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FrontRow annoyances (Page 2)
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krove
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Oct 28, 2007, 09:17 PM
 
I'm annoyed that Front Row doesn't recognize Aperture. Ugh.

How did it come to this? Goodbye PowerPC. | sensory output
     
- - e r i k - -  (op)
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Oct 28, 2007, 09:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by thunderous_funker View Post
What is so hard about using iTunes to play music while you're running around and then checking email or showing a funny video or whatever else?

It has a nice full screen interface (especially with cover flow max sized) and it even works with your Apple remote.
Does it enable me to browse and select songs from my couch? Does it enable me to browse and select videos? Photos? iTunes is great, but it's no media centre.

The rest of your post does not warrant a reply.

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voodoo
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Oct 28, 2007, 09:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by .Neo View Post
Sure everyone who doesn't jump on the whine, moan and bitch about Mac OS X Leopard bandwagon is an Apple apologist. Why not.

We've even come to the point where members complain about the default way Apple has set up the Finder toolbar, although it's completely customizable. Gotta love that.
So when Apple removes arbitrary metadata from Spotlight searches it has some higher purpose that I just don't understand?

Fact is that Apple sometimes removes features at random and their decisions make no sense.

V
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thunderous_funker
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Oct 29, 2007, 02:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - View Post
Does it enable me to browse and select songs from my couch? Does it enable me to browse and select videos? Photos? iTunes is great, but it's no media centre.

The rest of your post does not warrant a reply.
You're right, its not a media center. But the functionality you're asking for is also beyond a media center. You want to stop browsing from your couch and start doing things like email or finding a video on the web. Well, Apple doesn't make that product. I'm not sure anyone does. Windows Media won't do what you're describing either.

So yes, Front Row doesn't do what you want. It is not a media center that you can minimize to the background to check your email or browse the web. Yes, iTunes is not a media center either. Congratulations on pointing out the obvious.

I've no problem with wish lists for magic apps that do everything you could ever imagine doing. Its a cruel world and we need more dreamers. But I think taking the stand that Front Row is total crap because of this minor quibble is pretty much indefensible. They improved performance and core usability. Period. What they seem to have lost, in your opinion, I would categorize well outside typical (or even intended) usage.

So Apple didn't design some way to minimize or pause FR usage to do something else with the computer (check email, browse web per your examples). Well, not yet anyway. I don't think that limitation outweighs the benefits granted by the new re-write--namely performance. Maybe you were caught up in the heat of the argument, but I read your posts as saying that the upgrade was a bust because of this limitation. I just don't buy that.
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- - e r i k - -  (op)
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Oct 29, 2007, 03:12 AM
 
What the hell are you talking about? FR1 did EVERYTHING I wanted. It was just slower and uglier. And by way of real world examples I have proved that it's not beyond normal usage whatsoever. Or are you saying that NO ONE wants to have music with their slideshows? Or that NO ONE would ever want to listen to music continuously both within and without Front Row?

Performance is great as I have pointed out a million times (this thread started out as FrontRow annoyances after all), but it has come with a penalty to it's actual functionality.

Why people want to argue the blindingly obvious is beyond me.

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thunderous_funker
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Oct 29, 2007, 03:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - View Post
What the hell are you talking about? FR1 did EVERYTHING I wanted. It was just slower and uglier. And by way of real world examples I have proved that it's not beyond normal usage whatsoever. Or are you saying that NO ONE wants to have music with their slideshows? Or that NO ONE would ever want to listen to music continuously both within and without Front Row?

Performance is great as I have pointed out a million times (this thread started out as FrontRow annoyances after all), but it has come with a penalty to it's actual functionality.

Why people want to argue the blindingly obvious is beyond me.
Going back through the thread it seems the argument went well beyond an annoyance and took the form of total rejection of the upgrade. If that's an inaccurate reading of your argument, my apologies. I've noticed that's a common pattern on this forum. The argument about hierarchical menus vs stacks is a good example. Now it seems anyone who prefers hierarchical menus is NOT supposed to install Leopard at all until its "fixed". Yeesh.

I agree with you on arguing blindly. Its that "all or nothing" approach so many of the topics here descend to that really amounts to that. If I'm guilty of taking it there by misreading you, again I apologize.

