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shifuimam · Jul 11, 2009, 12:18 PM

Boyfriend and I were on our way home from IHOP when we passed by the place where I found the I-Opener...he's on the phone talking to a friend, and I said "OMG I think there's an original Mac in there!"

Turned around, and sure enough - a Classic II. So far, I know this much: it boots to a flashing disk icon, and the IO/panel on the back doesn't line up with the holes in the case, so I'll take the case off and see if I can seat it properly.

I know absolutely nothing about these. Will it run System 7? Does it have to be on a floppy? Is there any possibility of any kind of networking capability at all?

Edit:

Got the case off. It's got a hard drive installed...from 1990. Now what?

starman · Jul 11, 2009, 12:45 PM

It runs System 7. I no longer have the floppies.

It SHOULD boot off an external CD drive since my Mac Plus did.

Good find. Our company threw ours out after I asked almost daily for a week I wanted to take it home.

ibookuser2 · Jul 11, 2009, 12:45 PM

The Classic II should be able to run up to System 7.6.1. You can download old versions of the system software from Apple's old downloads page. You'll need another Mac with a floppy drive to write the downloaded disk images to floppies so you can boot the Classic and install the system, provided the hard drive wasn't damaged by whatever dislocated all of the I/O ports.

For networking, you pretty much have two options. The Classic II doesn't have any expansion slots, so there's no chance of installing an Ethernet card. There were, however, several ethernet adapters for old Macs that plugged into the SCSI port (such as this one, though you'd want one with a regular 25-pin connector instead of the PowerBook SCSI port.) The other option would be to get a couple of LocalTalk adapters and a LocalTalk-to-Ethernet bridge (and it would probably need to be a bridge that will do TCP/IP, too, otherwise they just bridge AppleTalk over to the ethernet, which probably isn't very useful to you unless you have other old Macs on the ethernet to talk to it.)

Check the connections on the hard drive and motherboard; maybe they just got dislodged and the drive already has an OS on it...

shifuimam · Jul 11, 2009, 12:55 PM

The HDD was unplugged. It's booting now - looks like it does have some kind of OS installed, although of course I don't have any ADB keyboard or mouse, so I can't DO anything with it yet. Speaking of which - I'm having trouble finding out if there exists an ADB to PS/2 adapter, or would I be better off buying an original keyboard and mouse on eBay? There's only one ADB port - did the mouse plug into the keyboard or something?

I looked on eBay at ethernet options, and it looks pretty unlikely. Then again, I'm not entirely sure what I could do if I had networking - is there even any web browser that would work on this, and is System 7 capable of mounting SMB fileshares?

I don't know what the deal is with the IO panel - it wasn't damaged or anything, it just didn't lay flat so that the ports lined up with the holes in the case. I kind of jimmied it under a metal tab on one side, and it seems to be fine for the moment.

No clue what I'm going to do with this thing. All the other retro hardware I have does, at the very least, run Windows 98 (although I managed to completely fry my I-Opener and just bought another one on eBay so that the $80 I spent in proprietary components isn't totally wasted). I suppose I could put some old school games on it...

ibookuser2 · Jul 11, 2009, 01:00 PM

I'm not aware of any PS/2 to ADB adapters. It should be pretty easy to find an old ADB keyboard/mouse for pretty cheap, though. You're correct that the mouse plugs into the keyboard.

There are browsers for System 7, though none will really handle modern web pages. System 7 won't mount SMB shares natively, though an old copy of DAVE might help.

shifuimam · Jul 11, 2009, 01:04 PM

Any ideas on what kind of thing I could use this for? I mean, I guess I could junk it or eBay it, but it seems like I might be able to find more use out of it than that. I suppose I could gut it...

finboy · Jul 11, 2009, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

Any ideas on what kind of thing I could use this for? I mean, I guess I could junk it or eBay it, but it seems like I might be able to find more use out of it than that. I suppose I could gut it...

Look around and see what people are using Basilisk II for. Games, some old productivity software, etc. It is always useful as a word processor or notetaking machine. It should read/write PC floppies just fine. You can find software on the web, including Word 5.1, that should run fine on it even in System 7.

shifuimam · Jul 11, 2009, 01:28 PM

There's an MSWord icon on the desktop - It's driving me crazy not having any way to use a keyboard or mouse with it right now. I didn't think to look in the dumpster to see if there was anything else for it - it's on a pretty busy street, and I'm sure I already looked weird enough.

Mrjinglesusa · Jul 11, 2009, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

Any ideas on what kind of thing I could use this for? I mean, I guess I could junk it or eBay it, but it seems like I might be able to find more use out of it than that. I suppose I could gut it...

There's a reason that it was in the trash in the first place.

