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Socially Awkward Solo · Jun 15, 2006, 11:47 AM

To me there is nothing shockingly wrong with it, it is just old and very inconsistent. The tabs at the top have been copied endless times buy Apple shareware developers and hardware knockoffs.

Most of all the site just doesn't look very modern and "Web 2.0".

Just look at this page
http://www.apple.com/aperture/

Notice how much wider it is than the rest of the site? I remember apple updated the homepage a few months ago for higher resolutions, a couple days later it was back to the old way.

My guess it the site will be redesigned when 10.5 is announced or ships.

Dakar · Jun 15, 2006, 11:49 AM

Yeah i think the tabs are the only thing that need modification. Aqua is dead to me.

Socially Awkward Solo · Jun 15, 2006, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar

Yeah i think the tabs are the only thing that need modification. Aqua is dead to me.

Aqua is too 90's for me. It should have died with the translucent colored plastics.

I'd prefer an nice slick black/dark gray theme or shinny white.

ajprice · Jun 15, 2006, 12:01 PM

Agreed, nothing really wrong with it, but it needs an update. The style of the tabs along the top isn't in 10.4 (I think) and will look older again with 10.5, but the way the tabs work (tabs along the top, submenus in the bar) is well done. The width thing was strange, they also made the front page black when 10.4 was released (I really liked that one, myself).

I think they are trying thngs out with what they have got, with the black, and the wide layout, and the Quicktime front pages. Something bigger will come when they have something bug to shout about, like 10.5 on a Mac Pro!!

forkies · Jun 15, 2006, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar

Aqua is dead to me.

well!

wow, i'm back under 1000 posts

Dakar · Jun 15, 2006, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by forkies

well!

Yeah, it happened after it borrowed my car, put a dent in it, and didn't tell me.

ink · Jun 15, 2006, 12:16 PM

Their fixed-width components are embarassing on a modern monitor. Look at all that wasted space; nothing is dynamically sized. It reeks of 90's table-based web design.

Dakar · Jun 15, 2006, 12:24 PM

You just don't understand using white space

Socially Awkward Solo · Jun 15, 2006, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by ink

Their fixed-width components are embarassing on a modern monitor. Look at all that wasted space; nothing is dynamically sized. It reeks of 90's table-based web design.

Well when viewing it on a PC with IE taking up the WHOLE goddam screen for a web browser just about everything looks like that.

greenamp · Jun 15, 2006, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by ink

Their fixed-width components are embarassing on a modern monitor. Look at all that wasted space; nothing is dynamically sized. It reeks of 90's table-based web design.

Dude fixed width is the new hottness. Elastic layouts are so 2000.

greenamp · Jun 15, 2006, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by forkies

well!

wow, i'm back under 1000 posts

Damn I lost like 300 posts as well. I demand a refund!

mdc · Jun 15, 2006, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar

Yeah i think the tabs are the only thing that need modification. Aqua is dead to me.

I agree that the tabs are the only thing that needs to be worked on. They were great when they came out, but now they've been copied to death, and I don't think that they fit in with the rest of the site.

I think the site should go something like the iLife pages. I really like those.

ink · Jun 15, 2006, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

Well when viewing it on a PC with IE taking up the WHOLE goddam screen for a web browser just about everything looks like that.

Not really. Look at MacNN, for example... in fact, the only other site I frequent with the same problem is boingboing.

And, no, fixed-width is not the new hotness; it's lazy web designers stuck in the days of dead-tree layout.

Targon · Jun 15, 2006, 01:02 PM

It's still perfectly functional for me. I see no reason to change it.

Socially Awkward Solo · Jun 15, 2006, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Targon

It's still perfectly functional for me. I see no reason to change it.

functional, yes. But so was OS8.

Dakar · 02:26 PM

...

Targon · Jun 15, 2006, 02:20 PM

Was it? Lol i remember getting my Mac OS 8 disk to update my 7.6.1 system, I booted from the frelling disk, it gave me an error and shut the machine down argh. ended up downloading a .smi image of it on the old 33.6k modem, took dayz haha.