A way to pause or minimize FR to do something else isn't a bad idea. Its actually a pretty good one. Let's hope it shows up sooner or later. I'm not sure continuous music is a good default behavior, but a reasonable option. I'd rather it didn't do that. It'd be nice to have a choice.
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.Neo
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Oct 29, 2007, 04:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by voodoo View Post
So when Apple removes arbitrary metadata from Spotlight searches it has some higher purpose that I just don't understand?

Fact is that Apple sometimes removes features at random and their decisions make no sense.

V
I just explained to you, and others, how it does makes sense this time around. You just choose to completely ignore that.

Something massive like Spotlight has also absolutely nothing to do with the tiniest of details (especially compared to Spotlight) you and some others are complaining about.
     
analogika
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Oct 29, 2007, 05:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by .Neo View Post
That doesn't change the technical fact that it is it's own independent application, just like iTunes is, just like DVD Player, just like QuickTime Player. You just can't go around that.
The fact that Front Row 2 is broken BY DESIGN in a fundamental way doesn't mean it's not broken (music even switches off if I just leave the "music" menu to browse around or look into the settings or whatever - yay for multi-tasking!).

If it sucks the way it is, there is an EXCELLENT way to "go around that" - just make the Music bit a front end for iTunes again.

It's not like it's never been done.

Again, apart from the two points I agreed with above (which were *extremely* annoying in the setting of sitting in the kitchen with friends and using it to play music), it's a wonderful upgrade.
     
thunderous_funker
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Oct 29, 2007, 06:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
The fact that Front Row 2 is broken BY DESIGN in a fundamental way doesn't mean it's not broken (music even switches off if I just leave the "music" menu to browse around or look into the settings or whatever - yay for multi-tasking!)..
Here we are in agreement. After all, iTunes doesn't stop playing a song just because I browse other playlists. Is this just a quality miss or is there some technical reason FR can't do this?
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.Neo
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Oct 29, 2007, 11:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
The fact that Front Row 2 is broken BY DESIGN in a fundamental way doesn't mean it's not broken (music even switches off if I just leave the "music" menu to browse around or look into the settings or whatever - yay for multi-tasking!).
That's just a choice Apple made. There's absolutely nothing preventing them to make music continue playing even when you exit the Music section. It's also unrelated to discontinued playback when exiting Front Row.

Originally Posted by analogika View Post
If it sucks the way it is, there is an EXCELLENT way to "go around that" - just make the Music bit a front end for iTunes again.
Which is likely to result in the performance issues Font Row on Tiger suffered from. Overal I prefer keeping Front Row 2.0 as it is, rather suffering from low performance. Front Row 2.0 is just so much more responsive than it's predecessor it's not even funny anymore.
     
0157988944
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Oct 29, 2007, 03:24 PM
 
Basically, I'm going to have to change the way I use Front Row, and use it only for background music when I'm not using my computer. I.E. never.
     
analogika
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Oct 29, 2007, 06:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by thunderous_funker View Post
Here we are in agreement. After all, iTunes doesn't stop playing a song just because I browse other playlists.
In fact, you'll note that iTunes doesn't stop playing a song even if you switch to another *application*!

How brain-dead stupid would it be if it did?

*Exactly.*
     
analogika
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Oct 29, 2007, 06:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by .Neo View Post
Which is likely to result in the performance issues Font Row on Tiger suffered from. Overal I prefer keeping Front Row 2.0 as it is, rather suffering from low performance. Front Row 2.0 is just so much more responsive than it's predecessor it's not even funny anymore.
Fast but useless doesn't win me over, I'm afraid.

YMMV, of course.
     
Horsepoo!!!
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Oct 29, 2007, 07:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by adamfishercox View Post
Basically, I'm going to have to change the way I use Front Row, and use it only for background music when I'm not using my computer. I.E. never.
It would be wise. Front Row's utility is confined to people that want their computers to double as a TV or media center.
     
Horsepoo!!!
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Oct 29, 2007, 07:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
In fact, you'll note that iTunes doesn't stop playing a song even if you switch to another *application*!

How brain-dead stupid would it be if it did?

*Exactly.*
When you're exiting Front Row, you're not switching apps, you're quitting it outright.

Although Front Row could be considered an app (you could consider a lot of things as apps in Mac OS X, like Time Machine), it's not supposed to behave like an app. Front Row is supposed to separate you from the computer...it supposed to transform your computer into a media center.

If Apple had designed it as an app, you'd most certainly have a Front Row app icon bouncing in the Dock as you launch it, you'd most certainly have the entire Front Row interface within a window, and you'd most certainly see menu bar options related to Front Row while Front Row has focused. Because none of this is true, Apple is clearly telling you that this isn't something that is supposed to replace iTunes, iPhoto, QuickTime or DVD Player.

