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davidflas · 01:00 PM

I am trying to decide which on of these to get... MacMall has them both and they are only $5USD different in price.

2.3
pros:
16X DL Superdrive
250GB HD

cons:
slower cpus

2.5
pros:
faster cpus
faster videocard
geek cred associated with liquid-cooling systems

cons:
8X non DL Superdrive
160GB HD
Possibly less relible/louder due to liquid cooling system.

Obviously, I could add larger HDs and a 16X superdrive to the 2.5, I'm mainly worried about the cooling system in the 2.5, what does everybody else think?

mousehouse · Aug 6, 2005, 02:47 PM

i'd say go for the dual 2.3. the speed difference is less than 10% and for the same price you get the mentioned goodies. also, the 2.5 uses the liquid cooling which imho is just another add-on that can break and which will be expensive to replace.

G5man · Aug 6, 2005, 04:24 PM

well the 2.5 dual is cooler because of the liquid cooling system although Rev C I hear dual 2's have had problems but what about 2.3's?

davidflas · Aug 6, 2005, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by G5man

well the 2.5 dual is cooler because of the liquid cooling system although Rev C I hear dual 2's have had problems but what about 2.3's?

I just like the idea of the liquid cooling system, must be the geek in me. I've heard that it makes the G5 louder though, and maybe less reliable.... So, I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I know that the two machines are very close in performance, but 2.5 just seems faster to me because its a nice round number. I will use this machine mostly for photoshop and listening to music via iTunes. So I'm sure the 2.3 will be fine speedwise... but the 2.5 has some intangible charm for me...

G5man · Aug 6, 2005, 04:52 PM

well the G5 with liquid cool stays cooler than the G5's without

davidflas · Aug 6, 2005, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by G5man

well the G5 with liquid cool stays cooler than the G5's without

True, plus I think the 2.5 has a faster standard video card, I belive its a 9600XT while the 2.3 has a regular 9600. Either system will be a big upgrade from what I'm using now..(see my sig)

G5man · Aug 6, 2005, 05:19 PM

sure would

mousehouse · Aug 7, 2005, 02:03 AM

to me it seems highly unlikely that a 2.5 with the liquid cooling runs cooler than a 2.3. heat increases exponentially with clockrate and although I don't have the exact temperatures (probably been posted here somewhere) that 2.5 produces an incredible amount of heat. the 2.3 is the fastest one that can be cooled with just air, which is also why there is no faster chip in the xserve.

of course the liquid cooling has a very high geek-factor, and to me it is a perfectly legit reason to get one. i just think that if IBM and Apple could have prevented using it, they would never have put it into the Mac. it's just again something that can break.

ah, you'll be happy either way

Cadaver · Aug 7, 2005, 09:23 AM

My dual 2.5 is louder most of the time than my original rev A dual 2.0 was. Haven't had an opportunity to listen to a dual 2.3 in a quiet environment to see if they make any significant noise.

Oh, if you get a dual 2.5 and it comes with a Pioneer DVR-117A SuperDrive, it can be flashed to a 16x dual layer DVR-108... (use search to find the relevant threads). The main difference between a DVR-108 and the DVR-109 used in current-model G5s is the addition of 8x DVDRW writing (vs. 4x on the 108).

The 2.5's do come with a slightly faster stock video card (though neither are 30-inch capable). The 2.5's card also has an ADC connector; the 2.3's does not (two plain DVI ports). So, if you've got an ADC monitor, the 2.5 would save you the $99 price of a DVI/USB-to-ADC adapter box.

davidflas · Aug 7, 2005, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by Cadaver

My dual 2.5 is louder most of the time than my original rev A dual 2.0 was. Haven't had an opportunity to listen to a dual 2.3 in a quiet environment to see if they make any significant noise.

Oh, if you get a dual 2.5 and it comes with a Pioneer DVR-117A SuperDrive, it can be flashed to a 16x dual layer DVR-108... (use search to find the relevant threads). The main difference between a DVR-108 and the DVR-109 used in current-model G5s is the addition of 8x DVDRW writing (vs. 4x on the 108).