But anywayz OS 8.5 was fine with the Techno theme, protected memory is all it needed... id still use it ;-)

davesimondotcom · Jun 15, 2006, 02:24 PM

I answered "Yes" here's why:

Although the current site is still very usable, it is at least 6 years old. (The general look/the tabs/etc.)

The Aqua look is dated. With Apple using so much black on the site, a black "bottom section" clashes with the Aqua.

But most of all, Apple needs to embrace standards. Valid XHTML and CSS aren't just a fad, they are necessary for the future of the web.

Didn't Apple have Zeldman consult on their site for a while?

I think it would be fine to keep the tabs, but give them a more up-to-date look, utilize a wider layout with some elastic qualities, upgrade the code to standard XHTML/CSS.

goMac · Jun 15, 2006, 04:35 PM

I like Aperatures theme much better than Aqua.

production_coordinator · Jun 15, 2006, 04:37 PM

The tabs... yes, the rest is OK in my book...

http://www.apple.com/ilife/

The above site looks fantastic (minus the tabs at the top). I think they are updating the areas as the product is updated. Makes perfect sense to me.

Salty · Jun 15, 2006, 05:25 PM

Really it's just the header that's super dated. Apple could update that to a more flashy iPod colourish theme and they'd be good to go.

Socially Awkward Solo · Jun 15, 2006, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Salty

Apple could update that to a more flashy iPod colourish theme and they'd be good to go.

Black and white? isn't it that now?

Cipher13 · Jun 15, 2006, 09:46 PM

The Apple website is bloody horrible nowadays with all of the flash movies or whatever they are... loading the Apple webpage on my iBook 900 lags the machine.

Way to go.

TheoCryst · Jun 16, 2006, 02:16 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

I like Aperture's theme much better than Aqua.

Fixenated™, and 100% agree. Aqua had its place, but it looks dated. Apple needs to finally put the bright colors and translucent thingies behind it. Sleek is in!

Obi Wan's Ghost · Jun 16, 2006, 02:46 AM

Originally Posted by Salty

Really it's just the header that's super dated. Apple could update that to a more flashy iPod colourish theme and they'd be good to go.

It's only the Aqua header they need to change. Maybe take a leaf out of iPod Hub's book ( http://www.ipodhub.net ) and make a big usable iPod screen on their site with real clickwheel navigation from our iPods!

Salty · Jun 16, 2006, 03:21 AM

Originally Posted by Obi Wan's Ghost

It's only the Aqua header they need to change. Maybe take a leaf out of iPod Hub's book ( http://www.ipodhub.net ) and make a big usable iPod screen on their site with real clickwheel navigation from our iPods!

Worst... idea... ever.

Obi Wan's Ghost · Jun 16, 2006, 04:33 AM

Originally Posted by Salty

Worst... idea... ever.

Why, explain? Why can't I plug in an iPod and control the Finder

I want an iPod with a laser underneath so I can use it for mouse functions too. Awesome

Obi Wan's Ghost · Jun 16, 2006, 04:35 AM

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

I think it would be fine to keep the tabs, but give them a more up-to-date look, utilize a wider layout with some elastic qualities, upgrade the code to standard XHTML/CSS.

A lot of the site is. The Aperture section also has Ajax.

Mastrap · Jun 16, 2006, 07:02 AM

I'd go for a gentle overhaul, not complete redesign.

davesimondotcom · Jun 16, 2006, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Obi Wan's Ghost

A lot of the site is. The Aperture section also has Ajax.

Went to the Aperture section. Not valid HTML 4.0.1 Transitional. And it's not just the tabs that are the problem, they use all sorts of non-standard code in the more modern bottom section.

The CSS is complex and non-standard as well.

I'm realistic though, I realize the Apple site is HUGE and a redesign is a gigantic task, but I would love for them to push the standards.

Before Apple's current layout, tabs were fairly rare. They became commonplace. Would be nice if they "revolutionized" it all again.

Obi Wan's Ghost · Jun 16, 2006, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

Went to the Aperture section. Not valid HTML 4.0.1 Transitional. And it's not just the tabs that are the problem, they use all sorts of non-standard code in the more modern bottom section.

