[CreepingDeth]

Simple poll about your political beliefs. Please vote, and not just post.

[Luca Rescigno]

I'm fairly liberal, but not extremely so. A moderate democrat am I.

[CreepingDeth]

It might also help if you identify one of your favorite politicians. EX: Goldwater and Reagan were some of my favorites. Or you could give another example.

[angaq0k]

I don't like little boxes where I am asked to fit. I care too much for my freedom for that...

[Developer]

I would say Hans-Christian Str�bele is my favourite politician. I also liked Clinton.

[Luca Rescigno]

Well, I have to give a shout-out to Paul Wellstone, the senator from my state who tragically died in a plane accident the week before a very close election between him and current senator Norm Coleman. I really don't like Norm, although I don't really mind our Republican governor, Tim Pawlenty, that much. Pawlenty earned a lot of respect from me a while back when he decided that after looking objectively at the facts, he changed his position on light rail and decided to support it even though most Republicans are against it (for political reasons, of course).

Wellstone was more liberal than I, but what I admire most about him is that he was one of the only Democrats willing to stand up for what he thought was right, even if it was unpopular. He was an extremely passionate and compassionate man. So sad to see him go. I was also at the Wellstone memorial that drew so much controversy. And I agree that it got a little too political at the end, although the media didn't focus at all on the great majority of it which was very nice and didn't have any kind of political slant.

Of the current Democrats, I do like both John Edwards and Wesley Clark. I value a lot of strength in a politician - there's no point to being a politician if you can't act on it. That's why they're in Washington. Not to just have an opinion, but to be really good at standing up for it.

[Zimphire]

I am a mix of things.. there are values on "Both sides" that I am for and against.

[CreepingDeth]

Neo-con here. Who voted Communist?

[chris v]

You've got Fascist at the wrong end of the political spectrum, there.

[CreepingDeth]

Not really. Fascism is National Socialism.
But they considered themselves the "third wing", so they fit more into the side they are currently at that the other side. But it doesn't matter, who'd vote for that one anyway? Communist is safer for Macnn.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by angaq0k:
I don't like little boxes where I am asked to fit. I care too much for my freedom for that...

If you're closer to communist, vote communist, if your views are closer to socialist, vote socialist.

[Luca Rescigno]

Oh great. Just when I think we actually have a political thread that might be considered unbiased, someone points out that Fascism has been moved from the extreme-conservative end to the extreme-liberal end.

Yeah, good work, CreepingDeath Are you just ashamed to admit that conservativism taken too far is fascism? Because I am fully aware that liberalism taken too far is communism.

The name doesn't matter. However, I have heard some people describe the political "spectrum" as more of a circle of sorts. Moderate at the bottom edge, left and right wing at the left and right edges, and fascism and communism meeting at the top edge. I don't know how valid that model really is, but it seems that both communism and fascism involve near-total control of the government over the people.

[MacGorilla]

I am a liberal but not affiliated with any party. I find good ideas in many political party platforms.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
Not really. Fascism is National Socialism.
But they considered themselves the "third wing", so they fit more into the side they are currently at that the other side. But it doesn't matter, who'd vote for that one anyway? Communist is safer for Macnn.

Yes really. Neo-con is the closest thing to fascism.

[greenamp]

Slightly left leaning libertarian... where's that option on the list?

[CreepingDeth]

Until they figure out how to put polls in circles, I guess I'm stuck with a vertical format. The Cartesian political plane is worthless when comparing two forms of socialism. Sorry bout that, but it is more to the left. Can we please not turn it into the whole discussion of the thread.

If you are a liberal, think of Democrat as a liberal. Moderate-liberal, etc. I thought party names might help.
I guess that might fit into Conservative-Democrat. Libertarian is also a weird group, which is hard to place. If you sound alot like Zel Miller, than you're a Conservative Democrat. Pick what sounds right.

Who voted Nazi!? Show yourself!

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
If you're closer to communist, vote communist, if your views are closer to socialist, vote socialist.

repeated for emphasis

I don't like little boxes where I am asked to fit. I care too much for my freedom for that...

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
Until they figure out how to put polls in circles, I guess I'm stuck with a vertical format. The Cartesian political plane is worthless when comparing two forms of socialism. Sorry bout that, but it is more to the left. Can we please not turn it into the whole discussion of the thread.

If you are a liberal, think of Democrat as a liberal. Moderate-liberal, etc. I thought party names might help.
I guess that might fit into Conservative-Democrat. Libertarian is also a weird group, which is hard to place. If you sound alot like Zel Miller, than you're a Conservative Democrat. Pick what sounds right.

Who voted Nazi!? Show yourself!

