[macaddict0001]

My dad has not driven a manual transmission in twenty years but he just bought a car with a manual, how do I explain how to shift to him, and most importantly how to slow down and stop.(he stalled the engine a few times from braking already).

Also does anyone know what speeds/rpms you should shift up/down on a volvo 2005 s40 with the 2.4 litre engine? It idles at 800 and redlines at 6500.

[suvsr4terrorists]

hahhahahahahhahahahahahahahha

[suvsr4terrorists]

AhAHahhaahhAHaHhahAhaHahHhAhHHAHhaHAhahAHhA

So wait.... let me read it again. Your dad....bought a BRAND NEW CAR..... manual... and he can't remember how to drive it.

No offense, but your dad is either full of **** or senile. My guess is that he's never driven a manual.

[suvsr4terrorists]

PS: HahAHahHAhahhahAhHAHhAhahahHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Randman]

I agree with Rob.

[Gankdawg]

I agree with Randman.

[mojo2]

I bought a manual transmission car off the showroom floor one Friday afternoon and had a friend drive it home for me because I was shiftless. By the following Monday morning I set off across country in that car, having learned to drive it in two days. But then again, I'm mojo2.

[strictlyplaid]

Originally Posted by macaddict0001

My dad has not driven a manual transmission in twenty years but he just bought a car with a manual, how do I explain how to shift to him, and most importantly how to slow down and stop.(he stalled the engine a few times from braking already).

With the braking thing: all you do is just push in the clutch once the car is nearly stopped, right? If you're at a light, you can put the car into neutral and let back off the clutch.

Other than that, just tell him to let off the clutch smoothly and not too slowly when taking off -- learning how not to "dump" the clutch too fast is an art I think you can only learn by sort of feeling it out, and differs from car to car.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by strictlyplaid

With the braking thing: all you do is just push in the clutch once the car is nearly stopped, right? If you're at a light, you can put the car into neutral and let back off the clutch.

Other than that, just tell him to let off the clutch smoothly and not too slowly when taking off -- learning how not to "dump" the clutch too fast is an art I think you can only learn by sort of feeling it out, and differs from car to car.

And that bad-funny, acrid smell IS coming from your car and not someone else's.

(Burning up your clutch.)

(Not good.)

[OogaBooga]

Originally Posted by mojo2

And that bad-funny, acrid smell IS coming from your car and not someone else's.

(Burning up your clutch.)

(Not good.)

I smelt this when I was learning how to drive my first manual. There was also a little smoke coming from under the hood.


I thought a squirrel had gotten stuck in the engine compartment and was being cooked. It turns out I burnt the clutch.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by OogaBooga

I smelt this when I was learning how to drive my first manual. There was also a little smoke coming from under the hood.


I thought a squirrel had gotten stuck in the engine compartment and was being cooked. It turns out I burnt the clutch.

Price of new clutch - $385.00.

Knowing not to burn it out again - PRICELESS!

[macaddict0001]

He did at one point but he just needs some tips, he can drive it he just rides the clutch and stuff like that, maybe I didn't make that clear enough.

[Railroader]

Ask athens. *
























































* I just wanted to make Rob laugh again.

[jcadam]

My Dad had to teach me to drive a manual. Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

[as2]

Get him to practice using nothing but the clutch to drive the car on a straight section of (very) quite road.

Put the car in first and then bring the clutch up slowly as the car gains momentum, then change to second and do the same.... By the time you get to 5th the car will probably hit 30mph, but at least he'll have a better feel for the clutch, and the 'biting' point.

Then all he needs to do is make sure he changes up before the car screams at him, and puts the clutch down before he stops.

Back in the 'old days' people were taught that you had to change down a gear at a time until you got to 1st again when stopping at lights and things, but now the recommended method is to 'loop' the gears from say 5th to 3rd to 1st.

Also, avoid using the handbrake/parking break at lights unless you are on a steep incline. If you use the foot break, and some jackass runs into the back of you, by taking your foot off the break and then re-applying the break you can remove some of the force from the impact.

NB.. But seriously.. Your dad bought a manual without remembering how to drive one... That does seem a little dumb.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by as2

Get him to practice using nothing but the clutch to drive the car on a straight section of (very) quite road.