Unless you want it as a collectable, it's pretty much useless/worthless. Why use it as a word processor or web browsing machine if you have other computers to do that? What's the point in investing money trying to get a working/functional Apple computer from the '90s?

I really don't see the point in dumpster diving for useless computers and trying to get them to work.

shifuimam · Jul 11, 2009, 02:45 PM

What can I say? I like obsolete hardware. Why have I spent $150 on an I-Opener...? I just enjoy these kinds of hobbies.

I might make it into a MacQuarium or something.

starman · Jul 11, 2009, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

Any ideas on what kind of thing I could use this for? I mean, I guess I could junk it or eBay it, but it seems like I might be able to find more use out of it than that. I suppose I could gut it...

Honestly, I'd fix it up and sell it. It's cool doing old school for like a week, but it's an old machine with an old OS. It doesn't really serve much of a purpose since nothing can connect to it anymore. That's why I never bought another Newton. I love the things, but they're more work than they're worth to keep running with newer hardware and software (and developing is a bitch).

I have a PowerMac 7600 and an SGI O2. The Mac I'll use for updating the Marathon map project I dropped, but that's it.The O2? Well, you can get better performance from a Macbook.

shifuimam · Jul 11, 2009, 04:43 PM

I'm certainly not going to do any development work for it. I'm thinking a MacQuarium, but I don't know if I want to put in the effort (given that I know nothing about fish and would want a saltwater aquarium anyhow).

Seems like they go for $50 or so plus shipping on eBay; I suppose I can probably get a little money out of it. We're going to stop by said dumpster on our way out of town today to see if the keyboard and mouse are in there. If not, I'm not sure the resale value is more than negligible. At least the I-Opener I snagged last time will get some actual use, once I get the replacement motherboard.

The other thing I could do is stick the bits from my eeePC 701 in there. I dunno...

angelmb · Jul 11, 2009, 05:00 PM

System 7 Today

ebuddy · Jul 11, 2009, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

I'm certainly not going to do any development work for it. I'm thinking a MacQuarium, but I don't know if I want to put in the effort (given that I know nothing about fish and would want a saltwater aquarium anyhow).

Seems like they go for $50 or so plus shipping on eBay; I suppose I can probably get a little money out of it. We're going to stop by said dumpster on our way out of town today to see if the keyboard and mouse are in there. If not, I'm not sure the resale value is more than negligible. At least the I-Opener I snagged last time will get some actual use, once I get the replacement motherboard.

The other thing I could do is stick the bits from my eeePC 701 in there. I dunno...

You're a trip shifuimam. I'm crackin' up.

shifuimam · Jul 11, 2009, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by ebuddy

You're a trip shifuimam. I'm crackin' up.

What?

Laminar · Jul 11, 2009, 07:03 PM

I have a stack of old ADB keyboards and mice if you want a pair. I also have a Mac-compatible SCSI external hard drive enclosure. I've used it to connect a SCSI CD-ROM drive to old Powerbooks, so it would probably work. If you want any of it, PM me and we can work something out, it's all just sitting in a box in my parents' house. Sooner is better, I'm seeing them tomorrow and could probably get the stuff out to you first thing Monday.

ApertureValue · Jul 11, 2009, 07:24 PM

Wow, very nice find. I sure wish I could have snagged the Mac II my grandma had way back in the day. I remember playing some flight simulator on that one when I was younger. It was SO high tech at the time!

ebuddy · Jul 11, 2009, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

What?

The dumpster, the Mac, the System 7, the return to the dumpster for mouse and keyboard, the Macquarium... the whole shabang shifuimam. I'm just crackin' up. In a nice way though. I'm not trying to be antagonist, I'm just amused is all.

shifuimam · Jul 12, 2009, 11:49 PM

Well, hopefully Laminar's keyboard and mouse will arrive this week, so I can start playing around. According to some vintage Mac site I found, I shouldn't try to run anything beyond System 7.1; 7.5 is too RAM-heavy. I don't know what's installed on it right now. I suppose I'll hang onto it for at least a year before deciding whether or not it's worth keeping...

I can't find a copy of the original user manual ANYWHERE online - so far, all I've unearthed is a service manual for Apple techs.

How the hell do you eject the floppy drive? Will it read FAT-formatted floppies, or should I use my PowerMac to format disks and transfer files (I've got a USB floppy drive)? From what I've read, the internal drive does read 1.44MB 3.5" disks...

Visnaut · Jul 13, 2009, 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

How the hell do you eject the floppy drive?

Same way you still eject drives in Mac OS X: Drag it to the trash!

