[Timo]

Multiple nationalities

So, if your country allows for such a thing, what do you think of dual or multiple nationals?

Should people be able to have multiple citizenships?

Is having multiple nationalities evidence of pragmatism, opportunism or indecisiveness?

Can a person entertain multiple allegiances?

How much of our identities should be mixed in with our countries' identities and history?

[The Godfather]

Sometimes you gotta do whatever it takes to feed your kids.

[wdlove]

I'm an American!

[Logic]

I'm both Swedish and Icelandic. Both parents Icelandic, but since I moved to Sweden when I was 5 and lived there for 14 years I feel just as much Swedish as Icelandic. I did the military draft(if that is what it is called in english) in Sweden and so on.

So I'm all for it as long as you feel you are of that nationality. You shouldn't get citizenship in a country just to be able to get the benefits. It is an honour.

But at the same time I hate borders. It is sort of like being proud of being from the town/area/whatever you are but still being able to move and live everywhere in your country and enjoy it.

[voodoo]

Passports?



I am from planet Earth.

[schep]

I have a french and a US passport, more useful to travel through US and EU, could get Dutch but that would mean not having the other two which would make it a b�tch to the US

[The Godfather]

It seems to me that having multiple citizenships is not a matter of choice. It is a matter of who your parents and your spouse are from.

So, there's no point in discussing the morality of it.

[Dogma]

I'm Scottish, no wait, that includes the East coast, I'm Glaswegian, no wait, that includes Glaswegians.

A wise man once said "No man is an island, except when he's in the bath" (or was it "when his name is madagascar?")

I inhabit the UK, I hold a UK passport. My parents were both born in Scotland, from my Grandparents it gets a bit harder - Ireland, Norway, Scotland, then onto Norway, Ireland, England, Scotland etc. including way down the line - France, Germany, Sweden, etc. Our version of the surname (Dickson) itself is traced back to 18th century Ayrshire when someone changed it from the regular Richardson, which in turn came about the 16th century of the Scandinavian Ricardsson (or something like that) - really just making it clear that the overall male side is of Scandinavian origin - possibly going as far back to the Viking settlers, but I have reservations about that. Not Anglified enough to be Dixon, but still far enough south to have it shortened anyway.

(one of my Uncles was into all that genealogy stuff)

Not that I really care. I am me. I like the country in which i live, but maybe not so much of the people and it's infrastructure. I was thinking about going to France to see how I get on as my GF can speak french quite well, and I'm always told with the basics i have of the beautiful language, i should pick it up in no time. But then, there's a lot to consider.

As for nationality - it's nice for stories to tell your pals and people you know, but would you go as far as to be "proud" of a country? That depends on your definition of country. I see the country being its people and their history, government, and infrastructure. The actual land it occupies should be purely rhetorical, as nice land is everywhere, and how can you be proud of something that exists, and will exist, no matter what your little civilisation does on top of it. With that, I'd say that being Scottish, I can be proud of the history, and love the land we live on, everything else about Scotland can away and bile its heid! That being said, I am Scottish if someone asks, European next of the choices, and only British in the eyes of the passport office (even with that, it says EC on it, so it's not really a "British" passport any more).

If I declare my own private state where my house is, would the Queens army try and claim the land by force? has anyone ever heard of Sealand (or whatever it's name is)? It's an old oil platform thingy just off the coast of England that declared itself a separate state at some point. It's now a principality, though gets virtually no recognition.

[villalobos]

Originally posted by The Godfather:
It seems to me that having multiple citizenships is not a matter of choice. It is a matter of who your parents and your spouse are from.

So, there's no point in discussing the morality of it.

True but some countries require you to choose one or the other. For instance, The US don't, France does not, but I think Germany does... There is also the blood requirement. Being born in GErmany does not give you the right to German citizenship, unlike the US. Finally, you have the choice not to have the US citizenship even if you have the right to it, if your parents are from another country.