The 2.5's do come with a slightly faster stock video card (though neither are 30-inch capable). The 2.5's card also has an ADC connector; the 2.3's does not (two plain DVI ports). So, if you've got an ADC monitor, the 2.5 would save you the $99 price of a DVI/USB-to-ADC adapter box.

Thanks for all the info.. I plan to use it with a Dell 2005FPW display, so I won't need the ADC connector, I will most likely never go to two displays so it shouldn't be an issue.. I am seriously leaning towards the 2.5 right now..

Markarian421 · Aug 9, 2005, 02:26 AM

I can't bring myself to trust liquid cooling, especially liquid cooling made by a company I associate with cheap OEM auto radios. Just one more thing to go wrong. Honestly, I just got a 2.3 instead of a 2.7 because of that, I had the money for a 2.7, but liquid cooling just seems insane to me. But probably I'm the one that's insane. My car is liquid cooled and probably has several parts made by that same company.

budster101 · Aug 9, 2005, 02:28 AM

Get the Dual 2.3 / up the Ram / up the Video Card.. (Put your money where it will impact you best performance-wise)

What is so hard?

Link · Aug 9, 2005, 03:15 AM

Because for the same price you get a machine that's 200mhz faster, has a faster video card, and ADC capability (if you want it)!

The DVR-109 can be had for like $50 at newegg. That's a damn cheap part to pick a preference over!

mousehouse · Aug 9, 2005, 04:03 AM

but that 200MHz will probably be a negligible difference in real life, except when doing SETI or extensive DVD authoring. his main apps (PS, itunes) will run great on both...

budster101 · Aug 9, 2005, 04:04 AM

That was my point exactly. Put your coin where it can be used best... upgrade software?...

Link · Aug 9, 2005, 06:02 AM

Come now! 200mhz is 200mhz buddy, even then, you're gettting a 8% speed boost! PLUS upgrading the CPU is MUCH harder (and more expenisve) than tossing more RAM in the machine.

That said, You still have a better graphics card in the 2.5, plus (if I'm right) the machines cost the same anyway (and have the same amount of ram) -- so I don't get it, what's the big deal? Hard drives are pretty cheap ($100 will get you 250gigs IN ADDITION to the 160 that comes with the machine), and that superdrive is a quick swap for a faster one if you need it

So yeah, I guess I'm not that worried about it myself. If I were doing this I'd grab the 2.5, even with the watercooling rig. You'll always have the option to get the 3 year warranty if you're really concerned about the cooling system.

Hrm, looks like the DP2.3 costs a bit less than the DP2.5. In that case, just weigh it out

If the DP2.5 costs more than 8%, more, forget it

Err.. wait.. you're buying through retail not apple edu.. at $5 I'd definitely grab the DP2.5, good luck either way

davidflas · Aug 9, 2005, 06:43 AM

About the edu prices..... I am a full-time college student so I'm eligible for them. However, I find that edu makes no sense unless I was planning to buy a bto machine. I say this because where I live, the edu price + sales tax charged by Apple > the retail price from MacMall, etc.... + shipping. Of course if Macmall, etc.. charged sales tax the situation would be different.

mousehouse · Aug 9, 2005, 07:28 AM

200MHz is 200MHZ agreed. But you will only notice the 8% improvement when your application is CPU bound, which it usually isn't for 'normal' Photoshop and iTunes work...

On the MacMall site I cannot determine if the DP2.5 is a refurbished model or new.... if it's a new one I might be tempted to go that route (if it were my decision to make)...

davidflas · Aug 9, 2005, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by mousehouse

200MHz is 200MHZ agreed. But you will only notice the 8% improvement when your application is CPU bound, which it usually isn't for 'normal' Photoshop and iTunes work...

On the MacMall site I cannot determine if the DP2.5 is a refurbished model or new.... if it's a new one I might be tempted to go that route (if it were my decision to make)...