HTML 4.01 is the Aqua tabs they use at the top as the header for the site. The rest of it is XHTML 1.1 PHP includes.

The Aperture page makes extensive use of these two lovelies

<script src="http://wdirect.apple.com/main/js/scriptaculous/prototype.js" type="text/javascript"></script>
<script src="http://wdirect.apple.com/main/js/scriptaculous/scriptaculous.js" type="text/javascript"></script>

davesimondotcom · Jun 16, 2006, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Obi Wan's Ghost

HTML 4.01 is the Aqua tabs they use at the top as the header for the site. The rest of it is XHTML 1.1 PHP includes.

The Aperture page makes extensive use of these two lovelies

<script src="http://wdirect.apple.com/main/js/scriptaculous/prototype.js" type="text/javascript"></script>
<script src="http://wdirect.apple.com/main/js/scriptaculous/scriptaculous.js" type="text/javascript"></script>

Making use of Prototype and Scriptalicious doesn't make it valid XHTML or CSS. There's tons of non-standard code in there.

Having XHTML includes doesn't change the fact that the declared doctype is HTML 4.01 Transitional (which is easier to validate than XHTML anyway.) The site still fails validation.

Obi Wan's Ghost · Jun 16, 2006, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

The site still fails validation.

You would be surprised how many major sites do. It's mostly us small designer guys who give a damn just because we want to impress out clients when the validator says its valid.

davesimondotcom · Jun 16, 2006, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Obi Wan's Ghost

You would be surprised how many major sites do. It's mostly us small designer guys who give a damn just because we want to impress out clients when the validator says its valid.

Nah, I wouldn't be surprised. But Apple should try to lead the way like Wired did three years ago...

Madrag · Jun 16, 2006, 01:41 PM

site lovely, but outdated!

I am very curious to see (whenever) an update, to see which way they'll go...

I hate the very wide pages...

Socially Awkward Solo · Jun 16, 2006, 01:56 PM

I just hate that there is NO consistency. Each section and product looks like it is another company or something.

davesimondotcom · Jun 16, 2006, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

I just hate that there is NO consistency. Each section and product looks like it is another company or something.

Yes, exactly. Which totally flies against everything Apple stands for as a company. (Well, except standing for brushed metal and unified and using them completely inconsistently.)

But look at Apple hardware and it's sleek, beautiful, full of features you wouldn't expect and overall very "clean."

The website should be the same. Innovative, sleek, clean, functional, beautiful.

MrsLarry · Jun 16, 2006, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar

You just don't understand using white space

Maybe they should make all the menu items RED, then it would really POP, don't you think?

davesimondotcom · Jun 16, 2006, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by MrsLarry

Maybe they should make all the menu items RED, then it would really POP, don't you think?

Definitely.

And they should make the logo bigger, too.

Kerrigan · Jun 16, 2006, 06:33 PM

I hate the way Apple puts quicktime videos on their homepage. That has to go.

Salty · Jun 16, 2006, 10:00 PM

WMV would definitely be much better!

TheIceMan · Jun 16, 2006, 11:12 PM

Or put the QT videos up, but don't play them automatically. I know you can set this under QT, but it's extremely annoying to open up a few webpages and have one play the QT video and you have to find out which one so you can shut the damn thing off. I hate that.

©öñFü$íóÑ · Jun 16, 2006, 11:33 PM

I -STILL- think Apple should have like a front page that lets people choose a "Lo-Fi" or a "Hi-Fi" version of the site... one for dial-up and/or slow computers..... and a "Hi-Fi" version for all the people who have fast machines and/or broadband. A potential customer would turn away if the site took too long to load for them........ especially with those Quicktime ads being embeded on the current front page.

(yes, i'm on dial-up..... and yes, i couldn't wait that long for the quicktime movie to load, so i left)

Madrag · Jun 17, 2006, 04:44 AM

I also hate the quicktime on the startpage.
It's annoying and I was very pleased when they introduced the macbook and ditched the I'm a Mac QT...

Now they've put other QT there, oh well