Thread over.
     
analogika
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Oct 29, 2007, 08:01 PM
 
What the hell is Front Row doing in the Applications folder if Apple hasn't, um, "designed it as an app"?

Just askin'...

(also, which part of "YMMV, of course" in the post above that did you fail to parse? You may look up acronyms and terms you do not understand on the intarweb for basic credit.)
     
Horsepoo!!!
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Oct 29, 2007, 08:02 PM
 
Exposé and Spaces aren't apps.

Thread OVER.
     
analogika
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Oct 29, 2007, 08:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! View Post
Although Front Row could be considered an app (you could consider a lot of things as apps in Mac OS X, like Time Machine), it's not supposed to behave like an app. Front Row is supposed to separate you from the computer...it supposed to transform your computer into a media center.
You know, all of that would make the slightest bit more sense IF THE DAMN THING HADN'T WORKED PROPERLY BEFORE!

We obviously have different Front Row usage.

The way it works now makes it COMPLETELY USELESS for music playback in any setting I'm likely to use it in on my MacBook.

THIS SADDENS ME.

It's WONDERFUL that it doesn't appear to bother you, and that you can come up with wonderful rationalizations why it's the way it is. The argument that "it's simply not possible" doesn't really work that well, because it WAS possibly up until a few days ago, apparently.

One (and a half) question(s): Do you actually USE Front Row? For music playback?
     
analogika
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Oct 29, 2007, 08:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! View Post
Exposé and Spaces aren't apps.

Thread OVER.
Why are they in my "Applications" folder then?

And what on EARTH do they have to do with basic Front Row functionality no longer being available in Leopard?

And what the hell is your point anyway?

That we're stupid to be annoyed by the removal of functionality that is essential to how Front Row was useful to us?

That we've somehow used it "incorrectly" all this time?

?
     
Horsepoo!!!
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Oct 29, 2007, 08:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
Why are they in my Applications folder?

And what on EARTH do they have to do with basic Front Row functionality no longer being available in Leopard?
What part of 'Thread over' can you not parse?

I don't use Front Row for music when I'm sitting at the computer. I use it for music when I'm sitting at the dining room table. Do you use Excel or Numbers as a database? Do you use Mail to write up a science paper? Do you use Address Book to store passwords?
     
analogika
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Oct 29, 2007, 08:11 PM
 
Your part in it.
     
Horsepoo!!!
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Oct 29, 2007, 08:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
Your part in it.
Hehe.
     
- - e r i k - -  (op)
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Oct 30, 2007, 12:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! View Post
What part of 'Thread over' can you not parse?

I don't use Front Row for music when I'm sitting at the computer.
Do you ever switch between listening to music away from the computer to listening to music while on the computer or vice versa?

It's hardly an uncommon thing is it?

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Spliff
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Oct 30, 2007, 01:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - View Post
6) Movie files not in iTunes does not get the resume feature.
Bloody hell, Apple! Why do you always screw loyal customers over by removing useful features? The resume feature was brilliant and I always found it handy. For instance, I could pause a movie I was watching, leave Front Row, check email or browse the web, return to Front Row, and resume watching my movie from the exact place I paused it.

Now I can't. I have to start from the beginning and scrub through to where I paused. WTF? Apple, you jackasses. Why would you remove functionality?

     
- - e r i k - -  (op)
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Oct 30, 2007, 01:26 AM
 
Why would they indeed? Or why would people rationalise it by coming up with excuses for Apple? The mind boggles.

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thunderous_funker
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Oct 30, 2007, 06:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - View Post
Why would they indeed? Or why would people rationalise it by coming up with excuses for Apple? The mind boggles.
While some might argue that these are design choices by Apple, I happen to think they are simply the natural result of changing the underlying function of FR. All of the behaviors that people are lamenting were a function of FR being a mere interface for apps running in the background. The new behavior is the logical result of it being a stand alone media player app.

Hence, if you exit, it stops what it was doing just like any other standalone app. The thinking seems to have been that making it a standalone app would yield the performance boosts that they apparently were keyed on.

All the other behavior could probably be put back in in futures updates. I fully expect some of them to show up quite soon. I really don't think (as some here seem to) that Apple deliberately set out to eliminate these previous behaviors.

