[Atheist]

Sorry if this has been discussed already. Couldn't find anything. Seems that even with all of the 64-bit hype, Snow Leopard will be using a 32-bit kernel (except on the Xserve).

Is this a bait-and-switch or much ado about nothing? It seems that apple has decided to limit the 64-bit kernel to only those Macs with a 64-bit EFI (even though the 64-bit kernel will still load fine with a 32-bit EFI). You can force a supported Mac to load the 64-bit kernel by holding down "6" and "4" when booting.

I suppose in the short-term it's not much of a big deal since most drivers and such are still 32-bit but it seems a little dishonest on Apple's part.

Edit: Any speculation on whether the official release will be different?

Thoughts or comments?

[Simon]

Oh boy. Before the panic starts, let's set a few things straight:

• you do NOT need a 64 bit kernel to run 64 bit apps; 32 bit SL WILL run 64 bit apps; SL is 64 bit compatible regardless of which kernel version you boot

• SL even if booted with the 32 bit kernel will still be able to run 64 bit apps and address more than 4GB of RAM

• the reason you'd need the 64 bit kernel is if the kernel needed to address more than 32 GB of RAM (hence it's default on the Xserve) or you have a 64 bit only kext (developers)

• 64 bit kernels do not make your computer magically faster; unless you need more than 32 GB of RAM (IOW only Xserves anyway) you do not need it for addressing reasons either

• the reason Apple doesn't force everybody to run a 64 bit kernel is because most people will have a third-party 32 bit device driver than isn't compatible; if forced to run a 64 bit kernel people could throw those devices away

• by making 32 bit default on consumer systems and giving pros and developers the 64 bit kernel option Apple is retaining max compatibility AND max flexibility

• 64 bit is mainly a developer option; they can use it to test their new 64 bit drivers/kexts to make sure they work with the 64 bit kernel

• should you be a pro that actually needs a 64 bit kernel and is willing to sacrifice driver compatibility now, you are free to boot SL with the 64 bit kernel; there is even a defaults write command to write it to plist so you don't need the key combo for every restart

If you now feel like panicking or ranting:
1) Take a deep breath
2) Read all of the above
3) Take another deep breath
4) Think (may be combined with step 3)
5) Repeat step 4 to be on the safe side
6) Read all of the above again
7) Do not panic or rant

[Simon]

And for those wondering if their Mac comes with a 64 bit compatible EFI (most C2D and beyond), here's the command:

Code:
ioreg -l -p IODeviceTree | grep firmware-abi

The 64 bit EFI Macs will report
| | "firmware-abi" = <"EFI64">

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Oh boy. Before the panic starts, let's set a few things straight:

Thanks for the concise and informative follow-up!

[Simon]

And by the way...

Should anybody now feel the need to bitch about how we were deceived, how SL without default 64 bit kernel loses all its value, how Apple cheated us, how he/she will never pay $29 for a 32 bit kernel SL, yadda yadda yadda... Let me go on record saying I will go *completely* apeshit. I cannot guarantee for anything. So don't try me.

Oh yeah, before I forget, the same applies to anybody who puts an 'a' somewhere in the word kernel too.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

Thanks for the concise and informative follow-up!

Sure.

Let's hope it helps.

[Spheric Harlot]

My MacBook has a Core2Duo, but I won't be able to run the 64-bit colonel because of a 32-bit EFI?

I feel cheated. **** YOU APPLE!



No way in hell I'm paying $29 for that!

[Simon]

Hehe. Nice try, but just a teeny-weeny itsy-bitsy too obvious.

I did really enjoy the colonel though.

[Spheric Harlot]

Now I *really* feel jilted.










( )

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Simon 

I did really enjoy the colonel though.

That's what he said…

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

My MacBook has a Core2Duo, but I won't be able to run the 64-bit colonel because of a 32-bit EFI?

I feel cheated. **** YOU APPLE!



No way in hell I'm paying $29 for that!

My Mac Pro is 32-bit EFI as well. I wonder how it actually can drive the 30" Apple Cinema display !!!

Meh, I don't need such a SL 64, a SL 63 would do it.



Needless to say it has to be snow white.



In before of the smarty pants, a SL 65 is out of question.

[Simon]

Now that is a car.

Oh, which one to get first. That one or the Maybach 62 S I've been saving up for? Decisions, decisions, ...

[zerostar]

I thought this was "true 64bytes technolodgy"?

what happened and why did they change it? Should I stick with 10.1.2? I was really hoping to upgrade my iBook Damnit MAC always charging for the worst things...

[olePigeon]

So will Snow Leopard install on a Core Duo?

[Art Vandelay]

Yes.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by zerostar 

I thought this was "true 64bytes technolodgy"?

As pointed out above, it is. Which part did you not understand?

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by Simon 

As pointed out above, it is. Which part did you not understand?

huh? well why do they say its only 32bytes not 64bite? I want the full bites on my snowy leopard MAC!!!

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

So will Snow Leopard install on a Core Duo?

Yep. It has a 32-bit kernel much like Leopard's. It will even run on a Core Solo.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

So will Snow Leopard install on a Core Duo?

yes I need this too, how about my iBook?

[Simon]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

So will Snow Leopard install on a Core Duo?

Of course. Just as pointed out by Apple's general requirements.

None of this has to do with booting the kernel in 32 vs. 64 bits.

[Spheric Harlot]

Simon loses, zerostar wins.

(to be fair, though, we really were ganging up on him.)

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

So will Snow Leopard install on a Core Duo?

How about a Pentium D?

