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German history is so embarrassing…
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andreas_g4
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Mar 21, 2006, 03:42 PM
 
A fun to read article about the David Hasselhoff incident. And I admit, I have no idea how it could come that far.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/inte...407072,00.html

I even learned that text of "Looking for Freedom" to annoy people - works everytime!
     
I Bent My Wookiee
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Mar 21, 2006, 03:51 PM
 
David Hasselhoff?

Nevermind the whole Hitler thing.

"Barwaraaawww"
     
NYCFarmboy
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Mar 21, 2006, 03:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by I Bent My Wookiee
David Hasselhoff?

Nevermind the whole Hitler thing.
exactly!
     
Monique
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Mar 21, 2006, 03:59 PM
 
Every country in the world has skeletons in its closets.

In Canada, the Native thing.

In the United States, slavery.

In Germany, the Nazi thing.

In France, the first revolution and the Nazi thing.

In England the India's thing.

Etc.
     
turtle777
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Mar 21, 2006, 04:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Monique
Every country in the world has skeletons in its closets.
In Canada, the Native thing.
In the United States, slavery.
In Germany, the Nazi thing.
In France, the first revolution and the Nazi thing.
In England the India's thing.
That is very true.

And unlike Germany, the US at large has yet to deal with slavery and almost extinction of the native Americans.

-t
     
Chuckit
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Mar 21, 2006, 04:17 PM
 
Uh, the US has yet to deal with slavery? Did you walk through a time warp from 200 years ago?
Chuck
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Monique
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Mar 21, 2006, 04:17 PM
 
If you look at the time frame of the German history, in a sense you cannot define the entire German history with 16 years of war (the first and second world war).
     
turtle777
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Mar 21, 2006, 04:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
Uh, the US has yet to deal with slavery? Did you walk through a time warp from 200 years ago?
I don't mean slavery directly, but with the outcomes.
And trust me, the US is NOT doen dealing with this.

-t
     
andreas_g4  (op)
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Mar 21, 2006, 04:43 PM
 
For un-convenience:

One morning in june some twenty years ago
I was born a rich man’s son
I had everything that money could buy
But freedom - I had none

I’ve been lookin’ for freedom
I’ve been lookin’ so long
I’ve been lookin’ for freedom
Still the search goes on
I’ve been lookin’ for freedom
Since I left my home town
I’ve been lookin’ for freedom
Still it can’t be found

I headed down the track, my baggage on my back
I left the city far behind
Walkin’ down the road, with my heavy load
Tryin’ to find some peace of mind
Father said you’ll be sorry, son,
If you leave your home this way
And when you realize the freedom money buys
You’ll come running home some day

I paid a lotta dues, had plenty to lose
Travelling across the land
Worked on a farm, got some muscle in my arm
But still I’m not a self-made man
I’ll be on the run for many years to come
I’ll be searching door to door
But, given some time, some day I’m gonna find
The freedom I’ve been searchin’ for
     
Dark Helmet
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Mar 21, 2006, 04:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by what_the_heck
I don't mean slavery directly, but with the outcomes.
And trust me, the US is NOT doen dealing with this.

-t
I think you mean the US has a problem with Racism not slavery??

"She's gone from suck to blow!"
     
turtle777
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Mar 21, 2006, 04:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dark Helmet
I think you mean the US has a problem with Racism not slavery??
Yes. I should have made that connection more clear.

-t
     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
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Mar 21, 2006, 05:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by what_the_heck
I don't mean slavery directly
Yeah, 'directly' we can go straight to the source- Europeans that conquered the ENTIRE continent. (Not to mention much of the rest of the world as well.)

Enough of this bullcrap acting like Slavery was just an American problem that occured in a bubble. EVERYBODY had their hands in it, and none more than European Imperialists.

Europeans were still the slave masters of the entire continent long after the era of US slavery. The Belgians alone managed in just a few years to kill more people in the Congo by several orders of magnitude than were ever shipped to North America as slaves. Talk about something that has yet to be dealt with.

