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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > iPhone, iPad & iPod > Apple tablet / netbook / large iPhone is coming for real

Apple tablet / netbook / large iPhone is coming for real (Page 5)
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turtle777  (op)
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Jan 12, 2010, 04:54 PM
 
Cool stuff.

Just when the competition gets their act together regarding multi-touch Gen 1 (like in iPhone & iPod Touch), Apple is moving on to the next generation.

-t
     
Chuckit
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Jan 12, 2010, 04:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Just because something comes from Apple doesn't mean we're all going to love it.

eg: One-button mouse.

I don't see a *NEED* for a tablet except for *MAYBE* reading and *MAYBE* sketching. Other than that, my laptop's great because I have a real keyboard on it for writing.
The one-button mouse was pretty neat when Apple first introduced it, at least as far as its ability to control the Mac was concerned.
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Big Mac
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Jan 12, 2010, 05:07 PM
 
A better example of failed Apple designs is the iMac puck mouse.

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olePigeon
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Jan 12, 2010, 05:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
A better example of failed Apple designs is the iMac puck mouse.
And the Macintosh Portable, which was very quickly remedied with the PowerBook, a device that set the form and functional standard for nearly all laptops to this present day.

John Dvorak thought the mouse in general was a horrible, stupid idea. Same with the GUI.
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glideslope
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Jan 12, 2010, 05:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
A better example of failed Apple designs is the iMac puck mouse.
OMG, I remember those. Man did I hate it.
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freudling
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Jan 12, 2010, 05:29 PM
 
Comparing a one-button mouse to a completely new computing paradigm is a bit of a diversion.

The tablet is, in my opinion, huge. It's a completely new computing paradigm.

As for a one button mouse, they got it right with the Magic Mouse.
     
Phileas
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Jan 12, 2010, 06:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Just because something comes from Apple doesn't mean we're all going to love it.

eg: One-button mouse.

I don't see a *NEED* for a tablet except for *MAYBE* reading and *MAYBE* sketching. Other than that, my laptop's great because I have a real keyboard on it for writing.
See Henry Ford's quote above. Asking consumers what they need is the quickest path to non-innovation.
     
Simon
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Jan 12, 2010, 07:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
What's it supposed to do to impress you ?
Umm, for starters be more than just a $1k large iPhone.

You see the iPhone is ~$400 and the MBP is ~$1k. For this device to fit in anywhere between it would have to be below $700. At $1k you'd be an idiot to buy the tablet and be forced to use iPhone OS and App Store instead of just getting a proper MBP that runs full OS X and all your regular apps.

It's similar to the MBA situation. I'd gladly pay $2k for a smaller and lighter MBA (11", no bezel, SSD). But as it is now, I'd rather get the much cheaper 13" MBP. For my kind of use the MBA just doesn't offer enough added value to justify paying much more (and compromising so much on ports).

Obviously we'll have to wait and see what the exact specs are until we judge it. I'm merely saying that if it turns out to be nothing but a large iPhone for $1k it's going to flop. Cube style. Zero doubt.
     
freudling
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Jan 12, 2010, 09:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
Umm, for starters be more than just a $1k large iPhone.

You see the iPhone is ~$400 and the MBP is ~$1k. For this device to fit in anywhere between it would have to be below $700. At $1k you'd be an idiot to buy the tablet and be forced to use iPhone OS and App Store instead of just getting a proper MBP that runs full OS X and all your regular apps.

It's similar to the MBA situation. I'd gladly pay $2k for a smaller and lighter MBA (11", no bezel, SSD). But as it is now, I'd rather get the much cheaper 13" MBP. For my kind of use the MBA just doesn't offer enough added value to justify paying much more (and compromising so much on ports).

Obviously we'll have to wait and see what the exact specs are until we judge it. I'm merely saying that if it turns out to be nothing but a large iPhone for $1k it's going to flop. Cube style. Zero doubt.
Simon:

It won't be a large iPhone. I am pretty sure you know that. The large iPhone rumors are just silly, and don't reflect the end product. At the most, they are slapped together prototypes. This is am 99.9% certain of. With all of the leaks, both intentional and unintentional, with all the tablet related patents, with all indications that this is going to be a revolutionary, new, multi-touch interface a la Fingerworks, a breakthrough product is on the horizon.

People will pay for it. At what price point I don't know, but if the tablet is everything we think it will be, there is going to be lots of value in it. Comparing it to a standard laptop can end in confusion. It's its own thing, with its own set of uses. But rest assured, I am sure, for the first year, that a lot of people will be juxtaposing it against laptops until all that fades and people just accept it and start using it.
     