The 2.5 on the MacMall site is a brand new unit that is leftover from when the 2.7s showed up. Yes, I know that I will only see an 8% improvement in speed over the 2.3, I guess for me I comes down the the geek factor of liquid cooling and the fact that 2.5 just seems much faster. Its much the same as they way vendors sell a product for $999 vs $1000, small difference it just seems like a lot. If MacMall still has some 2.5s left when I get my money ready, I'll probably buy a 2.5 and upgrade the superdrive later.....

doublep · Aug 9, 2005, 07:50 AM

I have a DP 2.3 Ghz with 4 Go RAM and 2x250 Go of disk drives. I am very happy with it and am constantly surprised at how silent it actually is. In use, I actually hear it less than my 12" Powerbook! (Granted, the PB is ON the desk, while the PM is UNDER the desk).

mousehouse · Aug 9, 2005, 07:50 AM

new, [insert Homer sounds] hmmmmmm nice!

after giving it some more thought i'd still go for the DP2.3. for me personally it gets the job done and i just love to get a machine delivered that's just right (with the BTO video, Bluetooth/Airport and modem) and doesn't have any components that can break or are complex and expensive to replace (grapejuice cooling).

davidflas · Aug 9, 2005, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by mousehouse

new, [insert Homer sounds] hmmmmmm nice!

after giving it some more thought i'd still go for the DP2.3. for me personally it gets the job done and i just love to get a machine delivered that's just right (with the BTO video, Bluetooth/Airport and modem) and doesn't have any components that can break or are complex and expensive to replace (grapejuice cooling).

Looks like we're going to order our G5s at about the same time, Mousehouse

I had to cheap out and buy the Dell 20.1 monitor though....

I can't wait to get it, iPhoto5 takes sooooooooo long to open on my current machine..

mousehouse · Aug 9, 2005, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by davidflas

Looks like we're going to order our G5s at about the same time, Mousehouse

I had to cheap out and buy the Dell 20.1 monitor though....

I can't wait to get it, iPhoto5 takes sooooooooo long to open on my current machine..

hahaha, iPhoto performance is terrible on my machine - although it improved considerably when I upgraded to 1GB RAM about three weeks ago. Opening Dashboard is slower than opening safari and doing a google search.

I've been wanting to get a G5 for as long as they've been out. Here in Europe the price difference between the Dell 20" and Apple's ACD is not that big which makes me go the Apple way for the nice optical integration. Haven't found a reliable store that still carries the DP2.5, the DP2.3 will do fine for me.

Good luck on your purchase but I'm sure you'll enjoy every second of it considering your current machine

Todd Madson · Aug 9, 2005, 05:38 PM

Speaking as a person who ran into the same dilemma you did, I ended up getting a
dual 2.5. I considered a dual 2.7 but they sold me my dual 2.5 for the same price as
a dual 2.3 and they added three years of Applecare (which negates any concerns with
regards to the liquid cooling system) for free to boot. It was a no brainer at that point.

davidflas · Aug 9, 2005, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by Todd Madson

Speaking as a person who ran into the same dilemma you did, I ended up getting a
dual 2.5. I considered a dual 2.7 but they sold me my dual 2.5 for the same price as
a dual 2.3 and they added three years of Applecare (which negates any concerns with
regards to the liquid cooling system) for free to boot. It was a no brainer at that point.

Where did you buy your 2.5?

elvis2000 · Aug 10, 2005, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by davidflas

I just like the idea of the liquid cooling system, must be the geek in me. I've heard that it makes the G5 louder though, and maybe less reliable.... So, I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I know that the two machines are very close in performance, but 2.5 just seems faster to me because its a nice round number. I will use this machine mostly for photoshop and listening to music via iTunes. So I'm sure the 2.3 will be fine speedwise... but the 2.5 has some intangible charm for me...

I'd get the 2.5. Then you can say you have a liquid-cooled computer. The Superdrive and HD are non-issues, and could be upgraded later! But don't you get excited thinking about liquid cooling?

elvis2000 · Aug 10, 2005, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by davidflas

About the edu prices..... I am a full-time college student so I'm eligible for them. However, I find that edu makes no sense unless I was planning to buy a bto machine. I say this because where I live, the edu price + sales tax charged by Apple > the retail price from MacMall, etc.... + shipping. Of course if Macmall, etc.. charged sales tax the situation would be different.