Yeah there are choices... for a limited number of people.

villa

[tooki]

I was born with dual citizenship (dad from one country, mom from another). So for me, the only choice would be if I decided to renounce either citizenship.

Allegiance is something not everyone has -- I don't have any one place I could really call home. So it's not whether you can maintain multiple allegiances, but rather any at all. (Americans have, IMHO, by and large a twisted sense of allegiance. Other countries don't think about it as much as we do.)

Food for thought.

tooki

[nonhuman]

Originally posted by villalobos:
True but some countries require you to choose one or the other. For instance, The US don't, France does not, but I think Germany does... There is also the blood requirement. Being born in GErmany does not give you the right to German citizenship, unlike the US. Finally, you have the choice not to have the US citizenship even if you have the right to it, if your parents are from another country.

Yeah there are choices... for a limited number of people.

villa

In order to be a Chinese citizen, I believe you need to be Han Chinese. National minorities might be an exception, but I'm not sure.

As for me: I'm me. Beyond that, I deny/refuse categorization.

[malvolio]

I am an American citizen (born and raised here) of Finnish heritage (all 4 grandparents were born in Suomi). Lived the first 11 years of my life in an area where Finnish-Americans made up the majority of the population. Culturally, I'm roughly 90% American, 10% Finnish.
Finland recently passed a new law allowing dual citizenship. I'll have to look into that, might come in handy if Bush and his neocon cabel continue their dismantling of our civil liberties.

[deekay1]

i have a german and an american passport. it's just very convenient when you're travelling

as far as alligiance goes, i really couldn't care less. afaic i'm a human being...i just whish i could speak every language on the planet :-)

[Timo]

Thank you all for indulging me with excellent posts. This one in particular made me think:

Originally posted by tooki:
[Allegiance is something not everyone has -- I don't have any one place I could really call home. So it's not whether you can maintain multiple allegiances, but rather any at all. (Americans have, IMHO, by and large a twisted sense of allegiance. Other countries don't think about it as much as we do.)

[maxelson]

CUlture. It is a part of who we are- from the most seeming insignificant little tradition to the Nationalistic fervor stuff.
Me? I'm a Swedish American New Englander... from Central MA. All of these cultural markers have some meaning for me and are a part of what I am- and I have no problem with that. It is fun to make these little identity connections. I will never ignore them.

[Timo]

Originally posted by maxelson:
All of these cultural markers have some meaning for me and are a part of what I am- and I have no problem with that. It is fun to make these little identity connections. I will never ignore them.

I think soon, maybe in 3000 more posts, you won't be able to ignore your MacNN identity either.

Dj�vel.

[azt33]

Well, I've got multiple nationalities. I've got the Dutch nationality, because I lived here basicly my whole life. I've got the Turkish nationality, 'cause I was born there, and my mother is Turkish. And I've got the Iranian nationality, 'cause my father is Iranian. And I gotta agree, it makes travelling so much easier

Edit: I just wanted to say, that I feel as much Turkish and Iranian, as Dutch. I'm actual proud to know and live by three different cultures.

[chris v]

Wait. How else will We tell ourselves from Them?

CV

[Timo]

"Them?" Well, they's giant ANTS, now aren't they. I reckon we'll know 'em by the sight of their quiverin' antenae.

[Logic]

Originally posted by Timo:
Dj�vel.

n�r m�rkret faller
st�r du helt p� egen hand
d� �r det �ga f�r �ga, tand f�r tand

[chris v]

Originally posted by Timo:
"Them?" Well, they's giant ANTS, now aren't they. I reckon we'll know 'em by the sight of their quiverin' antenae.

Whoa. I thought Them were just the French. *Shudder*

CV

[Timo]

Originally posted by chris v:
Whoa. I thought Them were just the French. *Shudder*

Dude, everyone knows a Frenchie's legs are hairy, all six of 'em!