Wiskedjak
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Jan 12, 2010, 09:03 PM
 
Agreed. At $1000 it needs to run OSX rather than iPhoneOS.
     
slugslugslug
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Jan 12, 2010, 09:25 PM
 
Jeebus, if it’s a tablet, it’s not going to run Mac OS X. This is why new form factors from Microsoft and partners are doomed to irrelevance. Mac OS X and Windows XP/Vista/7 are designed to be used with an offscreen, precise pointing device and keyboards (with modifier keys). When you just bolt on a stylus or multitouch interface, it’s pointless. Maybe you can make new applications to work with the form factor, or there are a few existing apps that can adapt. But for the most part, the big spectrum of existing software that’s grown up around the UI just gets less useful.

This thing will not run Mac OS X.
     
Andy8
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Jan 12, 2010, 09:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by slugslugslug View Post
This thing will not run Mac OS X.
iTablet OS™
     
freudling
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Jan 12, 2010, 10:32 PM
 
slugslugslug:

I agree, well said.
     
Wiskedjak
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Jan 12, 2010, 10:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by slugslugslug View Post
Jeebus, if it’s a tablet, it’s not going to run Mac OS X. This is why new form factors from Microsoft and partners are doomed to irrelevance. Mac OS X and Windows XP/Vista/7 are designed to be used with an offscreen, precise pointing device and keyboards (with modifier keys). When you just bolt on a stylus or multitouch interface, it’s pointless. Maybe you can make new applications to work with the form factor, or there are a few existing apps that can adapt. But for the most part, the big spectrum of existing software that’s grown up around the UI just gets less useful.

This thing will not run Mac OS X.
Exactly. But, the iPhoneOS doesn't offer enough functionality for $1000 on any hardware platform.
( Last edited by Wiskedjak; Jan 12, 2010 at 10:48 PM. )
     
turtle777  (op)
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Jan 12, 2010, 10:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Exactly. But, the iPhoneOS doesn't offer enough functionality for $1000 on any hardware platform.
Yeah, the age-old "Apple is too expensive" crowd.

That's what they said about the iPod, and then the iPhone. Meanwhile, Apple went broke.

-t
     
Wiskedjak
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Jan 12, 2010, 10:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Yeah, the age-old "Apple is too expensive" crowd.

That's what they said about the iPod, and then the iPhone. Meanwhile, Apple went broke.

-t
Not at all. I'm more than willing to pay a premium for an Apple product, but for $1000, I want to be able to run *any* application developed for the platform, not just the ones approved by Apple. And, I'm not saying that people won't flock to it in droves either way. I've no doubt that Apple could release and sell out a pile of crap with an Apple logo on it.
     
slugslugslug
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Jan 12, 2010, 10:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Exactly. But, the iPhoneOS doesn't offer enough functionality for $1000 on any hardware platform.
Well it’s not necessarily going to be precisely the iPhone OS, either. I mean, that was part of my point: they’re going to make sure the UI fits the physical form. Of course, I’m not really sure what they can add besides real multitasking and perhaps a better text-input method. But even just those things, along with screen size make it suddenly much better for creating/editing content than the iPhone.

But yeah, I’m having a hard time figuring out what wouldn’t make $1000 seem like a lot. I’m still betting that if there’s a $999 price, it won’t be the sole or low-end model. Also, there could still be that missing something that makes $799 seem like a bargain.

Also, I know it won’t be just a giant iPod touch. But I don’t think it’ll be as shocking as the original iPhone. That is, it’ll be more like a big iPod touch than the iPhone was like a scroll-wheel iPod that makes calls.
     
turtle777  (op)
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Jan 12, 2010, 10:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Not at all. I'm more than willing to pay a premium for an Apple product, but for $1000, I want to be able to run *any* application developed for the platform, not just the ones approved by Apple.
Then get a MBP.

Whatever Apple will present is NOT going to be a MBP replacement and cannibalize their laptop line.

As long as the price is not known, it's useless to argue about how much is reasonable or not. But if Apple really wants to go in the direction of a multi-media reader/player, then they have an audience in mind more like iPod and iPhone users (which don't care about an OS and OS specific apps - rather, they care about it just working).

I really don't understand why people think that Apple will just create another tablet PC.
Tablet PCs failed for a reason. Nobody needs a full-blown OS on a tablet PC, because those full-blown OSes don't work with a tablet paradigm.