Put the car in first and then bring the clutch up slowly as the car gains momentum, then change to second and do the same.... By the time you get to 5th the car will probably hit 30mph, but at least he'll have a better feel for the clutch, and the 'biting' point.

Then all he needs to do is make sure he changes up before the car screams at him, and puts the clutch down before he stops.

Back in the 'old days' people were taught that you had to change down a gear at a time until you got to 1st again when stopping at lights and things, but now the recommended method is to 'loop' the gears from say 5th to 3rd to 1st.

Also, avoid using the handbrake/parking break at lights unless you are on a steep incline. If you use the foot break, and some jackass runs into the back of you, by taking your foot off the break and then re-applying the break you can remove some of the force from the impact.

NB.. But seriously.. Your dad bought a manual without remembering how to drive one... That does seem a little dumb.

I REALLY resent your referring to an act of adventure and sink or swim motivation as being dumb.

[Troll]

As for the shift up question, the redline is there for a reason. He should only shift up when he hits 6500rpm.

That applies to each gear. I've never understood why they bother putting in more than 3 gears when you can do 100km/h in first.

[ghporter]

The manual for the car should not only tell you what RPMs to shift at, it should have a good explanation of how, when, and why to shift. Have dad RTFM. Further, if he HAS driven a standard transmission in the past (and done OK with it) it should come back like riding a bike. Otherwise, he's in for an expensive lesson-$350 is LOW for a Volvo clutch!

[Nivag]

Originally Posted by Troll

As for the shift up question, the redline is there for a reason. He should only shift up when he hits 6500rpm.

That applies to each gear. I've never understood why they bother putting in more than 3 gears when you can do 100km/h in first.

also you don't need a clutch if you're bouncing off the rev limiter, just snatch the next gear

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by ghporter

The manual for the car should not only tell you what RPMs to shift at, it should have a good explanation of how, when, and why to shift.

US car manuals have info like that in them?!?

[ghporter]

Most car manuals are written with the attitude that the reader knows zilch about cars in general. The last US car manual I read had enough detail in it that if you knew which side of the road you were supposed to be on, and what those red octagonal signs meant, you'd do OK. My Hondas' manuals have had not only details on when and how to shift in different situations, but also tips on how to handle all sorts of other driving challenges. They're really good manuals.

[Mediaman_12]

UK manuals must be different then. Wrote from the point of view that the reader knows how to 'Drive'. Info on what buttons & switches do what, How to check the Oil and where to put it, but nothing on 'Change up when the engine reaches XXXrpm.

[Y3a]

I've been driving strictly 5 speeds since 1982. They are really easy to learn to use. I agree about the laughter...

[Troll]

Originally Posted by ghporter

The manual for the car should not only tell you what RPMs to shift at.!

What's so hard to understand about the redline? You can shift anywhere you like as long as its downstream of the red line. And if you push it too hard, the rev limiter will sort you out anyway.

[Eriamjh]

I don't know about the rest of you, but where I come from, you press in the clutch whenever you are decellerating/braking. The only time you don't is when you want the engine to help reduce your speed (don't even ask about how to downshift and use the engine RPMs to slow the car when your brakes fail).

And a new clutch might be $385 for the parts, but I doubt you can get one installed for that much. Try $1000-2000+.

I've been driving sticks for about 10 years now. '84 Fiero, '87 Fiero, '97 del Sol, '99 Beetle, & '01 PT. Today's clutches are so smooth, they are cake to drive. My '84 required a lumberjack leg to push! My PT is like driving an automatic, except you have to do the work.

[sixandout]

step one rent a stick driven car
step two practice like the other people said
step three go back to your car, please don't learn to drive a manual while breaking in the engine. it makes me want to cry.

[dracoleb]

I just learned stick last week when I got a 5 speed 2001 corolla. Got a ton of great information from Standard Shift
If you want you can take a look at my new car here or check out my old Oldsmobile here

[suvsr4terrorists]

Originally Posted by Eriamj

Today's clutches are so smooth, they are cake to drive. My '84 required a lumberjack leg to push! My PT is like driving an automatic, except you have to do the work.

Try driving a 68 Charger with a highly modified 383 and drag racing clutch (super stiff springs for extra grip) in rush hour traffic.

My leg started cramping and convulting. Ugh.

[bells0]

My God, this is hilarious - u Americans make me larf!!