No, America isn't innocent, but I'm sick of people acting like America'is soley responsible for slavery and for ****ing up the African continent and contributing the most to the downtrodden status of black Africans- look who was still actively ****ing up and enslaving Africa long after we'd ended our end of the slave trade, most whom have YET to own up to all that they perpetrated.

     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
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Mar 21, 2006, 05:04 PM
 
dp.
     
angelmb
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Mar 21, 2006, 05:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Monique
Every country in the world has skeletons in its closets.

(…)
Spain - bullfighters… what a bunch of suckers.
     
turtle777
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Mar 21, 2006, 05:32 PM
 
Yeah, nice derail, Crash HD.

The point is: nowhere else in the Western world has racial segregation continued for so long. The US STILL has a huge problem with racism. I don't think that's true for Belgium or Germany.

-t
( Last edited by turtle777; Mar 21, 2006 at 05:53 PM. )
     
andreas_g4  (op)
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Mar 21, 2006, 06:00 PM
 
Guys, remember, this is a thread that contains information about David Hasselhoff, it cannot get too serious.

So let's lighten a bit up. "Looking for Freedom" is not on iTMS. Bummer.
     
Timo
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Mar 21, 2006, 07:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by andreas_g4
Guys, remember, this is a thread that contains information about David Hasselhoff, it cannot get too serious.

So let's lighten a bit up. "Looking for Freedom" is not on iTMS. Bummer.
yeah, i think we should stay on topic, even though the topic is so horrible
     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
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Mar 21, 2006, 07:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by what_the_heck
Yeah, nice derail, Crash HD.
I believe you were the one who derailed it first, IE:
And unlike Germany, the US…
“Unlike Germany…” my ass. There are atrocities committed by Germany against Africa that have yet to be ‘dealt with’ the same as any other European power that dicked around there. Europeans just like to pretend that because they kept their continued slavery, overt racism, and outright genocides were mostly hidden IN the continent itself, that they are blameless. Bullcrap.
     
turtle777
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Mar 21, 2006, 07:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE
“Unlike Germany…” my ass. There are atrocities committed by Germany against Africa that have yet to be ‘dealt with’ the same as any other European power that dicked around there. Europeans just like to pretend that because they kept their continued slavery, overt racism, and outright genocides were mostly hidden IN the continent itself, that they are blameless. Bullcrap.
Uh, somebody's buttons were pushed !

-t
     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
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Mar 21, 2006, 07:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by what_the_heck
Uh, somebody's buttons were pushed !
Blatant ignorance and hypocrisy on display has a way of doing that.
     
Ado
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Mar 21, 2006, 08:47 PM
 
Germans have ALWAYS been ahead of their time...Theyre innovators...They were fisting in porn before fisting became taboo.

England is the only country in the world to have gone to war with every country in the world...Including Australia.
     
andreas_g4  (op)
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Mar 21, 2006, 10:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Ado
Germans have ALWAYS been ahead of their time...Theyre innovators...They were fisting in porn before fisting became taboo.
     
moonmonkey
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Mar 21, 2006, 10:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Ado
Germans have ALWAYS been ahead of their time...Theyre innovators...They were fisting in porn before fisting became taboo.

England is the only country in the world to have gone to war with every country in the world...Including Australia.
England VS Australia, I wonder who would win that one.
     
Ado
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Mar 22, 2006, 06:45 PM
 
Australia did...It was called the Eureka Stockade.
Now Australia fights its wars on the cricket fields against England.

Research and youll find England has been to war with every major country in the world.
     
d4nth3m4n
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Mar 22, 2006, 08:12 PM
 
     
andreas_g4  (op)
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Mar 22, 2006, 08:57 PM
 
^^^ That is one disgusting soap dispenser.
     
SimeyTheLimey
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Mar 22, 2006, 09:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by what_the_heck
Yeah, nice derail, Crash HD.

The point is: nowhere else in the Western world has racial segregation continued for so long. The US STILL has a huge problem with racism. I don't think that's true for Belgium or Germany.