-t
     
slugslugslug
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Jan 12, 2010, 11:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Not at all. I'm more than willing to pay a premium for an Apple product, but for $1000, I want to be able to run *any* application developed for the platform, not just the ones approved by Apple.
I definitely feel you there. Seems like most of the really well-thought-out prediction articles (to which I’m too lazy to link) are leaning towards it going that way. I think that’s more likely than the desktop model. But I also hold out a tiny glimmer of hope that Apple thinks of this as a real general-purpose computing platform and will let people get apps onto it however they want. I mean, they certainly don’t have the “hey, we need to make sure the phone still works” excuse anymore.
And, I'm not saying that people won't flock to it in droves either way. I've no doubt that Apple could release and sell out a pile of crap with an Apple logo on it.
I might buy one even if it’s underwhelming and overpriced (but not if it’s both of those and tied to another data plan). I need something to manage and read PDFs on, and whatever cool multimedia/app functionality is on this thing will make me rationalize the upsell over an e-reader.
     
Wiskedjak
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Jan 12, 2010, 11:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Then get a MBP.

Whatever Apple will present is NOT going to be a MBP replacement and cannibalize their laptop line.

As long as the price is not known, it's useless to argue about how much is reasonable or not. But if Apple really wants to go in the direction of a multi-media reader/player, then they have an audience in mind more like iPod and iPhone users (which don't care about an OS and OS specific apps - rather, they care about it just working).

I really don't understand why people think that Apple will just create another tablet PC.
Tablet PCs failed for a reason. Nobody needs a full-blown OS on a tablet PC, because those full-blown OSes don't work with a tablet paradigm.

-t
The *last* thing I think Apple will release will be a larger iPod Touch or Tablet PC. But, at the $1000 price range it would have to be frickin' amazing for me to consider spending the cash on it.
     
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Jan 13, 2010, 10:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
The *last* thing I think Apple will release will be a larger iPod Touch or Tablet PC. But, at the $1000 price range it would have to be frickin' amazing for me to consider spending the cash on it.
Bingo.

Oh and while I agree Apple WILL create a unique product, I think it's foolish to count their eggs before they're hatched. Apple often has products that are either commercial failures or else at best limited successes, including in recent times. These include things like Apple servers, AppleTV, and the MacBook Air. I think the MacBook Air is actually a pretty nice machine, but for $1500 I'm not at all interested, esp. since in many ways it's a glorified netbook which actually is too big to be a netbook. Even the Mac Pro is dying a slow death these days, because of their too rigid price / features strata.


Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Yeah, the age-old "Apple is too expensive" crowd.

That's what they said about the iPod, and then the iPhone. Meanwhile, Apple went broke.
Only the idiots said that for the iPhone. Most of the phone geeks thought the iPhone would almost be a no-brainer for at worst moderate success. What makes the idiots even more stupid there was the fact the iPhone was in the same ballpark price-wise as any other feature-rich smartphone.

For the iPod many did indeed say that, but the interesting part is that Apple did in fact have to drop prices dramatically to expand their market.
( Last edited by Eug; Jan 13, 2010 at 11:06 AM. )
     
Simon
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Jan 13, 2010, 11:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
The *last* thing I think Apple will release will be a larger iPod Touch or Tablet PC. But, at the $1000 price range it would have to be frickin' amazing for me to consider spending the cash on it.
QFT.

The problem is that for ~$1k you can already get a 13" MB(P) which does most things quite well. Some people might want smaller and/or simpler, but then they will also want to pay less. The iPod touch is a good example. And consequently it's also a whole lot cheaper. A device that comes in between in terms of size would also have to be priced somewhere in between. Nobody in their right mind is going to pay as much for a dumbed down tablet (that forces you to go thru App Store!) as they pay for a MB(P).

If Apple launches this device at $1k it's going to have to offer new and added value. Stuff that people can't get from an iPod touch or a MBP. If not, it will most certainly fail.
     
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Jan 13, 2010, 11:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
As for a one button mouse, they got it right with the Magic Mouse.
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Eug
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Jan 13, 2010, 11:36 AM
 
The Magic Mouse is pretty good. I do get some Bluetooth issues with it though, with my brand new Core i7. Once in a while it will lose the connection. For this reason I'd rather just buy a wired Magic Mouse. Too bad they don't exist.

However, as nice as the Magic Mouse is, it's partially because they've had lots of practice, including some dismal failures, or at least ones of questionable design, including the puck mouse and the Mighty Mouse.
     
slugslugslug
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Jan 13, 2010, 12:04 PM
 
I had an idea for The Tablet’s text input that I haven’t heard in a while. But it seems a) faster than just a bigger or split onscreen keyboard and b) inappropriate at iPhone size. I went off about it on my blog, but since literally nobody reads that (with only 8 posts, I haven’t even bothered telling friends about it), I’ll mention the rough idea here:

