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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Trump vs FBI: Mar-a-Lago Raid

Trump vs FBI: Mar-a-Lago Raid
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Thorzdad
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Aug 8, 2022, 10:11 PM
 
So, holy shit, the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago today.
     
reader50
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Aug 8, 2022, 11:58 PM
 
This is (at least officially) a followup on Trump taking boxes of records with him when he left the White House. The National Archives recovered boxes of documents, some of them classified. The moment Trump's term ended, he was no longer authorized to possess classified documents. The raid is presumably to see if any documents were missed. Maybe to see if anyone conspired with Trump, or sold copies, etc.

There is another open DoJ investigation of Trump, pertaining to election interference and Jan 6. There may be other as-yet unannounced investigations. The raid may have looked for evidence related to other investigations while they were there.
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Aug 9, 2022, 08:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
The raid is presumably to see if any documents were missed. Maybe to see if anyone conspired with Trump, or sold copies, etc.
Per Popehat, a raid such as this has to be something far more concrete than a fishing expedition to see if anything was missed. Given the chain of approval and evidence required to stage such a politically-charged action, especially given the time span between when Trump left office (allegedly with classified documents) and now, there must be something seriously concrete that the DoJ knows is in Trump’s possession.
     
andi*pandi
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Aug 9, 2022, 12:26 PM
 
Aaaaand all the magas whining about persecution when they are usually the party of "law and order."

You don't get to keep classified files after your presidency is over;
You don't get to delete official texts;
You don't get to break rules everyone else has to follow.
A search warrant means everywhere, even your safe, snowflake.

I applaud the secrecy of this opp that we don't even know the worst of it yet.

The FBI director was appointed by trump, and already people are claiming he's a traitor.
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Aug 9, 2022, 01:15 PM
 
An interesting bit about the raid is that the Secret Service wasn't informed of it until it was about to go down. I'm not clear if it was the entire service being kept in the dark, or just Trump's detail. Given the recent revelation that SS agents had erased texts pertaining to Jan.6 from their phones, I'd say it was a good call keeping them out of the loop.
     
subego
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Aug 9, 2022, 02:00 PM
 
My money is on them not telling anyone.
     
Laminar
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Aug 9, 2022, 02:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
The FBI director was appointed by trump, and already people are claiming he's a traitor.
Comey went from hero to villain and back like 6 times depending on the current Fox News narrative of the But Her Emails investigation.
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Aug 9, 2022, 03:22 PM
 
Almost as soon as Needy Amin started live-blogging the raid, the far-right started banging the tired and worn Hunter Biden whutabout-drum as loud as they could.
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Aug 9, 2022, 03:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
My money is on them not telling anyone.
I think that's pretty apparent, given everyone's utter surprise and not a whiff of a press leak. "Need to Know" in full effect.
     
andi*pandi
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Aug 11, 2022, 11:16 PM
 
Trump claims FBI didn't let lawyer in, didn't give notice, planted evidence, and does not say what the warrant is about...
Garland says fine, I was trying to be discrete but we gave the secret service notice, your lawyer was there, we had a warrant, and if you wanted to you could publicize what it said... but since you insist, I'll unseal it and publicize it instead.
trump: ... oh f***.

or better put on twitter:
Ron Filipkowski 🇺🇦 @RonFilipkowski · 5h
MAGA Tuesday - We demand Merrick Garland immediately unseal the affidavit and tell the American people the grounds for the search warrant!

MAGA Friday - Unsealing the warrant is improper and just designed to damage Trump politically to keep him from running for office!
nuclear records for sale to the saudis anyone?
https://twitter.com/Angry_Staffer/st...87890306334720
     
OreoCookie
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Aug 12, 2022, 12:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Comey went from hero to villain and back like 6 times depending on the current Fox News narrative of the But Her Emails investigation.
Not only that, Trump seems to be doing the same or much worse than what Trump accused Clinton of.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Aug 12, 2022, 03:37 AM
 
He's being investigated for so much. Can he possibly get away with all of it? I really hope not. Throw away the key.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Aug 12, 2022, 08:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
nuclear records for sale to the saudis anyone?
https://twitter.com/Angry_Staffer/st...87890306334720
Selling to the Saudis would be a little odd, given they are not a nuclear power, and are, ostensibly, friendlies.