-t
I encountered an extraordinary amount of blatant and frank racism when I lived in Germany. To an American it is quite shocking. Openly racist comments and attitudes were bandied about in a way that would not be tolerated in polite society in the US. But I also encountered a lot of denial similar to yours. Somehow it seems easy to pretend that racism is only a problem that other people have.

However, recall that you only gave native born Germans of Turkish ancestry the right to full German citizenship in 1998. And any country that casually sells confections called "Negerkuesse" clearly hasn't fully confronted its own racism. There is a lot you have not confronted yet.

The reason why racism seems like a bigger issue in the US is because it's something Americans talk about. That's a good thing, especially in a country as diverse as the US is because you can't just cloak these things in denial and pretend that other places suffer from a problem that is actually rather widespread. With Europe becoming more diverse, it is a lesson you are going to need to learn.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Mar 22, 2006, 10:09 PM
 
What Limey said.

I know some factory owners/workers from Germany, and they are blatantly and uncomfortably (to myself) open in their racist comments about China's emergence into a competitive industrial nation.

greg
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Mar 22, 2006, 10:10 PM
 
On that note, Canada has Celine Dion and Bryan Adams. That's...humiliating.

greg
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
moonmonkey
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Mar 22, 2006, 10:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by Ado
Australia did...It was called the Eureka Stockade.
Now Australia fights its wars on the cricket fields against England.
The Eureka stockade had absolutely nothing to do with England.

It was a dispute between gold miners and the Australian authorities over tax, it happened long after Australia was granted independence.
     
Kevin
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Mar 22, 2006, 11:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by what_the_heck
Yes. I should have made that connection more clear.

-t
I've been to quite a few countries on this planet. All of them have had racist problems.

It's a human thing.

Some in here have Xenophobia as well. (Not referring to you)
     
turtle777
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Mar 23, 2006, 12:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey
I encountered an extraordinary amount of blatant and frank racism when I lived in Germany. To an American it is quite shocking. Openly racist comments and attitudes were bandied about in a way that would not be tolerated in polite society in the US.
Yeah, I can see that happen, but from my experience, it works like this:

Germany is NOT political correct, peopel say dumb and racist things, but for the most part (vast majority), that's it.

In the US, everything is PC sugarcoated, but behind your back, there are tons of racist mother****ers that can't wait to screw you over. I've seen both sides, and I also know because I (Caucasian) have African-American relatives in my family.

-t
     
Spliffdaddy
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Mar 23, 2006, 01:27 AM
 
pfft
     
turtle777
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Mar 23, 2006, 01:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy
pfft
Huh ? Got nothing ?

-t
     
Ado
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Mar 23, 2006, 02:04 AM
 
The British Empire held the ruling class that Australia was beholden to its motherland and bonded by sentimental and cultural ties. Eureka wasnt just about land tax it was a final stand against the legacy of the British... We all know what Galipolli was about, do you think any sovereign country would storm trenches while its Motherland sat and drank tea in the camps? Even though Australia sorted it out with peace, it still had battles with british in the early stages.

During the cold war, America grabbed more influence over Australia and depended on us to test all their nuclear weapons and starwars systems.

But to be fair it wasnt a huge war like many independance days are rememebred after.
     
Ado
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Mar 23, 2006, 02:06 AM
 
America is going through their "Dictatorship/Nazi/Totalitarianism" stages right now, only difference is theres a feux pau sense of democracy, when there really isnt. The Germans battled for pride and Germany as a whole, the Russians faught for communism and socialist equality, the neocons are fighting just for a strong zionist state presence and corporate control.
All are wrong because they chose war to get their means, and in time their desicion ended their legacy.
The only real successful rulers were the Romans and then English as they ruled the longest and the most influential. (english still have the most colonies in the world and most influence of culture)


Corportations are trying to take over, and with that they payout the government and make the desisions....
A bit like we saw in iraq and Kurwait, soon iran... Funny how many people choose to not believe this and think its about terrorism.

Wheres Osama..I like to ask.
     
mrcolton
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Mar 23, 2006, 02:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by what_the_heck
That is very true.