Also, in the Finder's Special menu, you'll find the 'Eject' command, but that leaves the icon of the floppy on your Desktop, allowing you to drag files to it. Kind of useless, since it just asks you for the floppy as soon as you do that. If you're hell-bent on using a menu command, the even less logical-sounding 'Put Away' in the file menu does the same thing as dragging to the trash.

Originally Posted by shifuimam

Will it read FAT-formatted floppies, or should I use my PowerMac to format disks and transfer files (I've got a USB floppy drive)? From what I've read, the internal drive does read 1.44MB 3.5" disks...

I think it can, using a Control Panel called PC Disk, or something to that effect. I'm surprised that system7today site doesn't have it.

Wow, I can't believe how much System 7 knowledge I've retained. I spent a lot of time on my little Mac IIsi right up until high school, I knew the thing like the back of my hand.

- - e r i k - - · Jul 13, 2009, 01:10 AM

Originally Posted by Visnaut

Also, in the Finder's Special menu, you'll find the 'Eject' command, but that leaves the icon of the floppy on your Desktop, allowing you to drag files to it. Kind of useless, since it just asks you for the floppy as soon as you do that.

Not useless at all!

It's meant for copying files from one floppy to another using one floppy disk. Depending on the size of the buffer you get a classic "floppy-dance", switching between the two floppies for n amount of times

Laminar · Jul 13, 2009, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by Visnaut

Same way you still eject drives in Mac OS X: Drag it to the trash!

Also, in the Finder's Special menu, you'll find the 'Eject' command, but that leaves the icon of the floppy on your Desktop, allowing you to drag files to it. Kind of useless, since it just asks you for the floppy as soon as you do that. If you're hell-bent on using a menu command, the even less logical-sounding 'Put Away' in the file menu does the same thing as dragging to the trash.

Now that brings back memories. I remember telling people, "Oh, you want to eject the disk? No, you don't want to hit eject." Command-Y for Put Away.

finboy · Jul 13, 2009, 12:16 PM

Macintosh Garden is your friend.

ibookuser2 · Jul 13, 2009, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

How the hell do you eject the floppy drive? Will it read FAT-formatted floppies, or should I use my PowerMac to format disks and transfer files (I've got a USB floppy drive)? From what I've read, the internal drive does read 1.44MB 3.5" disks...

It will read FAT disks (provided the PC Exchange control panel is installed) but you have to be careful with most files. HFS has two forks for each file, the data fork and the resource fork. FAT only understands the presence of the data fork. The resource fork is used extensively by pre-Mac OS X systems. It's used to remember the type of a file and what application created it without having extensions as part of the file name. Some applications use the resource fork for storing data in the files they produce, and all applications have important parts of the program code (icons, window layouts, strings, etc.) stored in their resource forks.

Mac OS X is pretty good about dealing reasonably with resource forks on FAT volumes; you may have noticed a bunch of filenames starting with ._ on a FAT volume you've used with a Mac. That's how OS X stores things like the resource fork and other metadata for files on filesystems that don't support it directly.

Older Mac systems don't do that; if you put Mac files on a FAT volume, they pretty much just lose their resource forks, which will break a lot of files.

That's why programs like BinHex existed (remember .hqx files?) to encapsulate Mac files in a format that was robust to being copied through data-fork-only media, such as FAT volumes and over the internet.

So, if you're moving Mac files around, it would be best to use your Power Mac with HFS formatted disks, but if you're moving around .hqx'd or .bin'd files you've downloaded, which you will unpack using BinHex or MacBinary on the Classic, you'd be okay with FAT.

shifuimam · Jul 13, 2009, 03:27 PM

Thanks for the info! I'll remember to always use my PowerMac for copying files to this thing. I'm still on the hunt for a SCSI-Ethernet adapter, although I did discover that my HP LaserJet 2100tn printer has built-in LocalTalk/EtherTalk. Now I just have to find drivers. They're not on HP's site, but I found another website indicating that the 2100 is supported in System 7.

finboy · 12:09 PM

I started to mention that, but I couldn't remember all the vagaries. I just got back into that stuff, too, since I've started using Sheepshaver with OS 9 and Intel.

If you can find an old copy of ResEdit (6.1.3 may not run on Sys 7) it will let you fix the file codes if they go missing.

Wow, it's been a long time since I rock 'n rolled. Mac the Knife does that too I think.

Anything that runs on Mac-on-a-stick should run on that machine too.

mr. burns · Jul 13, 2009, 08:35 PM

turn it into a macquarium

this is my family's first computer. :]

Eriamjh · Jul 16, 2009, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by finboy

Macintosh Garden is your friend.

That site rocks.

It almost makes me want to fire up my old 68030 circa 1990 Mac a friend gave me.

Spheric Harlot · Jul 16, 2009, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by Visnaut

Same way you still eject drives in Mac OS X: Drag it to the trash!