Make the whole case touch sensitive. Users can type on the back with 4 fingers per hand while holding the edges of the screen with the heels of their palms, allowing use of thumbs in the front. Try it with a book, it’s totally natural. There’d be a bit of a learning curve, but not more than with an ordinary desktop/laptop keyboard, and it should be blazing fast compared to iPhone input. There are big open questions, like what exactly would show up on the screen while you’re in rear type mode, and how calibration/learning would work. But those are the kinds of thing Apple is good at and which take such attention to detail that a lot of lesser companies would have a hell of a time pulling it off when the inevitable copycats come out.
( Last edited by slugslugslug; Jan 13, 2010 at 12:51 PM. Reason: Always forget how to use the [url] bbCode…)
     
ajprice
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Jan 13, 2010, 12:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Exactly. But, the iPhoneOS doesn't offer enough functionality for $1000 on any hardware platform.
iPhone OS 3.x might not, but that was only ever meant for the iPhone/iPod touch, there's only so much you can do with that hardware. iPhone OS 4.0 is out to developers and built for bigger screen sizes as well as iPhone resolution. Between the (possible) features of the tablet like dual core ARM processor, better graphics hardware, and the Fingerworks features, the tablet OS is going to be a lot more than OS 3.x is.

The original iPhone doesn't run all of the features of OS 3, this might carry on with earlier iPhones and touches not being able to do everything in OS 4.

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
turtle777  (op)
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Jan 13, 2010, 02:22 PM
 
As all Gen 1 products from Apple, the price will be perceived to be too high.

Why ? Because Apple can, and because Apple doesn't have the economies of scale yet.

Later, the price will come down.

So, $ 1,000 shouldn't be a surprise.
A surprise would be a price where people would not bitch. That has never happened with a completely new kind of product from Apple.

-t
     
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Jan 13, 2010, 02:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Remember how people ridiculed the all-one trackpad sans button? Then opposed it by convincing themselves they wouldn't buy. Now, all-one trackpads, their utility, is self-evident.
Not really. Did anyone ridicule it? I only remember people raving about how brilliant it was.

Remember how people ridiculed the virtual keyboard on the iPhone? "I want a physical keyboard, the iPhone is going to flunk because it doesn't have a physical keyboard!" Then this was opposed by people convincing themselves they weren't going to buy it. Now, multi-touch, screen-only smartphones are becoming normative: the utility is self-evident.
Doesn’t mean a physical keyboard wouldn’t be nice. The lack of tactile feedback is pretty much the only real gripe I have with the iPhone. Multi-touch and screen-only smartphones are very neat (and most people said so from the start, too); but for typing purposes, still inferior to a physical keyboard.
     
freudling
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Jan 13, 2010, 06:32 PM
 
I can see people are grappling with features/value. If you read through this entire thread, you will have a very good idea of what exactly this tablet will be like and what it means for consumers and the computer industry. This is a new paradigm of computing. If you have given it some thought, when you factor in a new multi-touch interface with a new form factor - the tablet - brand new uses prop up that are not apparent to the layman.

Now, with a tablet, instead of having a pseudo-typewriter burning a whole in your legs when you are on the couch... you can sit back, bring the computer close to your face, and touch it, all over.

It's the change in form factor that catapults this into new areas of use, like reading, like ingesting information. It's a much better device for this than a laptop. It matches perfectly to the information age. And after all the dust has settled, we will look back and see how antiquated laptops really are for many of these uses that a tablet excels at.

And slugslugslug:

Your comments about being able to touch type on the back of the tablet is something that is not new. That has been mentioned in the media many times over the past several years, and some even speculated that the iPhone 3GS would have that functionality.

In order for that to work decently, haptic feedback is really a must (i.e. localized vibrations or changes in the surface). And yes, the software can localize and display "finger prints" on the screen so you know where your fingers are in relation to the keyboard, but it still will require you to look at the keyboard: not really possible to touch type.

Inputing larger amounts of information on this is something that should be better on this than on the iPhone though because the virtual keyboard will be bigger, but it's a focused device. Once tablets hit hard, we can break up computing into 2 tasks: when we input lots of information and when we ingest. We'll turn to tablets for the latter, and laptops and desktops for the former. Laptops and desktops are good at what they were created for: they are leftovers from the age of productivity.

My prediction is that Apple will provide us with a unique solution to typing on the Tablet, but what will take off is speech in conjunction with Bluetooth headsets. Speech recognition with MacSpeech Dictate can get you over 160 words per minute. When it works, it's the fastest text input method available. Of course this can't replace a keyboard, but more people will take to it. Then, we can use speech and the virtual keyboard when we see fit.

But since there are so many other uses for the Tablet, the whole "typing on a tablet problem" will not be as big a deal as some have made it out to be. And inputing text on a tablet has already been solved for many tasks.

Predictive text. When you type something into Google, after just a few letters, up pops suggestions. Those suggestions... usually there is one in the list that matches what you are searching for. So instead of having to type the whole thing out, you can get away with just typing a few letters. This makes the tablet that much more tenable for web surfing. Same thing with iTunes, for instance.

