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Ron Paul solves the Piracy problem
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Dork.
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Apr 16, 2009, 01:09 PM
 
the high-seas piracy problem, that is.

Ron Paul's plan to fend off pirates

Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) and a growing number of national security experts are calling on Congress to consider using letters of marque and reprisal, a power written into the Constitution that allows the United States to hire private citizens to keep international waters safe.
Taking the traditional duties of the military and outsourcing them to private contractors.....

What can possibly go wrong?

“If we have 100 American wanna-be Rambos patrolling the seas, it’s probably a good way of getting the job done,” said Competitive Enterprise Institute senior fellow and security expert Eli Lehrer.
     
BLAZE_MkIV
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Apr 16, 2009, 01:23 PM
 
Just put 4 marines on board the ships as they travel through that region. Repelling boarders is one of their primary tasks. (My brother in law, the ex-marine, agreed with me.)
     
turtle777
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Apr 16, 2009, 01:30 PM
 
I like the idea of convoys better.

Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
This seems to be the best (i.e. cheapest and most effective) solution: convoys

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123966729406515295.html

Originally Posted by PETER D. ZIMMERMAN / WSJ
Thirty thousand ships a year, roughly 100 a day, 50 in each direction, transit the waters off the coast of Somalia. One convoy in each direction, each day, alternating between fast ships and slower ones, and each accompanied by four or five escort vessels, would do the job. There would then be only two targets a day in each area of coast for the pirates to find, instead of 100. When marauders approach a convoy, they could be warned off by the escorts or destroyed if they attack.
Safer, cheaper, less potential for abuse or getting out of control.

-t
     
Doofy
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Apr 16, 2009, 01:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by BLAZE_MkIV View Post
Just put 4 marines on board the ships as they travel through that region. Repelling boarders is one of their primary tasks. (My brother in law, the ex-marine, agreed with me.)
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
I like the idea of convoys better.
You guys aren't bearing in mind the rest of the piracy that goes on world-wide.
And you can't put 4 marines on pleasure yachts.

Allow civvies to wield full-auto weapons when on high seas. My ex-maid's fiancé (who consults on the security for a number of large yachts) agrees with me.
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SpaceMonkey
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Apr 16, 2009, 02:14 PM
 
Sharks with frickin' laser beams on their heads.

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turtle777
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Apr 16, 2009, 02:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
You guys aren't bearing in mind the rest of the piracy that goes on world-wide.
Piracy is only a problem in strategic waterways that could only be avoided at great cost.

Nobody cares about pirates in remote locations, like Venezuela. You can avoid those areas and go on with your life.

-t
     
Doofy
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Apr 16, 2009, 03:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Nobody cares about pirates in remote locations, like Venezuela.
So, nobody cares about getting their shipping through the Panama Canal?

Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
You can avoid those areas and go on with your life.
You're not getting it. Piracy pops up anywhere.
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That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Taliesin
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Apr 16, 2009, 03:34 PM
 
Piracy is a problem of law. Law is only binding when bound to a territory controlled by a political entity, or in the case of international waters bound by international agreements. In the case of Somalia there is no government stable enough to uphold any law, the result is not only that different militias try to get in control of power but that other countries, not only neighbouring ones instrumentalise the chaos in Somalia for their own ends.

One of the most deplorable abuse is done by some european and asian countries that profit from the situation in Somalia by massfishing in Somalia's waters and getting rid of their toxic, including nuclear waste, there.

The coastal somalia communities that were paying a heavy price because of it, much less fish to live from and diseases derived from the waste, organized a sea-militia that tried to deter these european and asian abusers through threats and hostage-taking.

After a while though this defense-mechanism developed its own life and (d)evolved into the current piracy-problem, where militants are in it just for the money, while the coastal communities still back the pirates because of the already mentioned behaviour of european and asian countries.

To cure the problem instead of the symptoms, there is much more needed than the use of lethal force by western warships:

1. To help in establishing a central functioning government and economy in Somalia.
2. To help in protecting the fishing-sources and prevent the dumping of toxic waste in somali waters from european and asian countries.
3. To offer free medical service and just damage-paying to the coastal communities.
4. To stop paying ransom no matter what happens.

Taliesin
     
Doofy
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Apr 16, 2009, 03:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Taliesin View Post
Piracy is a problem of law. Law is only binding when bound to a territory controlled by a political entity, or in the case of international waters bound by international agreements.
It's legal to shoot (to kill) pirates on sight in international waters. The only problem is getting the boat into port with guns on it.

