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Religiulous
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Jul 6, 2008, 09:05 AM
 
http://www.lionsgate.com/religulous/

Oh boy, this will be fun…

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OldManMac
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Jul 6, 2008, 09:40 AM
 
Will be high on my list to see, and I rarely go to the movies.
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
Tiresias
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Jul 6, 2008, 10:53 AM
 
Looks like fun.
     
Uncle Doof
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Jul 6, 2008, 11:08 AM
 
I think I'll stay home and polish some ladybits.
     
lpkmckenna
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Jul 6, 2008, 11:42 AM
 
guns, barrels, fish
     
stupendousman
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Jul 6, 2008, 04:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
Looks like fun.
Prejudice disquised as humor usually is!
     
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Jul 6, 2008, 04:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Prejudice disquised as humor usually is!
What makes you think it's prejudice?
Being in debt and celebrating a lower deficit is like being on a diet and celebrating the fact you gained two pounds this week instead of five.
     
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Jul 6, 2008, 05:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by smacintush View Post
What makes you think it's prejudice?
Yeah, I'd imagine anybody who cares enough about atheism to make a film about it has probably evaluated the religious alternatives. That would make it merely judgment rather than prejudice.
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Jul 6, 2008, 05:28 PM
 
Bill Maher is brilliant.
__________________________________________________

My stupid iPhone game: Nesen Probe, it's rather old, annoying and pointless, but it's free.
Was free. Now it's gone. Never to be seen again.
Off to join its brother and sister apps that could not
keep up with the ever updating iOS. RIP Nesen Probe.
     
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Jul 6, 2008, 06:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Prejudice disquised as humor usually is!
How true.


I do so love those types of interviews/discussions with atheists, but they seldom last more than 15 minutes. They call me "reasonable" and "thought-provoking", then get uncomfortable when I start probing their views and thoughts. An hour with Maher would be so much fun.
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Jul 6, 2008, 06:05 PM
 
Bill Maher is great.
     
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Jul 6, 2008, 06:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
Yeah, I'd imagine anybody who cares enough about atheism to make a film about it has probably evaluated the religious alternatives. That would make it merely judgment rather than prejudice.
As well, I'd imagine that anybody who cares enough about white supremacy to make a film about it probably has evaluated the social alternatives and as such that would be an example of judgment rather than prejudice as well.

Or not. I"m not sure how that logic makes much sense.

More to the point, when someone cares so much about their beliefs that they choose to make fun of the beliefs of others, usually it's the influence of prejudice and insecurity that causes it. It's not some kind of search for greater meaning or understanding.

I'm not saying that the film wouldn't be funny to a lot of people - then again there are lots of people who laugh at "n*gger", "homo" and "pollack" jokes. You know THAT sh*t is FUNNY!!!
     
Randman
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Jul 7, 2008, 12:02 AM
 
Bill Maher is still around?

This is a computer-generated message and needs no signature.
     
lpkmckenna
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Jul 7, 2008, 12:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Prejudice disquised as humor usually is!
     
Chuckit
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Jul 7, 2008, 03:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
As well, I'd imagine that anybody who cares enough about white supremacy to make a film about it probably has evaluated the social alternatives and as such that would be an example of judgment rather than prejudice as well.
Why would you imagine that? White supremacy generally has an emotional and cultural basis rather than scientific and logical arguments.

Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
More to the point, when someone cares so much about their beliefs that they choose to make fun of the beliefs of others, usually it's the influence of prejudice and insecurity that causes it. It's not some kind of search for greater meaning or understanding.
Insecurity? Maybe. Like the kind caused by recent presidents and current presidential candidates suggesting that atheists shouldn't be treated as equal American citizens? I suppose that might have something to do with why they feel compelled to respond.

If you feel the film is somehow treating you unfairly, you're free to respond to it. Tossing out strange accusations of prejudice — meaning that Maher is pressing an opinion without having thought it through — seems about as insecure and prejudiced (unless you're claiming to have seen the film) as anything Maher could do.