So for web surfing, iTunes surfing... shopping for music and video, hanging out on Amazon... reading Blogs... reading all those RSS feeds from NetNewsWire... reading reports for work... reading magazines and newspapers... reading a book... typing quick Emails... creating in Photoshop... researching in a library... writing longer Emails with speech recognition... social 'mediaing'... managing your calendar... on and on. The multi-touch tablet is a winner.
     
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Jan 13, 2010, 06:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Oisín View Post
Not really. Did anyone ridicule it? I only remember people raving about how brilliant it was.

Doesn’t mean a physical keyboard wouldn’t be nice. The lack of tactile feedback is pretty much the only real gripe I have with the iPhone. Multi-touch and screen-only smartphones are very neat (and most people said so from the start, too); but for typing purposes, still inferior to a physical keyboard.
My answer to your first question: yes they ridiculed it. Speaking of memory, I only remember how kind George Bush Jr. was.

As for your second point, that is only your opinion. For me, the virtual keyboard on the iPhone is superior to a physical keyboard. I am typing faster and it's more intuitive. But my point was, that people, that pundits, ridiculed it for having a virtual keyboard and that the market will demand physical keyboards.
     
slugslugslug
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Jan 13, 2010, 07:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
And slugslugslug:

Your comments about being able to touch type on the back of the tablet is something that is not new. That has been mentioned in the media many times over the past several years, and some even speculated that the iPhone 3GS would have that functionality.
I know it’s not totally new, though I wasn’t that clear about it in the above post. But I did say I hadn’t heard about it “for a while.” That is, I was pretty sure I’d seen the idea before but wasn’t sure where. I’ve since found the AppleInsider article where I first heard the idea. Anyway, apologies if I gave the impression that I came up with this totally independently. OTOH, it seems to have completely slipped off people’s radar in the run-up to the current frenzy of speculation.

In order for that to work decently, haptic feedback is really a must (i.e. localized vibrations or changes in the surface). And yes, the software can localize and display "finger prints" on the screen so you know where your fingers are in relation to the keyboard, but it still will require you to look at the keyboard: not really possible to touch type.
I’m not sure I agree on the importance of haptic. Given the size of the screen, I think the targets can be far enough apart that you don’t have to worry as much about hitting them spot on. And I think a little bit of training for both the human and the device will make it pretty easy to know where your fingers are relative to where The Tablet is sensing them. Feedback would be cool nonetheless; and that articulating frame from the recent patent might work on the back, since it’s not like the back was going to be glass.

As for the part about having to look at the keyboard, I’m not sure I follow you. If the keyboard’s on the screen, it’s where you’d be looking anyway. Who cares if you can’t “touch type”? Though I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that some folks could type on such a thing without looking.
     
freudling
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Jan 13, 2010, 09:03 PM
 
Hi slugslugslug:

You make some good points. I guess my implication about touch typing is that it will be hard to match the speed a person can get on a physical keyboard in comparison to a virtual keyboard that does not have haptic feedback. With the iPhone I am faster than with a physical keyboard on a phone. But we are talking about a full-scale keyboard.

When you take haptic feedback out of the equation, it is extremely difficult for the user to localize their fingers on a virtual keyboard without looking.

I have tested this on different touchscreen computers. Just the other day I tested Sony's latest touchscreen desktop computer. It is virtually impossible for me to keep my fingers properly localized while typing without constantly looking at the keyboard. What's important here is that we see what we are typing on the screen as we are typing it. I'm not saying we can't adapt, it's just that a user can't really keep their fingers localized on a virtual, full-size keyboard without the haptic feedback.

But you bring up something that gives me an idea. Perhaps you and others have already thought of this:

You said:

"And I think a little bit of training for both the human and the device will make it pretty easy to know where your fingers are relative to where The Tablet is sensing them"

Imagine a multi-touch tablet, with an 11" screen, that has a virtual keyboard. And imagine that virtual keyboard could "follow" your hands while you are typing so that the keyboard is always properly localized in relation to your 8 fingers, 2 thumbs, 2 palms, and home row. A virtual keyboard that knows when you are typing, and knows that the home row would thus become a reference point while you are typing. If your palms start slipping upwards, for instance, the keyword would adjust itself upwards to keep all the keys properly localized in relation to your fingers. This way, moving your hands slightly, by accident or through intent, you can rest assured that the keys under your fingers will be the right ones. Thus, you could potentially touch type with this.

This might be accomplished by programming, with the proper sensors, the distance between a persons palms and the home row. In this way, the device would ask you to place your hands, naturally, on the virtual keyboard, and it would "learn" about your hands... calculating the distance between your palms and the homerow, for example. It would then attempt, during use, to keep that same distance at all times, thereby engendering this automatic readjustment feature.