Better deal on Apple Care... plus you get the free iPod Mini right now.

Todd Madson · Aug 10, 2005, 01:47 PM

I bought my machine from a Micro Center in St. Louis Park, Minnesota. Don't know if they
have any more dual 2.5s, they're starting to get a little on the scarce side.

davidflas · Aug 10, 2005, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by elvis2000

I'd get the 2.5. Then you can say you have a liquid-cooled computer. The Superdrive and HD are non-issues, and could be upgraded later! But don't you get excited thinking about liquid cooling?

Yes, liquid cooling is very exciting!!! If I do get Applecare, It'll have to be down the road a bit as I'm maxing my finances just to get the Powermac. I plan to up the RAM, ASAP, then the superdrive and video card sometime down the road. I'm sure that the the stock video cards in either the 2.3 or the 2.5 will hold me for a while, I don't game much.

jhogarty · Aug 10, 2005, 05:03 PM

I got the 2.5 and 23" ACD as refurbed. Saved enough to pick up the Applecare and get some more RAM.

J.

Todd Madson · Aug 10, 2005, 05:18 PM

And? Your impressions?

davidflas · Aug 10, 2005, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by jhogarty

I got the 2.5 and 23" ACD as refurbed. Saved enough to pick up the Applecare and get some more RAM.

J.

Not that much of a difference for me. A refurb 2.5 from Apple costs $2488.66 when tax is added to the price, while I can get a new 2.5 from MacMall for a total cost of 2499.00. Of course with refurbs there's always the chance that the specs will be better than advertised... But I really like fresh out of the box computers whenever possible...

jhogarty · Aug 11, 2005, 12:29 PM

Todd - not sure if you were asking me, but I'll answer. :-)

I love it! I especially love when I have people over at the house and show them the unit (sits on my desk) and the display. They don't want to leave. And wives hate me. Because now the men want to upgrade/buy a computer like mine. :-)

I've always liked to dabble in graphics work, though I don't do it for a living. What a pleasure it is to work on my new Mac in Photoshop, Lightwave, Illustrator, etc. Thinking back on all the computers and platforms I've used/owned I think OS X has given me the best user experience.

Hi, my name is J and I'm a switcher.
{audience} Hi J!

My only issue right now is that I don't have the funds to switch out of my home server (to a Mac Mini) and my laptop (to a Powerbook).

J.

Todd Madson · Aug 11, 2005, 01:15 PM

I have similar reactions....in one way different though - the wives want one too. Heh.

Eriamjh · Aug 14, 2005, 06:53 PM

My vote is for the 2.5. You need all the power you can get.

power142 · Aug 14, 2005, 07:09 PM

If you're going to buy Applecare before the end of the first year of ownership then I don't see that you have a lot to lose in getting the 2.5DP at those prices. I've had mine almost a year and I'm really pleased with the way it doesn't make a fuss through these warm summer days... it keeps itself whisper quiet most of the time

Salty · Aug 15, 2005, 02:11 AM

Go with the Dual 2.5... and just be happy

mousehouse · 07:03 AM

agreed, unless the difference in noiselevel between de DP2.3 and DP2.5 is comparable to the difference in noiselevel between a Segway and an F18 fighter jet...

davidflas · Aug 16, 2005, 09:54 AM

I think that I've settled on the 2.5, thanks for your feedback

I just need to wait for my next paycheck, and the G5 will be on its way to me.. I'll post some pics in this thread when I get it ...

Todd Madson · Aug 16, 2005, 04:36 PM

Speaking of which, I also need to take some shots of mine. I've had it over a month
now. I guess it's a permanent install.

You'll enjoy it, the speed is great and you'll notice it in all kinds of places. The fact that
it is expandable also helps.

webmonkie · Aug 24, 2005, 01:56 PM

I had the same dilemma 2 months ago. I went for the 2.5 DP because of the better video card and the CPU. In the long run that 10% will make a difference when the machine is 2 years old. Plus I upgraded the ram to 4.5gigs.

I'm very happy with the machine.

