[Lerkfish]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...sh_2&printer=1

Benjamin Ginsberg's acknowledgment marks the second time in days that an individual associated with the Bush-Cheney campaign has been connected to the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, which Kerry accuses of being a front for the Republican incumbent's re-election effort.

The Bush campaign and the veterans' group say there is no coordination.

The group "came to me and said, 'We have a point of view we want to get into the First Amendment debate right now. There's a new law. It's very complicated. We want to comply with the law, will you keep us in the bounds of the law?'" Ginsberg said in an interview with The Associated Press. "I said yes, absolutely, as I would do for anyone."

Ginsberg said he never told the Bush campaign what he discussed with the group, or vice versa, and doesn't advise the group on ad strategies.

"They have legal questions and when they have legal questions I answer them," Ginsberg said. He said he had not yet decided whether to charge the Swift Boat Veterans a fee for his work.

Kerry's presidential campaign last week filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission (news - web sites) accusing the Bush campaign and the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth of illegally coordinating the group's ads. The ads allege Kerry has lied about his decorated Vietnam War service; the group's accounts in a television ad have been disputed by Navy records and veterans who served on Kerry's boat.

"It's another piece of the mounting evidence of the ties between the Bush campaign and this group," Kerry campaign spokesman Chad Clanton said of Ginsberg's admission. "The longer President Bush waits to specifically condemn this smear, the more it looks like his campaign is behind it."

On Saturday, retired Air Force Col. Ken Cordier resigned as a member of the Bush campaign's veterans' steering committee after it was learned that he appeared in the Swift Boat veterans' commercial.

Kerry, meanwhile, is the subject of complaints by the Bush campaign and the Republican National Committee (news - web sites) accusing his campaign of illegally coordinating anti-Bush ads with soft-money groups on the Democratic side, allegations he and the groups deny.

Ginsberg also represented the Bush campaign in 2000 and became a prominent figure during the Florida recount.

He also served as counsel to the RNC in its unsuccessful lawsuit seeking to overturn the nation's campaign finance law, which banned the national party committees from collecting corporate, union and unlimited donations known as soft money and imposed stricter rules on coordination involving parties, candidates and interest groups.

Ginsberg contends that by offering legal advice to both the Bush campaign and the Swift Boat group, he has done nothing different than other election lawyers in Washington, including attorneys for Kerry and the Democratic National Committee (news - web sites) who have also advised soft-money groups. Representing campaigns, parties and outside groups simultaneously is legal and allowed under the law and by the FEC, he said.

"The truth is there is only a handful of lawyers who live and breathe this law. And so because the coordination rules do not include legal services among the prohibited coordinated activities, we provide legal service," Ginsberg said.

Larry Noble, head of the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics campaign watchdog group and former FEC general counsel, said it's true that serving as a lawyer for both a campaign and a soft-money group isn't considered automatic evidence of coordination under commission rules, but added that it doesn't mean the FEC won't look at it.

"I think there's a valid question about when you're talking about strictly legal advice and when you're talking about policy issues and strategic issues," Noble said. "It's fair to ask what the advice is about."

Joe Sandler, a lawyer for the DNC and a group running anti-Bush ads, MoveOn.org, said there is nothing wrong with serving in both roles at once.

In addition to the FEC's coordination rules, attorneys are ethically bound to maintain attorney-client confidentiality, Sandler said. They could lose their law license if they violate that, he said.

There is potentially nothing wrong with this..but the connections keep mounting.
The only clearly suspicious item is the claim he did not charge them for legal advice. Do you know any high powered lawyers that fail to charge a client? Since the swift boat liars had huge financial backing from Perry and others, its inconceivable they could be looked upon as indigent.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
Do you know any high powered lawyers that fail to charge a client?

Uh, yes. All of them. It's called pro bono work, and it is strongly encouraged within the profession.

[Spliffdaddy]

17 threads on the first page.

All from one person.

All relating to the subject of swiftboats.

I guess those commercials hit their mark perfectly.



If Dubya sucks so bad, why all the worry about Kerry?

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:


17 threads on the first page.

All from one person.

All relating to the subject of swiftboats.

I guess those commercials hit their mark perfectly.



If Dubya sucks so bad, why all the worry about Kerry?

Uh huh. This is great. Pass the Milk Duds�, and the bong.

[Dr.HermanG.]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:


17 threads on the first page.

All from one person.

All relating to the subject of swiftboats.

I guess those commercials hit their mark perfectly.



If Dubya sucks so bad, why all the worry about Kerry?

LMAO!

[Sock Puppet Theater]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
17 threads on the first page.
All from one person.
All relating to the subject of swiftboats.
I guess those commercials hit their mark perfectly.

Sort of like the dozen or so Michael Moore threads that Zimphire and Pachead started when the film was released. Guess it was effective too.