Just an idea, and I am sure someone, or one or many of you, have already thought of this.
     
Wiskedjak
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Jan 13, 2010, 09:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Bingo.

Oh and while I agree Apple WILL create a unique product, I think it's foolish to count their eggs before they're hatched.
Agreed. This is why I think any speculation about the device is completely futile. Apple will release one of two things: something we can anticipate, but has a high likelihood of flopping as a result, and something completely unexpected which has a high likelihood of raving success.

- Tablet PCs aren't new and have always been "meh" products. Apple isn't going to release another tablet PC.
- What's the added value of a larger iPhone/iPod Touch? The same functionality with none of the portability? Apple isn't going to release a larger iPhone.
- Tablet reader? Perhaps, but it's going to be tough to compete with the incumbent Kindle.

Given the market, I think it's got to be completely unexpected to have any chance of success. Of course, unexpected doesn't guarantee success (just look at the AppleTV). Personally though, I'm *hoping* for something in the spirit of the AppleTV.
     
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Jan 13, 2010, 10:11 PM
 
iNewton™
     
slugslugslug
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Jan 13, 2010, 11:36 PM
 
Now that we’ve come full circle to throwing out names:

iWalk™
     
Hawkeye_a
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Jan 14, 2010, 12:11 AM
 
Thinking out loud.....

The upcoming Apple Tablet is all but confirmed at this point. All signs point to an imminent release.

The speculation about the machine's specs have been all over the place, ranging from an over-sized iPod Touch to a full-fledged Mac.

Here's what i'd like:
-This product needs to encompass the functionality, features and price range of current TabletPCs, netbooks and 'sub-notebooks'. Steve will probably highlight the fact that Apple commands the lion's share of revenue for machines over $1k…..and then announce that Apple will target the sub-$1k market aggressively in 2010. Enter the Apple Slate.

-The current market is convoluted, saturated and 'noisy', similar to what the portable MP3 market was like before the iPod, and what the smart phone market was like before the iPhone. Apple's vertical model, and simplified unified development and marketing process will be able to solve that by bringing a consistent model and product-family to market.

-The hardware. Personally, the lowest priority aspect of the device on my list. it will obviously have 8-16GB flash memory(similar to nanos). the processor will most probably be a custom chip(maybe even developed in-house). the screen should be 10" with a 'wide' aspect ratio. bluetooth, iPod connector, headphones, wi-fi, iSight, MDP, USB. 3D capabilities will be close to Apple's next(unannounced) iPhone imo. Battery life between 5-10 hours.

-The services. iTunes Music Store, App Store, mobile me, exchange(maybe), full iTunesLP/Cocktail. And most importantly …the killer app…. digital content distribution for all forms of print media (WSJ, Rolling Stone, Wired, Edge, NYT, etc….) with embedded content (pictures, audio, video)….i would love to be able to download brochures for products (like Macs, cars, etc) which include 3D models that i can look at on the scream. Text Books (imagine a physics text book with animations demonstrating inertia, acceleration, gravitational forces, magnetic fields, etc…or chemistry books with 3D models of organic compounds and their electron fields, or economic/accounting textbooks with interactive graphs which change when you change one variable in an equation, etc. And of course general reading books(novels, story books, etc). This service will MAKE this product.

-The software….. it should probably run the iPhoneOS kernel. but i think given the extra screen real-estate and processing power, Apple *should* extend the UI to be more 'Mac like'…..I'm thinking along the lines of Palm's 'deck of cards' metaphor, with some slick animations and graphical effects. All customized for multi-touch input obviously. It would be great if Apple would show off their next-gen GUI which takes advantage of Quartz Extreme for a full-3D experience, but i don't think that's ready for prime time yet. As an example, given a touch screen with muti-touch input….. picture a 'desktop' with depth, where the window manager allows you to scale/size windows by pinching, so all your windows/panels/widgets are floating on screen with depth relative to each other. single click to drag/move, double click to bring to front and zoom, and pinch to scale. the possibilities are endless, and i hope this device will bring a taste of whats to come.

-Custom Applications. As they did with the iPod and iPhone, there should be some custom apps that 'show off' the device….. imagine Chess being upgraded with online capabilities(and maybe even voice/videochat support?) or poker ? or monopoly ? etc… iChat AV.

Overall i want the experience to be between that of the iPhone and the Mac. i would like to be able to able to install any apps from the net, but also be able to purchase content from the iTMS and App Store, and install/set-up the device as a regular Mac OR through iTunes.
     
Eug
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Jan 14, 2010, 12:14 AM
 
^^^ To be honest, that sounds pretty uninteresting to me, as in a giant tarted up iPhone.
     