BTW, I'm not crazy about Maher. He seems like kind of a smug jerk. But is he prejudiced? I don't see how you could come to that conclusion. Where is this prejudice supposed to have come from?
Chuck
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Jul 7, 2008, 06:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
Why would you imagine that? White supremacy generally has an emotional and cultural basis rather than scientific and logical arguments.
You are making assumptions both on the white supremist, and the guy who decides it would be fun to belittle people expressing their first amendment rights.

Insecurity? Maybe. Like the kind caused by recent presidents and current presidential candidates suggesting that atheists shouldn't be treated as equal American citizens? I suppose that might have something to do with why they feel compelled to respond.
I don't remember this being the case. Please cite something for me. Simply mentioning religion in a speech or acknowledging the fact that most people in the US is religious does not apply.

If you feel the film is somehow treating you unfairly, you're free to respond to it. Tossing out strange accusations of prejudice — meaning that Maher is pressing an opinion without having thought it through — seems about as insecure and prejudiced (unless you're claiming to have seen the film) as anything Maher could do.
I never said it was treating me unfairly. I said that when people are so sure of their point of view that they start making fun of the point of view of others, that it's usually based on predjudice and bigotry. Bigotry is exactly the state of being so sure of your opinion that you show intolerance and unkindness to those whose opinions differ from you.
     
lpkmckenna
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Jul 7, 2008, 11:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
I said that when people are so sure of their point of view that they start making fun of the point of view of others, that it's usually based on predjudice and bigotry.
That's ridiculous. When I make fun of someone's opinions, it's because those opinions are so absurd that it's inherently hilarious.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Jul 7, 2008, 11:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Prejudice disquised as humor usually is!
Poor religious people. They have it so hard
     
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Jul 7, 2008, 01:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Poor religious people. They have it so hard
Not really. Though, they are one of the few groups where bigotry and intolerance towards them is often times celebrated, instead of derided.
     
Laminar
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Jul 7, 2008, 01:31 PM
 
Good soundtrack though. I rocked out to dcTalk's "Jesus is Still All Right" during the 90s.
     
paul w
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Jul 7, 2008, 01:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Not really. Though, they are one of the few groups where bigotry and intolerance towards them is often times celebrated, instead of derided.
Get over yourself. This isn't exactly the Spanish Inquistion. If you disagree you have every right to express that belief. Meanwhile last time I checked religion was doing just fine.

To each their own, live and let live.
     
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Jul 7, 2008, 01:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Not really. Though, they are one of the few groups where bigotry and intolerance towards them is often times celebrated, instead of derided.
One reason may have to do with the fact that throughout history, religion has consistently been used as a tool to control and/or eliminate other humans.... it doesn't have a very good track record.
     
Luca Rescigno
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Jul 7, 2008, 02:09 PM
 
I am offended that people use the word "atheist" as an insult or to imply that the person so described is somehow inherently bad. I am an atheist myself and there are Christians (not all Christians, but some) who would tell me that it's impossible to be an inherently good person if I don't believe in God. It's similar to an atheist telling a Christian that he can't be a smart person unless he doesn't believe in God.

The point is, religious (or anti-religious) beliefs are very personal and I don't think anyone should be going around parading how right they are (or worse, how wrong everyone else is). I am an atheist myself, but I don't go telling my Christian friends that they're weak or stupid. I don't think I'll ever fundamentally understand how someone could believe in God as presented in the Bible, but I can at least accept that doing so doesn't mean that person is stupid or incapable of rational thought.