[jcadam]

Big difference between ye olde spring clutches and the hydraulic clutches in use today.

And yea, Automatic is way more popular in America than anywhere else. There are a lot of new American cars that aren't even available with a stick.

You would be surprised how many Americans I meet that can't drive a stick.

MUAHAHAAAA

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Troll

What's so hard to understand about the redline? You can shift anywhere you like as long as its downstream of the red line. And if you push it too hard, the rev limiter will sort you out anyway.

You shift up as early as possible to save fuel. Not at the maximum rpm.

[suvsr4terrorists]

Originally Posted by jcadam

Big difference between ye olde spring clutches and the hydraulic clutches in use today.

And yea, Automatic is way more popular in America than anywhere else. There are a lot of new American cars that aren't even available with a stick.

You would be surprised how many Americans I meet that can't drive a stick.

The new charger isn't even available with a manual.

Pathetic.

[SimeyTheLimey]

I learned to drive with a manual, but I don't think I'd ever go back. Unless you are a racing driver, manual transmission makes as much sense to me as a manual choke. There is no reason on a modern car why the driver should be worrying about mechanical functions under the hood. It's an automobile, not an engineer's project. Next we'll be going back to manually advancing the spark.

Interestingly, European cars generally came with manual chokes a couple of decades after ordinary American cars came equipped with automatic ones. I heard the same justifications well into the 1980s about how manual chokes were superior to automatic, when in reality the cars being sold simply had stripped down specifications to keep the cost down. It's amazing how people will accept inferior technology if you convince them that wrestling with it makes them somehow smarter. But I suppose, that's how Norton makes its fortune with Microsoft products.

[macroy]

Originally Posted by jcadam

Big difference between ye olde spring clutches and the hydraulic clutches in use today.

And yea, Automatic is way more popular in America than anywhere else. There are a lot of new American cars that aren't even available with a stick.

heh... yea - a few years back a dealer wanted 2K more for a manual Maxima than the automatic one... go figure. I ended with a manual Camry of all things... Sorry I got rid of it too.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

You shift up as early as possible to save fuel. Not at the maximum rpm.

I was joking earlier about only shifting at the redline.

It's a common misconception though that shifting early saves fuel. Try pulling off all the time in second gear and see what your fuel consumption looks like. If you shift too early, the engine has to labour and you use more fuel than you would if you use a lower gear. Generally, the further down your foot is on the accelerator, the more fuel you're using. Different engines develop torque at different speeds so for some engines, it's actually more efficient to rev them high. Thing is, it's not pleasant driving a car at 12,000 rpm all the time if for no other reason than the noise.

[suvsr4terrorists]

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

I learned to drive with a manual, but I don't think I'd ever go back. Unless you are a racing driver, manual transmission makes as much sense to me as a manual choke.

Huge difference. I don't consider the automatic transmission a step forward. They're a lot less efficient, which means worse gas mileage. They don't have as many gears (most of the time), so where you to get a manual you'd get a 5 or 6spd transmission, where you to get an automatic it'd be a 3spd, 4spd, or MAYBE (but RARELY) a 5spd. The more gears, the more you can drive at lower RPMs, = better gas mileage AND better performance. Not to mention greater control. If I'd like to downshift before a corner to power out of it in a 5spd, I just drop it down a gear and come out of a corner a bit faster in a lower gear. With an automatic, in order to get it to kick down a gear, you need to jab the gas with your foot, making it drop one or two gears, but then the throttle is way down, so you end up looking like some pissed off 16 yr old trying to squeal his tires around a corner. It's annoying.

Automatics use MORE gas, are slower, and they don't offer the control of a manual. I find them annoying. Not to mention people who drive automatics usually are eating, reading, or yapping on their phones not paying attention. With a manual you concentrate more on driving.

[suvsr4terrorists]

Originally Posted by Troll

I was joking earlier about only shifting at the redline.

It's a common misconception though that shifting early saves fuel. Try pulling off all the time in second gear and see what your fuel consumption looks like. If you shift too early, the engine has to labour and you use more fuel than you would if you use a lower gear. Generally, the further down your foot is on the accelerator, the more fuel you're using. Different engines develop torque at different speeds so for some engines, it's actually more efficient to rev them high. Thing is, it's not pleasant driving a car at 12,000 rpm all the time if for no other reason than the noise.