Laminar
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Jan 14, 2010, 12:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a View Post
-Custom Applications. As they did with the iPod and iPhone, there should be some custom apps that 'show off' the device….. imagine Chess being upgraded with online capabilities(and maybe even voice/videochat support?)
I imagine it would still be boring.
     
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Jan 14, 2010, 12:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by macfantn View Post
The Apple Tablet looks like a bigger iPhone that sports an awesome UI packed in a beautiful 10.1-inch screen. The tablet combines the functions of both netbook and kindle, an ebook reader. It has virtual keyboard for text entry and a webcam for video conferencing
Sorry, but I have to vote for something MUCH more earth shattering than this. I think it will have all the things you mention (virtual keyboard, etc) but probably much, much more as well. Do you all remember SJ demo of the multi-touch capabilities of the iphone upon first introduction ? We're all quite used to it now, it's second nature ... but it really was breathtaking when we all first saw it (and the moniker "Jesus phone" came about soon after).

Here's my 2 cents: What technologies has apple brought to the fore in some recent releases ? Facial recognition in iPhoto, voice recognition for commands in the iPhone.

How bout a tablet that recognizes you when it sees you or hears you. Switches to your appropriate user space (and blacks out for unrecognized faces unless you have an activated "guest" account for your table). How bout telling your tablet what to do in addition to an on screen keyboard. How about a tablet device that can turn in to a pure keyboard while it displays your content on any monitor of your choosing (or television, or projector). Basically, you'd be carrying around your "cpu" that you could mate with a monitor at work, a TV screen at home, etc. but could also use standalone and use it's own display. I picture a device more intensely personal than just a standard laptop with traditional user spaces.

Seriously, I don't know what this device will be but I'm expecting a type of interaction that blows us away even more than the iPhone did. Something other-worldly. I just can't see Apple entering the tablet space without bringing something completely outrageous to the table such that there is a clear reason for people to choose it over tablet offerings from the PC side. Apple has only a minor market share in computers but they seem to have a great ability to take specialty devices and make something so nutty and so far ahead that they rapidly dominate that space.
( Last edited by Krusty; Jan 14, 2010 at 12:49 AM. )
     
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Jan 14, 2010, 12:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a View Post
Thinking out loud.....
You are certainly thinking outloud. Did you even read this thread? If you have not, you should go back and read what has already been said. It will give you a good idea of what the Tablet will be like. Based on all the intel, this is the Apple Tablet:

-10.7" Screen, LED, capacitive screen 1280 x 800
-Custom ARM Cortex A8/9 chipset with HD playback. Dual or Quad core, 5-800 MHz per core
-64 or 128 SSD drive
-Custom, multi-touch OS X. It's own OS X, complete with a file system, and a host of new gestures. It will not be a giant iPod or iPhone, and it won't run the iPhone OS. The app store model will likely apply to it, but full scale applications like iWork, Apple Mail, etc. will run on this
-Unibody construction, either aluminum or polycarbonate (unknown at this point), with some rubber on there likely
-A built in prop arm (others debate this, but I think it's a must and they will include this)
-Built in camera, either an iSight on in the screen itself (they have patents on this)
-1 USB; 1 Mini Display Port; Bluetooth and Wifi N; also, wireless video transfer to other computers or projects on the same network
-6 hour real world battery with lith polymer
-iTunes book and magazine store complete with subscriptions optimized for multi-touch devices
     
freudling
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Jan 14, 2010, 12:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by Krusty View Post
Sorry, but I
Hi Krusty:

Well said. The fact that Apple is finally moving forward on this, they must see value in it to take a chance in selling it. What makes this so earth shattering is that, it's the longest developed product in Apple's history. They've been working with tablet prototypes since about 1981. That's almost 30 years of research and development without a single product that shipped.

I'll keep saying it. This is a new computing paradigm, it's coming.
     
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Jan 14, 2010, 12:57 AM
 
CrunchPad™
     
Hawkeye_a
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Jan 14, 2010, 01:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
You are certainly thinking outloud.
Yup, as is everyone else on this thread eh ?

Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Did you even read this thread? If you have not, you should go back and read what has already been said. It will give you a good idea of what the Tablet will be like. Based on all the intel, this is the Apple Tablet
Nah i didnt, couldn't be bothered. just thought id outline what i 'wanted'

But from what you mentioned, it's going to be a full fledged Mac with iPhone App support eh ?

Most of what you mentioned if definitely possible, except for the SSD drives(too expensive at the moment for the type of profit margins Apple aims for imo).

From a software perspective:
I wonder if having a 'true MacOSX machine', as well as a device capable of running iPhone Apps on the same screen would confuse customers ? this hybrid we're talking about comes with a high risk of alienating the end user unless Apple implements a seamless system which somehow shields the end user from the differences.