Or Cmd-Y: "Put Away"

shifuimam · Jul 16, 2009, 08:55 AM

Laminar's keyboard and mouse showed up yesterday and work just fine. Turns out it's running System 7.1.

I have the download of System 7.5.3 from Apple's website, but it's one large disk image - is there a way to split it up into floppies so that I can load it onto the Macintosh?

Fortunately, this one already has the RAM maxed out (at a massive 10MB), and I THINK it's got an 80MB hard drive, although I'm not certain.

I really want to find some old games for it - particularly the old Super Solvers series from The Learning Company. I loved those games when I was a kid, and I think that they were released for the 68k Macs.

edit - Snap. Macintosh Garden has some of the Super Solvers games, but not Treasure Mountain.

Spheric Harlot · Jul 16, 2009, 09:07 AM

More software sites (just copied from my bookmarks; don't sue me if they no longer work):

Welcome to the System 6 Heaven
PlanetMirror Home - Free Downloads
Macfreegames.com :-) Cards games
http://209.120.136.195/
http://www.mac512.com/mac512.html
Macintosh Internet Software at The Mac Orchard - Welcome!

Mrjinglesusa · Jul 16, 2009, 12:36 PM

Scarab of Ra FTW.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarab_of_Ra

http://www.semicolon.com/DownloadPage.html#Scarab

finboy · Jul 16, 2009, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

I have the download of System 7.5.3 from Apple's website, but it's one large disk image - is there a way to split it up into floppies so that I can load it onto the Macintosh?

If you sniff around the Apple FTP site, you should be able to find the floppy images for 7.5.3 and all of the subsequent updates.

Mrjinglesusa · Jul 16, 2009, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by finboy

If you sniff around the Apple FTP site, you should be able to find the floppy images for 7.5.3 and all of the subsequent updates.

Not much (if any) sniffing required. Google: "Apple 7.5.3" and first link is this.

shifuimam · Jul 16, 2009, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa

Not much (if any) sniffing required. Google: "Apple 7.5.3" and first link is this.

That's not floppies. It's a multi-part disk image - I already downloaded all that, and when you extract the smi.bin, it's one big image.

seanc · Jul 16, 2009, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

That's not floppies. It's a multi-part disk image - I already downloaded all that, and when you extract the smi.bin, it's one big image.

They ARE individual floppies. I think you need Stuffit expander on an old Mac.

Spheric Harlot · Jul 16, 2009, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by seanc

They ARE individual floppies. I think you need Stuffit expander on an old Mac.

Nope.

From the ReadMe at the bottom of that linked directory:

Instructions:
This software is available as 19 parts of a self-mounting Disk Copy
image. Download all 19 parts to your hard drive and then double-click
on the first part to mount the compressed disk image on your desktop.

Note that self-mounting Disk Images require Mac OS version 7.0.1 or
later. If you are using a version of Mac OS prior to this, you can
download the System 7.5 Network Access floppy disk and boot your
Macintosh from that to use this software.

seanc · Jul 16, 2009, 03:21 PM

My mistake then. They're certainly 1.4m in size...

Does Disk Copy then let you make floppies? It's too many years since I've played with it.

Mrjinglesusa · Jul 16, 2009, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

I have the download of System 7.5.3 from Apple's website, but it's one large disk image - is there a way to split it up into floppies so that I can load it onto the Macintosh?

Originally Posted by shifuimam

That's not floppies. It's a multi-part disk image - I already downloaded all that, and when you extract the smi.bin, it's one big image.

Don't extract the smi.bin yet. You said you wanted to "split it up into floppies so that I can load it onto the Macintosh". So copy each individual 1.4 MB file (all 19 of them) to 19 different floppies, copy the file on each floppy to the Classic, and THEN extract the sim.bin to make one big image to install 7.5.3 from. You'll also need to make a boot floppy to boot from if you don't have one (if I remember correctly).

shifuimam · Jul 16, 2009, 05:16 PM

Okay, so I can make a boot floppy and then access the disk image on the hard drive, and install system 7.5 from that?

Can I make a boot floppy with System 7.1 (what's currently installed)? If I can, how do I go about doing it?

Spheric Harlot · Jul 16, 2009, 06:39 PM

Drag the system folder to a floppy disk if it'll fit. If it won't boot from that, briefly drag the finder out of the folder to the desktop and then back in.

BLAZE_MkIV · Jul 16, 2009, 09:44 PM

And this is why I'm keeping my SCSI zip and external HDs around. A Plus boots nicely off a zip drive.

http://www.mac-im-netz.de/macfaq/mac...faqs/dspg.html

Laminar · Jul 29, 2009, 04:38 PM

Mac SE/30 audio visualizer - Hack a Day