Originally Posted by Taliesin View Post
4. To stop paying ransom no matter what happens.
A large number of pirates don't ask for ransoms - they steal anything they can find on the vessel.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
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RAILhead
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Apr 16, 2009, 03:41 PM
 
Napalm.

The end.
"Everything's so clear to me now: I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.
That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
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Dork.  (op)
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Apr 16, 2009, 03:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
It's legal to shoot (to kill) pirates on sight in international waters. The only problem is getting the boat into port with guns on it.
That's the genius with the good Doctor's plan. If a privateer has a letter from the U.S. verifying that they are operating with the blessing of the US Congress, wouldn't they have more latitude to bring their guns into most ports?
     
Doofy
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Apr 16, 2009, 03:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dork. View Post
That's the genius with the good Doctor's plan. If a privateer has a letter from the U.S. verifying that they are operating with the blessing of the US Congress, wouldn't they have more latitude to bring their guns into most ports?
Hmmm. Perhaps. I wouldn't like to try getting into a French port with said letter though.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Taliesin
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Apr 16, 2009, 04:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
It's legal to shoot (to kill) pirates on sight in international waters. The only problem is getting the boat into port with guns on it.
True, backed by international agreements, but the current talked about problem is not only happening in international waters but in somali ones, and that's a loop-hole not covered by international agreements.


Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
A large number of pirates don't ask for ransoms - they steal anything they can find on the vessel.
Right, but in somalia the piracy is fuelled by ransom-payings, without them the piracy might not completely vanish but it would get reduced considerably espescially if the other points, government, economy, damage-payings and protection of somali fishing-sources and ecology get tackled on.

Taliesin
     
ThinkInsane
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Apr 16, 2009, 05:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by BLAZE_MkIV View Post
(My brother in law, the ex-marine, agreed with me.)
Former Marine, not ex-Marine. You're brother-in-law would not be pleased at being referred to in such a manner.
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Captain Obvious
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Apr 16, 2009, 06:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Taliesin View Post
. In the case of Somalia there is no government stable enough to uphold any law

To cure the problem instead of the symptoms, there is much more needed than the use of lethal force by western warships:

1. To help in establishing a central functioning government and economy in Somalia.
2. To help in protecting the fishing-sources and prevent the dumping of toxic waste in somali waters from european and asian countries.
3. To offer free medical service and just damage-paying to the coastal communities.
Then the various EU member nations should get on that.
Oddly enough they all have the forces and collective funds to address these sort of issues in Somalia but they chose not to.

I am perfectly happy with the US sending predators to bomb the hell out of these pirate groups camped out along the coast but if the EU wants to put troops on the ground to police and foster a stable government then all the better and cheaper for us. And while they are at it take care of the problems in Darfur.

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turtle777
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Apr 16, 2009, 07:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
So, nobody cares about getting their shipping through the Panama Canal?
So, if that's such a widespread problem, I'm sure you got tons of links.

Besides, staying clear of Venezuelan coast when going through Panama is not really that hard. The gulf of Aden, well, that's a different matter.

-t
     
Doofy
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Apr 16, 2009, 07:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
So, if that's such a widespread problem, I'm sure you got tons of links.
It's not a widespread problem yet - IIRC, nobody has been killed so far so it's not making mainstream news. But watch this space.

Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Besides, staying clear of Venezuelan coast when going through Panama is not really that hard.
When I say "Venezuelan coast", I actually mean all that area above Columbia and Venezuela, running a couple of hundred miles north.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
BLAZE_MkIV
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Apr 16, 2009, 08:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by ThinkInsane View Post
Former Marine, not ex-Marine. You're brother-in-law would not be pleased at being referred to in such a manner.
He knows I know he's still all hoo-ra marine guy and any oversensitivity on his part over nuances in terminology won't affect my opinion of his masculinity.
     
Big Mac
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Apr 16, 2009, 08:31 PM
 
According to what I've read on the subject, Letters of Marque and Reprisal were taken out of use by international treaty.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
Dork.  (op)
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Apr 16, 2009, 09:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
According to what I've read on the subject, Letters of Marque and Reprisal were taken out of use by international treaty.
But the US has never directly participated in any of those treaties.

The US issued a Letter of Marque to the Goodyear Blimp during WWII to hunt German submarines.
     
ebuddy
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Apr 16, 2009, 10:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Sharks with frickin' laser beams on their heads.
Okay, now that's just friggin' funny.
ebuddy
     
Hugi
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Apr 17, 2009, 07:58 AM
 
The pirate problem in Somalia will have lasting effects in the fields of religion and athmospheric science.

     
   
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