Handing the documents over to Putin, though, makes perfect sense, given how cozy Trump has been with him, and how much Trump tried to hurt the NATO alliance while in office. And, of course, there was the meddling that helped him get elected in the first place.

Do we know, exactly, what the nuclear documents entailed? I kind of doubt it would be “how to build a bomb” type of documents. That’s not the kind of thing a President gets briefed on, or would hold documents on. I suspect ithe docs would be more along the lines of (as of his last day in office) current nuclear stockpiles and positioning of weapons (both US and NATO) worldwide. Maybe also military defensive and offensive strategy plans. That’s the stuff that would be worth many mountains of gold to a Russian or Chinese dictator.
     
Laminar
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Aug 12, 2022, 10:17 AM
 
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...27#post4314227

The whole Hillary email debacle is hilarious to look at in hindsight, so many champions of "proper handling of classified material" in that thread that have all by now slunk away to their safe spaces.
     
subego
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Aug 12, 2022, 01:51 PM
 
After a quick skim, I felt I did okay.
     
reader50
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Aug 12, 2022, 07:03 PM
 
Summary after the Warrant and Inventory were released.

The warrant covers 3 crimes:
• Violations of the Espionage Act
• Obstruction of justice
• Criminal handling of government records

The violations are not spelled out in detail.

11 "sets" of documents were removed during the search:
• 1 set of "top secret/SCI" documents
• 4 sets of "top secret" documents
• 3 sets of "secret" documents
• 3 sets of "confidential" documents.
• Some misc items (binders of photos, a pardon note, stuff about the President of France)

Few details were reported on the contents, and no details about nuclear secrets. As the FBI removed "more than 20 boxes" of documents, it follows that a related "set" was at least a box apiece. It's unclear if they mean shoe boxes, or banker boxes.

My uninformed guess is the Obstruction part covers playing keep-away with all those records. Recall that the National Archives recovered 15 boxes of records from Mar-a-Lago months ago. So Trump hung onto all the current records, which should have been recovered back when.

Criminal handling of gov records could mean destruction and/or insecure storage. I'm guessing it's about storage in an insecure location, and having them without cause. The Espionage part might apply to intent to distribute to someone else. Or just possession of national security secrets without authorization.
( Last edited by reader50; Aug 12, 2022 at 09:03 PM. )
     
reader50
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Aug 12, 2022, 09:16 PM
 
You can read the actual documents here. A 7-page PDF.

page 1: order to release the warrant, attachments, and inventory.
page 2: the basic Warrant
page 3: Attachment A - locations to be searched
page 4: Attachment B - the charges (in legal section numbers) and description of what they're looking for
page 5: Inventory of what they got (page 1)
page 6: Inventory (page 2)
page 7: Inventory (page 3)
     
Waragainstsleep
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Aug 13, 2022, 02:50 PM
 
From what I heard the statute that bans people convicted of one of the crimes Trump might be charged with from holding office might be overrule by the constitution which has no restriction on convicted felons being president. I assume this means the SCOTUS will rule on this if it comes to it. Which makes me wonder, can someone be elected POTUS while they are serving a prison term? And then pardon themselves?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
reader50
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Aug 13, 2022, 04:28 PM
 
There is good legal logic that one cannot pardon ones self. I don't know the answers to the other questions.
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Aug 13, 2022, 10:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Which makes me wonder, can someone be elected POTUS while they are serving a prison term? And then pardon themselves?
Eugene V. Debs quite famously ran for president in 1920 while in federal prison. He had made speeches opposing the WWI draft, and was found guilty of sedition. He garnered just over 3% of the vote.

I’m not sure about being able to pardon themselves, though. I mean, I doubt there’s anything specific in the constitution, sooo
     
reader50
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Aug 14, 2022, 12:26 AM
 
Regarding a President pardoning himself.

US Constitution, Article Two, Section 2.
The President ... shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of impeachment.
A "grant" implies two parties. The grantor (pardoner) and the grantee (recipient). This implies s/he can only pardon other people.

