[macintologist]

It's been ten years since I started listening to radio, CDs and such, particularly rock. My friends were big Nirvana fans, and lots of people were listening to REM, Alanis Morisette and other alternative groups. I know that rock has changed since then, but I'm trying to pin-point it's evolution. I know that 80s rock is worlds different from 90s rock, thanks to the influence the Pixies and Nirvana had on mainstream rock. But the difference between 90s and 2000s rock so far? It's not as clear. If you were to transplant some popular songs from the late 90's and put them on the radio now, would they stand out?

Update, according to Billboard here are the top 5 rock songs of 1997

1 - "If You Could Only See" - Tonic itms
2 - "Gone Away" - The Offspring itms
3 - "One Headlight" - The Wallflowers itms
4 - "Push" - Matchbox 20 itms
5 - "Precious Declaration" - Collective Soul itms

[Dakar²]

Wow, I only recognize the Wallflowers song by name.

Edit: I've definitely heard Push. We'll see which other ones I recognize from the iTS clips.

[macintologist]

I know it's Christian rock but if any of you are interested in the subject of how exactly rock changes over the years, I'd recommend watching this Petra tribute video on youtube

YouTube - Petra: A Tribute - 33 Years of Christian Rock

Notice how much their music changes between 1991 and 1993?? That's the Nirvana effect

[Dakar²]

Well, I recognized all but Collective Soul, which is just as well, because they suck.

(I'll be adding those 3 to my library now...)

[Steve Bosell]

Over the past 10 years rock music has become more and more derivative. Mainstream music has become a joke with bands like Good Charlotte, Teagan and Sara, Evanescense, Rascal Flatts, Nickelback and the other garbage that is in heavy rotation on every radio station nationwide. Accountants have replaced artistes in making music.

[macintologist]

Steve Bosell to be fair there was plenty of crap on the radio in 1997, as well as 1987, as well as 1977, as well as 1967. There's good and bad music from every genre and time period. I used to think country music sucked but then I changed my mind about some of it.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by macintologist 

Steve Bosell to be fair there was plenty of crap on the radio in 1997, as well as 1987, as well as 1977, as well as 1967. There's good and bad music from every genre and time period.

Bingo.

[Steve Bosell]

Sure there is good and bad of every era, however there is always successful bands that are legitimate, like Led Zeppelin, Van Halen, the Pixies, Nirvana, Soundgarden, who is the modern day equivalent? Hinder? My Chenical Romance?

[Dakar²]

We won't know for a while.

[macintologist]

Originally Posted by Steve Bosell 

Sure there is good and bad of every era, however there is always successful bands that are legitimate, like Led Zeppelin, Van Halen, the Pixies, Nirvana, Soundgarden, who is the modern day equivalent? Hinder? My Chenical Romance?

Coldplay?

The White Stripes?

The Strokes?

[Steve Bosell]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

We won't know for a while.

What are the legitimate bands from 10 years ago then? Everything on that list is extremely derivative, bubble gum grunge garbage. Outcast is pretty good mainstream stuff, that is really the only thing I can think of.

[macintologist]

Originally Posted by Steve Bosell 

What are the legitimate bands from 10 years ago then?

R
A
D
I
O
H
E
A
D

For one

[Steve Bosell]

Originally Posted by macintologist 

Coldplay?

The White Stripes?

The Strokes?

Sure, those are good bands, not comparable in terms of ground breaking to a Led Zeppelin, or even Nirvana for that matter.

[macintologist]

Originally Posted by Steve Bosell 

Sure, those are good bands, not comparable in terms of ground breaking to a Led Zeppelin, or even Nirvana for that matter.

When a band is groundbreaking, that usually means that they created a new sound or scene that would be copied for years on.

At the present day how are we supposed to distinguish between what is groundbreaking and what isn't?

[Dakar²]

10 Years ago?

Hmmm... (Checks his iTunes)

Oasis and Blur are the only really good rock albums I have from that specific year.

But I also have Chemical Brothers, Moby, Portishead, The Prodigy, & Third Eye Blind in the non-rock arena.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by macintologist 

When a band is groundbreaking, that usually means that they created a new sound or scene that would be copied for years on.

At the present day how are we supposed to distinguish between what is groundbreaking and what isn't?

You can't see how a band revolutionizes music at that very moment.

[Steve Bosell]

Originally Posted by macintologist 

When a band is groundbreaking, that usually means that they created a new sound or scene that would be copied for years on.

At the present day how are we supposed to distinguish between what is groundbreaking and what isn't?

Like I said, everything present day is extremely derivative.

There was no doubt that when Nirvana came out "pop punk" was ground breaking.

[Railroader]

Let's not forget Pearl Jam. I think they influenced more artists than Nirvana.

[Dakar²]

Sure. Stone Temple Pilots affected a few as well.