[Sven G]

Originally posted by Logic:
n�r m�rkret faller
st�r du helt p� egen hand
d� �r det �ga f�r �ga, tand f�r tand

Another beautiful poem (which my grandfather on my mother's side used to tell me often: BTW, for the thread's topic, I'm both of Swedish and Italian "nationality") is this one, by Viktor Rydberg - really emotionally intense... Tomten (i.e., "The Gnome", or even Santa):

Midvinternattens k�ld �r h�rd,
stj�rnorna gnistra och glimma.
Alla sova i enslig g�rd
djupt under midnattstimma.
M�nen vandrar sin tysta ban,
sn�n lyser vit p� fur och gran,
sn�n lyser vit p� taken.
Endast tomten �r vaken.

St�r d�r s� gr� vid ladg�rdsd�rr,
gr� mot den vita driva,
tittar, som m�nga vintrar f�rr,
upp emot m�nens skiva,
tittar mot skogen, d�r gran och fur
drar kring g�rden sin dunkla mur,
grubblar, fast ej det l�r b�ta,
�ver en underlig g�ta.

F�r sin hand genom sk�gg och h�r,
skakar huvud och h�tta ---
�nej, den g�tan �r alltf�r sv�r,
nej, jag gissar ej detta� ---
sl�r, som han pl�gar, inom kort
slika sp�rjande tankar bort,
g�r att ordna och pyssla,
g�r att sk�ta sin syssla.

G�r till visthus och redskapshus,
k�nner p� alla l�sen ---
korna dr�mma vid m�nens ljus
sommardr�mmar i b�sen;
gl�msk av sele och pisk och t�m
P�lle i stallet har ock en dr�m:
krubban han lutar �ver
fylls av doftande kl�ver; ---

G�r till st�ngslet f�r lamm och f�r,
ser, hur de sova d�r inne;
g�r till h�nsen, d�r tuppen st�r
stolt p� sin h�gsta pinne;
Karo i hundbots halm m�r gott,
vaknar och viftar svansen sm�tt,
Karo sin tomte k�nner,
de �ro gode v�nner.

Tomten smyger sig sist att se
husbondfolket det k�ra,
l�nge och v�l han m�rkt, att de
h�lla hans flit i �ra;
barnens kammar han sen p� t�
nalkas att se de s�ta sm�,
ingen m� det f�rtycka:
det �r hans st�rsta lycka.

S� har han sett dem, far och son,
ren genom m�nga leder
slumra som barn; men varifr�n
kommo de v�l hit neder?
Sl�kte f�ljde p� sl�kte snart,
blomstrade, �ldrades, gick --- men vart?
G�tan, som icke l�ter
gissa sig, kom s� �ter!

Tomten vandrar till ladans loft:
d�r har han bo och f�ste
h�gt p� skullen i h�ets doft,
n�ra vid svalans n�ste;
nu �r v�l svalans boning tom,
men till v�ren med blad och blom
kommer hon nog tillbaka,
f�ljd av sin n�pna maka.

D� har hon alltid att kvittra om
m�nget ett f�rdeminne,
intet likv�l om g�tan, som
r�r sig i tomtens sinne.
Genom en springa i ladans v�gg
lyser m�nen p� gubbens sk�gg,
strimman p� sk�gget bl�nker,
tomten grubblar och t�nker.

Tyst �r skogen och nejden all,
livet d�r ute �r fruset,
blott fr�n fj�rran av forsens fall
h�res helt sakta bruset.
Tomten lyssnar och, halvt i dr�m,
tycker sig h�ra tidens str�m,
undrar, varth�n den skall fara,
undrar, var k�llan m� vara.

Midvinternattens k�ld �r h�rd,
stj�rnorna gnistra och glimma.
Alla sova i enslig g�rd
gott intill morgontimma.
M�nen s�nker sin tysta ban,
sn�n lyser vit p� fur och gran,
sn�n lyser vit p� taken.
Endast tomten �r vaken.

... And here's an image of the author:

[DBursey]

I love all of my multiple personalities. Why, just the other day I chaired my staff meeting as angry, vindictive Dav ...