"Gentlemen, FR has GOT to stop playing music when you exit. As God as my witness this horror will continue NO MORE!!!"

Seriously, they rewrote the whole frickin thing, it seems. They did it for performance. I'm ok with that. I'm also optomistic that some of the behavior you miss will be back because some of them are just common sense (like music continuing to play while you browse other sections).
"There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die." -- Hunter S. Thompson
     
analogika
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Oct 30, 2007, 11:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spliff View Post
Bloody hell, Apple! Why do you always screw loyal customers over by removing useful features? The resume feature was brilliant and I always found it handy. For instance, I could pause a movie I was watching, leave Front Row, check email or browse the web, return to Front Row, and resume watching my movie from the exact place I paused it.

Now I can't. I have to start from the beginning and scrub through to where I paused. WTF? Apple, you jackasses. Why would you remove functionality?

No no no - you've just been using it wrong!

See?
     
analogika
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Oct 30, 2007, 11:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by thunderous_funker View Post
While some might argue that these are design choices by Apple, I happen to think they are simply the natural result of changing the underlying function of FR. All of the behaviors that people are lamenting were a function of FR being a mere interface for apps running in the background. The new behavior is the logical result of it being a stand alone media player app.

Hence, if you exit, it stops what it was doing just like any other standalone app. The thinking seems to have been that making it a standalone app would yield the performance boosts that they apparently were keyed on.
"Striving to better, oft we mar what's well."

-Shakespeare.
     
besson3c
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Oct 30, 2007, 11:38 AM
 
Generally speaking it is always unwise to take away features... Witness iMovie. Maybe someday Apple will figure this out.

That being said, I'm wondering what sorts of benefits there were in using Front Row for playing movies in the first place, as opposed to VLC or DVD Player?
     
Horsepoo!!!
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Oct 30, 2007, 11:41 AM
 
The question is, how is the music supposed to continue to play when someone exists Front Row?

Is iTunes supposed to launch when you exit Front Row? In this scenario, you'll get a slight pause as iTunes launches and finds the song you were playing to resume the music where it had been stopped. In this scenario, you're making some users somewhat happy and pissing off another group of users that don't want iTunes to be launched. The latter group is probably larger since hardly anyone uses Front Row to replace iTunes or iPhoto. So this scenario is unacceptable.

Is iTunes supposed to launch in the background when Front Row is invoked? In this scenario, we're going back to the behavior of Front Row 1.x which some people here want but other people like myself find unacceptable. The outcome would be a smooth transition between FR and iTunes since iTunes would be handling the music playback. The result would be slow loading of music lists as iTunes must launch or is being tied up by some other tasks (syncing iPod, etc.) This scenario is unacceptable since we're back to the same frustrations people had with Front Row 1.x. Slow loading of music lists and unexpected behaviors when iTunes or iPhoto were acting erratically in the background.

Is Front Row supposed to be a background process that is always running (like Dashboard)? When you exit Front Row. music will continue playing without the need of iTunes. Of course, then you can't really control the music unless you go back into Front Row. And what happens if you launch iTunes? Will you have Front Row and iTunes simultaneously playing music? This would make little sense. This scenario is simply unacceptable.

Any other possible solutions? One that is acceptable?
     
Horsepoo!!!
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Oct 30, 2007, 11:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Generally speaking it is always unwise to take away features... Witness iMovie. Maybe someday Apple will figure this out.

That being said, I'm wondering what sorts of benefits there were in using Front Row for playing movies in the first place, as opposed to VLC or DVD Player?
Full screen, easy to read (at a distance) playlists, for people sitting on a couch or a dining room table or otherwise *not* sitting in front of the computer.

- - e r i k - - and analogika are using Front Row as a replacement to iTunes which makes zero sense. I understand the gripe about the music not being one nice continuous flow between iTunes and Front Row and vice versa but they're only gripes because of the context in which Front Row is being used. And they are faulting Apple for this.

The new Front Row behavior will not change to fit the requests of people wanting to use a screwdriver like a hammer.
     
.Neo
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Oct 30, 2007, 11:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
Fast but useless doesn't win me over, I'm afraid.

YMMV, of course.
I don't find Front Row 2.0 to be useless at all, so that's your problem really.

Originally Posted by analogika View Post
Why are they in my "Applications" folder then?
If I put a .pages document in my Applications folder does that automatically means it suddenly becomes a real application as well?