[centerchannel68]

I feel that the grunge movement was great... because it was a reaction to the hairbands and over commercialized crap of the 80s. Then, the grunge movement kinda grew up, and now we have a bunch of 'pretty' bands again, where the lead singer must be hot to be successful.

I think it sucks. I feel that I lived through one of the best music periods ever, during the grunge movement, because of this.

[kc311v2]

Beck
Green Day
Lenny Kravitz
Red Hot Chili Peppers
The Smashing Pumpkins

I'm pretty confident they had an impact on rock today as well.
Then there were my favorites such as Cranberries, Republica, Sheryl Crow, Blur, Eels, Jamiraquoi, and Primative Radio Gods.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Steve Bosell 

Sure, those are good bands, not comparable in terms of ground breaking to a Led Zeppelin, or even Nirvana for that matter.

Audioslave.

[Dakar²]

But how many of those bands released stuff before 1997?

---

Primitive Radio Gods? That may well be the worst album I own.

(I'm not picking on your taste. I found it to be fine... minus that.)

[Doofy]

Rock music hasn't changed since 1989.

Other music masquerading as rock and tagged as such by say, computer geeks, has changed.

[zro]

'97 for me was:

Blonde Redhead - Fake Can Be Just As Good
Deerhoof - The Man, The King, The Girl
House Of Large Sizes - Glass Cockpit
KARP - Self Titled LP
The Kent 3 - Burl Ives (ep)
The Resonars - So Below (7")
Shonen Knife - Brand New Knife


'06 (too early to do this year) was:

Alice Donut - Fuzz
Shonen Knife - Genki Shock

[SpaceMonkey]

Steve, are you trying to say that Led Zeppelin wasn't derivative?

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by zro 

'97 for me was:

Blonde Redhead - Fake Can Be Just As Good
Deerhoof - The Man, The King, The Girl
House Of Large Sizes - Glass Cockpit
KARP - Self Titled LP
The Kent 3 - Burl Ives (ep)
The Resonars - So Below (7")
Shonen Knife - Brand New Knife


'06 (too early to do this year) was:

Alice Donut - Fuzz
Shonen Knife - Genki Shock

Mother of god, I haven't heard of any of them.

[SpaceMonkey]

"Rock" albums from my own iTunes 1997 list that are still memorable and stand out as better versions of what was otherwise typical of the genre in the late '90s, IMO:

Ben Folds Five Whatever and Ever Amen
Ben Harper, The Will To Live
Chumbawamba, Tubthumper
Everclear, So Much For The Afterglow
Foo Fighters, The Colour and the Shape
Our Lady Peace, Clumsy
Radiohead, OK Computer
Third Eye Blind, Third Eye Blind

[MaxPower2k3]

As SpaceMonkey mentioned in his list, Radiohead released OK Computer in 1997. That's good enough for me. Not much else from 1997 in my library, except the Super Furry Animals' "Radiator" which is also quite good.

[macintologist]

Is there a script that will scan your iTunes library and tack on the years for each respective song?

[Steve Bosell]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

Steve, are you trying to say that Led Zeppelin wasn't derivative?

I realize half the stuff on their first album was someone else's, regardless they were groundbreaking. I have also heard the song that Jimmy Paged lifted Stairway to heaven from.

Everclear, you are joking right?

[zro]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

Mother of god, I haven't heard of any of them.

Except for The Resonars, I'm surprised. But I was more surprised to find them in the iTMS.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Jebus people, come on.

The past few years have seen to rise of the indie rockers into mainstream status – bands like Death Cab, Modest Mouse, The Notwist, Arcade Fire, etc. coming to the forefront even though many have had years of hard work behind them. These bands have often been characterized as "noise bands" to some extent – clean, polished production has increasingly become uncool, and a raw, edgier cacophonous sound has taken over.

As well, the past few years saw the rise of a Canadian–Montreal that dominated much of this music scene – Broken Social Scene, Stars, Metric, Wolf Parade, Arcade Fire, New Pornagraphers, etc. have all had genre-defining and influential albums in the new millenium.

As for the mainstream rock...well, I can't say. Someone happened to mention Audioslave, and I almost threw up in my own mouth. Worst. Band. Evar, without a doubt.

But, I can sing every one of those first songs mentioned. Damn, I'm good.

greg

[Steve Bosell]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

J

As well, the past few years saw the rise of a Canadian–Montreal that dominated much of this music scene – Broken Social Scene, Stars, Metric, Wolf Parade, Arcade Fire, New Pornagraphers, etc. have all had genre-defining and influential albums in the new millenium.

We are doomed.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by Steve Bosell 

We are doomed.

Why? They're all great bands, with great albums.

greg

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Rock music hasn't changed since 1989.

Other music masquerading as rock and tagged as such by say, computer geeks, has changed.

I think we have a case of mistaken genres.