Also, if he can pardon himself, then he's above the (Federal) law. Rob a liquor store, get back to the White House, write up the pardon. Do the same at Burger King the next day. Want some jewelry? Just find the right store, and keep the Pardon pad ready. Oh, and kill people you dislike too. Just be quick with the pardons.
Note: he'd better make sure all crimes take place in Federal jurisdiction, like DC. Or make sure the crimes are exclusively Federal. He doesn't have pardon power over State crimes.

Then there is Article 1, Section 9, Clause 8:
No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States; ...
There will be no Kings in the USA.

When Prez Nixon was facing impeachment, he asked his office of legal counsel if he could pardon himself. They wrote back "No". Shortly thereafter, Nixon resigned and was promptly pardoned by (former) VP Ford. It's suspected that they had a deal. Quick accession to the presidency, in exchange for a quick pardon.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Aug 14, 2022, 06:43 AM
 
Hopefully the SC has the integrity to uphold that logic. It certainly would be a very slippery slope (or precipitous drop) to give a POTUS that power. Especially Trump. I could see him planning a red wedding for the entire democratic party. If not actually going through with it.

Anyone got any thoughts on the hilarious but possibly worth looking into theory that he buried some classified docs with Ivana's casket?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
MacNNFamous
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Aug 14, 2022, 11:19 AM
 
You guys see that cuck who attacked the FBI died for this? LMFAAOOOOOO
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Aug 14, 2022, 03:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by MacNNFamous View Post
You guys see that cuck who attacked the FBI died for this? LMFAAOOOOOO
The one in Cincinnati? I hadn’t heard they killed him. I guess the QOP has a new martyr.
     
MacNNFamous
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Aug 14, 2022, 05:47 PM
 
Don't worry another one attacked the capital this morning. Also dead. I love this. Keep it up!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...864_story.html

If we could get a large group of them together, with weapons, then just fire ze missiles, that would be so awesome.
     
subego
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Aug 14, 2022, 06:00 PM
 
He didn’t even force anyone to shoot him. Very courteous.
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Sep 8, 2022, 08:49 AM
 
Ugh. The judge went and bought into Trump’s attorneys’ request for a special master. The first step down the bottomless rabbit hole of delay and obfuscation. Might as well just close the case right now. Fucker’s never going to feel any heat over this bit of treason.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Sep 8, 2022, 10:59 AM
 
I reckon he'll die of old age before he's ever forced to assume responsibility.

Though the NYC DA might get to fuck him over his real estate tax fraud, at least.
     
andi*pandi
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Sep 8, 2022, 01:24 PM
 
He appointed all those judges for just such an occasion.
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Sep 8, 2022, 02:22 PM
 
Say what you will about the guy, he's an excellent mob boss.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Sep 8, 2022, 09:25 PM
 
Apparently DOJ is appealing the ruling on the Special Master.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Sep 9, 2022, 09:08 AM
 
Thing is, the judge ruled so broadly that the FBI has had to suspend their investigation until this derailment has been settled. And, of course, should the DOJ win their appeal, Trump’s lawyers will appeal the appeal, and the delay will continue.
     
reader50
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Sep 9, 2022, 12:32 PM
 
It depends on how the appeal ruling goes. If the Appeals court rules for the government, and doesn't suspend their own ruling pending further appeal - the investigation resumes. If the Appeals court feels the Special Master stuff has no merit, they might not suspend their ruling.

btw - the intelligence assessment of docs was allowed to continue all along. That's probably the most damaging aspect, so the prosecutors aren't losing as much time as you'd think.
     
OreoCookie
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Sep 9, 2022, 10:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
btw - the intelligence assessment of docs was allowed to continue all along. That's probably the most damaging aspect, so the prosecutors aren't losing as much time as you'd think.
As far as I understand some of the other random documents serve only as evidence that privileged information was kept loosely with random documents. The content of these documents is secondary.

IMHO this whole episode is a red herring: yes, the reasoning the judge’s order is based on seems shoddy, but I think that will just delay the inevitable.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Sep 10, 2022, 07:43 AM
 
I heard the DOJ is still looking into more documents being kept, presumably in his other properties. I'm guessing thats those empty Top Secret folders they found. Surprised they haven't raided Trump Tower already tbh.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
   
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