[red rocket]

I'm looking into buying an old, cheap laptop for writing on. Just writing, nothing else (and some method to transfer the projects onto my G3 iMac or PM 7500). I don't even need or necessarily want a colour screen.

Naturally, I'm primarily thinking about old PowerBooks, but if I really had to, I suppose I could live with an old PC laptop, provided it could run NeXTstep or OpenStep or something like that.

What do you think would make the best type of machine for this?

[rjt1000]

OK-->You asked for vintage: The PowerBook 1400 had a terrific keyboard for a writer. You can read some of the accolades. But it is an ancient computer and it may be impractical since it would require searching out old operating systems and software, connectivity may be a problem and it may be hard to find parts. The PowerBook Pismo has a nice keyboard too. It is also an old timer, but still quite capable for modest tasks like word processing. The 14 inch screen is also a pleasure to use. They can be found under $150 on eBay, parts are plentiful, most repairs can be done by the user, they can run OS X and modern word processing software, web browsers etc. and there are good connectivity options.

[OreoCookie]

I had a PowerBook G3 Kanga: fast machine, great keyboard. It had a 12" screen (I'm also pretty sure the PowerBook 1400 had a 12" screen) and it's a bit heavy by today's standards, but it's a nice and very solid machine. It has an ethernet port, so you can connect to other Macs quite easily to transfer your work. It's 10 MBit ethernet, but as long as you don't transfer anything large, you should be fine.

[red rocket]

Thanks.

The PowerBook 1400 looks interesting. Normally, the lack of an Ethernet port would put me off, but as I already have a Macsense LocalTalk adapter, that doesn't seem to matter so much. First choice now.

I'm considering the Kanga as an option. Pismo seems like overkill: if I got one, I'd be tempted to run OS X on it, which would prove to be too much of a distraction, seeing as I only need a glorified typewriter.

[rjt1000]

Originally Posted by red rocket 

The PowerBook 1400 looks interesting. Normally, the lack of an Ethernet port would put me off, but as I already have a Macsense LocalTalk adapter, that doesn't seem to matter so much. First choice now.

I used the 1400c /133 for about 5 years, first as my main machine and then as a backup. If you decide on it, I would look for the active matrix display model (1400c) which is still very cheap. It will be easier on the eyes than the passive display (1400cs). BTW, there are also ethernet PCMCIA cards if the local talk adapter doesnt work out (I used the Farallon Ethermac).

[mac128k-1984]

I think this should fit the bill

[amazing]

Best laptop would be an old iBook, either 12" and 14", depending on your eyesight and on how much mobility you need. They have excellent wireless range and were produced in quantities sufficient to ensure reasonable prices. Just make sure you get a model with the internal airport card (the airport cards are selling for big enough bucks that the seller will often remove the wireless card.)

[IceEnclosure]

what about a PowerBook 2400?

[peeb]

Almost anything will do, but frankly, if you are focussed on writing, you should get something relatively recent, to avoid constantly worrying about keeping it going. A second hand ibook from the past 4-5 years will be a great bargain for you.

[red rocket]

Originally Posted by amazing

Best laptop would be an old iBook, either 12" and 14", depending on your eyesight and on how much mobility you need. They have excellent wireless range and were produced in quantities sufficient to ensure reasonable prices. Just make sure you get a model with the internal airport card (the airport cards are selling for big enough bucks that the seller will often remove the wireless card.)

To be perfectly honest, I have no need for wireless, whatsoever.

What is important to me is the feel of the keyboard, potential battery life, and readability of text on the screen.

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

what about a PowerBook 2400?

What advantages would it have over the 1400? I don't know much about 2400's, but the first thing I read about them was that the keyboard is smaller.

Originally Posted by peeb

Almost anything will do, but frankly, if you are focussed on writing, you should get something relatively recent, to avoid constantly worrying about keeping it going. A second hand ibook from the past 4-5 years will be a great bargain for you.

The iBooks you mentioned are above budget. I don't intend to spend more than around $100, and that includes new batteries. Besides, I haven't been impressed with the build quality of any of the G3 iBooks. When I played with them in the shops, they all struck me as somewhat flimsy, which is why I never bought one at the time, even though I had the money over.

Also, I'm a bit of an antiques freak; if I can get something that'll serve my needs that is old enough that most people would consider it obsolete, I'd rather get that than something newer which is capable of more than I need to do.

I mean, I've got a Newton, as well, need I say more?

Pity NeXT never made any laptops, I have a feeling I would have liked those.

