Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Happy Birthday song

Happy Birthday song
Thread Tools
osiris
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Isle of Manhattan
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 23, 2015, 12:57 PM
 
We can now sing the Happy Birthday song freely and openly, without fear of a G-man knocking down your door!
Took long enough, but the copyright claims have been declared invalid.

All the 'Happy Birthday' song copyright claims are invalid, federal judge rules - LA Times
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 23, 2015, 01:06 PM
 
Of course this begs the question, how the hell was something over 100 years old still in copyright?
     
osiris  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Isle of Manhattan
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 23, 2015, 01:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Of course this begs the question, how the hell was something over 100 years old still in copyright?
I think it was sold in the 80s, so it was kept alive on the books.
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
starman
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Union County, NJ
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 23, 2015, 01:12 PM
 
I don't have a problem with something so old being copyrighted if it's still in use. If not, then Mickey Mouse, etc. would become public domain. I can't agree with that.

I was reading an article about this a few months ago. Someone uncovered a version of the song which (IANAL) invalidated the copyright because it pre-dated what WB assumed.

Home - Twitter - Sig Wall-Retired - Flickr
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 23, 2015, 01:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
I think it was sold in the 80s, so it was kept alive on the books.
It was 90 years old in the 80s. Same question.

Originally Posted by starman View Post
I don't have a problem with something so old being copyrighted if it's still in use. If not, then Mickey Mouse, etc. would become public domain. I can't agree with that.
Mickey Mouse has new works created around him. Not so much for a short diddy.
     
osiris  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Isle of Manhattan
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 23, 2015, 02:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
It was 90 years old in the 80s. Same question.
The song was copyrighted in 1935 though published much earlier and used even earlier (1800s?) than that in some variation. So the copyright is from 1935 and tied to lifespan of the owner - therefore entirely plausable.
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 23, 2015, 02:19 PM
 
When did the owner die?
     
osiris  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Isle of Manhattan
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 23, 2015, 02:27 PM
 
it was sold to another party along with the copyright, but supposedly the rights were for only playing on the piano not vocally singing it. Then there's the issue of having music for it but the words are totally different in another copyright... no wonder it was made void because it's ridiculous.
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 23, 2015, 02:34 PM
 
The author died in 1938.
     
reader50
Administrator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: California
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 23, 2015, 02:39 PM
 
The music was originally written with different words. The music has been in the public domain since sometime in the 1980s or 1990s. The remaining copyright (and Warner's $1-2M per year licensing regime) is based on the modern words. Trouble is, no one knows who wrote the words, so Warner can't show ever getting the rights.

Also, Warner got the copyright in 1935. The plaintiffs were able to find an old songbook from the 1920s, showing the modern words and labeled as "used by permission". Published openly without any listed restrictions, before copyright was applied. The judge invalidated the copyright on multiple grounds.
     
osiris  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Isle of Manhattan
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 23, 2015, 02:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
The author died in 1938.

There were two - the Hill sisters. Patty died in 1946 and Mildred in 1916.

But then, which author are we talking about?
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 23, 2015, 02:51 PM
 
The one that it was credited to on the copyright: Preston Ware Orem
(There was another but there's no link for them)
     
osiris  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Isle of Manhattan
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 23, 2015, 02:53 PM
 
damn this is a mess
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 23, 2015, 03:00 PM
 
rekt
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 23, 2015, 03:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
I don't have a problem with something so old being copyrighted if it's still in use. If not, then Mickey Mouse, etc. would become public domain. I can't agree with that.
I have absolutely no problem with old works remaining copyrighted, what I have a problem with is with ridiculously long copyrights being the default.

There's no question there should be some mechanism for an entity to maintain copyright in perpetuity. Disney has the resources to curate its library. Let them go ape shit with it.

The problem is those who don't have the resources to curate their library for 70 years after they die, or they only provided for a shorter time past their death, because length of copyright was changed after their death.

There are an uncountable number of works where the author is dead, they gave no provision to maintain their work, and someone else trying is illegal. It's destroying the legacy of American art.
     
reader50
Administrator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: California
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 23, 2015, 07:46 PM
 
This is the legal basis of Copyright and patents:
Originally Posted by US Constitution
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
Let's parse it out:

• "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts" = to expand human knowledge, ie - the public domain.

• "by securing for limited Times" = forever copyrights and patents are not allowed by the Constitution. They were always meant to expire.

• "to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;" - er, I don't see corporations here. Or any 3rd party after the author/inventor.

Our current forever-extended copyrights violate the spirit of the constitution, and constantly deny the Public our works, when the copyrights should have expired. And those rights are supposed to apply only to the original people who wrote or invented them.

I'm in favor of a blanket 20-year limit on copyrights or patents. Why should anyone (or any corporation) be paid forever for doing one job?
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 23, 2015, 09:23 PM
 
Well, as I said above, I think if you have the means to curate your library in perpetuity then it's fair to give you a mechanism to do so. The library is available. That's the desire. I would argue availability is what promotes the progress of science and useful arts.

Where the public domain comes in is as another method of keeping things available. People who can't keep their library available need this mechanism. The vast majority of people are not in a position to accommodate keeping their work available for close to a century after their death. The law caters to the exceptions, not the majority.

What's most galling is the exceptions the law caters to have means well beyond what is necessary to accommodate a system where one is asked to file for some form copyright extension.
     
starman
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Union County, NJ
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 24, 2015, 11:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
I'm in favor of a blanket 20-year limit on copyrights or patents. Why should anyone (or any corporation) be paid forever for doing one job?
Ask George Lucas.

Home - Twitter - Sig Wall-Retired - Flickr
     
   
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:56 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,