You're making it too complicated. Don't shift at redline. Don't shift so early that the next gear makes your engine bog. The end.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists

With a manual you concentrate more on driving.

Good point. We should make it mandatory for all those cell-phone-using-while-driving-teenage girls.

Uhm, well, maybe not...

-t

[turtle777]

Don't believe the hype. Don't shift AT ALL. You won't need it.
After all, you are not on the Autobahn, right ?

-t

[strictlyplaid]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh

I don't know about the rest of you, but where I come from, you press in the clutch whenever you are decellerating/braking. The only time you don't is when you want the engine to help reduce your speed (don't even ask about how to downshift and use the engine RPMs to slow the car when your brakes fail).

Dad taught me (back when I learned stick) that you should always downshift to reduce speed, in order to save wear on your brakes. So IIRC, I usually didn't let off the clutch completely until I was nearly stopped.

[wdlove]

I began my driving career with manual shift on a VW Bug. The last time using a manual was in 1984, also VW Bug. I wish you success in assisting your father. This could be a good opportunity for bonding.

[suvsr4terrorists]

Originally Posted by strictlyplaid

Dad taught me (back when I learned stick) that you should always downshift to reduce speed, in order to save wear on your brakes. So IIRC, I usually didn't let off the clutch completely until I was nearly stopped.

We covered this already with Athen's boneheaded posts. DO NOT DO THAT. Brakes are designed to stop your car, and they should be MORE THAN ABLE TO DO SO. Downshifting puts extra wear and tear on your transmission, clutch, and teh entire drivetrain. Here's what I wrote to Athens:

" It boils down to whether or not you care how the care performs at 100k miles, and when you want to replace your clutch. The clutch is basically a big metal disc with another disc covered with sandpaper. The sandpaper eventually wears out, and hten your clutch slips. The more you use it, the sooner it wears out. If you can't understand this, I don't know what to tell you. Also, you have a 2000 lb car!? Wow. That's a seriously light car... what kind is it? And again, you show your ignorance a few more times in this paragraph. You call the brakes, "breaks", which is something 2nd graders do. You refer to saving the brakes, and again, you've missed the point of EVERY ****ING PERSON telling you that it puts more wear and tear on the engine and transmission. And then, to put a cherry on this big ignorant heap of crap you've spouted, you say that imports must have better clutches than domestics. Please don't reproduce. "

Here's a link:

http://www.cartalk.com/content/colu...99/June/06.html

here's another:

http://www.stretcher.com/stories/970310d.cfm

Here's the original thread:

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=261632

[Troll]

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

I learned to drive with a manual, but I don't think I'd ever go back. Unless you are a racing driver, manual transmission makes as much sense to me as a manual choke.

I disagree with you there. Three reasons. First two are safety related, last one is environment related.

To me, manual cars are safer because you have more control over the car. Two scenarios where this is the case. 1) You're behind an 18 wheeler and want to overtake. In a manual, you change down a gear, pull out and you have all the power you need at your disposal. You change up again when it's safe to dump the torque. In an automatic, you pull out, put your foot down, hit the kickdown (if there is one), wait for the box to change and then you start overtaking. You're entirely at the car's mercy and it may decide midway through the overtaking manouevre to change gears but most of all, you spend more time alongside the truck than you would in a manual. 2) Turning in town. In a manual, you slow down, shift into second and you know you're good to go around the corner. You can balance the car with the accelerator and if something happens mid turn, you're ready to react. In an automatic, it's much harder to judge that it's safe to turn because you don't know when the car is going to change into the right gear and because the engine is coasting around the turn, you have less control over the car. By way of comparison, drive a manual car around a corner in neutral and then try with the car in second and you'll notice a huge difference.

I recently spent about a month with a 3l supercharged Mercedes SLK with an auto box and even what is supposed to be a quick reacting gearbox wasn't as reassuring to drive as a manual.

Third reason, automatic gearboxes are inefficient. They use quite a bit more fuel than manual gearboxes.

[strictlyplaid]

Originally Posted by mojo2

And that bad-funny, acrid smell IS coming from your car and not someone else's.

(Burning up your clutch.)

(Not good.)