[kermit4161]

I'd recommend staying with something that'll still run a current OS, just for connectivity sakes. Pismo Powerbooks can be had pretty cheap, are solid machines (mine is going strong after seven years) and are decent to write on.

The advantage to this is once you write, you'll have to do "something" with your work. Either print it, e-mail it, file it, store it... getting a *really* old machine will make all of those things hard to do (other than filing it on the computer).

Overall, even though I think all the older computers mentioned earlier are VERY cool... for the purposes of a working computer, I think the Pismo is the best bang for your buck.

Good luck

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

I had a PowerBook G3 Kanga: fast machine, great keyboard. It had a 12" screen (I'm also pretty sure the PowerBook 1400 had a 12" screen) and it's a bit heavy by today's standards, but it's a nice and very solid machine. It has an ethernet port, so you can connect to other Macs quite easily to transfer your work. It's 10 MBit ethernet, but as long as you don't transfer anything large, you should be fine.

red rocket, if you're interested in a Kanga G3 PB, I have one for sale here.

[DigitalEl]

12" PowerBook G4 .. Best keyboard I've ever used.

[jasong]

I doubt any PowerBook beyond 4 years old is going to have anything approaching satisfactory battery life simply due to the age of the batteries. Unless you can do the work to rebuild the batteries yourself, they are going to be difficult to find and rather pricey.

Maybe I'm wrong and the fact that older machines don't have high drain wireless and such will make a difference (I know my Pismo running OS 9 always got better battery life than it or my 1Ghz TiBook did with OS X), but I would think shear age will trump all.

[bbales]

I've got a 3400 (I think it's running 8.5...) with a broken trackpad (so you'd need a mouse). Seems to me the keyboard was just fine, though I can't really recall as it's been so long since I've used it!

I do have to echo the remarks about the 12-in PB and its keyboard, though. That's what I'm using right now and it's a GREAT keyboard. Pricier, for sure, though!

[anthology123]

Would not recmommend a 2400 to a writer. While good size, it's keyboard is smaller than standard, which could lead to RSI injuries if used on a regular basis. Otherwise, it's great, I have one myself.
I would recommend an iBook G3 (even the clamshell one)

[olePigeon]

180c and Duos had nice keyboards. They were practically normal keyboard keys on a laptop.

[Aranamac]

I had a PowerBook 540c for a while second hand from a thrift shop. Unfortunately its hard drive gave out after a week or so. In the meantime, I LOVED typing and writing on that machine. It had built-in Ethernet, which with an adapter worked wonderfully. I could send basic email and do writing. The design of the 540c is great, too.

Battery life is a big problem, though. They're still obscenely expensive, and getting vintage software can be a pain. But I had system 7 running pleasantly on it.

[vmarks]

I'm voting iBook, and I'll say why:

You want to be able to transfer to other computers. USB is a good method. sneakernet with a USB flash drive. In fact, get a 1gb flash drive for 12.99 and you'll probably never fill it before you copy it to your other computers, if all you're putting on it is 32k document files. USB and a flash drive mean that you can copy to any other computer. Using something older means no USB, and that's going to limit the number of computers to which you can transfer.

Battery life has already been well-commented on. I want to address a different aspect: Older mac laptops used SCSI drives. If the laptop dies (and it will. It's old already) you want be able to get that drive out and connect it to a newer machine and rescue your writing off, if you haven't backed up to that aforementioned USB drive. iBooks have IDE drives inside. They're hard to get at, but they're in there, and you don't care about the laptop if it dies nearly as much as you care about the writing.

Why not a wallstreet/lombard/pismo? Hinges fail on these, getting progressively looser, or breaking and tearing the video data cable when they do. They don't necessarily feel solid, have some flex to them. Upside? It's possible to put two batteries in them and get double the battery life. The hard drive is much easier to remove than an iBook. Why not a Kanga? RAM will be very hard to find for it, for one thing. Why not a wallstreet? Lombard was the first to have USB built-in.

I have a Lombard powerbook 333mhz that is currently running 10.2, but could be put back at 9.0.4 or 9.1. I could include a license for Word 6, or Office98. I'm afraid I don't have a license for NisusWriter for that OS. Make me an offer in PM if you wish. It would need it's batteries rebuilt, but running OS 9 with new batteries, it could have an 8-10 hour battery life.

Lombard shows some pics of it. Of course, it also attained internet fame in this video: http://podcasts.macnn.com/brenthaven.m4v . It's still in great shape (hinges are a little loose, I could include spares from a pismo I think, it's got very likely 128mb or 384mb, which would run OS 9.1 very very well. (My G4 from 2001 came with 64mb from Apple, if you can imagine.)