What is called rock has (mostly) always been derivative and unoriginal. That crap they call rock is merely to differentiate between the pop garbage on the radio by "singers" and "groups" and the pop garbage on the radio by people who actually play instruments. This so-called music changes with the tides just like the rest of popular music.

Led Zeppelin wasn't rock…they were Hard Rock/Heavy Metal. They don't even belong in the same category as Matchbox 20 or Collective Soul.

I would agree that Heavy Metal has changed little but Heavy Metal doesn't fall prey to market forces like Rock or Hard Rock.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Steve Bosell 

Like I said, everything present day is extremely derivative.

There was no doubt that when Nirvana came out "pop punk" was ground breaking.

Sorry but not only was Nirvana NOT Pop Punk, Pop Punk has been around since the mid/late 70's so it would have hardly been groundbreaking at the time.

Nirvana was influenced more by sludge metal, Hard Rock and traditional Heavy Metal bands (even Black Metal) than they were punk.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

I feel that the grunge movement was great... because it was a reaction to the hairbands and over commercialized crap of the 80s. Then, the grunge movement kinda grew up, and now we have a bunch of 'pretty' bands again, where the lead singer must be hot to be successful.

I think it sucks. I feel that I lived through one of the best music periods ever, during the grunge movement, because of this.

While anything that killed the Hair band nightmare is a good thing IMO, the era of "grunge" also ushered in the era of modern cry-baby rock.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

As for the mainstream rock...well, I can't say. Someone happened to mention Audioslave, and I almost threw up in my own mouth. Worst. Band. Evar, without a doubt.

Audioslave.

Take everything unique and interesting about RATM and all of Cornell's previous work and throw it out the window for public consumption.

Where IS that puke smiley?

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

Jebus people, come on.

The past few years have seen to rise of the indie rockers into mainstream status – bands like Death Cab, Modest Mouse, The Notwist, Arcade Fire, etc. coming to the forefront even though many have had years of hard work behind them. These bands have often been characterized as "noise bands" to some extent – clean, polished production has increasingly become uncool, and a raw, edgier cacophonous sound has taken over.

As for the mainstream rock...well, I can't say. Someone happened to mention Audioslave, and I almost threw up in my own mouth. Worst. Band. Evar, without a doubt.

Dude, if you like Death Cab and Modest Mouse, your musical taste stinks out loud.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

clean, polished production has increasingly become uncool, and a raw, edgier cacophonous sound has taken over.

If you don't think bands like Modest Mouse and Death Cab have clean, polished production then you don't know a thing about the music industry.

Maybe their guitar tones aren't clean and polished, but that's been the trend for years now. Even mainstream pop acts are using dirtier guitar sounds, but that doesn't have anything to do with the production.

[cybergoober]

I don't listen to very much "mainstream" rock.

Here's what I have in iTunes that's listed as having come out in '97:

Björk - Homogenic
The Cure - Galore - The Singles 1987-1997
Dream Theater - Falling Into Infinity
Foo Fighters - The Colour And The Shape
Incubus - S.C.I.E.N.C.E.
Megadeth - Cryptic Writings
Meshuggah - True Human Design
Pantera - Official Live: 101 Proof

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by zro 

Except for The Resonars, I'm surprised. But I was more surprised to find them in the iTMS.

Well, I'd be curious how you discovered them.

I get most of my new music from soundtracks, covers, and commercials.

[Dakar²]

I'm actually surprised no one mentioned the Killers or Franz Ferdinand.

[starman]

Rock has definitely changed since 1988. That's the point, for me, at which it pretty much died and was resurrected by grunge sh*t. To this day I still don't "get" Nirvana.

I went to see the Stones this year. How many bands from the 90's are selling out crowds at giant arenas? Take your time.....

Even Maiden sold out this year. MAIDEN!

What I said to my wife back then is that nobody remembers these bands anymore. They get heavy rotation for a while and then the disappear. Sure, the STPs and Audioslaves are around, but they're rare. Music from the 60s to the mid-80's are still some of the best music ever written. Morrison, Paige, Hendrix, Waters, NOBODY compares to people like that in the last 15 years. I dare anyone to say that Audioslave is even REMOTELY close to Pink Floyd.

I'm very disappointed with todays rock. I tried to like it but in the end I still listen to the classic stuff.

[Dakar²]

How many important bands from the 90s are even still together?

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by starman 

I went to see the Stones this year. How many bands from the 90's are selling out crowds at giant arenas? Take your time.....

The Dave Matthews Band. And usually they sell more than the Stones (last year the Stones had more dollar sales, but DMB had more ticket sales).

[Dakar²]

Yes, but the Dave Matthews Band doesn't rock.

[jokell82]

Neither do the Killers or Franz Ferdinand. What's your point?

[Dakar²]

You didn't get the joke. Don't worry about it.