Is that a general comment, or is that about my driving skill? I drove stick on a Honda Prelude for 4-5 years (I stopped because my wife doesn't know how and REFUSES to learn) and never had trouble with my clutch.

If the comment is general though, much worse is the grinding noise you get if you try to put the car into gear without having put on the clutch fast enough, i.e. the sound of the metal gears literally rubbing up against each other at 1000 RPM. *wince*

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists

Huge difference. I don't consider the automatic transmission a step forward. They're a lot less efficient, which means worse gas mileage. They don't have as many gears (most of the time), so where you to get a manual you'd get a 5 or 6spd transmission, where you to get an automatic it'd be a 3spd, 4spd, or MAYBE (but RARELY) a 5spd. The more gears, the more you can drive at lower RPMs, = better gas mileage AND better performance. Not to mention greater control. If I'd like to downshift before a corner to power out of it in a 5spd, I just drop it down a gear and come out of a corner a bit faster in a lower gear. With an automatic, in order to get it to kick down a gear, you need to jab the gas with your foot, making it drop one or two gears, but then the throttle is way down, so you end up looking like some pissed off 16 yr old trying to squeal his tires around a corner. It's annoying.

Automatics use MORE gas, are slower, and they don't offer the control of a manual. I find them annoying. Not to mention people who drive automatics usually are eating, reading, or yapping on their phones not paying attention. With a manual you concentrate more on driving.

Yes, those are the rationalizations.

I can't say I worry too much about competing with 16 year olds squealing their tyres. I grew out of that long ago.

Originally Posted by Troll

I disagree with you there. Three reasons. First two are safety related, last one is environment related.

I disagree with you about the safety issue. You probably recall that I went through an anti-terrorism driving school run by the Deutche Verkehrswacht. Doing J turns and other (less extreme) maneuvers with both manual and automatic transmission cars convinced me that not only do you have all the control you need with an automatic, but also those maneuvers are safer and easier with an automatic. The more things you have to do mechanically, the less you are concentrating on the road, and the more there are things you can do wrong (such as stall the car). The marginal increase in control you get from a manual is more than offset by the fact that you are having to do more things at once. It's better simply to be able to keep both hands on the wheel and let the car handle trivial mechanical things like selecting a gear.

Mostly, this is all psychological. People feel that they are somehow smarter and better if they are doing more with the car. But it isn't necessary with a modern car, and I don't see the reason to be doing things that a modern car can easily handle automatically.

[suvsr4terrorists]

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

Yes, those are the rationalizations.

I can't say I worry too much about competing with 16 year olds squealing their tyres. I grew out of that long ago.

Exactly my point. With an automatic, you have less control, so if you'd like to exit out of a corner in a lower gear, you have to have the throttle almost wide open so you end up looking like a dumbass. You look like you're trying to race somewhere, instead of just shifting down a gear and accelerating out of a turn.

Less control. Less efficient. Less performance.

Those three things do not equal a step forward.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Troll

It's a common misconception though that shifting early saves fuel. […] it's actually more efficient to rev them high.

No, you got it backwards. The lower rpm you drive with the less fuel us burned. It's simple logic since with every round a certain amount of fuel is used. So if you can drive the same speed in a higher gear with lower rpm you use less fuel overall.

[Shaddim]

Learned stick when I was 12, haven't ever owned an automatic. Kim's car is an auto, 2000 Jetta, and I hate driving the thing... feel like I need to be doing something while I'm driving, and my foot is always going for the clutch that isn't there.

[macroy]

Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists

Huge difference. I don't consider the automatic transmission a step forward...

Agreed... just a different transmission. A step forward from manual IMO would be the sequencial transmissions a la Ferrari, BMW and Toyota.

[suvsr4terrorists]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

No, you got it backwards. The lower rpm you drive with the less fuel us burned. It's simple logic since with every round a certain amount of fuel is used. So if you can drive the same speed in a higher gear with lower rpm you use less fuel overall.

Sorta. If you shift too early, your engine bogs down, which uses a lot of fuel. In an older car it would have caused knocking or pinging, but with today's computer controlled cars fitted with more knock sensors than you can shake a stick at, it merely richens up hte mixture using a lot of fuel.

Generally though, the lower the rpm, the less fuel you're using. Except when you make your engine bog out, that uses a lot of fuel.

Again, this topic is mind boggling. It really isn't all that complicated.