You forgot Anarchist.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by voodoo:
Yes really. Neo-con is the closest thing to fascism.

Either end of the extreme is the closest thing to fascism.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Either end of the extreme is the closest thing to fascism.

Not exactly. Fascism is nationalism + socialist.
I am patriotic, but I am no socialist.

Think of it this way:

Fascism�������Communism
|
Socialist
|
|
|
|
Moderate
|
|
|
Conservative

[Edit] Woops, forgot it doesn't display stuff right. everything past the first line is supposed to be in the middle. The point is they are two different types, not always linked to Socialism, unless they really try.

[Developer]

Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
I am fully aware that liberalism taken too far is communism.

No, liberalism taken too far is anarchy. Communism certainly isn't economically liberal.

[Developer]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
Not exactly. Fascism is nationalism + socialist.
I am patriotic, but I am no socialist.

Fascism is not socialism. Regardless that the NSDAP had that word in its name. Fascism refers to an authoritarian government form.

[CreepingDeth]

Of course it is. Why would it be anything else? Hitler wasn't too fond of democrats, capitalists and Jews. He hated capitalists. Although for most of his reign, economic policies were of little concern, i.e. a war.
The nuts I'm talking about are like Ezra Pound. You know who he is, the writer who did work for a fascist paper.
Why would they call themselves National Socialists and be capitalists?
I know where this is going. Can we please just stay on voting with the little radio buttons? We can have this discussion another time.

They only national socialist party around to my knowledge is the LNSGP.

[AKcrab]

Originally posted by MacGorilla:
I am a liberal but not affiliated with any party. I find good ideas in many political party platforms.

Ditto. How should I vote?

[CreepingDeth]

Liberally, or go with Nader.

[Zimphire]

Word History: It is fitting that the name of an authoritarian political movement like Fascism, founded in 1919 by Benito Mussolini, should come from the name of a symbol of authority. The Italian name of the movement, fascismo, is derived from fascio, �bundle, (political) group,� but also refers to the movement's emblem, the fasces, a bundle of rods bound around a projecting axe-head that was carried before an ancient Roman magistrate by an attendant as a symbol of authority and power. The name of Mussolini's group of revolutionaries was soon used for similar nationalistic movements in other countries that sought to gain power through violence and ruthlessness, such as National Socialism.

[Luca Rescigno]

Originally posted by Developer:
No, liberalism taken too far is anarchy. Communism certainly isn't economically liberal.

Thanks for the clarification. Like I said, I'm not a political science expert.

[CreepingDeth]

Exactly. However, Mussolini didn't always agree with Hitler's. Hilter was very whacky socially, so to be fair, not all fascist nuts are Hitlers. It is more likely you could be a Mussolini, but then again, that's not very good either.

Again, Cartesian planes are worthless when comparing 3 different political movements, and thus irrelevant. The above picture is misleading.

[Zimphire]

And that is why I am a registered Libertarian.

[CreepingDeth]

But Libertarians are kind of whimpy when it comes to national security. They're right half the time.

[AKcrab]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
Liberally, or go with Nader.

I meant which option in *your* poll.

[Developer]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
And that is why I am a registered Libertarian.

If by "that" you mean the chart, then note that there are two axes. One is the economic freedom. Economically free means "I worked for my money, I do with it what I want". The other is the personal freedom. Personally free means "I do whatever I want in my personal life". Liberal ("free") means free on both axes. However from your posts I would conclude that you oppose personal freedom. Gay Marriage � your're against it. Abortion � you're against it etc. I'd rank you more on the right side of the spectrum (economic freedom higher than personal freedom).

[CreepingDeth]

If you think you're waay liberal, go with socialist. Not as to the left, go down the list. Whatever you feel seems right.

But by that chart, then any orthodox Jew or Christian is an evil hater of rights.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Developer:
If by "that" you mean the chart, then note that there are two axes. One is the economic freedom. Economically free means "I worked for my money, I do with it what I want". The other is the personal freedom. Personally free means "I do whatever I want in my personal life". Liberal ("free") means free on both axes. However from your posts I would conclude that you oppose personal freedom. Gay Marriage � your're against it. Abortion � you're against it etc. I'd rank you more on the right side of the spectrum (economic freedom higher than personal freedom).

I am not against gays getting equal benefits as married people. Where do you get that from? You must have not been reading my posts. I am against abortion, for the very same reasons I am against the Death Penalty.

I don't think personal freedom involves killing living beings. I am for the personal freedom of unborn humans as well as born ones.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
But by that chart, then any orthodox Jew or Christian is an evil hater of rights.

The source it comes from. "wikipedia" isn't the most unbiased source out there. Nor is it a "reliable" one. Take it with a grain of salt.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
The source it comes from. "wikipedia" isn't the most unbiased source out there. Nor is it a "reliable" one. Take it with a grain of salt.