While Exposé, Dashboard, Spaces, and Time Machine carry a .app extension inside the Applications folder none of those packages actually contain the frameworks. It's basically an Apple Script that triggers the functionality of your choice, with a fancy icon of course. In essence it's little more than the "F" keys. Same applies to the Front Row trigger inside Applications, the real application is located in CoreServices.

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - View Post
Why would they indeed? Or why would people rationalise it by coming up with excuses for Apple? The mind boggles.
What's truly mind boggling is that you seem to have this enormous difficulty with accepting other point of views. Not everyone shares your vision of the world, or Front Row 2.0 in this case.

Btw about the resume feature: Front Row on Mac OS X Tiger did resume movies located in the ~/Movies folder. It really sucks Front Row 2.0 doesn't do that anymore. With a bit of luck they'll bring it back in a point release. This piece of software is still young.

Originally Posted by thunderous_funker View Post
Seriously, they rewrote the whole frickin thing, it seems. They did it for performance. I'm ok with that. I'm also optomistic that some of the behavior you miss will be back because some of them are just common sense (like music continuing to play while you browse other sections).
Actually I'm pretty certain the real reason is the Apple TV. Both the Apple TV and Mac OS X Leopard have Front Row 2.0 on them. The Mac OS X Leopard version just lacks YouTube access, but beyond that there are hardly any differences.
     
besson3c
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Oct 30, 2007, 11:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! View Post
Full screen, easy to read (at a distance) playlists, for people sitting on a couch or a dining room table or otherwise *not* sitting in front of the computer.

- - e r i k - - and analogika are using Front Row as a replacement to iTunes which makes zero sense. I understand the gripe about the music not being one nice continuous flow between iTunes and Front Row and vice versa but they're only gripes because of the context in which Front Row is being used. And they are faulting Apple for this.

The new Front Row behavior will not change to fit the requests of people wanting to use a screwdriver like a hammer.
It is Apple's fault. There is a "Music" section in Front Row, isn't there? What else would this be for? It is never the user's fault if their intuitive sense doesn't line up with what is being communicated, it is the communicator's fault. In this case, I think it would be very understandable that the Music section is an iTunes replacement. What else would it be?

As for your first sentence, DVD Player, VLC, and now Quicktime will do full screen now. I didn't think about using Front Row for music though, so thanks for hipping me to that.
     
analogika
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Oct 30, 2007, 11:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Generally speaking it is always unwise to take away features... Witness iMovie. Maybe someday Apple will figure this out.
Apple is the only company that actually seems to *know* this.

In fact, it's the reason they're so slow to add features to their iPod/iPhone lines.

The problem is a in the timing of a generation-switch: Introducing the new version late enough for it to be fairly feature-complete, but before the former product seems long in the tooth. This keeps observers on their toes and the competition guessing, while some of us suffer transitional feature-dearth.
     
besson3c
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Oct 30, 2007, 12:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
Apple is the only company that actually seems to *know* this.

In fact, it's the reason they're so slow to add features to their iPod/iPhone lines.

The problem is a in the timing of a generation-switch: Introducing the new version late enough for it to be fairly feature-complete, but before the former product seems long in the tooth. This keeps observers on their toes and the competition guessing, while some of us suffer transitional feature-dearth.
As much as it pains me to give Microsoft credit for something, they know this too, to a fault. Windows attempts to be very backwards compatible in terms of UI, like I said, to a fault.

Apple does pretty well for itself attracting the "new and shiny" gadget crowd, also to a fault. If Apple ever wishes to compete directly with Microsoft, they will need to understand the mentality of more conservative IT folk, for starters. "If it ain't broke" don't fix it does apply to the computer world as a whole, Apple often just masks this. Siracusa points out several good examples of this.
     
analogika
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Oct 30, 2007, 12:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! View Post
Full screen, easy to read (at a distance) playlists, for people sitting on a couch or a dining room table or otherwise *not* sitting in front of the computer.

- - e r i k - - and analogika are using Front Row as a replacement to iTunes which makes zero sense.
That statement makes absolutely zero sense.

In a way, you could say that we're using Front Row as an EXTENSION of iTunes, which makes perfect sense, and which is exactly WHAT IT WAS until four days ago.

We're just accustomed to a seamless flow between being at the keyboard and away from the keyboard.