And unlike Germany, the US at large has yet to deal with slavery and almost extinction of the native Americans.

-t
Let's see, in a couple of generations, the US has come quite far since slavery and institutionalized racism happened in our history.
     
mrcolton
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Mar 23, 2006, 02:50 AM
 
Germany has one of the most evil histories in the history of human kind. I still don't understand how ANY nation trusts these savages that have cost the world millions upon miollions of lives because of their intense hate and war mentality. Sickening nation!
     
mrcolton
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Mar 23, 2006, 02:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by Ado
America is going through their "Dictatorship/Nazi/Totalitarianism" stages right now, only difference is theres a feux pau sense of democracy, when there really isnt. The Germans battled for pride and Germany as a whole, the Russians faught for communism and socialist equality, the neocons are fighting just for a strong zionist state presence and corporate control.
All are wrong because they chose war to get their means, and in time their desicion ended their legacy.
The only real successful rulers were the Romans and then English as they ruled the longest and the most influential. (english still have the most colonies in the world and most influence of culture)


Corportations are trying to take over, and with that they payout the government and make the desisions....
A bit like we saw in iraq and Kurwait, soon iran... Funny how many people choose to not believe this and think its about terrorism.

Wheres Osama..I like to ask.
nonsense. Shut up!
     
analogika
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Mar 23, 2006, 05:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by mrcolton
Germany has one of the most evil histories in the history of human kind. I still don't understand how ANY nation trusts these savages that have cost the world millions upon miollions of lives because of their intense hate and war mentality. Sickening nation!
Ooo. Look who got dragged back in by the sphincter.

Hi dolton.

And goodbye.
     
Kr0nos
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Mar 23, 2006, 07:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by mrcolton
Germany has one of the most evil histories in the history of human kind. I still don't understand how ANY nation trusts these savages that have cost the world millions upon miollions of lives because of their intense hate and war mentality. Sickening nation!
Glad to see that the US has picked up the tab in this century.

If I change my way of living, and if I pave my streets with good times, will the mountain keep on giving…
     
SimeyTheLimey
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Mar 23, 2006, 07:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by what_the_heck
Yeah, I can see that happen, but from my experience, it works like this:

Germany is NOT political correct, peopel say dumb and racist things, but for the most part (vast majority), that's it.

In the US, everything is PC sugarcoated, but behind your back, there are tons of racist mother****ers that can't wait to screw you over. I've seen both sides, and I also know because I (Caucasian) have African-American relatives in my family.

-t
I think you are being quite complacent. Granted, this is a few years ago, but I was in Germany at the time that family in East Germany were burned alive by neo-Nazis. Now, of course, that isn't the actions of the "vast majority" but neither do the "vast majority" of Americans incinerate people for racist reasons.

People say racist things because they don't expect to be rebuked for them. They say those things when they expect agreement, or at least aquiescence. We have all encountered such attitudes, whether in the US or elsewhere. Certainly, I can recall instances where an all-white group has lead people in that group to conclude (wrongly in my case) that it is acceptable to let loose with a racist remark. Germany exhibits that same tendency but magnified. People say racist things not just because they are racist, but also because they assume it is OK to be racist. In America, there are racists to be sure. But it is much less acceptable to be seen to be a racist. That is a sign of progress.

And note, I am not suggesting here that there isn't racism in the US, I am criticizing your complacency about the problem in Germany. Your country has generally speaking not handled your immigration issues well. Look around you, Turks and Germans of Turkish descent are not treated well at all. You can't point to the treatment of African-Americans because African-Americans are first and foremost treated as Americans. That is, visitors, not people Germans live with. The acid test is how you treat your immigrant communities, not your tourists. And on that score, Germany does not have reason to be smug and complacent.
     
iLikebeer
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Mar 23, 2006, 07:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Ado
The only real successful rulers were the Romans and then English as they ruled the longest and the most influential. (english still have the most colonies in the world and most influence of culture)
Why does everyone always forget about those pesky Egyptians that were the only civilized culture for thousands of years? Even though hardly any of us still worship Ra, the true god, it doesn't mean their culture didn't have influence or rule longer.

