Dec 12, 2012, 02:36 PM
 
Is he buying and holding, or is he flipping? Flipping isn't day-trading, but I don't think it's buy and hold either.


Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
I'm covered, they have American Indians doing it.
Racist.
     
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Dec 12, 2012, 04:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I mentioned this upthread. If the price needs to be inflated for you to move out, you're not treating it like an investment, you're treating it like your home.

If you're going to treat it like your home, don't delude yourself into thinking it's an investment.
You seem to be entirely missing the point that the price is "inflated" only because the value of the home is inflated because of the work that's been put into it.
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
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Dec 12, 2012, 04:18 PM
 
Look, this is a stupid ****ing argument you're making anyway and it's entirely derailing this thread.
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Dec 12, 2012, 06:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Is he buying and holding, or is he flipping? Flipping isn't day-trading, but I don't think it's buy and hold either.
But most people who buy a house do use it as an investment, and your advice was no one should do this (despite the fact that most people do this).

By buy and hold I was referring to the rental, which I notice now he's not too keen on to start with. Usually rentals are more about income, and appreciation is just a bonus.

I didn't think it was necessary for you to "warn" someone who brought up flipping that they might have to move out at the end. That's kind of the whole concept, it's like warning a new Mac user that they'll spend some time sitting in front of a screen. It's one of the only aspects of the process that they'll already be familiar with.

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
I'm covered, they have American Indians doing it.
Racist.
Oops sorry, "Indian Americans"
     
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Dec 12, 2012, 07:29 PM
 
It was a stupid ****ing argument all-round in my opinion, bluntly speaking. Yes, there's lots of reasons not to use your own house purely as an investment property; America just had an economic meltdown somewhat based on that entire concept. On the other hand, someone who's looking to "flip the house" to make some money should be entirely aware of this risk and is aware that they are subject to external market forces, sheer bad luck, etc. - and is even more acutely aware that they will, you know, have to move out when they sell the house they are renovating in order to sell. Advising someone who's decided they want to try to flip a house not to do so if it will be their own residence because "moving is a huge pain in the ass" is a moronic statement, period, full stop. Considering subego didn't even bother to make the entirely valid point of factoring moving costs into the profit margin, I would say it was the most uselessly contrarian stance I've read lately.

I'll say it again: entirely like arguing semantics with besson - round and round in a circle while entirely avoiding the issue at hand.
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Dec 13, 2012, 05:12 AM
 
Actually one aspect of all this that's not so obvious: he would already be primed to move, if he's doing a long-term reno. You have to move everything out of one room, live like that for a few weeks, then move it back and out of a different room, etc etc. I think moving would be an upgrade after living like that
     
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Dec 13, 2012, 05:13 AM
 
sdilley: sorry about contributing to the derail of your thread. If you want us to f off so you can get back on track, please say so.
     
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Dec 13, 2012, 06:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
It was a stupid ****ing argument all-round in my opinion, bluntly speaking. Yes, there's lots of reasons not to use your own house purely as an investment property; America just had an economic meltdown somewhat based on that entire concept. On the other hand, someone who's looking to "flip the house" to make some money should be entirely aware of this risk and is aware that they are subject to external market forces, sheer bad luck, etc. - and is even more acutely aware that they will, you know, have to move out when they sell the house they are renovating in order to sell. Advising someone who's decided they want to try to flip a house not to do so if it will be their own residence because "moving is a huge pain in the ass" is a moronic statement, period, full stop. Considering subego didn't even bother to make the entirely valid point of factoring moving costs into the profit margin, I would say it was the most uselessly contrarian stance I've read lately.
I'll say it again: entirely like arguing semantics with besson - round and round in a circle while entirely avoiding the issue at hand.
This is because you've spent all your time telling me what you think I'm saying is ****ing stupid rather than actually trying to understand what I'm saying.

My argument is you don't want to lose control.

If it's house first, investment second, you decide when to move. If it's investment first, house second, the market decides when you move.

Part of letting the market decide is having the house on the market, always. That means you never stop having buyers traipse through. It also means decorating impersonally.

If you've thought about these things, and probably other things I haven't even thought of, yet it still appeals, then as I said: have at it. For a lot of people, that sort of shit wouldn't be worth the income, and may not be the things they've thought through.


To put it another way: if you live in your own investment property, you're basically renting from yourself, and your landlord's an asshole.
     
 
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