Oh! multiple Nationalities! All for them. The wife has both Canadian and American citizenship, which allows us to roam the continent as we please. Of course, time, distance and Ontario have conspired to dilute much of her California-ness.

[Logic]

Originally posted by Sven G:
Another beautiful poem (which my grandfather on my mother's side used to tell me often: BTW, for the thread's topic, I'm both of Swedish and Italian "nationality") is this one, by Viktor Rydberg - really emotionally intense... Tomten (i.e., "The Gnome", or even Santa):

......snipped for brevity.......

Isn't the the Swedish "independent day" today? Well if I'm right I think this is in order

Du gamla, Du fria, Du fj�llh�ga nord
Du tysta, Du gl�djerika sk�na!
Jag h�lsar Dig, v�naste land upp� jord,
/: Din sol, Din himmel, Dina �ngder gr�na. :/

Du tronar p� minnen fr�n fornstora dar,
d� �rat Ditt namn fl�g �ver jorden.
Jag vet att Du �r och Du blir vad du var.
/: Ja, jag vill leva jag vill d� i Norden. :/

Jag st�ds vill dig tj�na mitt �lskade land,
din trohet till d�den vill jag sv�ra.
Din r�tt, skall jag v�rna, med h�g och med hand,
/:din fana, h�gt den bragderika b�ra. :/

Med Gud skall jag k�mpa, f�r hem och f�r h�rd,
f�r Sverige, den k�ra fosterjorden.
Jag byter Dig ej, mot allt i en v�rld
:/ Nej, jag vill leva jag vill d� i Norden. :/

[daimoni]

.

[SubGeniux]

Citizen of the planet here and don't really agree to anything our british government has said about the Iraq war, but, I don't really agree with much of what the rest of the world says. Damn.
I'm pretty glad jsut now NOT to be an american, lovely country, my ex was american, but damn, that Bush is jsut he offspring of buffalo rape, sorry for being crude, can't find a term that fit shim properly.

With us or without us? F**K that, just another way for bushy boy to dominate the world with his resource grabbing, hate mongering ways and breaker of practiacal;y every international law; oh, as well as going back on most arms and environmet treaties too.
If he thinks he can just blacken each nation cause they somehow found huge holes in his arguments, them tough luck, at the end of the day, every empire has its time, each one thought they were invincible, but they crumble under the their own arrogance.

Phew

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com

[Silencer]

I got dragged over to Australia from England 2 years ago by my parents, I'll be doing Uni here so i need to become a Australian citizen or i have to pay interenational fees, so i'll be getting my Dual passport for Australia and England so when my course is finished i can head back over to my true home.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Timo:


Dj�vel.

Satana.

[The Godfather]

Originally posted by Silencer:
so i need to become a Australian citizen.

How do you do that?

[The Placid Casual]

I am half Italian (Mother), half Welsh (Father). I could have had dual nationality if I had so wished, however I just have a UK passport as I live, and have been brought up in the UK... (Unfortunatley).

However, I am much, much closer in outlook and looks to my Italian heritage than anything else...

[tintub]

British & Australian citizenship here.

I definitely feel I am English rather than Australian, but if I didn't have all my family in England and France, I would give up my British Passport more readily than my Aussie one.

[undotwa]

Blood wise I'm 1/8 Swiss Italian, 1/8 Greek, 1/2 Polish, 1/4 Irish Australian

I've also got some German but it's a very small %.

Culturally I'm Australian struggling to learn Greek and Spanish, while getting good at Latin . Really there are only three factors which I require to make a city livable:

1. Good cuisine
2. Beautiful city (ie clean, nice buildings, gardens)
3. Learnable language.

I have a tendency to like Meditteranean foods (esp Greek & Spanish), but a dislike of Athens (dirty city).

[ReggieX]

It was a hard choice between 3 and 4, so I picked 4. My current Canadian passport has expired, and I really ought to renew that and check to see if I can get my UK citizenship back in good standing.

Heck, my mom's from Canada, my dad's from Kenya, and I was born in Iran. Citizen of the world, baby!