I expect those around me to treat me with the same respect that I treat them. I don't go around asking if people believe in God and then laugh in their faces when they say yes. At the same time, I don't want Christians to come up to me and ask if I know about Jesus or anything. I do not care, and trying to convert me will never work no matter how hard anyone tries. Thankfully, I've hardly ever been put in the uncomfortable situation of having to stave off religious advances. But I certainly do see militant Christians and militant atheists in the popular media, and I have to say I'm equally unimpressed with both. Even though I agree with people like Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher, I still feel uncomfortable watching them attack religious people on the grounds of what they believe. It just doesn't feel right. I'm equally disgusted by similar attempts by members of any religious group. It doesn't matter if they agree with me or not. If you're going to attack someone, do it on the basis of something more concrete, like calling out a televangelist for greed and materialism despite the Bible's teachings that one should give away one's wealth.

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Jul 7, 2008, 03:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Randman View Post
Bill Maher is still around?
Nice try. Didn't work buddy. Wanna try again?

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Bill Maher is one smart funny guy.

This link from the movie preview is k0ol.

http://disbeliefnet.com/
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Jul 7, 2008, 03:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Not really. Though, they are one of the few groups where bigotry and intolerance towards them is often times celebrated, instead of derided.
Mostly when these poor religious folks are rallying to discriminate against other people such as gays. But yes... those poor poor people
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Jul 7, 2008, 03:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Randman View Post
Bill Maher is still around?
Funny, I was going to say the same about Christianity.
     
OldManMac
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Jul 7, 2008, 03:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Not really. Though, they are one of the few groups where bigotry and intolerance towards them is often times celebrated, instead of derided.
You don't know much about history, do you?
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
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Jul 7, 2008, 03:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
One reason may have to do with the fact that throughout history, money has consistently been used as a tool to control and/or eliminate other humans.... it doesn't have a very good track record.
or

Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
One reason may have to do with the fact that throughout history, politics has consistently been used as a tool to control and/or eliminate other humans.... it doesn't have a very good track record.
or

Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
One reason may have to do with the fact that throughout history, sex has consistently been used as a tool to control and/or eliminate other humans.... it doesn't have a very good track record.
etc. etc. etc...

Tell ya what, we'll just say that people will always use whatever they can to try and manipulate others. Singling out religion is being short-sighted.
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Shaddim
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Jul 7, 2008, 03:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
You don't know much about history, do you?
Seems that most of the people around here have impaired memories.
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analogue SPRINKLES
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Jul 7, 2008, 03:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Tell ya what, we'll just say that people will always use whatever they can to try and manipulate others. Singling out religion is being short-sighted.
I agree, there has never been a war or conflict because of religious beliefs. And even if there was gays and atheists are still the bigger concern.
     
Shaddim
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Jul 7, 2008, 04:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
I agree, there has never been a war or conflict because of religious beliefs. And even if there was gays and atheists are still the bigger concern.
As usual, your argument fails. Please point to where I said, "there has never been a war or conflict because of religious beliefs".

History proves that mankind is very creative in manipulating anything.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Jul 7, 2008, 04:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by paul w View Post
To each their own, live and let live.
Is that what someone making a documentary making fun of how some chose to live are doing?

Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Seems that most of the people around here have impaired memories.
I'm not talking about ancient history. I'm talking about NOW.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Jul 7, 2008, 04:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
As usual, your argument fails. Please point to where I said, "there has never been a war or conflict because of religious beliefs".

History proves that mankind is very creative in manipulating anything.
I don't need to make an argument, read the news today and look at all the problems religion is causing right this second.
     
Shaddim
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Jul 7, 2008, 04:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
I'm not talking about ancient history. I'm talking about NOW.
I need to clarify. By saying "some" I wasn't point at "you".
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Shaddim
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Jul 7, 2008, 04:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
I don't need to make an argument, read the news today and look at all the problems religion is causing right this second.
Really? In today's news, most of what I'm seeing is fuel price manipulation, political upheaval, and a local kid who stabbed his best friend to death over a girl (she was sleeping with both of them).