The sheer number of threads about this (and Moore) is annoying though. Ain't there something else to talk about?

[Spliffdaddy]

we're gonna by-God discuss this swiftboat crap until Kerry comes out smelling like a rose.

Get comfortable.

[vmarks]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
Since the swift boat liars had huge financial backing from Perry and others, its inconceivable they could be looked upon as indigent.

Huge financial backing?

Let's see.

MoveOn.org: 2004 Election Cycle.


527 Activity:
Total Receipts: $9,086,102
Total Expenditures: $17,435,782


Swift Boat Veterans for Truth: 2004 Election Cycle.


527 Activity:
Total Receipts: $158,750
Total Expenditures: $60,403

Furthermore: the Bush campaign has no links to or involvement with the Swift Vets. They're operating independently of the campaign. Yet Kerry and Teresa Heinz-Kerry have actually appeared at MoveOn functions, if the johnkerry.com/blog is accurate. It seems to me that the Kerry supporters just can't stand that there be a voice of dissent, even if it's funded far far less than their own favorites.

[Spliffdaddy]

In typical liberal fashion, Move-on.org spent twice as much money as they took in.

[tie]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
In typical liberal fashion, Move-on.org spent twice as much money as they took in.

In typical right-wing fashion, Spliff has no idea what he's talking about. I guess you haven't checked federal budget numbers lately.

These crooks lie left and right. Typically, their stories are completely falling apart. Just like all the fake WMD stories we've heard. The same gullible sheep who fell for those fantasies fell for this one.

[typoon]

Originally posted by tie:
In typical right-wing fashion, Spliff has no idea what he's talking about. I guess you haven't checked federal budget numbers lately.

These crooks lie left and right. Typically, their stories are completely falling apart. Just like all the fake WMD stories we've heard. The same gullible sheep who fell for those fantasies fell for this one.

I don't know if their stories are falling apart. They have remaind consistant so far and Kerry is the one who has changed his story several times on the events that happened. If they are liars how come Kerry hasn't sued them for slander? Some of the guys making the claims were with his boat or in boats in the same contingent as his when they were in country.

Kerry said that the other boats ran away while his stayed but the facts were that his ran while the others were working on helping the disabled boat. Kerry keeps changing his story on the events that happened there as well as those that happened while he says he was in cambodia.

[Spliffdaddy]

"Joe Sandler, a lawyer for the DNC and a group running anti-Bush ads, MoveOn.org, said there is nothing wrong with serving in both roles at once."

[Lerkfish]

THIS JUST IN....

Lawyer Advising Vets Quits Bush Campaign


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ans_group_bush

WASHINGTON - An election lawyer for President Bush (news - web sites) who also has been advising a veterans group running TV ads against Democrat John Kerry (news - web sites) resigned Wednesday from Bush's campaign.

"I cannot begin to express my sadness that my legal representations have become a distraction from the critical issues at hand in this election," Benjamin Ginsberg wrote in a resignation letter to Bush released by the campaign.


"I feel I cannot let that continue, so I have decided to resign as national counsel to your campaign to ensure that the giving of legal advice to decorated military veterans, which was entirely within the boundaries of the law, doesn't distract from the real issues upon which you and the country should be focusing."

Ginsberg's acknowledgment Tuesday evening that he was providing legal advice to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth marked the second time in days that a person associated with the Bush-Cheney campaign had been connected to the group, which Kerry accuses of being a front for the Republican incumbent's re-election effort.

The Bush campaign and the veterans' group have said repeatedly that there is no coordination.

Lawyers on the Democratic side are also representing both the campaign or party and outside groups running ads in the presidential race. Ginsberg's dual role has drawn attention because of an ad the Swift Boat Veterans group ran accusing Kerry of exaggerating his Vietnam War record, an issue that has dominated the campaign since early August.

Kerry has fired back by accusing Bush of using the group to run a smear campaign for him. Democrats have jumped on any tie, even if legal, to back up that claim.


...He also served as counsel to the RNC in its unsuccessful lawsuit seeking to overturn the new federal campaign finance law, which banned the national party committees from collecting corporate and union contributions and unlimited donations known as soft money and imposed stricter rules on coordination involving parties, candidates and interest groups.

Larry Noble, head of the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics campaign watchdog group and former FEC general counsel, said it's true that serving as a lawyer for both a campaign and a soft-money group isn't considered automatic evidence of coordination under commission rules, but he added that it doesn't mean the FEC won't look at it.

"I think there's a valid question about when you're talking about strictly legal advice and when you're talking about policy issues and strategic issues," Noble said. "It's fair to ask what the advice is about."

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
THIS JUST IN....

Lawyer Advising Vets Quits Bush Campaign

This just in: so what?

Most lawyers have multiple clients. That is not collusive. Many lawyers also have interests outside of the law. That isn't collusive either.