And David Hasslehoff rocks, have you seen Knight Rider in HD yet? Channel 74 every day on DirecTV, right before the several episodes of Quantum Leap. Yeah, HDTV rules...
     
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Mar 23, 2006, 08:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by Ado
the neocons are fighting just for a strong zionist state presence and corporate control.
We all know your anti-jew anti-israerl stance Adolf. Please don't bring it in here.
     
turtle777
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Mar 23, 2006, 02:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey
I think you are being quite complacent. Granted, this is a few years ago, but I was in Germany at the time that family in East Germany were burned alive by neo-Nazis. Now, of course, that isn't the actions of the "vast majority" but neither do the "vast majority" of Americans incinerate people for racist reasons.
Pff, if you really were in Germany, and had followed the news, you would have noticed that these were VERY isolated and few cases. In general, Germany has the smallest number of nazis in all of Europe, but as soon as one shows up, it gets so pushed and blown up by the media that everyone thinks Germany has this huge problem. It's a problem with our liberal, leftist media. Btw, the US has far more active nazis then Germany now. Whodathunkit.
In America, there are racists to be sure. But it is much less acceptable to be seen to be a racist. That is a sign of progress.
Dream on. That's what those on one side of the fence see and think. If you talk to the other side, you'll see a completely different story.
And note, I am not suggesting here that there isn't racism in the US, I am criticizing your complacency about the problem in Germany.
How do you know that I'm complacent ? How can you judge me like that ?
Your country has generally speaking not handled your immigration issues well. Look around you, Turks and Germans of Turkish descent are not treated well at all.
Not treated well = racism ? Rrrright.

The issue between Germans and Turks is NOT an primarily an issue of racism. I know of nobody who would consider Turks a different race, like you'd find in the US people considering Afro-Americans. Completely different matter, although, on the surface, the actions might sometimes look the same.
You can't point to the treatment of African-Americans because African-Americans are first and foremost treated as Americans.
You should join Cody in Lala-land.
That is, visitors, not people Germans live with. The acid test is how you treat your immigrant communities, not your tourists. And on that score, Germany does not have reason to be smug and complacent.
Oh really, how is that ?
Do you rally think Germany is treating its immigrating Turks worse than the US does their immigrating Mexicans. Again, dream on...

-t
     
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Mar 23, 2006, 02:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by what_the_heck
That is very true.

And unlike Germany, the US at large has yet to deal with slavery and almost extinction of the native Americans.

-t
Black people are still in chains ? People in white sheets roam the streets looking for lynching victims ?

     
PacHead
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Mar 23, 2006, 02:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by what_the_heck
The US STILL has a huge problem with racism. I don't think that's true for Belgium or Germany.

-t
1960's Alabama will look like a joke compared to Europe soon. Mark my words.

     
itai195
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Mar 23, 2006, 02:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by what_the_heck
Yeah, nice derail, Crash HD.

The point is: nowhere else in the Western world has racial segregation continued for so long. The US STILL has a huge problem with racism. I don't think that's true for Belgium or Germany.

-t
Nowhere else in the Western world has racial integration had to occur on such a large scale.

But if you want an example of integration that took much longer, take a look at Europe's Jewish population, what's left of it anyway.
     
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Mar 23, 2006, 02:56 PM
 
When it comes to neo-nazi I just wonder if there are less of them when it is illigal or when it is legal.
     
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Mar 23, 2006, 02:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by what_the_heck
Do you rally think Germany is treating its immigrating Turks worse than the US does their immigrating Mexicans. Again, dream on...
-t

Actually, they do. In Germany citizenship is by the blood, in the US citizenship is by the land. What this means is that there is a huge second generation Turkish population in Germany who have little if any rights and are very much second class citizens.
Imagine being born in Germany yet having no German passport and little chance of acquiring one. Imagine living in Germany your entire life without the right to vote. You have no voice, yet you're constantly asked to integrate into society.
     
 
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