People commonly **** with each other, and they'll use anything handy.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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paul w
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Jul 7, 2008, 04:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Is that what someone making a documentary making fun of how some chose to live are doing?
Maybe (I haven't seen it), but what's the point in getting your panties in a twist over it? People make fun of crap I love all the time in the media - that's the way this big, homogenous society of ours works.

Again, lighten up.
     
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Jul 7, 2008, 05:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
money

or

politics

or

sex

etc. etc. etc...

Tell ya what, we'll just say that people will always use whatever they can to try and manipulate others. Singling out religion is being short-sighted.
Come on now, comparing religion to sex is just plain silly. Or do you mean gender? Anyway, I was just offering up one reason why many are quick to ridicule religion. I don't feel it's short-sighted to single it out. Many horrific things have been done in it's name throughout the ages. But that's the fault of man. It really comes down to the fact that humans are pretty awful creatures and for the majority on this planet, life is rather horrible.
     
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Jul 7, 2008, 05:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Luca Rescigno View Post
I am offended that people use the word "atheist" as an insult or to imply that the person so described is somehow inherently bad. I am an atheist myself and there are Christians (not all Christians, but some) who would tell me that it's impossible to be an inherently good person if I don't believe in God. It's similar to an atheist telling a Christian that he can't be a smart person unless he doesn't believe in God.

The point is, religious (or anti-religious) beliefs are very personal and I don't think anyone should be going around parading how right they are (or worse, how wrong everyone else is). I am an atheist myself, but I don't go telling my Christian friends that they're weak or stupid. I don't think I'll ever fundamentally understand how someone could believe in God as presented in the Bible, but I can at least accept that doing so doesn't mean that person is stupid or incapable of rational thought.

I expect those around me to treat me with the same respect that I treat them. I don't go around asking if people believe in God and then laugh in their faces when they say yes. At the same time, I don't want Christians to come up to me and ask if I know about Jesus or anything. I do not care, and trying to convert me will never work no matter how hard anyone tries. Thankfully, I've hardly ever been put in the uncomfortable situation of having to stave off religious advances. But I certainly do see militant Christians and militant atheists in the popular media, and I have to say I'm equally unimpressed with both. Even though I agree with people like Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher, I still feel uncomfortable watching them attack religious people on the grounds of what they believe. It just doesn't feel right. I'm equally disgusted by similar attempts by members of any religious group. It doesn't matter if they agree with me or not. If you're going to attack someone, do it on the basis of something more concrete, like calling out a televangelist for greed and materialism despite the Bible's teachings that one should give away one's wealth.

"Learn to swim"
     
Shaddim
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Jul 7, 2008, 05:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
Come on now, comparing religion to sex is just plain silly. Or do you mean gender? Anyway, I was just offering up one reason why many are quick to ridicule religion. I don't feel it's short-sighted to single it out. Many horrific things have been done in it's name throughout the ages. But that's the fault of man. It really comes down to the fact that humans are pretty awful creatures and for the majority on this planet, life is rather horrible.
Many horrific things have been done for just about any reason, religion isn't unique in this. I do agree, however, humans can be awful.
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Jul 7, 2008, 07:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Really? In today's news, most of what I'm seeing is fuel price manipulation, political upheaval, and a local kid who stabbed his best friend to death over a girl (she was sleeping with both of them).

People commonly **** with each other, and they'll use anything handy.
Methinks you should have a look at my signature.

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Jul 7, 2008, 08:06 PM
 
I always find the "live and let live" thing funny. Mostly I hear it from Christians who really mean, STFU, we don't want to hear what you have to say, atheist scum. For "live and let live" to exist, churches have to quit evangelizing, and the government has to shed all religious markings on currency, license plates, the Pledge of Allegiance, and laws. If we want to "live and let live", we have to give religion, or lack thereof, a neutral status. Otherwise, all we are really doing is silencing anyone who disagrees with the religious norm. The "In God We Trust" phrase being officially recognized and added to flags and license plates is really pissing me off. I've been seeing it almost daily on license plates as of late.