The same way I don't expect my stereo to stop playing just because I open up a book.
     
analogika
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Oct 30, 2007, 12:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
As much as it pains me to give Microsoft credit for something, they know this too, to a fault. Windows attempts to be very backwards compatible in terms of UI, like I said, to a fault.
The big difference is that Microsoft throws in every goddamn feature any of their marketing and development department interns ever came up with.
     
Dakarʒ
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Oct 30, 2007, 12:06 PM
 
So if front row is its own app now, can you command-tab out of it?
     
Horsepoo!!!
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Oct 30, 2007, 12:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
It is Apple's fault. There is a "Music" section in Front Row, isn't there? What else would this be for? It is never the user's fault if their intuitive sense doesn't line up with what is being communicated, it is the communicator's fault. In this case, I think it would be very understandable that the Music section is an iTunes replacement. What else would it be?

As for your first sentence, DVD Player, VLC, and now Quicktime will do full screen now. I didn't think about using Front Row for music though, so thanks for hipping me to that.
I can see a lot of people have no clue why Front Row exists. Can iTunes, DVD Player, VLC and QuickTime give access to a list of movies or music in a format large enough to be seen from a distance?

Front Row is to be used in a very specific context: a computer that is strategically placed to act as a computer and double as a media center. If your computer is in a small office room and there's no other place to sit but right in front of the computer, you shouldn't be using Front Row. Just because it exists doesn't mean you *have* to use it. If the computer is in the living room (my computer is in the living room since I live in a small apartment) and the monitor can be seen from the kitchen, the dining room table or the living room couch. It's not uncommon for me to want to access music or an EyeTV recording that was exported to iTunes from a distance (it would be awesome if Front Row could show cooking recipes but that's another story). But because I need access to these things from a distance, I need an interface that displays text large enough so that I can pick the song or show I want from a distance. iTunes, DVD Player, VLC and QuickTime do not provide this.

This is possibly the last time I'm explaining this since I've been repeating myself over and over again to people that (purposely?) still don't understand. Purposely because I think - - - erik - - - and analogika don't want to admit that they're wrong when it's clear they are.

Unfortunately, people that use apps incorrectly will always exist. It's up to the developer to make the choice to either cater to these deviants or keep the app focused on their real goals.
     
Horsepoo!!!
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Oct 30, 2007, 12:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
That statement makes absolutely zero sense.
No, YUO make zero sense.
     
Spliff
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Oct 30, 2007, 12:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
That being said, I'm wondering what sorts of benefits there were in using Front Row for playing movies in the first place, as opposed to VLC or DVD Player?
Benefits?

1) The resume feature.
2) Crashes less than VLC (and Front Row was a crash-prone program).

I'd love to use VLC more, but it crashes all the time, especially with MKV files. Seriously, how long has it been in development? You think it'd be more stable by now. I tend to favour Mplayer over VLC.
     
analogika
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Oct 30, 2007, 12:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by thunderous_funker View Post
All the other behavior could probably be put back in in futures updates. I fully expect some of them to show up quite soon. I really don't think (as some here seem to) that Apple deliberately set out to eliminate these previous behaviors.
I don't think anybody ever claimed that.

My only problem is morons telling me that my annoyance stems from the fact that I'm somehow using it incorrectly, and that what made Front Row useful to me "makes zero sense" - somehow implying I'm stupid for appreciating functionality that fits in with the way I tick, and that is now sorely missing.

I mean, what gives?
     
besson3c
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Oct 30, 2007, 12:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! View Post
I can see a lot of people have no clue why Front Row exists. Can iTunes, DVD Player, VLC and QuickTime give access to a list of movies or music in a format large enough to be seen from a distance?

Front Row is to be used in a very specific context: a computer that is strategically placed to act as a computer and double as a media center. If your computer is in a small office room and there's no other place to sit but right in front of the computer, you shouldn't be using Front Row. Just because it exists doesn't mean you *have* to use it. If the computer is in the living room (my computer is in the living room since I live in a small apartment) and the monitor can be seen from the kitchen, the dining room table or the living room couch. It's not uncommon for me to want to access music or an EyeTV recording that was exported to iTunes from a distance (it would be awesome if Front Row could show cooking recipes but that's another story). But because I need access to these things from a distance, I need an interface that displays text large enough so that I can pick the song or show I want from a distance. iTunes, DVD Player, VLC and QuickTime do not provide this.

This is possibly the last time I'm explaining this since I've been repeating myself over and over again to people that (purposely?) still don't understand. Purposely because I think - - - erik - - - and analogika don't want to admit that they're wrong when it's clear they are.