Obviously Apple wants to maintain the app distribution model from the iPhone, but i wonder if it wants the flexibility of the Mac(applications and downloads) on the same device ?

Price ? im thinking $599 if the software is built using the iPhone OS, or $799 if it's a 'real Mac'.

Cheers
     
Hawkeye_a
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Jan 14, 2010, 01:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
I'll keep saying it. This is a new computing paradigm, it's coming.
Thats the aspect of this product that interests me the most.

I agree, and Apple needs to set the bar high enough that it'll maintain the lead for at least 2 years. I hope it involves a 3D interface of some sort ...ive been hoping and waiting since QuartzExtreme.
     
Simon
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Jan 14, 2010, 01:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
-10.7" Screen, LED, capacitive screen 1280 x 800
-Custom ARM Cortex A8/9 chipset with HD playback. Dual or Quad core, 5-800 MHz per core
-64 or 128 SSD drive
-Custom, multi-touch OS X. It's own OS X, complete with a file system, and a host of new gestures. It will not be a giant iPod or iPhone, and it won't run the iPhone OS. The app store model will likely apply to it, but full scale applications like iWork, Apple Mail, etc. will run on this
-Unibody construction, either aluminum or polycarbonate (unknown at this point), with some rubber on there likely
-A built in prop arm (others debate this, but I think it's a must and they will include this)
-Built in camera, either an iSight on in the screen itself (they have patents on this)
-1 USB; 1 Mini Display Port; Bluetooth and Wifi N; also, wireless video transfer to other computers or projects on the same network
-6 hour real world battery with lith polymer
-iTunes book and magazine store complete with subscriptions optimized for multi-touch devices
No offense, but to me that's just the other extreme. Instead of a big iPod touch this is a small MB without a KB. IOW a tablet with multitouch. And again, at $1k I'm pretty certain this thing won't sell half as well as some here believe. Apart from some geeks and fanbois, most people simply won't want to give up on usability and performance (compared to the regular MB) and pay $200 extra just to get some multitouch gizmo.

Now if Apple were to drop the MB and replace it with this, maybe. But really, how likely is that? It would actually raise the entry-level price and education (where many/most MBs are sold) would never support the move on a wide scale.

Of course at $600 this becomes a different story. But then you might as well drop half the specs (forget the 64GB SSD, the quad-core ARM, and 802.11n). Consider Apple's usual margins. Even on consumer models.
     
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Jan 14, 2010, 01:59 AM
 
JobsPad™
     
Simon
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Jan 14, 2010, 02:04 AM
 
BTW, I do actually buy this new paradigm thing. That's something Apple could indeed do. Deliver some new extra value that nobody else can offer. Make the product stand out from competition, but also from the rest of Apple's products.

Unfortunately, no matter how hard people here or anywhere else on the web have tried, so far no suggestions have been made that really seem like that. And no, 10" multitouch screens and ebook readers are not a new paradigm. It would have to be something much more significant. Let's hope Apple's just once again preparing something great w/o anybody having an advanced clue. Big surprise.
( Last edited by Simon; Jan 15, 2010 at 02:06 AM. Reason: typo)
     
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Jan 14, 2010, 02:09 AM
 
     
freudling
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Jan 14, 2010, 06:55 AM
 
Simon:

I am fairly convinced you have not both read and understood what is contained in this growing thread.

There is a great deal of informative information regarding what exactly this tablet is and what it means.

But how does this sound. Apple's tablet as we have it will fail in the market, particularly at $1000. It offers nothing really new or groundbreaking.

Forget the Fingerworks gestures... the what is likely to be beautiful design... the custom multi-touch OS... the custom designed mobile processing chips... the built-into the screen video camera... the long battery life... the multi-touch optimized magazine and newspaper subscriptions that will reinvigorate the publishing industry...

Forget how successful the iPhone is, with it's multi-touch interface, and how that interface was taken from Apple's work on a tablet early on. Forget the change in form factors from a laptop to a tablet, and how that will change the way people break up their daily computing tasks (reading and being entertained vs. inputing information). Forget that Apple's tablet work goes back to the beginning of the 1980s, where no product has shipped, making it the longest research and development project ever at the company. Forget that eReaders with about one tenth the functionality of what the Apple Tablet is likely to be can run up to ~$800+ USD (i.e. Que, $800).

Forget all that. Their tablet is doomed.
     
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Jan 14, 2010, 08:00 AM
 
That's a crude distortion of what I said. And the use of a strawman makes it only worse. The iPhone offered radical amounts of extra value. The iPhone didn't compete with any other Mac.

So if you're interested in discussing actual features and market response let me know. But I'm not interested in arguing for the sake of arguing.
     
 
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