I take any square chart comparing **** like that with a grain of salt.

[voodoo]

There is no socialism in National Socialism. Hitler hated no political movement more than communism and socialism. The name of his party did not reflect their political leanings. Like Republicans aren't trying to establish republics wherever they go and Venstre (the right wing party in Denmark) means 'left'. The names of parties rarely have any connection with their policies or agendas.

[Developer]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I am not against gays getting equal benefits as married people. Where do you get that from?

I remember certain posts of you where you claimed that gay sex is a sin. I concluded that therefore you'd be against gay marriage and stuff. If you are indeed not against gay marriage then you must be some kind of secular orthodox Christian. Weird, but kind of cool if you ask me.

I am against abortion, for the very same reasons I am against the Death Penalty.

I don't think personal freedom involves killing living beings.

There might be very good reasons to be against certain personal freedoms, but reasons don't count. If you're against personal freedoms, you're not liberal by definition.

[CreepingDeth]

What the hell are you talking about. Although communism and fascism are have differences, you cannot deny their similarities. Communism was like a rival high school to Hitler. Similar, but hated each other. Capitalism and democracy, or republic if you perfer, was the real enemy, like rival olympic team.
They are different, but their differences can't be confused with their absolute hatred of democracy.

A better example would be two twins who hated each other, but had more hatred toward their parents than they did between each other.

[Developer]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
But by that chart, then any orthodox Jew or Christian is an evil hater of rights.

That chart doesn't make any valuation. No good, no evil.

[Luca Rescigno]

Either that, or he says that it's fine for two men/women to love each other, but they're not allowed to have sex or get married. I've heard that before but I'm not sure which one the big Z is.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Developer:
I remember certain posts of you where you claimed that gay sex is a sin. I concluded that therefore you'd be against gay marriage and stuff. If you are indeed not against gay marriage then you must be some kind of secular orthodox Christian. Weird, but kind of cool if you ask me.

No, what this means is, Just because I am against it, doesn't mean others don't have free will. I accept that.

There might be very good reasons to be against certain personal freedoms, but reasons don't count. If you're against personal freedoms, you're not liberal by definition.

Again, I don't consider murder a personal freedom.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by Developer:
That chart doesn't make any valuation. No good, no evil.

Of course it does!! Right wingers "hate personal freedoms", according to that chart. No freedoms=hate of freedoms, which is eevil!
It is misleading either way. It also says Libertarianism is the only good system, which isn't exactly true.

[Zimphire]

Like I said, take anything you see that comes from wikipedia with a grain of salt. It's about as legit as a web forum.

[Developer]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
No, what this means is, Just because I am against it, doesn't mean others don't have free will. I accept that.

Why no? I that's what I said. I can respect you're opinion all the better when you don't enforce it on others. That's why I called that part of your personality "cool". That was a compliment.

Again, I don't consider murder a personal freedom.

And that's why you rate lower on the personal freedom axis. You don't accept abortion and murder. A more liberal person maybe accepts abortion but not murder and an anarchic person accepts both.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Developer:

And that's why you rate lower on the personal freedom axis. You don't accept abortion and murder. A more liberal person maybe accepts abortion but not murder and an anarchic person accepts both.

Like I said, I am for personal freedom as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. Both abortion and murder can and does. Accepting abortion doesn't mean you are for personal freedom. It means you are for not taking responsibilities for your own actions. Something I am also big on.

[Developer]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
Of course it does!! Right wingers "hate personal freedoms", according to that chart.

No. There is absolutely nothing that says "hate" in that chart. I don't see that word in there.

What that chart says is that right wingers accept less personal freedoms. There might be good reasons to limit personal freedoms (like Zimphire limiting abortion which he does for good reason), but this chart doesn't make any statement about good or bad. You're reading something into it which just isn't there.

[CreepingDeth]

Me? Let's see:
Lower Taxes
Flat Taxes
End Affirmative Action, aka racial preference
Missile Defense
Destroy ACLU
Stop illegal immigration
Tort Reform
End bilingual education
Require health tests for anyone coming into this country
End ban on assault rifles

For a few. Is that limiting freedom?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
End Affirmative Action, aka racial preference
Destroy ACLU

Isn't that the same thing?

End bilingual education

Do you mean end teaching of other languages, or end teaching IN other languages so they wont have to learn English?

[CreepingDeth]

#1. My bad. The ACLU is a communist organization.
#2 I don't really see why we have to learn a foreign language. It seems like an elective to me. I was talking about the latter though, because it is pointless. I also don't see a reason for translators in a classroom. LEARN ENGLISH! This is America!