I should mention, my aunt who runs a newspaper went through the very same thing: she wants to have a small laptop for the field. So she uses an IBM 486 with a rebuilt battery, running win3.1 or win95. I have two of the IBM thinkpad 701cs computers (with the butterfly keyboard) May 1995 / Reviews / Incredible Expanding Keyboard -- I think she uses the 510CS. At any rate, they're capable of using with a type2 or type3 pcmcia usb card, but don't have usb natively - which is why I would still aim for the newer lombard or ibook.

You haven't said what your budget is.

[red rocket]

1. Good point about the USB. Hadn't even thought about it for file transfer, but now that you mention it, transferring small text files via Ethernet does seem a bit awkward.

2. SCSI drives aren't necessarily a problem for me; my upgraded PM 7500 still has an empty drive bay.

3. It's beginning to look like the biggest issue I'm facing is batteries. Mobility is pretty much the main reason I'm thinking about laptops.

4. My location (EU*) makes buying something from the US or Israel pretty much unfeasible. The shipping costs are just too high.

Originally Posted by vmarks

You haven't said what your budget is.

Originally Posted by red rocket

The iBooks you mentioned are above budget. I don't intend to spend more than around $100, and that includes new batteries.

Or rebuilt, I suppose.

Thanks, anyway. All advice is appreciated.


*I'm not going to be any more precise, as I'm a privacy nut. For the same reason, I most probably will not be buying the laptop from anybody I know on any internet forum, but rather from some complete stranger on eBay. No offence meant to anyone, that's just the way it is.

[Goldfinger]

You want a great keyboard ? Get an IBM ThinkPad and put Linux on it. You'll have a stable modern OS for free that can run on systems with low specs.

$100 is very low tough. A new battery alone is easily €100. And you'll really need a new battery if you intend to use it while away from any power lines. I think that €300 is more realistic.

The IBM T-series or X-series are awesome. I used to have a PowerBook G4 (Titanium) which I have replaced with an iMac. I then bought a second hand ThinkPad X23 for my portable needs. It's soooo much better than my PowerBook. You can literraly throw this thing around, it's really strong. Plus, it weighs very little.

If you really don't want a PC then I would get a white iBook (G4) if I were you. You shouldn't get something really old IMHO. You'll regret it. You're better off spending a little bit more to get something more up to date.

PS: thinkpads.com Support Community :: Index great ThinkPad forum if you want to get some info.

[pheonixash]

I agree with Goldfinger. ThinkPads have the best laptop keyboards. They don't get better than that. You could one of the older X-Series like the X21, I'm sure it'll be quite cheap, and ThinkPads just go on and on and on. They have bad quality screens though, so that might be a consideration.

[Goldfinger]

The screens is just fine for text*. I would agree that it's sub par for graphics/photot.

The screen issue is another reason why the OP should go for a newer one instead of a really old laptop. LCDs grow dimmer over the course of time. A newer one will certainly have a brighter display than a really old one.

Well my X23 is still in great condition. The viewing angle isn't great though. The T-series screens are better. T-series also have keybords with marginallly larger keys than the X-series.

[peeb]

Thinkpads really are robust.

[D'Espice]

Actually, there's a couple of nice Apple laptops you could get - it all depends on your budget and your requirements.

The PowerBook 1400 does have the finest keyboard in any laptop I have ever used so far. Typing on that thing is like an orgasm in your fingers, it's amazing. However, connectivity is practically non-existent - no wireless, no USB, no ethernet. The 3400's keyboard is almost as good as the 1400's, and the laptop itself is a lot faster than the 1400, plus it has a built-in ethernet port and comes with Cardbus-compatibility, which means that you should in theory be able to equip it with a PCMCIA USB 2.0 card.

The Wallstreet/Lombard/Pismo keyboards are mighty nice, the computers themselves fast enough to serve as typewriters and even more. You don't need to run OS X on them, OS 9 runs just fine. Lombard and Pismo also come with USB-ports which in todays world is a major advantage you shouldn't understimate.

What is eventually going to influence your decision is the battery though. There are no new batteries available for the old PowerBooks (by old, I mean everything older than Wallstreet), yet Wallstreet/Lombard/Pismo can be equipped with two 6600mAh batteries at the same time, for roughly 80€ a piece (eBay Germany). On the other hand they're quite heavy, I think a Wallstreet with two batteries should kick in with more than six pounds (3+ kg), Lombard and Pismo should be around 5 pounds with two batteries.

