[Spliffdaddy]

Told you.

The NEA is the problem.

[dencamp]

Originally posted by dencamp:
Please Spliff, answer BG's questions. How shopuld performance be judged? Let's imagine the world without those naughty unions mucking up capitalism (and education). Don't just point a finger and go on about general union issues, imagine a solution and let us know.

again?

[eggman]

Fans of school privatization would do well to check out this... and this.

I was especially amused by this passage:
"Chris Whittle, the company's charismatic chief executive and founder, recently told a meeting of school principals that he'd thought up an ingenious solution to the company's financial woes: Take advantage of the free supply of child labor, and force each student to work an hour a day, presumably without pay, in the school offices.

"We could have less adult staff," Mr. Whittle reportedly said at a summit for employees and principals in Colorado Springs. "I think it's an important concept for education and economics." In a school with 600 students, he said, this unpaid work would be the equivalent of "75 adults" on salary.

Now that's the kind of innovative thinking we need to solve the crisis in education. </sarcasm>

[deedar]

The educational system in America is designed to produce lemmings. Period. I felt that while I was in it's clutches and I feel that even more now that I have a school-age daughter. It's more about checking boxes, making lists and standing in a straight line (quietly of course) than it is about teaching people to think, or god forbid, be creative individuals. Mr. Natural, I thoroughly enjoyed your post - thanks. And thank you Max for the topic.

I would write more, but as a product of the "institution", I lack creativity and the necessary writing skills.


PS: It's not the teachers - It's the "institution."

[Hemi425]

I only read half of this before I decided to post so if I repeat something sorry. I basically dropped out of high school my junior year/this year. I'm now homeschooled and you would not believe the difference. I can do the same amount of work in 4 hours that most schoolers do in 8 hours, and I retain it better too. I've got a job doing something that I'm planning on majoring in when I enter college. I don't have someone breatheing down my neck all day pushing me to get the high score on the standardized test like they do in schools. I'm also a lot happier about what I'm doing.

I know this will probley never happen but one thing that I advocate is apprenticeships. Why do you think doctors have 2 years internship and 4 years rediceny? I see it as something that would be good because you get someone that doesn't know a whole lot about what he is going to be doing, and the trainer teaches him, and eventually he is not the student anymore, but more knowlageable than the teacher. The Native American tribes did this, I did this with my technical theatre and I'm as good as any, if not better, than any techie that is about to enter college,(I wasn't going to point this one out but what the hell) ever seen Star Wars?

Now if you'll excue me I've got to work on my english.

[olePigeon]

Exhibit A: Me. I don't know how to spell half our political history. As for everything else, no excuse, just terrible speller.

We should start teaching American Government from the 1st grade, and it should be held in regard as one of the most important learning skills along with the English language and mathematics.

People might actually know what and who they're voting for.

Originally posted by vmarks:
Apparently a whole lot of time wasn't spent on spelling. Politics, American government in whole, and Mr. Quayle in brief should have been a year's worth of study in American History at least. If not that, then an ELP overview course that covers economics, legal system and politics, and how all three entertwine.

[mr. natural]

Harper's Magazine September issue is out on news stands, or your local library, and for all those interested in this debate may I suggest you go check it out for John Taylor Gatto's essay: Against School: How Public Education Cripples Our Kids, and Why. (Harper's does have a web page but it has not been updated to reflect this latest issue.)

On another note, for anyone who is struggling with this *choice* of an *education* for their own children, may I also suggest, for a reasoned and well balanced book about this *choice*, David Gutterson's: Family Matters: Why Homeschooling Makes Sense. Gutterson is a published writer and a high school english teacher.

[mydog8mymac]

Okay, here's my 2�.
Educational History:
K-12 Private Prep School
Undergrad Bachelors with Minor
Graduate School with terminal degree
Taught full time at State University for 5 years as an Assistant Professor, now I just teach one class a semester. (Full time other job - that yes, pays more.)

This is a very thoughtful discussion on a sensitive topic for Americans. We desperately want to provide the best education for our kids, but don't know how to go about it�so we don't talk about it. When was the last time you heard these names or titles in the mass media? They are pretty standard in academia, but you won't hear about them on the Today Show, because they don't know how to talk about this in a three minute segment.

Then there's the fact that almost everyone has gone to school and therefore feels that he or she is an expert on the situation. That seems to be the philosophy of most of my state's legislators. The suggestions that have been mentioned here are very timely and applicable but politicians
are scared to death when you say "experimental teaching curricula" and other new approaches because they don't know what that means and they don't know how to sell it.

The people need to be educated on education! Why somethings don't work like the text book publishing racket (there was a good "60 Minutes" on this) and state text book committees. And why some things do work�like Head Start. And how about what will it mean when your state has to fund Head Start without federal funding.

I know this sounds a bit sappy, but most people in education are there because they really care about kids and teaching. They join unions because that's the only option they have if they want to earn a decent wage, and private schools pay less than public schools. My state's average secondary teacher pay rate was 45th in the country last year or the year before (and starting pay was around 20K). New graduates, who have a lot more energy than I, are leaving the state in droves.

I applaud everyone in this thread for entering into this discussion. Now, please don't abandon it, do something. At the very least explore the issues and vote.

-I'm pretty sure this is my longest post ever.