[zerostar]

LOL sorry guys

SL does run on my iMac 24" C2D, but NOT in 64 bit kernel, not even forced... is that because the HD2600 driver is 32 bit?

Either way it has been a huge performance boost in just about every area of the system. Well worth the $30 and the time they put into it IMO.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by zerostar 

huh? well why do they say its only 32bytes not 64bite? I want the full bites on my snowy leopard MAC!!!

Your MAC is associated to your Ethernet controller. Take a 'full bite' out of it and your MAC is gone. Your board probably too though.

[olePigeon]

The reason I asked about the Core Duo was because I thought Snow Leopard would only run on a 64-bit Intel Mac.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Your MAC is associated to your Ethernet controller. Take a 'full bite' out of it and your MAC is gone. Your board probably too though.

Maybe that is why they replaced my logical Eyebook board 2 times? dang-it!

[olePigeon]

Can Snow Leopard (when booted into 64-bit kernel) load 32-bit drivers?

If it can, that's way cooler than Windows.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by zerostar 

yes I need this too, how about my iBook?

Check out Apple's general requirements. It says Intel only. As has pretty much every piece ever written on SL.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

The reason I asked about the Core Duo was because I thought Snow Leopard would only run on a 64-bit Intel Mac.

You failed to complete points 2, 4, 5, and 6. And you failed to read Apple's requirements. At least you're being consistent.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Can Snow Leopard (when booted into 64-bit kernel) load 32-bit drivers?

I know you are stubbornly resisting point 2, 4, 5, and 6. Fair enough.

But if you really want an answer to that question I suggest you read bullet no. 5. The very reason Apple is letting people boot SL with a 32 bit kernel is so they can continue to use their 32 bit kexts. If you boot the 64 bit kernel, the 32 bit drivers will not work.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Simon loses, zerostar wins.

(to be fair, though, we really were ganging up on him.)

Ha! You haven't seen anything yet. I won't be temp-banned just to entertain you, but rest assured this is nothing compared to the type of fallout I was thinking of.

I consider this a fairly successful endeavor so far. Compared to the other senseless panic rants and bitch fests we have enjoyed on this board, this thread is going quite well even though the topic had all the potential. I know the douches are just waiting to come out and crap all over the place, but I'm alert and the BFG is loaded.

[Spheric Harlot]

You mean you're intentionally letting yourself get riled up by good-natured trolling?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Yep. It has a 32-bit kernel much like Leopard's. It will even run on a Core Solo.

It's a little known fact, but Core Solo is Han Solo's brother.

[besson3c]

I just need to know if 64 bits will work with AOL?

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by zerostar 

huh? well why do they say its only 32bytes not 64bite? I want the full bites on my snowy leopard MAC!!!

Well, your MAC is 48 bits, so you're already part-way there. That's a little progress, eh?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

It's a little known fact, but Core Solo is Han Solo's brother.

There's a joke in there somewhere about Duo and Luke and Leia being twins, but it's gonna be at least as lame as that one, so I'm not gonna go look for it.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

You mean you're intentionally letting yourself get riled up by good-natured trolling?

He. Not at all, but I'm not yet sure we've really managed to keep all the morons out. There's bound to be one waiting for his cue. </grasps bat firmly>

<- me on the look out

[Big Mac]

Can I boot in 64-bit mode on my G5?

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Can I boot in 64-bit mode on my G5?

Is your G5 an Intel?

[Spheric Harlot]

I have a G5 iMac that has intel core something.

Will that download Snow Leper?

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Is your G5 an Intel?

No but it's 64-bit, near top of the line technology. That's one of the reasons why I bought it in 2004!

[CharlesS]

... but you can't boot Snow Leopard on PPC at all, so therefore the answer to your question would have to be "no".

[Big Mac]

Say it ain't so.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

No...<snip>

Ergo...

That's one of the reasons why I bought it in 2004!

So you bought a G5 in 2004 so you would be able to run SL in 2009 on it, eh?

Hmm, I guess your visionary skills were good but just not quite that good.

[besson3c]

I think some of you need to have your sarcasm meters recalibrated.

P.S. this message is sarcastic too

P.P.S. your face needs to be recalibrated too

P.P.P.S. Just kidding

P.P.P.P.S. My Han Solo joke kicked ass.

[Simon]

Or maybe you do.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

P.P.P.P.S. My Han Solo joke kicked ass...

...briefly, three years ago, when somebody else made it.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by zerostar 

yes I need this too, how about my iBook?

I believe Snow Leopard is Intel-only, so NO it should NOT run on an iBook. However, knowing that it WILL run on a Core Duo (as opposed to a Core 2 Duo) is good news for me, as I have an early MBP that I want to upgrade to SL.

[Simon]

SL was always advertised for all Intel Macs. That includes CS and CD Macs.

I think some people have confused the 32/64 bit kernel issue with the 32/64 bit issue between CS/CD and C2D. However, as already pointed out, those are two entirely different things. Just because SL also ships with a 64 bit kernel does not mean it needs a C2D.

[Jonathan-Tanya]

Wow, it sure would be nice if you could just buy a computer with Snow Leopord built in with 64 bytes of Ram included already.

Frankly I'm surprised Apple didn't think of this....as it is I don't think my G4 is going to work with Snow Leopard....it used to have some kexts but I deleted them all.

I'm very upset with Apple right now. This is like the time I found out OS X wouldn't run on NuBus based mac.....even though I had carefully cut out the entire nubus system, to no avail...the installer just checked for nubus and that was that.

Well I'm done not actually saying anything...I can't get my time back after reading this thread, but I'd like to think I've returned the favor.