[sanford]

If you don't mind using Windows, this is the age where *new* Windows laptops are going for $399 (hardly powerhouses, but full-fledged XP, even Vista, laptops) -- you should be able to get one of these models a couple years old; PCs just don't hold their value like Macs -- with a serviceable battery for around $100. Of course you can transfer files via Ethernet, and most of these cheap laptops from a couple years ago should have wired Ethernet, but no wireless.

I'm a writer, and used to use a Mac desktop and laptop combination, although I wrote primarily on the laptop. Then when the late PowerBook G3s and all the G4s became quite suitable on all fronts, I switched to a PowerBook only, glad to be managing only one computer. When I was looking to upgrade an original aluminum 15" PowerBook G4, I went into an Apple Store and they had just received the MacBooks. I bought one on the spot. I found them all of the Mac at a smaller size and weight, better battery life -- though my MacBook rarely leaves my desk, plugged into the mains -- at half the price, including a RAM and hard drive upgrade (it's a fast Mac, but was slow with the standard RAM; the larger hard drive I really needed for my sizable CD collection converted over to the Mac for my iPod).

The point of telling you this is that if you're a professional writer, I can't recommend anything more highly than the MacBook and would advise ditching the whole multi-computer deal in favor of a single MacBook. Of course if you're doing other things or you're of the generation -- I mean, I still wrote in college on a portable typewriter -- where anything but a vast video display for doing things like storing digital photos and using iTunes, or what have you, won't do, then you're in a different boat than I.

Before the MacBook, the all around best writers' laptop I owned was the PowerBook 100. The hard drive was perhaps a fifth or less the size of a current recordable CD. It would be difficult for you to transfer files; and you won't find one with a battery that lasts more than a few minutes.

[peeb]

He's right - a modern computer is going to be a lot less of a pita, but I think a G4 might be the better value if money is really tight. An iBook that runs Tiger is plenty of power for writing and photo organizing.

[rjt1000]

This has been an interesting thread with a lot of good ideas. I think the main issue is that your budget of $100 is not realistic for a workable Mac laptop and battery. The only solution I can think of at (net of) $100 would be to buy a couple of nonworking Pismos or Lombards (one with a live battery) and hope to be able to assemble one working machine and then sell off the remaining parts. But that is a huge PITA to save a relatively small amount of money. If you could increase your budget to at least $200, you could find a decent Pismo or Lombard and a good conditon used battery. But the idea of having three computers and having to transfer files and keep them synced is itself a PITA. Since your other computers are also quite old and at the point where they may breakdown and repairs would be impractical, in the end, I agree that the best deal for you would be if you could increase your budget and buy one modern laptop (a G4 iBook, a G4 Aluminum PowerBook or a MacBook) to use for all of your computing needs. You could try to sell off your old computers to help finance a bit of it. Good luck.

[sanford]

Originally Posted by rjt1000 

This has been an interesting thread with a lot of good ideas. I think the main issue is that your budget of $100 is not realistic for a workable Mac laptop and battery. The only solution I can think of at (net of) $100 would be to buy a couple of nonworking Pismos or Lombards (one with a live battery) and hope to be able to assemble one working machine and then sell off the remaining parts. But that is a huge PITA to save a relatively small amount of money. If you could increase your budget to at least $200, you could find a decent Pismo or Lombard and a good conditon used battery. But the idea of having three computers and having to transfer files and keep them synced is itself a PITA. Since your other computers are also quite old and at the point where they may breakdown and repairs would be impractical, in the end, I agree that the best deal for you would be if you could increase your budget and buy one modern laptop (a G4 iBook, a G4 Aluminum PowerBook or a MacBook) to use for all of your computing needs. You could try to sell off your old computers to help finance a bit of it. Good luck.

After having done it for years, version control -- we have that even in professional writing, of course; it's not just a software development thing -- over multiple systems is a nightmare. Let alone, wondering whether those e-mails or photos or iTunes purchases or CD conversions are on Mac A, B or C. One person, one computer really is a valid, valuable, efficient goal in managing your work, no matter what you do -- save certain scientific and research applications in which critical computers must be kept "clean" and free of personal or extraneous programs or data.

[Veltliner]

Powerbook 5300c.

It has a pretty good color screen, and the keyboard does not have those flat keys.

I used it in the past, and because it was so good for writing - like with a full, external keyboard, I used it for a very long time.

You should get it for almost nothing, as it is not old enough to be a collector's item.