[Eug]

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Eug 

You forgot the kicker. TNG was not edited on film. The film they have is the unedited footage. The edits for the final version were done on videotape, at standard definition resolution.

Thus they'd have to scan a lot more film than just 42 minutes worth per episode, and then match up the edit points with the beta videotapes.

The reason I mention this is because what you describe is essentially what they did with the 3 seasons of the original series. Scanned it all in, cleaned it all up, remastered the audio, and redid much of the special effects.

CBS managed to gear up to remaster/re-work TOS in a fairly short amount of time, and they went from original negatives (uncut when available) for the whole thing. The original TOS DVDs were mastered off of what I can charitably call "prints they'd send to big-market local TV stations," rather than pristine negatives. So basically, they'd have to do somewhere between twice and 2.5 times the work to scan all of TNG.

They wouldn't even have to scan every negative, because they have digital cut sheets on hand. As far as I can tell, all that off-line, non-film editing was done with Avid equipment, so they have everything down to the frame digitally, and could recreate the original episode frame-for-frame from that and the scanned negatives. That's something they didn't have for TOS. The real chore for reworking TNG would be to design and render any new stuff, like exterior shots (the first season's effects shots ranged from WOW to "look, big matte lines, just like in TOS!") and so on.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

'New timeline' effectively equals 'alternate universe'. If Nemo and Spock affected the same timeline that they came from, Spock wouldn't have any memory of events from his timeline, such as Kirk growing up knowing his father, since those events would have never happened. As such, this is an alternate timeline/universe and the original timeline, with a Vulcan and no Romulus, is still running along.

So all those last 40 years we just happened to be watching one of billions of infinite timelines, and now we're watching another??? Makes me glad that time travel is impossible.

Originally Posted by ghporter 

TNG, on the other hand, had TV-oriented effects. They were not done on the same scale or with the same time and money budget that theatrical film effects were done then, and that sometimes showed. Not to the extent that TOS effects showed their low budget, but it did show.

I think that TOS was by far the most expensive show of all time when it was made. I'm tired of hearing it called 'low budget'.

Originally Posted by Thorzdad 

Hokey smoke...that new version is horrible. The planet in the original version is far more effective, much more atmospheric and mysterious, I don't care how "accurate" the new version is. That old planet has far more impact. That new one looks like a flat disc.

Yeah many things about the remastered series are technically better and some aren't but it definitely lost something artistically. And even now I believe that the original Enterprise is a actual gigantic ship in space whereas the remastered version looks like a very cool little cartoon spacecraft based on the real one from 40 years ago. Star Wars is like that too... the first three movies still look real to me and the second three look like great animations but I don't buy them for a second. And they suck too.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

It's a bummer, because TNG was far and away the best of the Star Trek series.

Lovable characters... yes. Overall story, meh. DS9 was pretty awesome from a story perspective, a lot like BSG.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

I think that TOS was by far the most expensive show of all time when it was made. I'm tired of hearing it called 'low budget'.

The first TV show was the most expensive for its time, but I still don't think it's reasonable to call it "high-budget." There just weren't a lot of big-budget shows at the time of Star Trek. I believe it was cheaper than pretty much all the sci-fi series that came after it.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

So all those last 40 years we just happened to be watching one of billions of infinite timelines, and now we're watching another??? Makes me glad that time travel is impossible.

Yep. And now to *really* blow your mind: all those stories we've been watching for the last 40 years are just a few of infinite possibilities that the writers could have written.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Lovable characters... yes. Overall story, meh. DS9 was pretty awesome from a story perspective, a lot like BSG.

Critiquing TNG's overall story is a little strange, since didn't have an overall story. It wasn't a serial like DS9 or BSG. It had recurring plotlines and character development, but there was no overall "this is what it's about" except for what's described in the opening monologue.

[ThinkInsane]

Originally Posted by Thorzdad 

I have one question...Is there any explanation as to where the young Kirk gets the gasoline for the Corvette? One would assume that fossil fuels would have been long since depleted or phased-out. Or are there other instances of gasoline-engined vehicles in the time frame? (I won't be seeing the movie 'til the DVD come out.)

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

I think that TOS was by far the most expensive show of all time when it was made. I'm tired of hearing it called 'low budget'.

I didn't mean to imply that overall the show, or its effects were "low budget," especially in terms of TV series. My point was that compared to a movie, the effects budget for any TNG episode was really low.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

The first TV show was the most expensive for its time, but I still don't think it's reasonable to call it "high-budget." There just weren't a lot of big-budget shows at the time of Star Trek. I believe it was cheaper than pretty much all the sci-fi series that came after it.