I had an argument a few weeks ago with a Christian friend of mine, who probably will never speak to me again, because I don't agree with his mission trip to indoctrinate young children into his religion. He told me he wished he could be an atheist because being a Christians sucks. I'll quote something thing he wrote in an e-mail to me.

He wants us to serve him and like it! Thus, there is an assault both on my status as a human being and my desire to serve my own ends as well as a personal demand on the affections of my soul. In other words, the Christian God says that the only way I can be saved is to completely invert everything about what would otherwise come natural to me.

So again, being a Christian sucks, but my diagnosis is that being a non-Christian sucks even more.
Perhaps things are different in different regions of the world, but here in the good ole Bible belt of the USA, this is what I'm surrounded by. When people like him are out walking the streets preaching this crap to impressionable children, I should be allowed to speak against it. "Live and let live" seems a little one sided to me. In fact, I'm finding it increasingly difficult to remain friends with people like this. Someone who is just a passive believer, I can follow "live and let live", but I just can't do it with the evangelistic people.
     
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Jul 7, 2008, 08:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by paul w View Post
Maybe (I haven't seen it), but what's the point in getting your panties in a twist over it?
My panties aren't in a twist. It's just funny seeing a lot of people who would be up in arms regarding most other forms of intolerance celebrating this form. I don't care any more for this than I do the idiots who hang out at the gas station telling "n$gger" jokes.

Really, I'm not losing any sleep.
     
Shaddim
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Jul 7, 2008, 09:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - View Post
Methinks you should have a look at my signature.
I'm bored with the apostle Dawkins.
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Jul 7, 2008, 10:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
I'm bored with the apostle Dawkins.


Signature, not link. Religion sure ain't causing any trouble these days. All ancient history.

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Shaddim
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Jul 8, 2008, 12:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - View Post


Signature, not link. Religion sure ain't causing any trouble these days. All ancient history.
I see you fail at reading comprehension too. Where have I said that religion "ain't causing trouble"?

Seriously, is this some type of atheist brain damage?
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Jul 8, 2008, 12:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah View Post
Aww, I'm glad someone noticed my post. I figure everyone else is too busy fighting each other to care, though. No one wants to hear a rational argument for why they shouldn't be fighting.

"That's Mama Luigi to you, Mario!" *wheeze*
     
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Jul 8, 2008, 12:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
I see you fail at reading comprehension too. Where have I said that religion "ain't causing trouble"?

Seriously, is this some type of atheist brain damage?
Do you really think you have the moral high ground when you talk like that? I don't think that kind of trolling will lead anyplace good, y'all.

Anyway, as for me, I think the movie looks possibly entertaining, but that's pretty much it (and that's with a big maybe). It's basically just preaching to the choir and stirring up a bit of controversy.
Chuck
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"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
     
Shaddim
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Jul 8, 2008, 12:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
Do you really think you have the moral high ground when you talk like that? I don't think that kind of trolling will lead anyplace good, y'all.
Let me review the thread.

reading my posts...

reading other posts...

Yes, I have the high ground, no trolling required.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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analogue SPRINKLES
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Jul 8, 2008, 01:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Really? In today's news, most of what I'm seeing is fuel price manipulation, political upheaval, and a local kid who stabbed his best friend to death over a girl (she was sleeping with both of them).
As if Fox News tells you what is really going on
     
Taliesin
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Jul 8, 2008, 07:02 AM
 
Shaddim is right on this one. Humans in power like to use whatever concept, idea, instrument, prejudice... whatever can convince as many people as possible to act in the way that furthers the goal of the humans in power.

In times where most people were religious, religion was the concept to achieve the most effect when instrumentalised. Today, at least in the western world, where most people are not religious any more, other concepts get instrumentalised, like democracy, capitalism, even freedom or science, it doesn't even matter what content the concept specifically has...

Taliesin
     
 
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