Unfortunately, people that use apps incorrectly will always exist. It's up to the developer to make the choice to either cater to these deviants or keep the app focused on their real goals.

The point is, if you have to carefully explain the app's usage like this, this means that either its usage isn't as narrow as you are defining it, or else it was never clear and well-defined to begin with. Either way, it is Apple's fault.

It is never the user's fault for doing what seems intuitive to them.
     
Horsepoo!!!
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Oct 30, 2007, 12:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
The point is, if you have to carefully explain the app's usage like this, this means that either its usage isn't as narrow as you are defining it, or else it was never clear and well-defined to begin with. Either way, it is Apple's fault.

It is never the user's fault for doing what seems intuitive to them.
You're right...Apple should remove the Front Row launcher icon in Applications and remove any keyboard shortcut to launch Front Row. That way people will finally get a clue that you're only supposed to use it with a remote.

As for explaining the usage, it only seems about 3 people here need explanation...everyone else seems to understand clearly the purposes of Front Row. These 3 people probably also keep a list of contacts and phone numbers in Excel or Numbers spreadsheets and use TextEdit to write e-mails.
     
Dakarʒ
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Oct 30, 2007, 12:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! View Post
You're right...Apple should remove the Front Row launcher icon in Applications and remove any keyboard shortcut to launch Front Row. That way people will finally get a clue that you're only supposed to use it with a remote.
That's how it used to be. Now Apple let's everyone put it on their Mac regardless of if they have a remote or not.
     
besson3c
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Oct 30, 2007, 12:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! View Post
You're right...Apple should remove the Front Row launcher icon in Applications and remove any keyboard shortcut to launch Front Row. That way people will finally get a clue that you're only supposed to use it with a remote.

As for explaining the usage, it only seems about 3 people here need explanation...everyone else seems to understand clearly the purposes of Front Row. These 3 people probably also keep a list of contacts and phone numbers in Excel or Numbers spreadsheets and use TextEdit to write e-mails.

You don't know how many people use it this way, you are faulting the user again... Why? Do you feel the need to apologize on Apple's behalf or something?
     
Horsepoo!!!
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Oct 30, 2007, 12:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakarʒ View Post
That's how it used to be. Now Apple let's everyone put it on their Mac regardless of if they have a remote or not.
Yeah, because people moaned and groaned so much about it that Apple succumbed to the pressures. Same thing with Photo Booth. You have to use it with a webcam but it's available to everyone even if they don't have a webcam.
     
Horsepoo!!!
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Oct 30, 2007, 12:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
You don't know how many people use it this way, you are faulting the user again... Why? Do you feel the need to apologize on Apple's behalf or something?
I don't...in fact I don't give a **** about your problem. I'm just explaining that Front Row is being used incorrectly by some people here. I'm telling it like it is and I'm actually happy to see that it's causing some of you grief and pain since it will finally make you stop using it incorrectly.

You can't use the excuse that the user is never at fault...because then the developer would *always* be at fault. And since there's a lot of people out there, there's bound to be a number that will use the app incorrectly no matter how intuitive it is and no matter how clear the purpose of the app is.

What do you suggest Apple do? Remove Front Row from Mac OS X because it's being used improperly by a few people without a remote?

Apple was kind enough to give people without IR or remotes access to Front Row. I don't know why they did that but they did. But people shouldn't cry like babies if Apple is leaving it at that.
( Last edited by Horsepoo!!!; Oct 30, 2007 at 12:33 PM. )
     
Dakarʒ
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Oct 30, 2007, 12:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! View Post
I don't...in fact I don't give a **** about your problem. I'm just explaining that Front Row is being used incorrectly by some people here.
I don't think it's outside the realm of reason to expect to be able to check your email or something on the web or dashboard briefly when you're using Front Row without having to stop listening to music. You know, especially since you were able to do exactly that before.
     
besson3c
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Oct 30, 2007, 12:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! View Post
I don't...in fact I don't give a **** about your problem. I'm just explaining that Front Row is being used incorrectly by some people here. I'm telling it like it is and I'm actually happy to see that it's causing some of you grief and pain since it will finally make you stop using it incorrectly.
FIrstly, it's not my problem. Secondly, like I said, there is no "incorrect" use. If something seemed intuitive to a user and produced desired results, it was Apple's failings for not having conducted enough usability testing to have realized this.

Grief and pain? What's with the ideology? It's just a computer...
     
 
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