Shatner has been quoted as saying that the catering budget for Undiscovered Country was bigger than the budget for all of TOS. (I may have that a little skewed, but that's the gist.)

Much of TOS was done on a borrowed, worn out shoestring, and it still looked awesome. Transporter effect? Pull a matte of the outline of the person you're beaming in/out, fade 'em out with an overlay of this sparkly powder falling. Simple optical effect, cheap to do, looks cool!

Most props were made of wood, lots of wonderful looking stuff was done really cheap. Between Irving Feinberg and Jim Rugg, they made stuff you could get at a hardware store in LA in 1967 look like it was high tech for 2255.

[dzp111]

Bone's body scanner was actually a salt/pepper shaker. I kid you not.

[lexapro]

I just saw it this evening.

Cool story. Lot of action.

But..

I HAVE A MAJOR HEADACHE DUE TO THE LIGHTING!!! Were they thinking, "Come, let us take 3 million candle mag lights and shine them repeatedly into the eyes of the audience. They will even PAY US for the pleasure."

[Eug]

Saw it again last night, this time on IMAX.

1) IMAX isn't really a big bonus for this one, especially since the so many of the shots are very tightly framed already. On a standard screen, there are already so many closeups, so the further closeupification that the IMAX provided was actually too much. And, I didn't find any noticeable quality benefit vs. a standard digital presention. This was very different from the The Dark Knight. With TDK, the IMAX sequences were the most detailed I had ever seen in any movie on the big screen. The one thing the IMAX presentation did do was make the bazillion lens flares even more distracting.

2) I enjoyed it more the second time around, because I could ignore the plot. Nero still seemed 1 dimensional, and the movie simply didn't engage me as much as I hoped. And, the plot still has as many (black) holes as ever, but I didn't care so much this time.

3) The score really is disappointing. A second listen didn't make it any better. It's not as immersive or dramatic as the scores of previous movies. It seemed much more action-adventure-melodramatic, like I should be watching a sequel of The Mummy or something. I did like the planet Vulcan sequences though. It had a bit of a pseudo-Chinese tinge to it that seemed to fit reasonably well with the scenes. Go to about the 2:30 mark

4) I must have seen a dozen iPhones in the lineup, just in the group of people adjacent to me. It's interesting to see that our communicators are way more advanced in some ways than the ones in Star Trek.

P.S. The props for the movie outside the theatre were a Borg and a Klingon, neither of which were in the movie. I also saw a dead tribble in the parking lot.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by lexapro 

I just saw it this evening.

Cool story. Lot of action.

But..

I HAVE A MAJOR HEADACHE DUE TO THE LIGHTING!!! Were they thinking, "Come, let us take 3 million candle mag lights and shine them repeatedly into the eyes of the audience. They will even PAY US for the pleasure."

And WTF was with all the blue lens flares? It seemed like every other shot had a blue flare/line running through it.

[Dakar V]

I heard some comment about them liking the wonderment that effect had.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Shatner has been quoted as saying that the catering budget for Undiscovered Country was bigger than the budget for all of TOS.

Yet strangely they still used half the sets from TNG and re-dressed them.

10 Forward, observation room, transporter room, engineering etc.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Yet strangely they still used half the sets from TNG and re-dressed them.

10 Forward, observation room, transporter room, engineering etc.

They used a few sets from TNG, but mostly they built new stuff. For example, the Klingon courtroom, a massive set even with the forced perspective, cost a LOT. The bridge was re-re-redesigned, the conference/dining room was brand new, the kitchen, Sickbay, bunkrooms, tons of new stuff for pretty much one-off shots. It was an expensive picture to make.

[Dakar V]

The conference dining room looked like the observation lounge.

But don't forget the prison or Starfleet Command.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

the conference/dining room was brand new

Uh ya... guess who's coming to dinner.



Oh and the Federation presidents office was 10 forward.

[Oneota]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Uh ya... guess who's coming to dinner.

What's funny is that the lounge had those sweet models of all the previous ships for most of the show...until they used the set for Star Trek VI and someone broke one of them while they were re-dressing it. That's why it looks like that in the picture above. D'oh!

[Eug]

Heh. JJ Abrahms must really have a thing for lens flares. I was watching Fringe and the episode had the same lens flare as Star Trek.

P.S. This episode of Fringe had future Spock in it.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Yet strangely they still used half the sets from TNG and re-dressed them.

Hey Shat only said that the "catering budget for Undiscovered Country was bigger than the budget for all of TOS." What he didn't mention is that the catering budget for Undiscovered Country was also bigger than the budget for Undiscovered Country.

[SpaceMonkey]

The man does pack on the poundage.

[- - e r i k - -]

The lens flare was approaching the visual style of R&B videos at some points, I'll give you that.