John O'Shaughnessy · Sep 7, 2005, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by davidflas

I think that I've settled on the 2.5, thanks for your feedback

I just need to wait for my next paycheck, and the G5 will be on its way to me.. I'll post some pics in this thread when I get it ...

Did you order yet?

I'm chewing on a similar decision.

I think there is a good chance I'll get a second monitor. If I go with the 2.5, I understand I can use a $30.00 cable to connect from the ADC Connector to a DVI monitor, such as the Dell 20.1 wide display. Is that your understanding? So I could then drive two of them, correct?

Since I need a modem (yes, quaint, I know, but I do sent 10-15 faxes a year), that is another plus in favor of the 2.5 since the modem has gone optional in the latest round.

John

Todd Madson · Sep 9, 2005, 11:23 AM

Puzzled. The 9600 XT that was installed in my G5 when I bought it had two DVI connectors already
on it, so two DVI monitors could be utilized. The machine also came with a DVI to VGA adapter as
well. I suppose I should try the two monitor thing someday.

And yes, the 2.5 does have a modem though I've never needed it.

John O'Shaughnessy · Sep 9, 2005, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Todd Madson

Puzzled. The 9600 XT that was installed in my G5 when I bought it had two DVI connectors already
on it, so two DVI monitors could be utilized. The machine also came with a DVI to VGA adapter as
well. I suppose I should try the two monitor thing someday.

And yes, the 2.5 does have a modem though I've never needed it.

Odd -- are you sure it's two DVI ports? Could they have swapped video vards on you with a standard 9600?

While I intend to get a new DVI monitor, one of the reasons I'm considering the Dual 2.5 is that I have a wonderful 17" Apple Studio Display with the ADC connector. It'll hold me until I purchase a new display, if I get the Mac first.

John

davidflas · 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by John O'Shaughnessy

Did you order yet?

I'm chewing on a similar decision.

I think there is a good chance I'll get a second monitor. If I go with the 2.5, I understand I can use a $30.00 cable to connect from the ADC Connector to a DVI monitor, such as the Dell 20.1 wide display. Is that your understanding? So I could then drive two of them, correct?

Since I need a modem (yes, quaint, I know, but I do sent 10-15 faxes a year), that is another plus in favor of the 2.5 since the modem has gone optional in the latest round.

John

I did in fact order my 2.5 and it arrived via UPS at 8pm last night! I forgot to order an airport extreme card, so I couldn't go online.....until now

I have installed the RAM, Pioneer 109, and airport card and am very happy!!!! I'll post some photos later tonight..... My 9600XT has one DVI and one ADC port, with a dvi to vga converter included. I bought my 2.5 from MacMall, and will end up paying $2349.00USD with free shipping after rebate. Today I noticed they've sweetened the deal so now the final price for the G5 will be $2299.00. Seems like a great deal to me!

PS after 5 years I'm finally addicted to macnn

Photos as promised:

fans out to install RAM, Pioneer Superdrive, and airport card:

quick shot showing desk and Dell LCD no time to pretty it up for the shot as I"m moving to a new house in 2 weeks:

osxisfun · Sep 9, 2005, 03:21 PM

John O'Shaughnessy · Sep 9, 2005, 04:03 PM

Very Cool!

Did you also get the "free" 1 GB RAM with installation fee? If so, how much additional time did that tack on to your order? If you go through the Cart process it suggests you phone to check on time.

Thanks,

John

power142 · Sep 9, 2005, 04:08 PM

Congratulations! Enjoy your new Mac

Also remember that if you feel the urge to have two DVI displays connected, you can just use the $29 ADC->DVI connector (my G5 has a 9600XT with ADC+DVI also)

davidflas · 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by John O'Shaughnessy

Very Cool!

Did you also get the "free" 1 GB RAM with installation fee? If so, how much additional time did that tack on to your order? If you go through the Cart process it suggests you phone to check on time.

Thanks,

John

I didn't get the "free" RAM as I feel that its too low density for my needs. I bought two 1GB modules from Datamem and they work great!

Todd Madson · Sep 9, 2005, 05:09 PM

Upon looking: yeah, one is a DVI port, the other is another funky looking digital style port so it must be
an ADC port I suspect then.