[Eug]

I couldn't find it but where in the world has Star Trek not been released yet?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I couldn't find it but where in the world has Star Trek not been released yet?

According to IMDB, the only places remaining right now are Japan and Hong Kong.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Eug 

2) Nero still seemed 1 dimensional, and the movie simply didn't engage me as much as I hoped. And, the plot still has as many (black) holes as ever, but I didn't care so much this time.

3) The score really is disappointing. A second listen didn't make it any better. It's not as immersive or dramatic as the scores of previous movies. It seemed much more action-adventure-melodramatic, like I should be watching a sequel of The Mummy or something. I did like the planet Vulcan sequences though. It had a bit of a pseudo-Chinese tinge to it that seemed to fit reasonably well with the scenes. Go to about the 2:30 mark

Just wanted to say you hit a few of my complaints here.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I liked most of the music the beginning with the Kevlin was great. The spock scenes always used the same music though which sounded very crouching tiger. I liked it, just overused.

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I couldn't find it but where in the world has Star Trek not been released yet?

Amazingly enough, it opened up today here in Sint Maarten. Gonna go see it tonight. Usually takes a few weeks at minimum for movies to get down here.

[olePigeon]

I kept expecting the movie to turn into a Mountain Dew commercial.

[goMac]

The music bothered me in some places, especially the title sequence.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Something else I don't understand. Nero came out the blackhole 25 years ago but spock only came out 23+ years later and Nero was there just at the right time to great him. Huh?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Something else I don't understand. Nero came out the blackhole 25 years ago but spock only came out 23+ years later and Nero was there just at the right time to great him. Huh?

He was waiting for him (after getting away from the Kingons* just in time).

You'd figure he'd get bored after a few weeks, and just assume he'd been destroyed.

*Kingon prisons are very scary places:

[ThinkInsane]

I was at the mall today and decided to see it again. I still think it's a fun movie, but that whole lens flare thing is beyond annoying and borders on obnoxious.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane 

I was at the mall today and decided to see it again. I still think it's a fun movie, but that whole lens flare thing is beyond annoying and borders on obnoxious.

Oh god I loved it. Gave it such a unique look and drowned out the typical blue dim spaceship lighting.

[ghporter]

I thought the flare was noticeable but not obnoxious. It went with the shooting style they were using, with lots of hand-held shots. Like in Firefly and Serenity. Oh yeah, and BSG too. And both BSG's production team and J. J. Abrams' team chose that style almost certainly because of how Joss made Firefly look so "immediate" and real.

[ThinkInsane]

I just thought it was way over done and I found it distracting.

[Dakar V]

It was unquestionably overdone.

[mrtew]

I didn't notice them until I just went back and watched the trailers.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

It was unquestionably overdone.

Well, apparently people are questioning it, but I'm not going to pretend to understand them.

[zipperzap]

Outstanding!

[Eriamjh]

Just saw it. It was the first Trek action flik ever.

I enjoyed it.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I thought the flare was noticeable but not obnoxious. It went with the shooting style they were using, with lots of hand-held shots. Like in Firefly and Serenity. Oh yeah, and BSG too. And both BSG's production team and J. J. Abrams' team chose that style almost certainly because of how Joss made Firefly look so "immediate" and real.

The hand-held technique works nicely. Obscuring the whole screen with lens flares does not.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

The hand-held technique works nicely. Obscuring the whole screen with lens flares does not.

The lens flare was actually what made Nero so angry. Wouldn't you hate to be stuck in a time where there's this crazy lens flare all the time?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Eug 

*Kingon prisons are very scary places:

That guy's WEARING SHOES ON TATAMI!?

GTFO!

[Eriamjh]

Oh yeah. Where the heck is there a giant gorge in Iowa?

The lens flares were WAY overdone. Even Abrahms admits he went overboard.

I know there are certain shots where even I watch and think, “Oh that’s ridiculous, that was too many.” But I love the idea that the future was so bright it couldn’t be contained in the frame.

And did anyone notice George Takei is narrating the Kingon site?

[subego]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

The lens flares were WAY overdone. Even Abrahms admits he went overboard.

This clip where they added lens flare to TOS is hilarious.

This is funny too:

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

Oh yeah. Where the heck is there a giant gorge in Iowa?

Maybe it was made during the Xinda attack on Earth?
YouTube - Xindi Attack Earth

[Eriamjh]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Maybe it was made during the Xinda attack on Earth?
YouTube - Xindi Attack Earth

Reasonable. But the sides looked like they were dug by machines. They could have had a sign like the "Xindi Gorge" or something. I would have inferred the rest.

[goMac]

They could be mining for the materials to actually build the ships nearby.